<drmadison>
right now all my use is in a VM but I'd love to fire it up on a real small system I can put on my desk next to my main PC
<drmadison>
my REAL dream would be for the ARM port to get there and have a stable Raspberry Pi 400 port haha but 1 thing at a time
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<mbrumbelow>
drmadison: I have 4 different NUC's and I am trying to get Haiku running on all of them.It would be cool to have a NUC pre-bundled with Haiku.
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<drmadison>
or not even prebundled but it'd be great to have like, buy model X and we've ensured all of its hardware is supported so it's not a giant guessing game
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<AlwaysLivid>
trying to pull the bfsresize branch and realizing i have no idea how to do this
<PrintableFreedom[m]>
Lmao
<AlwaysLivid>
i mean, i am literally doing
<AlwaysLivid>
`git fetch origin bfsresize`
<AlwaysLivid>
but that's not enough because apparently that's not, like, a branch in the github sense, but something else???
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<ConditionBoy>
if i make changes to tracker, how do i view those changes?
<AlwaysLivid>
sorry for going afk, but you are supposed to receive a link after you push
<AlwaysLivid>
it should be up in review.haiku-os.org
<AlwaysLivid>
it takes a bit of time to push changes, so please wait for that to finish
<ConditionBoy>
running chnaged apps is pretty straightforward, but tracker isn't an app, per se
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<ConditionBoy>
well dang
<ConditionBoy>
review.haiku-os.org doesn't display in webpositive
<AlwaysLivid>
... alright, that's something that should be addressed in a bit, but how did you even register in the first place?
<ConditionBoy>
don't know how i'm supposed to add a key
<ConditionBoy>
balls...
<ConditionBoy>
AlwaysLivid: host os
<AlwaysLivid>
here's an idea: paste your public key on a paste site that will later delete it, access the paste on your host os and then add it
<ConditionBoy>
yeah, i guess lol
<ConditionBoy>
just a bit tedious
<ConditionBoy>
well, where there's a will, there's a way i suppose
<AlwaysLivid>
yeah, we do have some of that as far as inconveniences are concerned
<AlwaysLivid>
Otter Browser may work better
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<ConditionBoy>
i'm going to have to gifure out a way to migrate all my data to a new vm soon
<ConditionBoy>
i only gave haiku 9GB of space
<AlwaysLivid>
if you're using QEMU, you can increase the size and then expand the partition within the system, I think?
<ConditionBoy>
now i've done a bunch of stuff that i don't want to lose, and i need more space
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<AlwaysLivid>
you can also passthrough a USB device
<ConditionBoy>
good lord, i am a terrible typist
<AlwaysLivid>
no problem
<ConditionBoy>
yeah, i'll figure it out
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<AlwaysLivid>
you could passthrough a usb device, format it under BeFS and then copy over your files again
<AlwaysLivid>
or just copy the entire system
<AlwaysLivid>
but that may result in weird behavior
<AlwaysLivid>
either way, mess around and find out
<ConditionBoy>
can i also just say
<ConditionBoy>
i hate package managers
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<AlwaysLivid>
welcome back, _whitelogger!
<AlwaysLivid>
:D
<mmu_man>
as much as I like GNU/Linux and Debian, my T510 with an hdd can spend 20min or more on an upgrade, which is 18 too many
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<ConditionBoy>
woof, otter doesn't display review.haiku-os.org at all
<ConditionBoy>
at least webpositive displayed the header
<ConditionBoy>
brilliant
<ConditionBoy>
i don't envy browser devs their work; web dev is the worst
<ConditionBoy>
it is wrong in every imaginable way
<AlwaysLivid>
it is in our plans to eventually upstream the patches for webkit to the main webkit tree
<AlwaysLivid>
i think i'll do that once i deal with some IRL stuff and deal with a huge backlog of things to do in Haiku
<ConditionBoy>
mmu_man: the concept of package management is not itself bad, per se
<ConditionBoy>
at the os level, it is useful
<ConditionBoy>
but in userland, it is backwards
<AlwaysLivid>
how can that be worked on in your opinion?
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<ConditionBoy>
AlwaysLivid: are you talking to me?
<AlwaysLivid>
yeaq
<AlwaysLivid>
yeah
<ConditionBoy>
apps should be wholly self-contained directories given special treatment by the os
<ConditionBoy>
portable in exactly the same way that every other traditional file type is portable
<ConditionBoy>
i can't speak to how that would work from an engineering perspective
<ConditionBoy>
but an "app" should look and act exactly like any other "file" on a system for the user
<ConditionBoy>
one of the few things hellosystem got right lol
<ConditionBoy>
in their otherwise senseless zeal to "replicate" the "traditional" mac experience
<ConditionBoy>
but hey, any clock is right at least twice a day
<mmu_man>
ConditionBoy: never said so
<ConditionBoy>
linuxland is finally starting to catch onto the idea, but their implementations are flatpak and snap lol
<ConditionBoy>
appimage could be the thing, but it's an ultimately a fruitless uphill battle with the need for specially-placed .desktop files &c. work with des
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<ConditionBoy>
mmu_man: no, you didn't, but i sort of did
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<ConditionBoy>
i was clarifying my own argument
<ConditionBoy>
don't know why i tagged you
<ConditionBoy>
i is dumm
<julicenri>
Apps being special, self-contained directories is how RISC OS does it with theirs.
<julicenri>
It can get quite messy especially with lots of apps, based on prior experience with that OS.
<julicenri>
Even on RISC OS, there is a rudimentary package manager that puts app dirs into a specific place in the FS.
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<ConditionBoy>
i don't have any experience with that os
<ConditionBoy>
but if i'm understanding you correctly, the fact that appDirs would have to be put in a special place at all misses the point
<geist>
macos X does that too
<geist>
an Application is just a dir that has a known internal layout
<geist>
the finder understands it, and whatever the launcher service is understands it
<ConditionBoy>
geist: yeah, and it's brilliant
<ConditionBoy>
though i would argue that even mac abuses the concept of portability a bit with their appDir structure
<ConditionBoy>
purely as a matter of ideals, anyway
<ConditionBoy>
but as far as my adventures in computing have shown, mac still has by far the most ideal concept and implementation in that particular regard
<ConditionBoy>
i disagree with a lot of ux decisions with modern apple, but the fundaments of macos are pretty sweet
<ConditionBoy>
mostly because they're principled *and* (mostly) consistent with their principles
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<ConditionBoy>
one of the reasons i've always been drawn to haiku is that it has a chance to be principled both implementationally and philosophically
<ConditionBoy>
or at least politically\
<ConditionBoy>
the primary reason windows repulses me is because of its complete lack of principle in every regard
<bitigchi>
ConditionBoy: windows 10 is fast, but it looks awful in every regard
<AlwaysLivid>
how about metro apps?
<bitigchi>
too much wasted space
<bitigchi>
however, original design
<bitigchi>
i still prefer win32 :)
<ConditionBoy>
metro is a decent paradigm in itself, imo
<ConditionBoy>
but it suffers primarily from two things
<ConditionBoy>
lack of portability (in this context, i mean that it enforces opinionated ux paradigms <not a bad thing in itself> in environments where that paradigm doesn't make sense)
<ConditionBoy>
and a failure of dev culture (meaning that devs are just as inclined to reinvent the wheel instead of just using the danged wheel)
<ConditionBoy>
(presumably because the wheel is oval)
<ConditionBoy>
i don't want to speak too deeply on it,. because i'm not intimately familiar with it
<ConditionBoy>
but android continues to suffer from the same problem regarding dev culture
<ConditionBoy>
and god knows, linuxland is the poster boy for that kind of garbage
<ConditionBoy>
heck, it's the whole reason linuxland has managed to succeed as much as it has
<ConditionBoy>
same deal with the internet at large
<ConditionBoy>
so there's a certain amount of merit to that kind of dev philosophy
<ConditionBoy>
but it's inherently flawed
<ConditionBoy>
unmaintainable
<ConditionBoy>
if the primary function of a computer is to alleviate us of the burden of repeating work, then that m.o. is a failure
<AlwaysLivid>
really pains me to see that when i try to get someone involved with haiku, it's always like
<AlwaysLivid>
"uhhh, an operating system?! I really don't know whether I am good enough to do this!"
<AlwaysLivid>
and there's like, so much imposter syndrome every single time and we have to write 'no you don't need a lot of experience with lower level code' 3 times on the website
<bitigchi>
it might be a better idea to ask for help for a specific application bundled with the os?
<bitigchi>
like, say, would you like to hack on a web browser, or a text editor
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<AlwaysLivid>
bitigchi, good idea
<AlwaysLivid>
maybe we should advertise ourselves as an entire ecosystem too rather than an operating system
<HaikuUser>
howdy
<AlwaysLivid>
hi! HaikuUser
<ConditionBoy>
hello HaikuUser\
<HaikuUser>
Hello there!
<ConditionBoy>
we'd have to define what an operating system means
<AlwaysLivid>
there's only few exceptions of people outside of the community managing software meant for haiku
<AlwaysLivid>
neofetch being such an example
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<Kokito>
Long time no see Haiku folks!
<AlwaysLivid>
Hello, Kokito o/
<AlwaysLivid>
Probably not a person you're familiar with, but hi!
<Kokito>
Hi AlwaysLivid
<Kokito>
WebPositive plays videos. Wow!
<Kokito>
Anyone knows how to setup Email for a gmail account? Don't seem to get it right...
<ConditionBoy>
set up email for what?
<AlwaysLivid>
Kokito, gmail is a bit weird. you may need to check your security settings and disable secure mode
<AlwaysLivid>
gmail sort of hates clients that still use smtp
<Kokito>
AlwaysLivid, thanks! Will take a look
<Kokito>
ConditionBoy, how to configure so that I can receive emails in Haiku ;)
<ConditionBoy>
sorry Kokito, i don't have any experience with that specifically concerning gmail
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<Kokito>
No problem ConditionBoy!
<Kokito>
Will keep trying some other time ;)
<Kokito>
Good night!
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<DHowett>
crude, but effective (the +i + kick)
<DHowett>
:)
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<waddlesplash>
DHowett: ha, didn't even know that would happen tbh
<waddlesplash>
may be a side effect of netsplits
<AlwaysLivid>
That seems like it's been happening a bunch lately.
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<extrowerk>
i was kicked from haiku channel, however i did nothing wrong! :S
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<AlwaysLivid>
Not my fault!
<AlwaysLivid>
... Why do I literally never get kicked off from netsplits?
<nephele[m]>
you are on the right side ;)
<extrowerk>
even lost my red nickname. now i am in the middle of the list, which is bad because i have to scroll down everytime i want to send me something. whatever, i never really used that power.
<AlwaysLivid>
Wait, what's with the red nickname thing? extrowerk
<nephele[m]>
i can patch that color mighty quick!
<extrowerk>
i kicked a spammer once, i think
<nephele[m]>
alwayslivid: op
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<AlwaysLivid>
Well, I think it'd be fine for me to op you. I don't remember names and who's an op and who isn't, but I'm sure that you were an operator?
<nephele[m]>
haiku contributors get op normally
<AlwaysLivid>
that makes sense
<AlwaysLivid>
but you'd have to page waddlesplash to add you to the list so that ChanServ gives you OP automatically
<AlwaysLivid>
I also scrolled a bit up in my logs
<nephele[m]>
you just did ;)
<AlwaysLivid>
yeah, but it'll be gone when he gets disconnected
<nephele[m]>
page him i mean
<AlwaysLivid>
ohhh
<AlwaysLivid>
yup i deliberately did that
<AlwaysLivid>
totally
<waddlesplash>
extrowerk: not sure why you don't get auto-opped, you should be
<extrowerk>
yay, red nicname
<waddlesplash>
you are in the access lists right alongside everyone else...
<AlwaysLivid>
wait, extrowerk, are you authenticated?
<AlwaysLivid>
let me check
<extrowerk>
i switched znc host, probably thats why.
<extrowerk>
i think i am authenticated, yep
<AlwaysLivid>
yeah you seem to be
<waddlesplash>
not sure then. maybe you are joining channels before authenticating and that messes things up?
<waddlesplash>
not really sure how OFTC has this all work out
<AlwaysLivid>
no, when you authenticate, you get OP
<AlwaysLivid>
... can you try disconnecting and reconnecting again so that we can pinpoint the issue and raise this up with the oftc admins if needed?
<extrowerk>
let me see.
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<extrowerk>
maybe i am not authenticated...
<AlwaysLivid>
the account does seem registered and verified
<extrowerk>
that sure, i did that.
<extrowerk>
but znc should auth me.
<AlwaysLivid>
what does nickserv say when you connect?
<extrowerk>
-NickServ- This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your nickname, you may -NickServ- authenticate yourself to services with the IDENTIFY command. You are -NickServ- getting this message because you are not on the access list for the -NickServ- extrowerk nickname.
<AlwaysLivid>
yeah, your auth is definitely not working
<AlwaysLivid>
.-.
<extrowerk>
maybe i filled wrong pw in znc
<AlwaysLivid>
(guess all of this proves why i'm on the internet and boop computers and why i'm not a detective)
<AlwaysLivid>
extrowerk, you can identify manually and check
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<augiedoggie>
i had to enable the nickserv znc module when i switched to oftc, i've since switched to certfp authentication
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<AlwaysLivid>
[18:07:23] <augiedoggie> i had to enable the nickserv znc module when i switched to oftc, i've since switched to certfp authentication
<extrowerk>
jep, the pw was wrong, now it says: -NickServ- You are successfully identified as extrowerk.
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<AlwaysLivid>
question is, why isn't he an OP?
<AlwaysLivid>
... hm
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<AlwaysLivid>
let's see if this works now
<AlwaysLivid>
still no OP :V
<nephele[m]>
maybe i should set up an xmpp server
<AlwaysLivid>
it would be nice if we actually got our own infrastructure in this too tbh
<AlwaysLivid>
it would also definitely be a bit less of a hassle, in some ways
<nephele[m]>
not even znc manages to correctly stay conmected to irc, despite addons and stuff for functionality that should clearly be build in, useing a specific nickname is just too hard for it :)
<nephele[m]>
alwayslivid: an xmpp server for haiku with associated bridge or so?
<extrowerk>
nephele[m] i am pretty satisfied with znc and it runs on Haiku too.
<nephele[m]>
why would you run znc on haiku?
<extrowerk>
if thats running o nthe server, then thats what you use to cook, right?
<nephele[m]>
i am mostly annoyed that it utterly fails deaing with connectivity issues, like new ip every day, and fails to use my nickname again
<nephele[m]>
no you just use irc on the client, it works like a server kinda
<extrowerk>
you can just transplant your znc settings from other os. less setup headache in the client side.
<nephele[m]>
I had to add a thing to get it to actually pick my nickname again, since that isnt core functionality, and even with that it mostly doesnt work .-.
<nephele[m]>
same setup for the client i'd say in either case
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<dr_evil>
good evening everyone
<AlwaysLivid>
hey! :>
<julicenri>
ConditionBoy: What I meant earlier was that RISC OS now also hass a package manager that puts app dirs into a special place in the FS.
<julicenri>
However, they could just be put anywhere.
<julicenri>
It's done for the sake of keeping things tidy and organized.
<julicenri>
A user can also manually install them by moving an app dir to the designated place in the FS for apps.
<julicenri>
That can also be done with Haiku's HPKGs.
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<AlwaysLivid>
well, some hardening wouldn't hurt
<julicenri>
True, but perhaps that should be saved for when multi-user is exposed in the GUI first?
<drmadison>
ugh is haiku planning to go multi-user also?
<drmadison>
shame.... one of the things I liked about it was that it didn't try to pretend it was more than just a personal computer OS
<nephele[m]>
haiku has posix users
<drmadison>
yeah for posix compatibility but trying to make it a proper multi-user OS with all the stupid authentication prompts and privilege escalation and what-not ruins the simplicity and elegance for something 99% of people won't need
<leavengood>
If anything is added to have a user login or multiple users it would likely be opt-in and it could be ignored by whoever does not want it.
<tqh>
I think we agree, but I think it is more a failure of how it has been done in most other OS'es
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<drmadison>
it's probably just me being old-ass and crotchety lol but as soon as I have to start repeating myself to the OS "yes I'm sure I want to do X" or asking permission to do something I'm trying to be it stops feeling like my computer and more like someone elses I'm borrowing
<leavengood>
Yeah, I agree.
<Animortis>
Is the forum not linked on the Community page anymore?
<AlwaysLivid>
It's in 'Getting Involved' and in the Contact section, Animortis
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I wonder if the package system provides extra security against malware. They'd have to rewrite a package to install stuff? Or replace a package. Say, do we have signed packaged yet?
<Animortis>
it had been
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Umm, do we have signed packages yet?
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<leavengood>
No signed packages yet.
<AlwaysLivid>
It may or may not be temporary. It's impossible to navigate that stuff within the "Getting Involved" page, which doesn't make too much sense, and we need a new section on the website regarding Non-profit management.
<Animortis>
It's on the front page though so that's fine
<Animortis>
Just checking
<AlwaysLivid>
Yeah, there's basically three ways to navigate to that link.
<AlwaysLivid>
Same goes with some other sections, but I think that it sort of makes sense because the content of the website as a whole is a bit complicated.
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<AlwaysLivid>
There are some things that are definitely not perfect at all and that annoy me for the time being, but they will work, temporarily.
<extrowerk>
my vision is crashing. i have 2 computer with haiku, both configured to connect to the same znc instance, so vision runs on computer A and i start it on comp. B, the one on A crashes. It works the other way around too.
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<extrowerk>
question: did the beos 5 pro cd included the ppc version too or was it a separate disk?
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<extrowerk>
it seems the ppc version came on a separate disk
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<mcrcc>
extrowerk: is Vision's crash 100% reproducible?
<extrowerk>
yep, it is.
<mcrcc>
Can you change code and rebuild yourself?
<extrowerk>
i think
<mcrcc>
I have a hunch that it may be because 'ulong addr = inet_addr...' in ParseCmd.cpp should be 'in_addr_t addr = inet_addr...' and the types may not be the same size
<mcrcc>
line 1174
<extrowerk>
mcrcc: thanks, but i found a workaround: disabled freenode in znc, and now it doesn't crashing anymore.
<extrowerk>
i will hovewer create a ticket with my crashlog at vision, maybe somebody will fix it or smth
<extrowerk>
sorry, but i have enough on my plate right now, and already disabled freenode in both client and in znc, building vision and test it would require too much time now what i don't have.
<extrowerk>
just made the ticket and quoted your proposal, hope its is ok.
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<mcrcc>
of course
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<roiredX>
bye all
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<swift110>
sup folks
<AlwaysLivid>
hi swift110!
<swift110>
how are you AlwaysLivid
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<AlwaysLivid>
doing fine, swift110!
<swift110>
good AlwaysLivid
<swift110>
just setting things up on otfc right now
<AlwaysLivid>
that's nice, need help? swift110
<swift110>
Yeah, I do actually
<AlwaysLivid>
you seem registered and verified, would recommend /msg NickServ CLOAK ON
<swift110>
ok cool
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<ConditionBoy>
anyone willing to explain to me how i can view changes to tracker after tweaking the code?
<AlwaysLivid>
try git diff ^-^
<extrowerk>
i think he meant how to run his own-built tracker.
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<ConditionBoy>
extrowerk: that's correct
<extrowerk>
if that's what you have meant, then "launch_roster list" can givew you the list about the available targets. "x-vnd.be-trak" is Tracker, you can instruct launch_daemon to not respawn it if it dies, with the "launch_roaster" command (check the --help output.
<extrowerk>
Be careful and keep always at least one Terminal windo open, so you can restore the original state.
<extrowerk>
So tell launch_daemon to not retsrat tracker, then just kill the system one and start yours.
<extrowerk>
if you are finished, just instruct launch_roaster to start x-vnd.be-trak
<extrowerk>
maybe some parts of my explaantion is not superfluous, but this is the general idea.
<ConditionBoy>
woof
<ConditionBoy>
thanks
<extrowerk>
post/trk/tskb targets have this short names because BeOS legacy. Others are more easily recognizable.
<bitigchi>
or just recompile the whole system as haiku.hpkg and install that package :)
<ConditionBoy>
then i'd need to start my own tracker after disabling the system one, right?
<extrowerk>
post is mail, obviously, trk is tracker and tskb is taskbar/deskbar i think
<ConditionBoy>
or something
<extrowerk>
exactly
<extrowerk>
you can start yours normally from a Terminal
<ConditionBoy>
i picked an interesting project to get my feet wet with haiku dev, but it's definitely accelerating my learning
<ConditionBoy>
what happens if my system crashes?
<extrowerk>
hop it is something interesting stuff
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<extrowerk>
you mean your tracker or your whole system?
<ConditionBoy>
it's a pretty common occurence for my system to kernel panic and need to be hard reset
<ConditionBoy>
whole system
<extrowerk>
i don't understand what you mean. Do you want to know what triggers the crash, or what happens after the kernel detects some unexpected thing and goes into KDL?
<ConditionBoy>
not because of what i'm doing, but that's neither kere nor there
<extrowerk>
or what do you want toknow exactly?
<ConditionBoy>
i want to know what my system state will be on reboot if i disable tracker then have to hard reset
<extrowerk>
it will stay disabled. but you can start a terminal from the deskbar
<extrowerk>
deskbar is an independent component. do not stop that :)
<extrowerk>
i mean do not stop nboth
<extrowerk>
but afaik you can spawn a terminal with a keyboard shortcut too
<ConditionBoy>
what i still don't understand is how to actually launch my built tracker from the terminal
<extrowerk>
Alt+Win+T
<extrowerk>
^^^ this starts a terminal
<extrowerk>
easily just like : /here/is/your/Tracker
<extrowerk>
and enter
<extrowerk>
you can test it with the system provided one. it is in /boot/system folder
<extrowerk>
so a command like /boot/system/Tracker <enter> would start it.
<ConditionBoy>
well that makes sense, it's what i've been doing with all the apps i've edited
<ConditionBoy>
but compiling those spits out an executable binary to s specific folder
<extrowerk>
just checked, you dont have to kill Tracker after stopping it in launch_roaster. it wil lbe automatically killed
<ConditionBoy>
i can't seem to find what the equivalent for tracker is or where it's being placed
<extrowerk>
so use the comman launch_roster stop x-vnd.be-trak to stop it
<extrowerk>
and then /here/is/your/Tracker to start yours
<extrowerk>
afterward you can return to the sys tracker with launch_roster start x-vnd.be-trak
<iisi>
Hmm, can't find your custom Tracker? Without me knowing where to look, my first guess is to do a search, either for files modified after a certain time, or just sort by date after searching for your word.
<extrowerk>
yep, you can search for Tracker, or dive into the "generated" folder
<extrowerk>
it must be somewhere there as a normal executable
<extrowerk>
with icon and everything
<ConditionBoy>
well that was my instinct, but i can't seem to find it
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<ConditionBoy>
maybe i have to jam a specific way?
<ConditionBoy>
by the way, it would be helpful to have a man for jam on the system
<ConditionBoy>
yeah, i must be trying to build tracker wrong, because even the limited output doesn't imply output
<Not-b5c9>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JGv29
<ConditionBoy>
it generates a bunch of o files and an so file
<ConditionBoy>
though the output stops at `found 13554 target(s)`
<ConditionBoy>
hold up, there's a readme lol
<ConditionBoy>
still should have a man though
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<extrowerk>
build a minimum nightly image, it wil ltrigger the build of Tracker for sure. I have no better idea right now
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<ConditionBoy>
that's what i figured as well
<ConditionBoy>
trying to figure out how to do that
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<ConditionBoy>
running `jam` from top level by itself invariably triggers a kernel panic
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<Not-b5c9>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JGv6i
<Not-b5c9>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli da684d5 - assimp: force 1 job build
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<ConditionBoy>
alright fellas, i'd appreciate if anyone has built tracker to throw me a bone about how to do it
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<leavengood>
So most of Tracker is actually in a library, libtracker.so.
<ConditionBoy>
right, i see that in the generated folder
<ConditionBoy>
i'm trying to build a tracker executable that i can run to view my changes to the source code
<leavengood>
Tracker should also be a target. Though I think you should be able to just test with libtracker.so being put into the unpackaged/lib directory.
<ConditionBoy>
i'm sorry, leavengood, can you elaborate?
<leavengood>
You have to stop it with launch_daemon though, then can run it form the Terminal.
<ConditionBoy>
assume i'm a moron, because i am
<leavengood>
It is kind of tricky, it isn't you.
<leavengood>
So most of Haiku is packaged, right.
<leavengood>
So if you want to just test a small piece, your options are too rebuild the whole Haiku package and install that, then test. But that is annoying.
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<leavengood>
So you can actually just build the part you want and then we have special "unpackaged" directories under home/config where you can put binaries and libraries.
<leavengood>
Tracker is kind of special though since it is part of the system and is running by default, launched by our laucnhing system launch_daemon.
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<leavengood>
So even once you have your special version in the right places, you can't run it until you stop the other one.
<leavengood>
Tracker is one of the trickier pieces to work on, besides the kernel.
<ConditionBoy>
drop the generated .so file in there then restart tracker?
<leavengood>
Right.
<leavengood>
Maybe add a printf somewhere to know your changes were applied. Unless the change is obvious.
<leavengood>
You can run Tracker from Terminal to get console output
<ConditionBoy>
then presumably remove that file to go back to system version?
<leavengood>
Exactly.
<ConditionBoy>
that's pretty clean, actually
<ConditionBoy>
i'm gonna try it out
<leavengood>
The non-packaged lib directory is earlier in the load order when libraries are loaded.
<ConditionBoy>
question
<leavengood>
Remember to stop the existing tracker with `launch stop <whatever the mime type of tracker is>`. You can launch list I think to see that.
<ConditionBoy>
i was going to ask how to restart the tracker service
<ConditionBoy>
launch_roster has a restart
<leavengood>
Thats the one.
<leavengood>
I'm not in Haiku right now, hehe.
<ConditionBoy>
alright, i'm going to make a more pronounced change now and see if this is working
<leavengood>
You will know a lot more about Haiku after this.
<ConditionBoy>
i've learned a tremendous amount over the past few days
<leavengood>
It's a nice system to learn stuff.
<AlwaysLivid>
It definitely motivates me to learn more.
<AlwaysLivid>
Some parts about Haiku are way too mature, so I can't really hack around with them, so I literally went in on this other operating system project and just looked at how Haiku and FreeBSD (but especially Haiku, because I'm more familiar) dealt with this problem.
<ConditionBoy>
does this .so lib drop technique work with other kits?
<leavengood>
Yes. But libbe.so is very fundamental and I've sene crazy stuff happen when I played with the menu code.
<leavengood>
I should write up a tutorial with walking through making a change like this to a library and an app, with various tips and tricks, though I suspect other developers have better tricks.
<leavengood>
Some things are harder to work on than others.
<AlwaysLivid>
I would *love* to read that, honestly.
<ConditionBoy>
+1
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<augiedoggie>
seems like it'd be easier to stop the system tracker, edit the LIBRARY_PATH variable, then launch your new Tracker from the command line
<augiedoggie>
add the freshly built libtracker path to the beginning of LIBRARY_PATH
<leavengood>
Seems like the same thing as I said.
<augiedoggie>
except you're moving files around
<leavengood>
True
<augiedoggie>
and it could potentially cause mismatches
<augiedoggie>
system Tracker and user built libtracker
<leavengood>
Should be fine unless the ABI was changed.
<ConditionBoy>
good lord, do you really have to override every single parent class constructor for it to work in c++?
<augiedoggie>
part of the problems is that it's old c++, a modern api would probably make better use of templates/lambdas/etc...
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<ConditionBoy>
crap
<ConditionBoy>
doesn't seem to be working
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<ConditionBoy>
augiedoggie: would you mind being a bit more specific with your previous suggestion?
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<WoC>
anyone familiar with the uEnv.txt on the arm version ?
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<AlwaysLivid>
Hah, this chat does seem to get more alive and vibrant as the hours pass.
<AlwaysLivid>
Not sure how to answer WoC's question though.
<WoC-Matrix[m]>
Nor I
<WoC>
will try to explore the files on the boot partition...
<WoC>
is it possible to resize a partition within haiku ?
<iisi>
I think Drive Setup cannot yet resize a BFS filesystem. Dunno if there's any partition resizing of any kind.
<AlwaysLivid>
We were actually talking about this earlier today, there's a "topic" called bfsresize which hasn't been merged yet.
<iisi>
Short-short version: Freenode is now despot node.
<WoC>
going to try a quick and dirty trick with the arm haiku... maybe it boots
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<Skipp_OSX>
is irc.freenode.net #haiku dead?
<Skipp_OSX>
also, has Vision been updated?
<AlwaysLivid>
Yeah, you should update, Skipp_OSX
<AlwaysLivid>
The most recent bug regarding the topic URLs hasn't been published under a new verison.
<AlwaysLivid>
irc.freenode.net #haiku is basically unused. Andrew Lee effectively banned linking to other networks, as far as I know, so it's a matter of time until it's fully dead and/or some staff members get penalized.
<Skipp_OSX>
not until TextView gets merged I guess
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<AlwaysLivid>
Skipp_OSX, publishing a new version of Vision with the new OFTC configuration by default was basically pretty much one of the first things we did in the first 6 hours after the resignation letters started circulating
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<Skipp_OSX>
it shouldn't auto-join #haiku anyway
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean... it's fine that it does though right now
<AlwaysLivid>
Where else should it auto-join?
<AlwaysLivid>
People use Vision to directly come in touch with us over here. It's like a lifeline!
<augiedoggie>
ConditionBoy: was afk for a minute, after you stop the system Tracker with the launch_roster command then you can run a command like 'LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/release/kits/tracker:$LIBRARY_PATH /path/to/generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/release/apps/tracker/Tracker"
<ConditionBoy>
i don't understand the last part of that
<ConditionBoy>
jam doesn't generate an executable for tracker
<augiedoggie>
it should
<ConditionBoy>
it doesn't, though
<B2IA>
(AGMS) That last example set the environment variable LIBRARY_PATH to a different custom one, so it would pick up your libraries first. Then runs Tracker with that library path.
<augiedoggie>
even if you type "jam Tracker" from the generated dir?
<ConditionBoy>
other apps i've built all end up there
<augiedoggie>
maybe there's an error message you're missing, are you running jam with -q ?
<ConditionBoy>
from the generated dir?
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<augiedoggie>
yeah
<ConditionBoy>
is in haiku/generated?
<augiedoggie>
yes
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I avoid the trickery at the expense of having a second disk partition with a test Haiku install, and build the whole OS, installing it to the test partition, then boot that one. Easier if you are running in a virtual machine.
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<Skipp_OSX>
it shouldn't auto-join anywhere you can join whatever room(s) you want to
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Also the VM (VirtualBox) saves serial port output to a text file, and I have a window open showing the tail --follow of that file.
<Skipp_OSX>
I understand and it's not a big deal it's fine the way it is (I guess since it got updated to irc.oftc.net immediately)
<AlwaysLivid>
ConditionBoy, BTW: Regarding copying files, you can just use the Installer.
<ConditionBoy>
`jam Tracker` in the generated dir does nothing
<bbjimmy_mobile>
Ok, I'm at hrev53794 and Software updates says that there no updates avalable... what's up?
<B2IA>
(AGMS) But then I was fidding with the package daemon boot up processing, so I had to do the whole OS build and boot test.
<AlwaysLivid>
The installer will also move all your files and the current system over to the media you're installing Haiku to.
<iisi>
Auto-joining the project's chat seems a sensible default to me.
<ConditionBoy>
AlwaysLivid: nice tip, thanks
<AlwaysLivid>
ConditionBoy, I suggested that we somehow alert the user over this and change this in the Installer a week ago, but that didn't go anywhere.
<Skipp_OSX>
maybe some day when Haiku has conquered the world we'll take auto-join of
<Skipp_OSX>
off
<bbjimmy_mobile>
Anybody know what the proper repo addresses are for haiku and haikuports current?
<AlwaysLivid>
Skipp_OSX, why would we? The more, the merrier! :D
<AlwaysLivid>
It includes a mention of the proper URLs.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) bbjimmy_mobile, try "pkgman list""
<iisi>
It's a default, not enforced. (-:
<augiedoggie>
ConditionBoy: how many results do you get if you run: query "BEOS:APP_SIG=application/x-vnd.Be-TRAK"
<ConditionBoy>
when i run `jam` in the `src/kits/tracker` dir, it spits out a bunch of .o files and a .so file to `haiku/generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/release/kits/tracker`
<ConditionBoy>
and that's it
<AlwaysLivid>
B2IA, AGMS: I'm assuming that bbjimmy_mobile needs the addresses to restore the defaults.
<ConditionBoy>
as far as i have been able to find, anyway
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<AlwaysLivid>
in the sense that the repository links they are using right now have been altered or removed
<augiedoggie>
ConditionBoy: you should run jam from the top-level generated directory
<AlwaysLivid>
always the top directory :)
<AGMS>
Haiku
<ConditionBoy>
Skipp_OSX: i agree with you, and i also agree that for the moment it is probably best to remain as-is
<ConditionBoy>
augiedoggie: where should i run that BEOS command
<ConditionBoy>
?
<augiedoggie>
that can be run from anywhere, but i think the problem is that you were running jam from a subdir and not the top level genereated
<ConditionBoy>
also, as previously discussed, running jam from the top level generated directory does nothing
<augiedoggie>
so it wasn't building the Tracker target
<augiedoggie>
weird
<ConditionBoy>
wait
<ConditionBoy>
yeah it does
<ConditionBoy>
lol i was one level too deep
<ConditionBoy>
crap, kernel panic
<ConditionBoy>
it can't just be me, right? terminal crashes the system all the time
<ConditionBoy>
like, once an hour or so
<augiedoggie>
i get very few panics these days
<B2IA>
(AGMS) ConditionBoy running jam from the source directory, not the generated one, may work better. Though that needs the default generated directory setup and name.
<ConditionBoy>
to be fair, it might not be terminal itself
<augiedoggie>
an occasional app_server crash is about it
<ConditionBoy>
B2IA: every time i try that, my system crashes
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, not good.
<augiedoggie>
might be time to run a 'checkfs /boot'
<ConditionBoy>
ooh, this next crash happened almost immediately
<ConditionBoy>
no terminal required
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) I was going to try it here, but my "generated" directory is outside the source tree to make file searches for source code easier. There's probably a jam option to specify the generated directory...
<ConditionBoy>
alright, thrice in a row that jamming from generated crashed my system
<ConditionBoy>
what the heck, man
<ConditionBoy>
this is no way to develop
<B2IA>
(AGMS) $(HAIKU_OUTPUT_DIR) seems to be the "generated" directory if it's nonstandard.
<ConditionBoy>
whyyyyyyyyyyyyy
<augiedoggie>
ConditionBoy: did you try a checkfs?
<ConditionBoy>
no, i didn't
<ConditionBoy>
good news is that `jam Tracker` from the generated directory produced a binary
<augiedoggie>
heh, nice
<ConditionBoy>
now i have to remember all the other stuff to try and get it running
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Now trying "jam -q -da Clock" from the source directory for the clock, seems to be building something.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Object files are in the correct generated directory.
<kirenoto>
.ckear
<kirenoto>
(oops, lol)
<ConditionBoy>
hey hey hey!!!!
<ConditionBoy>
alright!
<ConditionBoy>
i did the thing!
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Still building stuff here, 700 targets to make the clock.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) And it finished, with a ...generated.../release/apps/clock/Clock
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I'll have to add that environment variable to my login defaults, makes it easier to compile pieces of Haiku.
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<Skipp_OSX>
we really need to implement color profiles in Appearance
<ConditionBoy>
Skipp_OSX: that's something i was planning on doing after this project
<Skipp_OSX>
not if I get to it first (unlikely)
<ConditionBoy>
we can do it together
<ConditionBoy>
i have a vision
<Skipp_OSX>
I'd do it as a list view, I'd build color sets for Haiku and Zeta, throw flat color scheme and flat dark too with a button to Add/Edit that opens the current color view in a window.
<ConditionBoy>
which at the least comprises four "season" color profiles, with a day and night scheme each, and being able to optionally define a time of day for the system to switch to the current color profile's night theme
<ConditionBoy>
then an option for the user to define their own profile(s)
<Skipp_OSX>
right, you define your own color scheme in the window.
<Skipp_OSX>
and it gets added to the list view
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<Skipp_OSX>
color scheme is the terminology we currently use