ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
Brainium has joined #wayland
nerdopolis has joined #wayland
<Company>
Riolku: in terms of graphics it has a few advantages over unsigned 16bit
<Company>
first: 16bit is better than 32bit (and real floats) because you only need half the bandwidth
<Company>
but you need better than 8bit if you do HDR graphics, because with 8bit errors get too big
<Company>
float naturally fits, because GPUs operate with floats, so you don't need to do the mapping between 0..1 and 0..65535
<Company>
and you have the benefit that you can over- and underflow floats (again, useful with HDR)
<Company>
and you get the benefit that you don't need the gamma correction that's usually done to get more values in the dark regions
<Company>
because small numbers in float representations are closer
co1umbarius has joined #wayland
columbarius has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nerdopolis has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
on_the_menu has joined #wayland
<Riolku>
oh, huh
<Riolku>
ty for the explanation 😄
sewn has joined #wayland
sewn has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
fmuellner has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<danieldg>
it's particularly useful if you want to operate in a linear colorspace (most drawing algorithms assume that) instead of srgb which is normal for 8bit things
<danieldg>
ah, you already said that, nvm
swick[m] has joined #wayland
nnm has quit []
nnm has joined #wayland
lsd|2 has quit []
i509vcb has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
kenrendell[m] has joined #wayland
i509vcb has joined #wayland
carlos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Riolku>
ah, because it's a closed field over multiplication?
<RAOF>
No (it's not closed over multiplication), but because the gamma function is used to make the 8-bit range approximately _perceptually_ linear (so you don't lose perceptual precision in the dark bits). You don't need to make a float representation perceptually linear to do that, because it naturally has more precision close to 0 _and_ it's got enough precision that you don't have to care.
<Company>
and perceptually linear means that it's not linear, so all the math operations are slightly off
kenny has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5]
bdaase[m] has joined #wayland
kenny has joined #wayland
kts has joined #wayland
Brainium has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
kts has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ahmadraniri[m] has joined #wayland
danburd[m] has joined #wayland
kts has joined #wayland
kts has quit []
kenny has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5]
Company has quit [Quit: Leaving]
kenny has joined #wayland
tent405 has joined #wayland
kts has joined #wayland
q234rty[m][m] has joined #wayland
nazarewk[m] has joined #wayland
ttancos[m] has joined #wayland
d_ed[m] has joined #wayland
iomari891 has joined #wayland
sima has joined #wayland
iomari891 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nielsdg has joined #wayland
rv1sr has joined #wayland
glennk has joined #wayland
bindu has joined #wayland
bindu_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
i509vcb has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
elinor has joined #wayland
Leopold__ has joined #wayland
Leopold_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
junglerobba[m] has joined #wayland
bindu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bindu has joined #wayland
rasterman has joined #wayland
niecoinny[m] has joined #wayland
caveman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
caveman has joined #wayland
caveman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
caveman has joined #wayland
pobthebuilder[m] has joined #wayland
sewn has joined #wayland
emilio[m] has joined #wayland
on_the_menu has quit []
sevz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.1.0]
kts has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
gfxstrand has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
gfxstrand has joined #wayland
Saijin_Naib[m] has joined #wayland
unix-supremacist[m] has joined #wayland
Vanfanel has joined #wayland
mvlad has joined #wayland
AJ_Z0 has quit [Quit: I have to return some videotapes]
AJ_Z0 has joined #wayland
ManMower has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ManMower has joined #wayland
JayBeeFOSS has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
dani-g5x[m] has joined #wayland
Max1 has joined #wayland
JayBeeFOSS has joined #wayland
cmeissl[m] has joined #wayland
jlco_ has joined #wayland
jlco has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
teh1[m] has joined #wayland
glennk has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
furyishere[m] has joined #wayland
yshui` has joined #wayland
<pq>
Gamma *correction* is a different operation than gamma encoding AFAIU. I believe correction is about adjusting values, while encoding is just a form of data compression to use less bandwidth for the same level of visible errors.
<pq>
both can be applied with the same mathematical formula with just a different exponent, but the semantics are very different.
NepNepdmsalwaysopen[m] has joined #wayland
enick_702 has joined #wayland
<pq>
"Linear" is always relative to something else. We just tend to use a shorthand "linear" for "radiometrically/optically linear".
columbarius has joined #wayland
<pq>
Perceptually linear is linear wrt. perception, but perception is not linear wrt. radiometry (measured energy).
<pq>
yes, it does define gamma correction as encoding, but see also the mentions of end-to-end power function.
<kennylevinsen>
sometimes I just think color screens were a mistake
<pq>
good that this gamma thing is not about color, it applies to black&white images :-)
<pq>
or gray-scale
<kennylevinsen>
true, but imagine how much easier CMS would be in monochrome :)
<pq>
that would certainly put some hard limits in what can be done at all
<pq>
if you think gamma of today is confusing, look at question 14 "How is gamma handled in video, computer graphics, and desktop composuting?" ;-)
<pq>
Then notice the sentence: "It is conventional in computer graphics to store linear-light values in the framebuffer"
<emersion>
yikes
<pq>
Yeah, that was forgotten over the decades because in 8 bit would look kinda bad in today's, or event the 00s, standards.
robertmader[m] has joined #wayland
<pq>
Definitely good to keep in mind that the GammaFAQ was written in the 90s. :-)
YHNdnzj[moz] has joined #wayland
<pq>
Do you happen to remember issues like "Quake on X11 looks far too dark" from the 90s?
JosExpsito[m] has joined #wayland
<pq>
or was it already 00s
<pq>
I can guess that the game rendered in linear light and expected the winsys to do the gamma encoding for display. Which would make all other apps that were authored directly into display-compatible pixels look washed out and wrong.
Sumera[m] has joined #wayland
Mershl[m] has joined #wayland
anarsoul|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
doras has joined #wayland
anarsoul has joined #wayland
rgallaispou has joined #wayland
<Ermine>
So, GammaFAQ is irrelevant?
KingoftheElves[m] has joined #wayland
<pq>
No, it's not.
<JEEB>
pq: oooh, so that is why there were those differences. some APIs letting you leaving the transfer function handling to the OS and letting you just handle linear
<pq>
History is important in trying to understand what different people and writings could mean with "gamma".
<pq>
also the principles of physics and human perception have not changed
<pq>
JEEB, and some APIs implying you apply *part* of the transfer function, the OS applying another part, and the display more or less undoing both.
<JEEB>
that sounds like fun.jpg
<pq>
JEEB, see that question 14. :-)
<pq>
it has diagrams
DodoGTA has quit [Quit: DodoGTA]
<JEEB>
nice PDF :D
DodoGTA has joined #wayland
teaper[m] has joined #wayland
[old]freshgumbubbles[m] has joined #wayland
glennk has joined #wayland
eroc1990 has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
<pq>
swick[m], I still don't know what timezone carlosg used for the Wayland governance meeting time poll for Oct 31 / Nov 1. Do you?
hex[m]1 has joined #wayland
<swick[m]>
pq: just talked with carlos and we're going with CET ;)
botiapa[m] has joined #wayland
heeen[m] has joined #wayland
zebrag[m] has joined #wayland
kts has joined #wayland
RomanGilg[m] has joined #wayland
sevz has joined #wayland
glennk has joined #wayland
AnuthaDev has quit []
kts has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
lsd|2 has quit []
lsd|2 has joined #wayland
agd5f_ has joined #wayland
kts has joined #wayland
agd5f has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AnuthaDev has joined #wayland
rasterman has quit [Quit: Gettin' stinky!]
bindu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bindu has joined #wayland
glennk has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AnuthaDev has left #wayland [#wayland]
zzxyb[m] has joined #wayland
Poly[m] has joined #wayland
doraskayo has joined #wayland
luks2[m] has joined #wayland
nerdopolis has joined #wayland
JayBeeFOSS has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nniro has joined #wayland
<nniro>
Hello, I've seen in the docs that it is possible to output the "Flight recorder" data in weston using some keyboard entry. I have tried to do it but never got any special output as a result. I basically want to debug kiosk-shell and see what events are triggered.
<nniro>
I really don't know what to expect from this "Flight recorder"... I just wanted to avoid having to put fprintf calls all over the code to figure what is happening during various events
<mvlad>
nniro, the flight recorder logs in by default two log scopes, log (the weston logs), and the drm-backend.
<mvlad>
you can use weston_log() instead of fprintf and everything will go to the "log", log scope - which is also dumped by default.
<nniro>
mvlad: ok, thanks
<mvlad>
nniro, if can create a dedicated log scope, (like kiosk-shell-debug-scope) where and you can tell weston just to display that. weston_log() will basically disseminate the messages to all log scopes that you have subscribed to.
<mvlad>
alternative search for other log scopes and see how those are created.
sergi1 has joined #wayland
enick_819 has joined #wayland
<nniro>
mvlad: I've been working on my MR #1374 and as I was switching virtual terminal, I noticed the focus is not regained. The only way I manage to recover focus is by using my mouse and click anywhere. I thought I could try to help and fix that issue
j-james[m] has joined #wayland
mclasen has joined #wayland
<mvlad>
nniro, btw, seems like you need to re-push your changes. fdo org had some issues yesterday and some of commits/push have been lost.
mclasen has quit []
<mvlad>
nniro, wrt to input focus maybe that due to enter/leave events? What backend do you run weston on? For wayland protocol there's a dedicated log scope, called proto. If you start weston with --debug then you can weston-debug -a which would basically subscribe to all log scopes currently available, maybe one of that might be useful to you (alternative you'd have to create one yourself).
<nniro>
mvlad: oh, ok thanks
<nniro>
mvlad: I'm on a raspberry pi, using the drm backend
<mvlad>
so you basically switch between ttys?
<nniro>
yes
<mvlad>
and you loose input focus when you get back... more like something related to input.
<nniro>
[2023-10-24 12:30:11.301][proto] client 0xaaaafda90f50 (PID 1958741) ev wl_seat@9.capabilities(0)