robclark changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
<clover[m]>
<steev> "not using podman smh" <- Can you use Rodman with dockerhub?
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
<steev> "thats definitely odd" <- Hey man
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<steev>
clover[m]: yes you can pull from wherever
<steev>
hi bruno_rodriguezz[m]
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
steev: I'm good man, what are you up?
<steev>
at the moment, staring at perf data and wondering wtf i do with it since everything on the web seems to spit out errors about missing info
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
steev: You just have to be calm and see the reason why it is not working. Above all, be calm
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<steev>
oh i'm calm, and while i know the root-ish cause, i cannot see the reason why it is not working at all. it's something i've been tracking down for 7 months and i'm no closer than i was on the first day aside from knowing that either qemu is doing things wrong, or gcc is miscompiling things
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<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
<steev> "oh i'm calm, and while i know..." <- Hey! I don't know what all that is but you should seek out for materials or someone to help you on it.
<steev>
i am :)
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
steev: OK 👍
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
Where are you from bro?
<steev>
i don't like answering that when i just start talking to someone, sorry
<bruno_rodriguezz[m]>
It is cool, I'm from california BTW
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<JensGlathe[m]>
<steev> "does anyone happen to remember..." <- It doesn't work though. Did some testing by accident yesterday, it's a no. Could be masked / exacerbated by the 4 lanes dp change, though. You see the connnect / detect, but no video.
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<travmurav[m]>
Dantheman825: I wonder if it's one of the fun EC bugs/crashes that are fixed by killing the device power fully, since EC is always on
<travmurav[m]>
there is a nice hole on the bottom of the laptop that you can kill the battery with when you press a button behind
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<travmurav[m]>
as in, effectively unplug and replug the batter
<travmurav[m]>
and I think craftyguy had a couple of times when the trackpoint was stopping working randomly, also fixed by full power cycle...
<Dantheman825[m]>
So it’s like a hard restart button?
<travmurav[m]>
yeah
<Dantheman825[m]>
Is it kinda like the tiny novo button on some older Lenovo laptops?
<travmurav[m]>
dunno about older laptops but on x13s there is an unlabeled hole in the middle near a screw; and on my aspire1 there is also one with a label showing a battery being taken out
<travmurav[m]>
and I think on few more modern laptops it's also the case
<JensGlathe[m]>
"Hardware fix"
<steev>
JensGlathe[m]: i only have older stuff and it works here :/ like an apple adapter thingie but it's usb2/hdmi/usb-c(power only?)
<JensGlathe[m]>
I have tested on my display with type-c connector. It was a wild mix of works / doesn't, with different behaviour depending on direction. An I just wanted power and a working ethernet connection...
<JensGlathe[m]>
And as I said, accidentally. I wanted to make some tests focused on this, but not yet
<JensGlathe[m]>
Hmm the WLAN ringbuffer issue on the X13s with .41 too
<JensGlathe[m]>
* Hmm now the WLAN
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<konradybcio>
travmurav: yep both trackpoint and touchpad buttons seem to hard crash every now and then
<konradybcio>
ive previously "fixed" it by overdraining the battery
<konradybcio>
i'd guess the ec retains state unless the battery cuts of
<konradybcio>
f
<travmurav[m]>
konradybcio yeah I guess poking the hole button is easier than draining the battery :D
<JensGlathe[m]>
Contract negotiations, yes. In the end some money will change hands. Maybe a company will be acquired. That sort of thing.
<pstef_>
I can see Apple buying SiFive if ARM becomes too mainstream!
<JensGlathe[m]>
its more a question of changing the management of a company than some IP
<pstef_>
(sorry for the lame joke)
<robclark>
travmurav[m]: looks like x1 supports nested virt, according to anandtech
<robclark>
HdkR: "The Oryon CPU cores have hardware assists in place to improve x86 floating point performance. And to address what’s arguably the elephant in the room, Oryon also has hardware accommodations for x86’s unique memory store architecture"
<travmurav[m]>
robclark: yeah noticed that too, but I think the firmware I saw still does pure handover instead of giving virtualized EL2 with secure-launch
<travmurav[m]>
so I'm hoping one would be able to just run linux in el2 on those, especially if their official handover thingie works :D
<lollaritits[m]>
the T14s Gen 6 has linux support fully from the start right?
<konradybcio>
left
<lollaritits[m]>
what?
<konradybcio>
the opposite of right
<lollaritits[m]>
does it or does it not?
<steev>
it will not
<steev>
unless someone is holding off on a dts file
<lollaritits[m]>
so it will get it eventually
<steev>
which could be the case as it isn't shipped
<agl>
steev: TUXEDO tells me that it's Linux Notebook with Snapdragon X Elite will be on the market next year.
<agl>
steev: This year not!
<JensGlathe[m]>
okay but they will have a dts
<steev>
that doesn't surprise me
<agl>
JensGlathe[m]: I think so.
<JensGlathe[m]>
and this is good news
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<agl>
steev: The artikel about ARM and Qualcomm is very interesting.
<agl>
steev:
<agl>
Let's see what comes out in the court hearing in December 2024. So whether all Snapdragon X Elite notebooks have to be scrapped.
<pstef_>
do you imagine that if you buy one, the police will come with a search warrant and take the laptop?
<Jasper[m]>
I honestly hope framework can get a mainboard together
<Jasper[m]>
Given that Tuxedo can, I have a slive rof hope
<Jasper[m]>
s/slive/sliver/, s/rof/of/
<robclark>
pstef_: lol
<steev>
ILLEGAL LAPTOP
<agl>
steev: The author of the article at heise.de says that what ARM is asking for (to kill all snapdragon X Elite notebooks) is pretty unrealistic. It rather serves to put pressure on Qualcomm to push through a different licensing so that ARM makes more sales.
<lollaritits[m]>
i think if it was a huge issue more than heise would cover it
<lollaritits[m]>
not to hate on heise but they are not the biggest one
<steev>
yeah, i know, it's what they've been pushing for since the beginning. nothing is gonna happen
<lollaritits[m]>
and that shit is definitly going viral
<lollaritits[m]>
also might be some weird german thing again
<lollaritits[m]>
like how oneplus is banned there now
<lollaritits[m]>
because heise is a german site in the end
<konradybcio>
for all we know it may be a paid campaign.. or somebody with a grudge
<agl>
lollaritits[m]: OnePlus is banned in Germany? I have a OnePlus cell phone.
<lollaritits[m]>
from selling
<lollaritits[m]>
sorry
* agl
is from German<
<agl>
lollaritits[m]: I have buyed last year the OnePlus cell phone.
<agl>
lollaritits[m]: Or is this since a short time?
<lollaritits[m]>
agl: it was for a while
<lollaritits[m]>
because of a patent dispute with nokia
<konradybcio>
worst case scenario, you are surrounded by countries that still sell these phones and you can perform some.. tourism
<lollaritits[m]>
but they seem to be up again
<lollaritits[m]>
go to Eupen
<lollaritits[m]>
still have german stores
<agl>
Eupen?
<lollaritits[m]>
few Kilometers from Aachen in Belgium
<agl>
ah
<lollaritits[m]>
few euros with Bahncard 100 or Deutschlandticket
<robclark>
konradybcio: yeah, I guess intel or some intel fanboi dug up the years old news about qc/arm lawsuit
<agl>
lollaritits[m]: I love OnePlus cell phones
<lollaritits[m]>
cant wait for not having to use Bahncard 100 anymore and just get Interrail
<lollaritits[m]>
agl: im more on the google side
<mynery[m]>
anybody knows if there is a trick in getting the nixos iso running? the default iso seems to be missing the correct dtb and kernel parameters, but i haven't yet found a way to modify them on the stick, since the iso is not a hybrid iso for some reason
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<steev>
i'm not familiar but i do know there are other nixos users in here
<HdkR>
robclark: The x86 emulation features are AFP and LRCPC1/2. Same things as Cortex, nothing really unexpected there.
<HdkR>
Oh and I guess LSE2, someone might think that significantly helps x86 emulation
<robclark>
hmm, the anandtech writeup claims "Oryon also has hardware accommodations for x86’s unique memory store architecture – something that’s widely considered to be one of Apple’s key advancements in achieving high x86 emulation performance on their own silicon."
<robclark>
and it does presumably reading the system cfg regs only reports things that the kernel knows about, which wouldn't include vendor custom things?
<HdkR>
Yea, LRCPC is for emulating the x86 memory model
<HdkR>
It's kind of a funny joke with its performance
<robclark>
hmm, afaict it adds support for some new load/store instructions? Is there some good definition of these syscfg fields?
<HdkR>
Yea, it adds a bunch of load instructions specifically. LRCPC3 (which is hecking new and nothing supports) adds some loads and stores.
<HdkR>
I don't know anything about syscfg things
<robclark>
syscfg, I mean just wantever the name(s) of these system regs that define what features are supported
<robclark>
I can find some defn in individual cortex-xyz docs, but it only defines the value that that particular core implemented, rather than the range of values
<HdkR>
Oh, uh lemme get the name, they're all silly
<robclark>
arm has an .. interesting bitfield/reg naming convention
<HdkR>
ID_AA64ISAR1_EL1 has the LRCPC field, ID_AA64MMFR1_EL1 has the AFP field
<robclark>
like in smmu, RNW bit means the fault is a "Read Not Write"
<HdkR>
LRCPC field can be 0, 1, 2, 3. AFP field can only be 0 or 1.
<robclark>
looks like FEAT_LRCPC2 is required by armv8.4+
<HdkR>
Yea, and AFP is v8.7+
<HdkR>
I love that this article wrote "hardware accommodations" three times, a little bit of flapping :D
<robclark>
I guess the alternative is that they are brute-force app-profile support to know when TSO emu is needed.. or maybe using crash telemetry to automate app-profile generation?
<HdkR>
Should show up pretty easily, most things that break without TSO emulation will crash. So randomly toggling 1% of your users to disable it and hoping for a crash would still give a lot of telemetry
<robclark>
yeah.. not sure what sorta crash infra MS has.. but if you do have that, then a/b experiments would be easy
<JensGlathe[m]>
Okay it may solve the problem but its better to communicate it openly, no?
<HdkR>
Not sure if that was a quote response or something. Not sure what it is responding to.
<Jasper[m]>
HdkR: The message before. Jens means communicating that some app is being started without the hardware optimizaions
<Jasper[m]>
s/optimizaions/optimizations/
<HdkR>
ah
<HdkR>
Probably needs to end up in the event log, otherwise you'd be hitting thousands of those messages a day :D