ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<nephele_xmpp> begasus?
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<Begasus[m]> nephele_xmpp?
<Begasus[m]> just booted up
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<Begasus> morning peeps
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<dovsienko> waddlesplash: thank you for fixing RAMFS again
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/050876b3f98c...c9adfd8c152a
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL c9adfd8 - tomli: recipe cleanups. (#11333)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-4/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/c9adfd8c152a...573f373cc21a
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 573f373 - flake8: drop the pip installable flake8 recipe and its dependencies. (#11334)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/573f373cc21a...c22b399298f0
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL c22b399 - gitpython: minor cleanups, drop 3.9 package. (#11335)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/c22b399298f0...28ad738ea199
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 28ad738 - gitdb: minor cleanups, drop 3.9 package. (#11336)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/28ad738ea199...2ff80e03cee8
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 2ff80e0 - pytest: set 3.10 as the default version. (#11337)
<Begasus> someone is cleaning up python things :)
<nephele_xmpp> begasus: you asked something about renga
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<Begasus> ah, someone was talking about some native implimentation for matrix, was kinda joking with a suggestion to add support for it in Renga :)
<PulkoMandy> No, the goal of Renga is to use all features in xmpp, not to make yet another client implementing the bare minimum of every chat protocol
<Begasus> hence the "joking" part PulkoMandy :) my bad
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<nephele_laptop> Begasus: you can use Chat-O-Matic for a "lowest common denomnator" chat client
<nephele_laptop> but for me anyway, i just don't like matrix. I think it is a badly designed protocol which solves the problem of live messaging pretty badly
<nephele_laptop> xmpp has a much simpler design in some parts, and it shows. In matrix rooms are distributed, in theory they can be "online" when one server is offline. In practice however if the big server matrix.org goes down it takes down all other rooms with it, (cus 80% or more users are on it)
<nephele_laptop> and it leads to hard to debug situations where you don't know if everyone in the room even got your message.
<nephele_laptop> In xmpp on the other hand a room is on one server (like in irc) and you can be sure you are joined there, or are not joined there
<nephele_laptop> this far, from a UX standpoint, the only redeeming quality i've had with matrix is that when opening a chat client the inital join is much nicer, more like a one-off operation. while in xmpp it keeps sending messages for quite some time. And it sometimes is really annoying and longwinded
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<nephele_laptop> hi janking
<janking> hi
<nephele_laptop> Begasus: I invested a lot more into matrix before I got into xmpp, for me, at this point, I will support matrix enough that some client is available to chat with the people who insist on using matrix, but not more :)
<Begasus> having said that nephele_laptop, there is still a market out there for matrix clients :)
<nephele_laptop> I think one well supported marix client in haikudepot should be enough tbh
<nephele_laptop> I guess... but in the end 4 badly supported clients are still worse than one properly working one
<nephele_laptop> and matrix has made it clear they don't care that much about backwards compat, so it's just playing catchup
<Begasus> haven't checked on quaternion(?) for a long time
<Begasus> Nheko and NeoChat current versions should still be good enough for now
<nephele_laptop> for quaternion for example it has issues because of the qt5->q6 move, which are kind of pointless
<nephele_laptop> nheko is broken in the repo
<Begasus> it is?
<nephele_laptop> and neochat does not work properly
<nephele_laptop> yes, it does not declare needed libraries
<nephele_laptop> and i am certainly too lazy to manually install stuff and then risk it lingering
<Begasus> is there an issue reported?
<Begasus> heh
<nephele_laptop> not by me
<nephele_laptop> unless you consider this a report :P
<nephele_laptop> I should make you a tool with which you can simulate starting apps on a minimum or release profile
<Begasus[m]> nheko, revbump for rebuild (spdlog/qt6/ssl3) #11186 last change done after the opened issue in Oktober
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<nephele_laptop> 2gb of ram... with dvd. well, the "try" mode could get a "install in ram" option for software. But for the ported apps with countless deps that doesn't help much
<Begasus[m]> Still launching OK (Nheko) here :)
<Begasus[m]> Even with those fancy avatar icons :P
<nephele_laptop> bbl
<Begasus[m]> ok, need to checkup on Dolphin ..
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<Begasus> still good :)
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<janking> hi
<Hanicef[m]> <nephele_laptop> "xmpp has a much simpler design..." <- That's not really the protocol's fault per-se, but yes, the heavy reliance on matrix.org is a massive issue
<nephele_xmpp> don't use matrix replies in bridged rooms
<Hanicef[m]> But the protocol itself is just fine. The base specification is also pretty simple and you don't have to support all features (even the basic chat mechanism is optional, but it makes for a pretty useless matrix client without it)
<Hanicef[m]> Is there a problem with bridging when replying?
<nephele_laptop> Yes, matrixes fallback is crap
<nephele_laptop> Here is what you wrote: "nephele_laptop> "xmpp has a much simpler design..." <- That's not really the protocol's fault per-se, but yes, the heavy reliance on matrix.org is a massive issue"
<nephele_laptop> I highly doubt you wanted to quote that part of my message
<Hanicef[m]> Nope, didn't know that, thanks for the heads up
<nephele_laptop> Anyway, I know how matrix works. I have a room full of minges ;) but besides that I don't think the "eventually consistent git-like tree" model solves any problems
<nephele_laptop> and in my experience I've only seen it cause problems
<nephele_laptop> especially the high-and-mighty state resets
<nephele_laptop> add to that that mostly irrelevant data like nick display changes has to be kept in the auth (validation) chain *for ever* to validate messages
<nephele_laptop> because they are state events
<Hanicef[m]> Yeah, it's the worst of two worlds, unfortunately
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<nephele_laptop> and the state none-state events led to intersting problems too. For example I used to be able to set the topic in *any* matrix room
<nephele_laptop> because a) permissions for sending events were not checked for non-state events
<Begasus> it's a good thing that in NeoChat you don't get a notice for every in or out event like in Nheko
<nephele_laptop> and b) clients *also* did not validate if an event, that has to be a state event, was actually a state event
<Hanicef[m]> You're talking server complexity, right?
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<nephele_laptop> and would happily accept m.room.topic send by my client in any roomt
<Hanicef[m]> @Begasus that can be configured on your account, since it's push notifications
<Hanicef[m]> I've used nheko and i haven't ran into that issue after setting notifications to mentions only
<Begasus> checking on host ...
<nephele_xmpp> also, on a side note Renga needs like 1/10th the ressources of quaternion on haiku. But that is probably also because of qt
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<Begasus> Dolphin 24.08.3 still good :)
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<Begasus> takes longer to build a matrix client then a filebrowser :P
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<phschafft> that holds true, even if the file browser features local AI assisted text-to-speach previews of videos.
* phschafft now somehow has a robotic voice in head saying something 'And then they did... WHAT? No! I\'m outta her\'!'
<Begasus> heh
<Begasus> holds true though (that robotic voice and text-to-speech) :)
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<dovsienko> hello all
<dovsienko> I noticed you discuss fonts and layouts quite a bit. does anyone know why Wireshark hex dump panel is not using a fixed-width font?
<Begasus> Hi dovsienko
* Begasus hasn't really checked out Wereshark
<dovsienko> (if you start a capture or open an existing .pcap file, this is the panel in the bottom-left quarter of Wireshark window)
<dovsienko> the contents looks very much like the output of "hd", with the added feature of highlighting the bytes you select in the network protocol dissector panel to the right
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<dovsienko> hex dumps look messy if rendered using a proportional font
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<nephele_laptop> dovsienko: wireshark is what? a qt app?
<nephele_laptop> it could just be a problem in the port
<dovsienko> nephele_laptop: it seems to use Qt, yes. my GUI API skills are too outdated to tell the cause
<nephele_laptop> check qt settings for a start
<dovsienko> FWIW, the Linux version uses a monospace font for all three panels
<nephele_laptop> anyhow, after that "just" open a bug report on haikuports after testing against linux that that uses a monospace font
<nephele_laptop> darn, you were faster than my typing ;)
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<dovsienko> alright, if no other suggestions emerge anytime soon, let's do that today
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<phschafft> wereshark, haha!
<Begasus> hmmm
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<nephele_xmpp> Debian will drop 32bit x86 too... huh
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<dalme> Everything is going according to plan nephele_xmpp
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<dalme> Could someone remember me how to trigger a panic from userspace? I can't recall
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<dovsienko> phschafft: ?
<phschafft> hm?
<nephele_xmpp> dalme: there is some shortcut and also a binary you can call from terminal
<nephele_xmpp> alt sysreg s or something
<nephele_xmpp> what do you mean with according to plan? I just got a 32bit laptop. And now debian won't even support it anymore in their next version
<nephele_xmpp> i guess should invest into haiku running great on it
<dalme> nephele_xmpp: I mean that's one less competitor for Haiku. But I was joking actually.
<dalme> What do you mean by shortcut? Wasn't there some function I could call for that?
<dovsienko> phschafft: what's funny about Wireshark?
<phschafft> the typo, Wereshark ;)
<phschafft> as in Werewolf.
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<Begasus[m]> k, need a fresh boot to build kate ...
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<Begasus[m]> 27 requirements dropped after doing some cleaning/fixing on the frameworks :)
<phschafft> :))
<phschafft> always good when you can drop dependencies.
<Begasus[m]> some moved as a requirement for the top level framework :)
<Begasus[m]> so they are not really gone, just not required for Kate itself
<Begasus[m]> 2 of them became kinda obsolete
* phschafft nods.
<Begasus[m]> just can't get knewstuff to play nice with kattica :P
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<OscarL> dalme: KernelExport.h has "panic()".
<Begasus> Hi OscarL!
<OscarL> Hello Begasus :-)
<phschafft> don't panic.
<Begasus> So far so good :) https://0x0.st/XkJL.png
<phschafft> but they don't do the fancy planets anymore I think.
<OscarL> phschafft: one might panic anyway, depending on what is_computer_on_fire() returns.
<OscarL> dalme: the shortcut nephele_xmpp was mentioning is to invoke KDL manually. "Alt+SysRq+d"
<OscarL> Begasus: when you finish with the KDE stuff... maybe you can take a look at Sigil? :-D. Would be nice to switch it to Python 3.10, it might require updating Sigil itself.
<phschafft> hm.
<phschafft> I just wrote some code. and it seems to work. I'm confused.
<OscarL> (latest version is 2.3.1, we have 0.9.14. Kinda too "Qt" for my taste :-P)
<Begasus[m]> hmm
<Begasus[m]> think we tackled that a while back OscarL?
<OscarL> last commit on sigil... March 2023.
<Begasus[m]> for KDE, 2 open MR remain so far for the frameworks, it's an ongoing process, just need to pull me away from it when there is a need :D
<OscarL> Maybe we talked about it?
<Begasus[m]> I know I did builds for it with python3.10, probably still have it stashed in the backup (I hope)
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<OscarL> Ah, that would be good. If it just builds with 3.10, then the update can wait.
<nephele_xmpp> dalme: shortcut as in key combination
<nephele_xmpp> the function (on the cli) also exists but those are two different ways to open the kernel debugger
<Begasus[m]> OscarL our version in the depot is ancient!! :P
<OscarL> yeah.
<OscarL> my intention is to move as much things as possible to just Python 3.10.
<Begasus[m]> subpackages for python are good as they are for sigil?
<OscarL> Problem is... if I/we start updating too many things in the process... it never ends :-D
<Begasus[m]> yeah, good idea anyway
<Begasus[m]> hm libQt5WebKitWidgets probably can't be moved to Qt6
<OscarL> (so my intention at least is do the moves with the least ammount of updates as possible)
<OscarL> (otherwise I get overwhelmed/annoyed by the dependencies-explosion :-P)
<Begasus[m]> just let me run a quick check on our current version
<OscarL> BTW, the PR for removing the old cython .recipe should be pretty safe to merge (we only have 3.0.10 on the repos).
<Begasus> checking ...
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/2ff80e03cee8...8194bd515952
<Begasus[m]> done
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 8194bd5 - cython: drop old recipe. (#11314)
<OscarL> thanks
<Begasus> np, I just point them over to you if ... :)
<OscarL> mmm, internet working badly again (hope it doesn't cuts off for almost a week again).
<Begasus> yeah, was glad to see at least the comments on github from you :)
<OscarL> thanks :-)
<Begasus> if I'm offline for a week, I'm probably in a clinick without wifi :P
<OscarL> heh :-)
<Begasus> or in rehab for Haiku lol
<OscarL> Man... those Radxa X4 little SBCs look so sweet! (not to mention that double the performance of my fastest machine).
<Begasus> no idea :)
<nephele_xmpp> tried to install sims2, whole system broke because linux put 40GB worth of logfiles on a 80GB disk and linux doesnt do well in no disk space situations.... oof
<Begasus> maybe I should add the pythonPackage variable to Sigil? could ease up on evnt update
<Begasus> heh
<Begasus> OscarL https://bpa.st/5GIQ
<OscarL> looks pretty good Begasus!
<Begasus> launches fine, but don't have an ebook at hand (all test files are still on the other partition) :)
<OscarL> some sample files, just in case: https://github.com/IDPF/epub3-samples/releases
<Begasus> python errors on a local one from Okular sources
<OscarL> :-(
<OscarL> uff... "mozc" uses siz_python39. ~43 MB tarball :-(
<OscarL> s/siz_/six_/
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<OscarL> welp, time to stress-test my RAMFS haikuport setup, I guess :-D
<Begasus> ok, after clicking away the error messages atleast the epub opens
<Begasus> but yeah, some work needed before we could switch there :(
<OscarL> ok, thanks for trying!
<Begasus> np
<OscarL> Begasus: does this makes sense to you? ("GYP_DEFINES" not used elsewhere): https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/app-i18n/mozc/mozc-2.26.4451.1.recipe#L57
<OscarL> ah... I see it now.
<OscarL> those "\" confused me :-)
<Begasus[m]> been way too long for that :)
<Begasus> now what did I wanted to check again for KDE ...
<Begasus> hmmm ... maybe should do plasmatube
* phschafft get's his high voltage source ready and heated up.
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<dalme> OscarL: The stuff on KernelExport.h can't be called from userspace AFAIK. But I'm sure there was a system call or something you could use to trigger it from userspace
<OscarL> dalme: see how the "kernel_debugger" cli app does it?
<OscarL> (getting dial-up download speeds here :-/, pages load in slow motion :-D)
<dalme> OscarL: _kern_kernel_debugger(message) is the way. Thanks!
<OscarL> np!
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<OscarL> Begasus: mmm, ran "hp -G mozc", turns out I need to add a one-line patch to avoid a build failure with Python 3.10 :-D
<OscarL> mmm, and I might need to add more RAM too :-/
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<Begasus> go for it OscarL :)
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<BrunoSpr> hello all
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<BrunoSpr> it would be nice to have Zsnes and BeSnes 32bit on HaikuDepot. It is still not there!?
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<Begasus> tsss ..
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/8194bd515952...a056eb54ab4f
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] al-popa a056eb5 - CLISP: Upstream updates, add modules, one recipe for several packages (#11327)
<OscarL> and, ran out of ram at object [676/693] :-(
<Begasus[m]> :(
<OscarL> now trying to see if I can regain control of the OS, or will need to force-reboot :-)
<Begasus[m]> push to a branch, can see if I can squize it in here :)
<OscarL> how do I kill a team from KDL?
<Begasus[m]> hit the power button?
<Begasus[m]> this "hmmmmm" is becomming a thing here :P
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<OscarL> why there's "suspend/resume <team>", but not "kill <team>" ?
<OscarL> and now I cannot even re-ented KDL :-(.
<Begasus[m]> I you don't know, I certanly won't :)
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<OscarL> was going nuts because hp kept telling me that there was no "mozc_x86" on the repo. Turns out I had just rebooted into 64 bits after that KDL trip :-)
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<Begasus[m]> lol OscarL
<Begasus[m]> had it in reverse the other day on 32bit, trying without the _x86 :)
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<OscarL> getting close to OOM again, this time at object [686/693] :-/. This thing takes a lot of RAM/CPU to link.
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<OscarL-32> last try... bare-metal with 8 GB.
<OscarL-32> same as before... seems it gets stuck at "[686/693] CXX obj/session/session_handler.session_handler.o" :-(
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<OscarL-32> one cpu core at 100%, RAM usage remains constant.
<Begasus> still haven't seen a branch :P
<Begasus> you moved to the dark side (codeberg) too? :P
<OscarL-32> have an account and at least one private repo there, yes.
<Begasus> same here :)
<Begasus> and gitlab/invent/ ... :)
<Begasus> ah SF also
<Begasus> reminds me to check TP ...
<OscarL-32> seems the worst part of the compilation finally ended! (only to fail later on because it seems ir requires gcc2 too on x86_32... and I had removed that as part of my "cleanups" :-D)
<Begasus> whoops :)
<OscarL-32> good guy ninja picked up the build without redoing all the previous work. Nice. Let's see if this ends in a valid .hpkg now.
<OscarL-32> "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc'" :-(
<Begasus> bugger
<Begasus> meanwhile: grabbing tuxpaint-0.9.34-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Share/haikuports/packages/tuxpaint-0.9.34-1-x86_64.hpkg :)
<OscarL-32> crashed again on the same place. No idea what else I can do.
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-3/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/a056eb54ab4f...3362cefbe66e
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 3362cef - tuxpaint and friends, bump version (#11338)
<Begasus> did it work out ok on 64bit?
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<OscarL> this SSD boot fast :-)
<OscarL> (except under VMWare... it takes almost 2 minutes there, for some reason)
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