robclark changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
<robclark>
HdkR: are you sure RNG issue is not just a WSL issue?
<robclark>
btw, seems https://github.com/aarch64-laptops/build/pulls has a backlog of ACPI table dumps (for pre-x1 things) and other PRs.. maybe someone who has access can land them? hopefully we start getting folks uploading ACPI dumps for x1 things, since there is a whole lot of .dts to write (and I don't think we want bamse to be crushed under a pile of laptops)
<konradybcio>
this repo looks rather dead.. if shawnguo is not interested in maintaining it further, i can set up something on gh/linux-msm
<robclark>
yeah, my point in mentioning this was bringing it back to life, since we'll need it for x1 ;-)
<robclark>
if shawnguo is the owner, maybe he could add someone else?
<konradybcio>
i am also slowly exploring an acpi-to-dt generator.. but so far i only found bugs in an acpi crate ;)
<robclark>
heh, acpi-to-dt would be nice.. if it is feasible
<konradybcio>
still a question.. there are lots of moving parts, so it wouldn't just be automagic.. probably requiring some semi-interactive user input
<konradybcio>
and then creatng DTs programmatically is way more readable by doing text replacement rather than using libfdt.. which is not very convenient
<robclark>
I guess at least comparing say crd acpi to device I have, I might be able to figure out some of the needed dts changes (maybe? It's defn not my area of expertise)
<konradybcio>
sorta.. but the diff tends to have a lot of gibberish (e.g. device-specific ec functions and vendor specific solutions to a very generic and already solved problem) and explaining that to a computer is difficult
<robclark>
(I've ordered the yoga.. I'll upload acpi dumps when it arrives in a few weeks)
<konradybcio>
and then there's things hardcoded in oem windows drivers that we can't get from acpi that may differ between devices
<robclark>
maybe it is worth pointing out which other files we should get md5sum's of to see if they differ btwn vendors or not?
<konradybcio>
they will all have different driver signatures, most likely
<robclark>
maybe.. but my point is there are a bunch of devices that are starting to ship.. we should make it easy for folks who have devices and want linux support to upload useful info
<konradybcio>
for non-multimedia stuff, acpi should be enough..
<konradybcio>
and hopefully nobody is crazy enough to ship a dsi panel
<konradybcio>
and then, the user will still need to source the firmware from windows
<konradybcio>
remoteproc and friends
<robclark>
probably not for clamshells (signal length is an issue)..
<robclark>
anyways, update wiki with what files to copy, what info to upload, etc
<robclark>
unless you want to order 15+ laptops yourself ;-)
<konradybcio>
i wish i had even one ;)
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<LoganLeland[m]>
<JensGlathe[m]> "Are y'all enduring a lot of pain..." <- with binary ninja getting linux arm support and having the ability to play youtube I'm happy!
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<wiley[m]>
For me, Vivaldi's latest blog post about Manifest v2 made this moot. I'm switching to Firefox.
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<wiley[m]>
> <@mynery:matrix.org> i have the exact same issue. if you figure it out, let me know. i could get widevine to work, but not ffmpeg
<wiley[m]>
* For me, Vivaldi's latest blog post about Manifest v2 made this moot.
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<abby>
anyone here have a clue as to why __this_module might be smaller on a dkms module when the main kernel is cross-compiled?
<abby>
(error message ".gnu.linkonce.this_module section size must match the kernel's built struct module size at run time")
<abby>
0x500 is the correct size, as that's what modules from a natively-built kernel, the cross-built kernel, and dkms against the natively-built kernel have
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<JensGlathe[m]>
no idea, but I do native and cross runs and this didn't show up
<steev>
i'd assume it's the cross toolchain optimizations
<steev>
but that wouldn't make sense if it's only happening when natively building against a cross compiled kernel
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<steev>
LoganLeland[m]: do they offer the arm download yet or only if you have a license and from there?
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<steveej[m]>
my x13s can't connect to a hostapd access point that's running on an mt798x-wmac -- from windows only! it works on linux, however i do have periods of disconnects on linux too. i always assumed my linux setup causes the wifi dropouts, learning that windows doesn't connect at all makes me wonder what's going on
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<Jasper[m]>
<steveej[m]> "my x13s can't connect to a..." <- What distro is it? Could you show us the output of `sudo dmesg | grep ath11k`
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<steev>
linux has the better wifi firmware ;)
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<Jasper[m]>
<steev> "linux has the better wifi..." <- Yes, but depending on the distro that might not be as well-updated as you may expect :P
<Jasper[m]>
I wanted to suggest to copy over .41 or whatever's the newest just to see if it changes anything
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<steveej[m]>
<Jasper[m]> "What distro is it? Could you..." <- the x13s and the router are on nixos 24.05. windows is the default. i'm really interested to get the windows machine connected as well. since i have access to the AP on the OS level this should be possible somehow
<Jasper[m]>
steveej[m]: Well there's a wlan firmware version that made it quite a bit more stable. If you check output of the command I sent we may be able to find out if you have that or not
<Jasper[m]>
The one on Windows is definitely old, copying it over from linux-firmware may also have some impact, but no idea if that would work or not.
<HdkR>
"Retail availability on June 18." It must not be June 18th on their calendar yet :)
<Jasper[m]>
maz: Yep, same
<travmurav[m]>
strongtz: Nice! Did firmware include the dt or you had to add it?
<strongtz[m]>
travmurav tbh I just never expected the firmware to provide the dt lol
<travmurav[m]>
ah so I guess had to write it, right
<strongtz[m]>
yeah
<travmurav[m]>
qcom mentioned something about shipping the dt at some point so I was wondering xD
<travmurav[m]>
and I guess there is no el2 knob exposed in this one?
<strongtz[m]>
no, at least no option in UEFI firmware
<travmurav[m]>
right, so as I expected I guess - at best it was some experiment and no oem would expose it xD
<travmurav[m]>
so I guess still can hope there is some leftovers in the hyp code so one could implement it later with a dedicated driver
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<strongtz[m]>
I'm helping a media group in China to get Linux working for benchmarking lol
<strongtz[m]>
there's also Asus Vivobook and Surface Pro here
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<strongtz[m]>
there's really nothing interesting in their UEFI menu
<steveej[m]>
<Jasper[m]> "I think it's already in..." <- thanks! i'll double-check how that arrives on my machine and see if i can get it updated.
<Jasper[m]>
I'm not that well acquainted with nixOS, but I'm sure you can update the package locally if needed
<Jasper[m]>
Otherwise if you wanna test it out you can clone the git repo and copy the files over hahahaha
<steveej[m]>
<Jasper[m]> "The one on Windows is definitely..." <- i don't quite understand where there could be an incompatibility. i would expect lenovo to ship firmware that at least connects at all on their windows installations. i can't get it past the initial set up menu without connectivity
<Jasper[m]>
steveej[m]: Well it did fine for me
<steveej[m]>
it must be specific combination with my AP and this machine then
<Jasper[m]>
I have heard from a different WoA device that there have been issues with Wifi6 AP's but that may not transfer over to this wlan chip
<Jasper[m]>
You can try going back to AC and N
<steveej[m]>
i actually only have G mode enabled. i'm just learning about the wifi "capabilities" that influence channel width etc. there might be some mismatch
<Jasper[m]>
steveej[m]: That's very slow I think hahahaha
<steveej[m]>
it's an aarch64 device too, bananapi r3
<steveej[m]>
it delivers ~100mbit/s which is fine for what i do on wifi
<steveej[m]>
i've got more concerning issues than slowness at this point ;)
<Jasper[m]>
Well try to turn on every wifi mode first
<Jasper[m]>
And optionally disable ax on both bands if you're having issues
<\[m]1>
<strongtz[m]> "Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 (x1e78100)" <- noise - is that oled screen? or it's just always glossy?
<strongtz[m]>
\ I haven't really checked the specs
<\[m]1>
dgilmore on this note (glossy screens) don't forget you can literally most of the time see yourself in this mirror of a screen of the macbooks (I am on M1 again and you get used to it but it's subpar imo)
<dgilmore>
\[m]1: I don't think you meant to direct that at me
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<dgilmore>
Has anyone else seen 6.10 kernels rebooting rather than powering off?
<Jasper[m]>
There was some murmur around that here
<Jasper[m]>
Don't remember when it was, but it was definitely discussed
<Jasper[m]>
@jhovold and/or @konradybcio may know more
<jhovold>
dgilmore: yeah, there's a fix in my wip branch, 6.10 regression, on it's way into mainline
<jhovold>
first commit IIRC
<dgilmore>
Thanks
<robclark>
strongtz[m]: if you have dts for yoga slim, that is something I'll be interested in when my yoga shows up in 2-3 weeks
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<steev>
Jasper[m]: my understanding is the linux one and the windows one are incompatible
<bluerise>
strongtz[m]: any source for it?
<bluerise>
I got the same one today, retail pick up
<steev>
strongtz[m]: so i'm assuming all the typical screaming about secureboot in r/linuxhardware is people repeating incorrect information?
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<\[m]1>
nothing in belgian lenovo webshop either (not that I have money lol but fyi)
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<steev>
robclark: oh this is so much worse. it's people all in a tizzy about the boot hole keys being blacklisted in the uefi, and that means, you can't disable secure boot or boot linux on it
<robclark>
kinda a moot point.. I mean other than folks who can contribute to bringup most folks should wait a little bit, unless that want to run windows+WSL in the mean time
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<robclark>
also, there has been a lot of tizzy around this launch, so meh.. for the time being we just need to figure out how to write a whole lot of dts, and then by the time 6.11 or 6.12 makes it's way into distros, things should be ok for folks who want to run linux but are not a kernel dev
<steev>
robclark: konradybcio: i *thought* that shawn started it, but that it was controlled by linaro
<steev>
just saw the backlog
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<robclark>
hopefully linaro can sort out transferring permissions to someone who is still active.. there are a lot of laptops and if we hope to keep up we need to get more organized about turning acpi dumps into dts
<steev>
robclark: i just noticed... the x1e thinkpad has the same keyboard layout as the yoga, so the fn and ctrl are the same on those two, and different from the x13s :D
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<steev>
i *really* wish they'd find a manufacturer who uses the same keyboard layout for every generation
<robclark>
I'm a bit miffed about the "wrong" layout (but otoh I got used to the opposite layout when I had my old xps13).. but I'll live, and if there is a bios option to switch them, all the better.. it is really just the switching back and forth btw diff layouts on diff laptops that I hate
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<broonie>
They're listening ot the customer complaints after every generation and changing the layout back! :P
<steev>
could be lol, no one tell them that the touchbar is super popular
<konradybcio>
sadly looks like some dell customers did
<steev>
huh, the dell can already be priced out with 64gb ram, 2tb and oled 2k display
<steev>
it does say anti-reflective, not matte, tho so...probably still reflective
<robclark>
but oof, not cheap with the options for ram or disk
<steev>
disk can be gotten for much cheaper (grab a 2tb 2242? 2230?) so 2199 i guess, but yeah, that price is eesh
<robclark>
yoga is I think a better deal atm.. although -78 vs -80
<robclark>
anyways, it is what I can afford and cheaper than what I payed for the x13s
<robclark>
plus lenovo seemed to be somewhat cool as far as posting linux-firmware bits, so I guess I can give them the benefit of the doubt
<robclark>
(for x13s that is)
<steev>
i'm definitely appreciative of what they've done so far
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<jenneron[m]>
steev: the question is will all of those be worked on in linux kernel?
<jenneron[m]>
or would i buy one and get a headache like with galaxy book s
<jenneron[m]>
which has the annoying EC without mainline driver and without anything close
<jenneron[m]>
even lenovo flex 5g that has a good dts is not in usable state
<steev>
in my and bamse defense... the flex5g kinda.... fell to the wayside when the thinkpad came out :(
<steev>
and i only cosplay as a kernel dev
<jenneron[m]>
i haven't used x13s
<jenneron[m]>
i don't know if it's better than flex 5g besides the obvious missing audio support
<steev>
i think the flex5g might beat it at battery life
<jenneron[m]>
and at deep discharging when you forget to connect charger :P
<jenneron[m]>
i even had to open my device a few times
<steev>
i don't recall if i opened my flex5g... the c630 i have, because we didn't know something about it and didn't know how to find it
<steev>
but i shake like an EOD expert on coffee break, so my pics sucked
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<steveej[m]>
<Jasper[m]> "Well try to turn on every wifi..." <- i got the x13s windows to connect by setting `ieee80211n=0` on the AP 🤷
<JensGlathe[m]>
So it's one mode that is "proprietary" / broken
<robclark>
jenneron[m]: with so many different x1 laptops that is a legit concern, because of the need for .dts per-laptop.. looks like lenovo yoga will get there, and I've see some interest in t14s here.. so lenovo seems like a safe bet.. the dev kit is probably also a safe bet... otherwise if you don't plan on working on .dts for your laptop, maybe hold on for a month or so and see where things go?
<jenneron[m]>
robclark: i can work with dts, but writing a driver for EC that uses 5 i2c buses is too much for me..
<jenneron[m]>
and i actually want to get a laptop with oled screen, not sure yet x86 or arm one
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<robclark>
yeah, idk in that regard... my hopes are that there are enough of these x1 laptops showing up that most didn't "differentiate" too much in these ways.. but hopefully we can get some acpi dumps
<JensGlathe[m]>
As long as x86 has this power draw, I'd stay away from it.
<jenneron[m]>
JensGlathe[m]: almost agree, but oled screen might be worth it
<jenneron[m]>
robclark: we can also get schematics sometimes
<jenneron[m]>
like for lenovo flex 5g and surface pro x
<freekurt[m]>
I just flashed the pmOS x13s community pre-built ISO onto a USB stick and booted from it. Very exciting! I'm curious if there are any pre-built images which use jhovold's kernel with all of the WIP branch stuff, though.
<jenneron[m]>
freekurt: it's the branch used in pmOS afaik
<JensGlathe[m]>
Mine usually do, but its not pmOS. Ubuntu, or Pop!_OS
<robclark>
jenneron[m]: lenovo has seemed to be pretty cool about supporting linux efforts.. idk about all the other OEM's (there are a lot this time), but kinda feel like lenovo is a safe bet
<jenneron[m]>
robclark: do they have oled screen?
<robclark>
hmm, tbh I wasn't paying attention to that part of the specs.. let's see
<jenneron[m]>
would be a good thing to consider if they make an option with 32
<freekurt[m]>
Jens Glathe: so this Ubuntu_Desktop_24.04_x13s_6.8.8.img.xz file you link to here should allow me to use the camera when i boot it from USB?
<JensGlathe[m]>
No. or, never tested.
<freekurt[m]>
Does the 6.8.8 mean Linux 6.8-rc-8?
<JensGlathe[m]>
No, its 6.8.8, at the time of building this image. They were hand-crafted, I don't have an automated build script for ubuntu (yet).
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<freekurt[m]>
Gotcha. Thanks.
<robclark>
jenneron[m]: I ordered mine with 32g/1tb.. part of why I need to wait 2-3 weeks instead of having it already
<jenneron[m]>
robclark: huh i see only 16 gb versions on lenovo.com
<robclark>
the memory and disk upgrade where both only ~$30-40 each so pretty reasonable
<robclark>
hmm, upgrade prices seem to have increased a bit since last week.. I guess that is all dynamic
<jenneron[m]>
sounds really good
<robclark>
screen might be too shiny for my taste.. idk.. that was a thing I liked about the x13s.. but I was mainly lookign for something reasonably priced with a7xx ;-)
<jenneron[m]>
would probably be 1600-1700 with taxes though..
<robclark>
if you aren't in a hurry, wait? I guess the prices will come down from time to time.. based on dell leak about x1 prices vs. intel, it seems like there is some room for discount
<robclark>
maybe the OEM's spent the delta in other areas.. but sounded like the cost of the cpu itself was closer to half compared to intel