ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<orowith2os> yeah, Cinnamon currently has no plans to support Wayland, on account of not having enough developers and NVIDIA being... annoying
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<kchibisov> Is it correct that diff between timestamps is in milliseconds (I know it says it's in milliseconds granularity)?
<kchibisov> So for example if I diff 2 wl_pointer.button timestamps I get a time in milliseconds between them.
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<emersion> yeah i think so
<kennylevinsen> wl_pointer.button specifically says millisecond timestamp
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<luks2[m]> anybody have any experience getting tor browser to work with wayland? following the guide on the tor browser when i run $ ./start-tor-browser.desktop --verbose ; I get the following:... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/VMTXXapECdWvKVPRVFMwYMgI>)
<kchibisov> kennylevinsen: I just think that I'm getting weird logs from the user. Like their libipunt debug events deltas are around 200-300ms, then the wayland log has seconds between some events. Maybe they just took them separatelly...
<kchibisov> And the lowest amount in wayland log is 370ms, while in libinput it was 150ms.
<kchibisov> Though, I have to explicitly go through the all events and find ms delta, because most were in seconds, so I got confused.
<emersion> what do you mean by "most are in seconds"?
<emersion> AFAIK everything is ms
<kchibisov> I mean, delta.
<kchibisov> Like if you take 2 button timestamps you get 10000.
<psykose> luks2[m]: your gtk3 on gentoo is compiled without x11 support but the prebuilt binary links a symbol from that
<kchibisov> So I though, maybe it was micros or something by accedent...
<luks2[m]> psykose: so gtk3 needs to have the X use flag for tor browser to work?
<kchibisov> Maybe their touchpad is just slow, but it's weird that in libinput log they have delta around 200ms and then in wayland logs they have lowest possible 380ms.
<kchibisov> it's like gnome added 200ms latency for them.
<psykose> luks2[m]: i already said that, yes
<luks2[m]> didn't even have gtk installed
<pH5> daniels: My understanding is that a transfer-write-before-shader-read image memory barrier should be enough to take care of that.
<pH5> daniels: I'll have a look at converting ivi-shell.
<daniels> pH5: nice, thankyou £
<luks2[m]> i recompiled gtk with the X useflag and now this is what happens... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/hrEvFVTVhzWxfziVDWPCADzo>)
<pq> Ermine, no, you can ask to participate, but the public invite emails don't contain the direct link to the meeting to avoid flooding the call.
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<pq> that said, I wonder if the concern of too many people is founded - maybe they should try a couple times
<pq> kchibisov, you are aware that WAYLAND_DEBUG protocol dumps use CLOCK_REALTIME and input timestamps are generally CLOCK_MONOTONIC, right?
<kchibisov> pq: I was used timestamps for the button event.
<kchibisov> Not whatever wayland debug writes.
<kchibisov> I'd expecet button timestamps to be MONOTONIC.
<kchibisov> wl_pointer@28.button(440638, 228169719, 272, 1)
<kchibisov> I've used ^
<pq> protocol dumps use microseconds, and IIRC the basic input events use millisecond, but then there is the input-timestamps extension offering nanosecond ganularity
<kchibisov> Though, in my case the diff matched the wayland debug, which I found weird.
<kchibisov> Since I've expected the timestamp to be from libinput or something.
<pq> input event timestamps should come from the kernel directly with the events, which means either the kernel stamps them or they come from the input hardware
<pq> of course, I don't know what Mutter does
<kchibisov> I just feel like the user gave me logs from different stuff. Because libinput was twice as fast in their logs.
<pq> yeah, who knows
<kchibisov> And mutter timestamps matched wayland ones for whatever reason.
<kchibisov> diff*
<pq> that is odd
<pq> oh diff
<pq> sure
<pq> The protocol dump timestamps are taken when the message is printed, not when it's sent/received or crosses socket. If the timestamp diff matches the input event timestamp diff, that's a good thing.
<pq> it means delivery latency is constant
<kchibisov> It could be that someone took a time right when sending event though.
<pq> the kernel might do that, or mutter might do that, yeah
<kchibisov> While it's good for consistency, the user can't reach 400ms to trigger double clicks.
<pq> but if all delivery is as fast as it should, you can't tell who stamped it
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<kchibisov> Since in libinput they have 200ms diffs, but on button events they have 380ms.
<pq> I thought you said the diffs match
<kchibisov> I've said that wayland debug diffs matched button timestamps diffs.
<kchibisov> But libinput diffs were twice lower.
<pq> interesting
<kchibisov> from libinput debug-events.
<pq> extremely heavy mutter extensions in use?
<kchibisov> I'm not sure, I could ask them :p
<kchibisov> But only when they use touchpad.
<kchibisov> With mouse they don't have such issue.
<pq> huh
<kchibisov> I've removed `HOLD_END`, though, maybe button press with touchpad registered on end...
<kchibisov> But the diff between hold begin and end usually 20ms.
<kchibisov> So it doesn't matter, it's still way less that 370ms.
<pq> I guess it kinda needs to, to make the difference between a tap and another gesture, because pointer protocol has no cancel event, does it?
<pq> if other gestures are possible
<kchibisov> Yeah, it should debounce of some sort.
<kchibisov> Though, If I accound end, it'll be 240ms avg.
<pq> kchibisov, did you notice that wayland log ha multiple different wl_pointer objects?
<pq> *has
<kchibisov> I know.
<kchibisov> That's expected.
<kchibisov> I've computed only based on a pointer which was actually used by logic that done double clicks.
<pq> multiple wl_seats?
<kchibisov> It's more like we have a clipboard separatelly running.
<kchibisov> on its own thread.
<pq> who is "we"?
<kchibisov> we -> alacritty.
<pq> so they each bind to a different wl_seat global?
<kchibisov> yes, they should.
<pq> really? Mutter exposes multiple wl_seats?
<kchibisov> Well, I guess we just create miltiple objects.
<pq> I mean literally different globals, not just bind twice the same global.
<kchibisov> No, we bind twice the same global.
<pq> in that case the wayland log makes no sense to me
<kchibisov> I could give you the log I have on sway.
<kchibisov> Just from startup.
<pq> oh wait, threads
<kchibisov> threads.
<pq> and printing the dispatching, this is not the wire sequence, yes
<pq> ok
<pq> no thanks, I shouldn't be looking at this really
<kchibisov> yeah, I don't want to look either. I'll plumb the input timestamps to all calculations and call it a day.
<pq> I don't seem to have anything to add here
<kchibisov> I know for sure that once we had 300ms they weren't able to trigger double click at all.
<kchibisov> And 400ms was taken from gtk4, which bumped it from 250ms since gtk2.
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<pq> That "Wayland device tree" proposal feels very much non-Wayland to me.
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<jadahl> pq: +1
<jadahl> there are also some inaccuracies in the motivation for needing it
<pq> I don't think I can afford to write a rebuttal, though.
<jadahl> I didn't have the strength last night, maybe later
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<kennylevinsen> I am not sure if there is a real UX reason to differentiate between e.g. touchpad and mouse in the first place. Why should I not be able to flick with my mouse? :/
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<kennylevinsen> Handling touchpad gestures is a real need for some use-cases (e.g., handwriting CJK input), but that's separate
<pq> yes
<wlb> weston Issue #777 opened by sdikshit786 (sdikshit786) [BUG]Unable to differentiate connectors by their name when displays are identical https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/issues/777
<jadahl> yea, abs touchpad mode is a different beast. we've talked about it forever, but there is still no remotely usable CJK handwriting input method to hook it into
<kchibisov> jadahl: where does mutter get timestamps from for input events?
<jadahl> kchibisov: from libinput
<kchibisov> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<kchibisov> maybe libinput log I had is weird then.
<jadahl> maybe because libinput timestamps are us, while the wayland ones ar ms?
<kchibisov> They print time in seconds, I mean libinput debug-events.
<jadahl> aha
<kchibisov> And tell them in 1.1s
<jadahl> iirc the only time we dream up our own timestamps from the monotonic clock is for fake input events e.g. from vnc/rdp
<kchibisov> It just doesn't make sense that mutter timestamps diffs were ~2x of libinput.
<jadahl> only for touchpads?
<kchibisov> from their words.
<jadahl> kchibisov: could it be that libinput debug-events show timestamps relative to the time it started, and the debug shows them relative to the monotonic clock?
<kchibisov> But I compare the diff.
<kchibisov> So it doesn't matter.
<jadahl> diff between what?
<kchibisov> The issue is that delta between button presses and delta between GESTURE_HOLD_END is 2x difference.
<kchibisov> I'd ask them for interleaved log from both wayland and libinput though.
<jadahl> for gestures, there are magic stuff going on, but the timestamp are directly from libinput
<kchibisov> Well, they have gestures due to tap to click.
<jadahl> it's all from libinput_event_gesture_get_time_usec() and similar ones
<kchibisov> I know that on sway I have the deltas matching on my hardware.
<kchibisov> I'll direct the log to mutter bug tracker if it expose something strange, because the user started from the mutter bug tracker and then came to me.
<kchibisov> And then maybe it'll go to libinput or kernel, because I can't believe that they can't click under 400ms.
<jadahl> kchibisov: random thought, could it be difference in tap-to-click settings?
<kchibisov> Does libinput/gnome even allows them to be changed somehow?
<kchibisov> I thought it's just a bool?
<jadahl> yes, you can enable/disable tap-to-click
<jadahl> its a libinput device setting
<kchibisov> I know, but what difference are you talking about?
<jadahl> to get similar enough device events, you need to run libinput debug-events with matching configuration
<jadahl> there are timeouts relevant for tap-ta-click IIRC
<kchibisov> Hm, that's true, I guess.
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<wlb> wayland Issue #395 opened by Naim Chowdhury (NaimChowdhury) xwayland applications blurry and qt renders incorrectly https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/395
<wlb> wayland Issue #395 closed \o/ (xwayland applications blurry and qt renders incorrectly https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/395)
<wlb> wayland Issue #396 opened by Naim Chowdhury (NaimChowdhury) Computer hard crashes when TV goes to sleep https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/396
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<wlb> wayland Issue #396 closed \o/ (Computer hard crashes when TV goes to sleep https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/issues/396)
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<wlb> weston Merge request !1316 opened by Philipp Zabel (pH5) hmi-controller: Fix hmi_controller_destroy() when called from hmi_controller_create() https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1316
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<rahl> I'm using the linked script to run a shell with a secondary user, retaining gui access https://termbin.com/86xi
<rahl> But when the second user runs e.g. `wl-copy` I get "Failed to connect to wayland server"
<rahl> I figured it would be a permissions issue, on the /run/usr/1000 directory; tried giving group access to it, but no luck
<rahl> running dwl on artix, attempting only wayland but almost immediately had to set up xwayland as well
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<wlb> weston Merge request !1317 opened by Philipp Zabel (pH5) ivi-shell: Automatically schedule view repaints on property changes https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/-/merge_requests/1317
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