ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | https://asahilinux.org/2022/03/asahi-linux-alpha-release/ | General project discussion | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
<jannau> marcan: the used color format is annotated as wide gammut so the result seems to be expected. I wonder how iboot configures the boot framebuffer
<jannau> err, that was intended for #asahi-dev
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<chadmed> joske: acking your message from a couple days ago (my time). cant really do much about it atm as ive started a new job two weeks before christmas so im a bit busy
<chadmed> but ill get around to looking into it again soon
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<joske> chadmed: yes, I had the same again yesterday
<joske> no worries, work comes first
<joske> I just lost my job, so I have a bit of time ;-). Any hints on what I could try?
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* povik just finished $longstanding_overdue_task
<povik> so i should have more time too
<sven> just one more week of $work until ny vacation time starts here…
<joske> looking forward to what you two will produce then :-)
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<bcrumb> so
<bcrumb> i noticed if using the apparmor.d aur repo that systemd backlight gets blocked when trying to read max_brightness
<bcrumb> just as a heads up, i will try to pr in a fix on their repo if i manage to do it here
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<bcrumb> and also i think that changing display brightness does not properly work
<bcrumb> it's throwing no DENIED's when trying it manually though
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<DexterHaxxor> When Asahi starts supporting Vulkan, is there any possibility that Apple won't like that? I mean, as far as I can tell, Vulkan is competition for them (for some reason).
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<j`ey> DexterHaxxor: nah because noone is going to support metal on linux!
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<DexterHaxxor> sure, but gamers will then install Asahi to get better performance in games and Apple will be mad
<Puto> why would they
<Puto> you already bought their hardware
<Puto> that’s what they make the most money from
<DexterHaxxor> i think they would support Vulkan themselves if they thought it would make them money
<DexterHaxxor> is there a chance they will try to hinder the GPUs on Linux somehow?
<Puto> no
<Puto> apple have literally zero history of locking down mac hardware to other OSes
<Puto> they don’t actually lose any money from you installing linux on a mac
<Puto> they don’t sell macOS, they sell computers with “can run macOS” as a selling feature
<ChaosPrincess> there are some unrealized gains from potentially not buying space in icloud or using mac app store.
<handlerug> not sure if this is an issue with asahi drivers, but screencopy in wlroots-based compositors takes like 5 seconds
<handlerug> the protocol is here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots/-/blob/master/protocol/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1.xml, it's used for screenshots with grim and for recording with wf-recorder
<ChaosPrincess> but since you can bypass mac app store and apple tax on macos anyway, i dont think they care much
<Puto> ^
<Puto> macos isn’t a walled garden, unlike iOS
<Puto> so that’s kind of irrelevant
<DexterHaxxor> but they loose the support of developers, because then developers will just say "install Linux to run X" and people will be less interested in buying a Mac just to put Linux on it
<ChaosPrincess> lolnope
<Puto> developers would never say “just install linux” on anything
<Puto> that’s not how the world works
<ChaosPrincess> if you think you as a developer can have linux as a prerequisite of your commercial software, you should reconsider
<DexterHaxxor> i can see game developers not wanting to support macOS
<ChaosPrincess> yea, and they will support only winders
<Puto> yes. but those also wouldn’t want to support linux either.
<Puto> there’s more games on macOS than on linux lol
<ChaosPrincess> cause why cater to a fraction of a fraction, when you can support one platform
<DexterHaxxor> Linux PC gaming is actually better nowadays
<Puto> mostly because of proton. which will never perform well on apple silicon
<Puto> because it’d be running under x86 emulation
<ChaosPrincess> DexterHaxxor: linux gaming is only better if you are a nerd who can deal with linux jank
<ChaosPrincess> there is a good reasons consoles exist
<ChaosPrincess> people just want to put the disk in and play
<ChaosPrincess> and not deal with everything else
<Puto> also, nobody buys a mac to play games
<Puto> seriously.
<DexterHaxxor> i am a nerd and gaming on linux has been pretty painless for me
<ChaosPrincess> correct
<ChaosPrincess> now imagine you are a 40-something trying to buy forkknife for your kid
<DexterHaxxor> so you're saying that i shouldn't worry about M1 Macs becoming a walled garden in the future?
<ChaosPrincess> ofc not
<Puto> I think that if they were going to make macs walled gardens, they’d have done it with the transition
<ChaosPrincess> apple made choices that show that they dont care about what happens here
<Puto> not later.
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<DexterHaxxor> now the question is: will Apple try to fight MoltenVK on iOS?
<ChaosPrincess> no
<Puto> on iOS, it’s possible. iOS *is* a walled garden
<DexterHaxxor> they really hate Vulkan for some reason
<ChaosPrincess> they want to help devs, not make life harder
<Puto> but it’s unlikely, since the games would still have to end up on the app store
<Puto> so they’d make money regardless
<ChaosPrincess> so, if the dev can wrap their game in moltenvk and throw it on app store, its ok
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<Puto> they don’t make money from metal specifically
<DexterHaxxor> well then why does Metal exist?
<Puto> they made metal to make game development on iOS and Mac easier so they can make money
<ChaosPrincess> metal exists to replace opengl
<Puto> it’s not like metal has a licensing fee or anything
<Puto> it’s an api.
<DexterHaxxor> did metal or vulkan come first, i forgot
<ChaosPrincess> metal
<Puto> metal came first
<DexterHaxxor> oh that explains it, i thought it was the opposite
<Puto> apple don’t usually reinvent stuff unnecessarily, but if it doesn’t exist, they will invent it and stick to it even if another option shows up later
<DexterHaxxor> apple likes to invent their own things instead of coordinating with everyone else and then it takes them ages to adopt the standard option
<Puto> yeah, but if the standard version already existed then they will usually just use that instead of reinventing the wheel
<DexterHaxxor> maybe in 2025 we'll have native support for Vulkan on macOS
<Puto> wouldn’t count on it
<DexterHaxxor> 2030
<Puto> maybe.
<Puto> or maybe moltenvk will become good enough that it won’t matter
<DexterHaxxor> i mean, macOS 13 just introduced webp
<ChaosPrincess> webp is actually because of heic
<DexterHaxxor> wait not webp
<ChaosPrincess> and royalties from that
<ChaosPrincess> vp9? same story, but s/heic/hevc/
<DexterHaxxor> .avif
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<DexterHaxxor> just two years behind google chrome
<ChaosPrincess> similar -ish story, apple wants money for heic
<ChaosPrincess> this one is due to them being 'evil'
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<DexterHaxxor> oh and while we're at it, where did the rumours originate that Apple would close down the M1 Macs?
<j`ey> 'haters' :P
<ChaosPrincess> because arm transition seemed like a logical point to do that, and ipad and mac os design kinda converges
<ChaosPrincess> + the other os boot story was very unclear at the start
<ChaosPrincess> someone explicitly asked 'can we run linux' on one of the presentation and the and the answer was 'sure, in a vm', which didnt inspire confidence
<DexterHaxxor> i don't know how locking down macs could be considered logical at any point
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<DexterHaxxor> the Mac user base is way more "hardcore" than the iOS user base and i think people on Mac wouldn't like the kind of restrictions that Apple places on iOS
<ChaosPrincess> Thats why they didnt do it
<ChaosPrincess> but people were afraid at one point
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<DexterHaxxor> does Asahi mess up your speakers still or was that fixed
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<j`ey> DexterHaxxor: they're still disabled
<DexterHaxxor> ah
<j`ey> but headphone jack works
<DexterHaxxor> my machine still has one
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