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<andreasdr[m]>
OscarL: Nice.
<andreasdr[m]>
Moin
<netpositive>
morning
<andreasdr[m]>
Good morning netpostive
<netpositive>
it's not so good so far
<netpositive>
sound in haiku isn't working in qemu ;(
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<andreasdr[m]>
:(
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<netpositive>
tried to replace ac97 with hda, blacklist the hda driver, install the oss package but no succes
<netpositive>
s
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<nephele>
hmm, tried to install haiku on an older computer now, the installer failed to overwrite grub2... even after explicitly using 'write boot sector' menu option
<nephele>
I had to explicitly use writembr, maybe that is a bug :g
<phschafft>
I think I had a similar problem earlier this year.but I'm really not sure. plus it might be me being to stupid.
<nephele>
i think this may be because i did not create a partition table but reused the old one
<ermo[m]>
<nephele> "I had to explicitly use writembr..." <- I think I may actually have hit that bug too a while back.
<ermo[m]>
(since it's been a while since I installed my haiku daily build box)
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<PulkoMandy>
That's not a bug, the installer never touches the mbr, only the partition you install to
<PulkoMandy>
Only Linux insists in having a nonstandard thing (grub) in the mbr, while all other OS use slightly different but compatible code
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<x512[m]>
Yes, Linux hijack whole PC with its GRUB so whole system become unbootable after deleting Linux partition.
<matt3>
lilo was better ...
<matt3>
lilo.conf
<x512[m]>
Haiku provide nice MBR boot manager that fit to MBR block and do not depend on installed Haiku.
<x512[m]>
Also no configs.
<matt3>
install lilo in /hda2 ... windows /hda1 ... beosboot /hda
<matt3>
swap /dev/hda3 ... haiku /dev/hda4
<matt3>
with efi => terrible ...
<x512[m]>
Installing EFI is simple: copy boot loader to /efi/boot/bootx64.efi.
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<matt3>
512 MB ram ...
<matt3>
ramses and romses :D
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<Begasus>
there has been some discussion at haikuports about it
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<Begasus>
if there is no objection on enabling the recipes that are currently disabled for buildmaster, and space isn't an issue anymore as I mentioned on my last reply, maybe it's time to release this to the public?
<PulkoMandy>
Would be nice, yes
<jmairboeck>
I am okay with that
<jmairboeck>
and the dependant recipes as well (dblatex and lilypond)
<Begasus>
I doubt there will be a "huge" interest atm, so I don't think it would affect downloads from the depot a lot atm
<Begasus>
kallisti5[m], around also?
<jmairboeck>
there were multiple people showing some interest in it
<Begasus>
yeah, but once build on buildmaster it would only mean one download for required packages jmairboeck
<Begasus>
don't think it will update that much there :)
<waddlesplash>
I think we're still trying to avoid having such huge packages
<waddlesplash>
bandwidth and storage isn't free, and CTAN already exists, really...
<Begasus>
hence my question here waddlesplash
<jmairboeck>
that's why I compared it with python and pip in my last comment in the issue
<waddlesplash>
yeah, and we don't package all of pypi, just what we need
<PulkoMandy>
It seems only waddlesplash is trying to avoid 4GB of data here
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<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: and who knows how much bandwidth when people download it
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<PulkoMandy>
Also, I think no one answered me, is the texlive package split in smaller ones now?
<Begasus>
not pushing anything here jmairboeck but could you look into that? and if it's possible at all?
<Begasus>
yes PulkoMandy
<PulkoMandy>
If it's still one huge 4GB package,tthat would be annoying, but it's not the case anymore
<jmairboeck>
are "any" arch packages already correctly deduplicated?
<waddlesplash>
jmairboeck: no.
<waddlesplash>
they are not
<Begasus>
the core package is one, the other packages are splitt up
<PulkoMandy>
So it will not result in that much downloads then, people will just get the subsets they need
<jmairboeck>
maybe that should be fixed before
<Begasus>
yeah, but we should talk about how we should procede
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<jmairboeck>
i.e. they should be only built once and reused for all architectures
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<Begasus>
Not sure if it's possible to disable SOURCE_PACKAGES?
<waddlesplash>
yes
<jmairboeck>
that is already the case
<jmairboeck>
at least the official source packages
<waddlesplash>
can we package just xetex and ctan, somehow?
<waddlesplash>
and not "texlive" at all?
<Begasus>
OK, so that's not an issue on storage
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<Begasus>
not familiar with xetex so don't know there
<jmairboeck>
xetex specifically currently requires all the texlive_lang* packages because it wants all the formats
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<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash: IIRC it's around 4GB total for all of Texlive, this is not that large by today standards really, I don't understand why we wouldn't want that
<jmairboeck>
that would also be something that should be fixed
<PulkoMandy>
if it was hundred of gigabytes, maybe, but for 4GB I really don't see a problem
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<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: times 2 for each arch
<waddlesplash>
and then more copies when we finally add arm64 or riscv or whatever
<jmairboeck>
yes, most Linux distributions also package all of texlive
<waddlesplash>
tbh I think the only reason we don't have riscv buildmaster yet is because we haven't found a way to set it up
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<PulkoMandy>
yes, we should solve the "any" deduplication, but still, that's maybe 20GB or so, I don't see how this can be such a big problem?
<Begasus>
+1 there PulkoMandy
<Begasus>
I also thought that "any" would only need one build for "any" arch
<BrunoSpr>
texlive_core Are the languages files large too? Like in Libre Office?
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<Begasus>
Maybe mmlr and kallisti5[m] (I think they are mostly responsible for hosting) should be included are contacted about this?
<Begasus>
core is on the basics BrunoSpr , but not really usuable without the subpackages
<jmairboeck>
I am still not really an expert on texlive and how it works internally, so I don't really know where to look to allow manual installations from CTAN.
<jmairboeck>
but that would be the ideal solution
<Begasus>
Maybe someone will step on on this jmairboeck , but for now it would be nice (imho) to have the packages available for install
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<jmairboeck>
I'll be away for a while, cu later
<Begasus>
It would also mean (as you mentioned) to declare dependencies on the subpackages required (also for texstudio)
<BrunoSpr>
Me too am: not an expert on texlive and how it works internally but my son who is studiying math and physics uses it alot... so I will ask him to check if he is arround...
<BrunoSpr>
I just see the potential of having a well out of the box working solution for students!
<PulkoMandy>
I'm not convinced CTAN is great. It's nice to have all things managed by the same package manager, and having dedicated managers for each language results in a lot of confusion, especially if you work with a thing that requires several languages (and TeX/LaTeX is likely to be used together with other languages for any IDE or tool)
<Begasus>
FWIW, I just checked the installed packages on 32bit, less then 600MiB installed to have a working version here
<Begasus>
22 packages installed
<Begasus>
Checked with texstudio and geany
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<rennj>
pkgsrc!
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus 600MiB looks resonable ok. Not sure if all important packages are in there, though. A TeX profi might tell!
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus: I can only try to open some projects from my son given to me!
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<BrunoSpr>
Begasus: The PDF compiler seems to be important to me... Sorry if I cannot help alot
<Begasus>
NP BrunoSpr any tips on getting this to work is welcome
<Begasus>
Maybe you could email me one of the problematic tex file from your son so I can check this out here?
<Begasus>
Any way, just wanted to drop my 2 cents here
<Begasus>
heading out for some food, will be back tomorrow
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<BrunoSpr>
OH. Twitter runs quite well on Web+ now... What a nice surprise.. could be enhenched but it is usable!
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus: @begasus I will send you some files...
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<jmairboeck>
I am back now, if anyone needs me.
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<nephele>
is there something special about iso9660 for usb sticks? I've burned kde neon to one and was now trying to get exfat/fat32 on it from haiku again, but drivesetup refuses completely to format or initialize it, and dd times out when asked to write zeros to it
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<dpirate>
https://files.metalpunks.info/photos/IMG_20221021_204319848.jpg ThinkPad E545 A8-5550M/8Gb/SSD/Realtek 8818EE: Almost everything works including sound and wifi. Radeon 8XXX APU video card has white and then black screen on boot problem which can be worked around with failsafe video in the bootloader and the trackpad has some problems. This is the latest nightly.
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<BrunoSpr>
dpirate nice to hear
<dpirate>
Playing with it, no crashes so far. It's getting there.
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<andreasdr[m]>
Nice
<_Dario_>
sidenote: nice bookshelf, dpirate :)
<dpirate>
IKEA power
<_Dario_>
:D
<dpirate>
Is there a way to always load the failsafe video driver?
<dpirate>
so I don't need to do the space bar dance everytime at boot
<jessicah>
it generates a fetch_packages script as well, to download dependencies and extract into the sysroot, requires `jq`
<jessicah>
I need to update the README
* Anarchos
greets jessicah
<jessicah>
hihi :)
<ScottD>
jessicah nice! Any idea what I need to do to be compatible with BeOS as well?
<jessicah>
I've used this for rust and ghc, etc.
<jessicah>
BeOS? no idea, I'd assume you just target x86_gcc2?
<jessicah>
but I think Haiku is slowly losing BeOS compat these days, so things may not entirely work when copied onto BeOS?
<ScottD>
That was my guess as well, but I really don't know much about BeOS. Or Haiku for that matter. :-( Really impressed with what I've seen so far!
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<ScottD>
I know I'll need a separate 64 bit build for Haiku. That's fine.
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, what are you waiting for to try it?
<jessicah>
not sure why anyone these days would want to target running on actual BeOS
<jessicah>
it's usually the other way around, running BeOS binaries on Haiku
<ScottD>
jessicah because JoeyLib targets all kinds of old retro stuff. The more the merrier!
<jessicah>
well, other than some crazy people... seen the odd blogpost about that :p
<bjorkintosh>
is it even possible to run beos anywhere these days?
<jessicah>
I think vmware player can run it
<ScottD>
bjorkintosh I'm not anymore! Have it in a VM and plan to put it on actual hardware soon.
<ScottD>
I've not managed to run it yet. It just blows up the VM.
<Anarchos>
jessicah i just got hands back on my original BeOS CDs :)
<jessicah>
I have an original BeOS CD here
<andreasdr[m]>
Me too! Good morning.
<ScottD>
You're all making me jealous.
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, do you have old hardware laying around?
<ScottD>
Tons.
<jessicah>
ScottD: targeting BeOS specifically, it might be best to compile/link against actual BeOS headers and libraries... you could probably just replace those in the generated sysroot
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, then you have everything you need.
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<ScottD>
Hopefully I can manage that... Need to get BeOS to actually run first so I can get to those files!
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<bjorkintosh>
why? What do you need BeOS in particular for, ScottD?
<jessicah>
bochs might be an option if you're having issues, as that emulated pretty old hardware?
<jessicah>
I dunno what the state of bochs these days is like
<jessicah>
he's supporting some retro cross-platform lib
<ScottD>
bjorkintosh same reason I want Windows 3.11, OS/2, etc. JoeyLib for all!
<ScottD>
Main target for JoeyLib is the Apple IIgs. Then anything else that can run it. :-)
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, will you also try Oberon and Plan 9 and Inferno?
<jessicah>
ScottD: anyway, that's about all the advice I have for trying to target BeOS itself, good luck!
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<ScottD>
jessicah I appreciate it!
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, is Joeylib your pet?
<ScottD>
"binutils and gcc for cross compilation have been built successfully!" w00t!
<ScottD>
bjorkintosh one of my projects, yes. Also working on games to go with it.
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<CompanionCube>
other retro ideas: a/ux? various proprietary unices?
<bjorkintosh>
so ScottD for retro I don't see Plan9.
<bjorkintosh>
(future retro, really)
<ScottD>
Did anyone actually run that? I mean, I installed it once. But that was it.
<bjorkintosh>
Yes. You did, ScottD.
<bjorkintosh>
you run it after you installed it.
<ScottD>
lol
<bjorkintosh>
It counts.
<CompanionCube>
bjorkintosh: wouldn't the problem with oberon being the whole focus on the oberon language which probably doesn't go well with random 3rd party libraries
<bjorkintosh>
unless you're not anyone.
<bjorkintosh>
CompanionCube, you're absolutely right. it's a bit too insular.
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<Anarchos>
CompanionCube it reminds me i could never get into how lisp works/is compiled …
<bjorkintosh>
initially I thought ScottD was just playing with random OSes.
<CompanionCube>
(symbolics genera would be another example, but that actually has a C compiler for it probably unlike oberon)
<bjorkintosh>
Didn't realize he was trying to port JoeyLib
<bjorkintosh>
that's why I mentioned it.
<bjorkintosh>
oberon has oberon and it runs on oberon.
<ScottD>
The goal of JoeyLib is to let people easily build games for retro machines in C. If your target needs ugly assembly or weird voodoo to be performant, we handle that.
<CompanionCube>
ooh, what about RISCOS?
<ScottD>
I don't know enough about it. But it's a neat OS!
<bjorkintosh>
so I don't understand, is joeylib a VM?
<ScottD>
Yeah, RISCOS targets are more than capable enough to handle this. Adding to list. :-)
<ScottD>
bjorkintosh it's a C library. Kind of like SDL.
<CompanionCube>
bonus: you can run riscos on modern hardware like the rpi
<ScottD>
Exactly.
<bjorkintosh>
ScottD, ah I get it.
<ScottD>
We're trying to nail down the JoeyLib API at the moment and that will make it a lot easier to start porting to other targets. Right now every time we change something I have to update everything!
<CompanionCube>
iirc the amiga was particularly noted for its graphics support for if that's not already on that list that's an idea
<ScottD>
We have a native IIgs backend that is the primary target (the IIgs is the slowest of everything so far) and both SDL2 and SDL12 backends.
<ScottD>
CompanionCube Amiga and ST were among the first targets we wanted. Just not found the right expertise. And I haven't had time to try myself. I did do the research into feature support. JoeyLib uses the IIgs's weird color system and both those machines should be able to fake it.
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<ScottD>
(The GS has 16 palettes of 16 colors each from a choice of 4096. Each of the 16 palettes can be assigned to any of the 200 horizontal scan lines. So a maximum of 256 colors at once, in a very limited arrangement.)
<ScottD>
With 32 colors and the copper, the Amiga is pretty easy. The ST has an interrupt timer that should allow us to do the same, but in a more limited color space.
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* Anarchos
finds it very cool to create a drag and drop image with a 50% background
* Anarchos
finds it very cool to create a drag and drop image with a 50% background transparent, based on system colors
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