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<Begasus[m]>
g'moning peeps
<erysdren>
morning Begasus
<Begasus[m]>
hi there erysdren :)
<Begasus[m]>
PR from phoudin ... that has been long time ago, nice to see he's still around
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<msh356>
hi
<msh356>
i am installed haiku on old laptop, but why there so small repos? (x86 installation)
<msh356>
anyone here?
<erysdren>
hi
<erysdren>
im here msh356
<msh356>
so i installed haiku on samsung np-r50 (aka samsung r50-001)
<msh356>
i used haiku before (x64 installation)
<msh356>
and there was big repos
<msh356>
but in x86 i cant see telegram, epiphany and etc
<msh356>
its normal??
<erysdren>
yeah, unfortunately not everything is compiled for pure x86 if i recall correctly
<erysdren>
maybe Begasus can help
<msh356>
ok
<msh356>
webpositive supports javascript?
<erysdren>
somewhat yes... but it's not perfect
<msh356>
i try to use telegram web
<msh356>
SSL peer certificate or SSL remote key was not OK. and this is on ALL sites
<msh356>
i am connected to internet by wifi
<erysdren>
is Falkon browser available for x86? i had better luck with that on x64
<erysdren>
it could load more web-app stuff, unlike WebPositive
<msh356>
im trying to find
<msh356>
yes i found it
<msh356>
on my main pc i using qutebrowser
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<msh356>
also i need to setup time. my cmos battery is low and every power off resets time to 01.01.2005 00:00. haiku uses this time. how to get utc+3 time?
<Begasus[m]>
erysdren: help with what?
<msh356>
clock
<Begasus[m]>
I'm not seeing messages from msh ?
<msh356>
my time every power off resets to 01.01.2005 00:00. haiku uses this time
<msh356>
its 08:04 at my region now but for haiku its 00:53
<Begasus[m]>
did you try syncing in time preferences?
<msh356>
no im new to haiku and dont set up haiku properly
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<Begasus>
k, popping in on IRC
<Begasus>
msh356 you should see the clock in Deskbar (menu)
<Begasus>
rightclick and open "Time preferences"
<msh356>
im synced and its 5:05 now. but its +0 time, i need +3. i cant find parameter for it
<Begasus>
see if your time zone is corrently set
<Begasus>
correctly*
<msh356>
thx it synchronized correctly
<Begasus>
+1 :)
<Begasus>
msh356, apps missing on 32bit (x86) are due to some needing more RAM which 32bit can't handle
<msh356>
4gb ram limit?
<Begasus>
you can use more on "runtime" but building those fails around that area with oom
<msh356>
artifacts aaa, i cant see anything
<msh356>
bye i need to go
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<erysdren>
rip
<Begasus>
that's the second person for whom I couldn't see messages popping up in matrix
<Begasus>
heh
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<Viking667>
eeek. Seems I'd disconnected without knowing.
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<Begasus[m]>
wb then Viking667 :)
<Viking667>
ty. I'm just trying to bring Element back up after a long absence.
<nekobot>
• Begasus (41c6b9c6): gnuchess, bump to version 6.2.9 (#12134)
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<brickviking[m]>
pinging, just to check Element works here.
<Viking667>
yay - welcome.
<Begasus[m]>
it works! :)
<brickviking[m]>
Yah. I had to run the gauntlet of "Oh dear, you want to recover your password and remove all your current encryption keys? lol, sucker!!!"
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<Begasus[m]>
biab
<brickviking[m]>
Now I'm just twiddling to make it look slightly more like an old-school IRC client from days gone by.
<Begasus[m]>
re
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<Begasus[m]>
64bit buildmaster still down?
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<nekobot>
• phoudoin (061c9e17): Typst new typesetting system port (#12133)
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<phschafft>
Morning.
<Begasus[m]>
morning phschafft
<phschafft>
all good?
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<Begasus[m]>
yeah, can't complain
<Begasus[m]>
leg a bit sore after yesterdays evening chores at the dogschool :)
<phschafft>
I can feel you.
<Begasus[m]>
also sore leg? ;)
<phschafft>
donkey day.
<phschafft>
we also visited a cemetery I had not been before. asked some locals where the donkey parking spaces are. got some strange looks.
<Begasus[m]>
I can imagine :) not the average day question :)
<phschafft>
'guess anywhere you like' and 'not a car nor a dog, so guess you can take him in?'
<Begasus[m]>
that's not fair! :P if a dog can't enter a donkey shouldn't too :)
<phschafft>
I found that many cemeteries only have car parking. nothing else.
<phschafft>
I really don't understand why that is the case.
<phschafft>
given the common clientele one would expect other modes of transport being more supported.
<phschafft>
the next iteration would be drive in? ;)
<Begasus[m]>
lol
<Begasus[m]>
I can imagine the face of the one behind the window when you pull up :)
<Begasus[m]>
afk for a bit
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
I guess this chat should have been taken place in #haiku-offtopic to begin with ;) (everyone join! ;)
<erysdren>
:p
<phschafft>
;)
<brickviking[m]>
pschafft: here on Matrix, or over on IRC?
* brickviking[m]
hopes the temperature in the computer room gets above 20°C. Heading into winter, and given temperatures here last year, I'm not looking forward to another year like it. I jokingly said to zoombuggy that I should run lots of compile jobs over winter.
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<erysdren>
hola OscarL
<OscarL>
Hola erysdren, buen día. :-)
* OscarL
will try, sleepily, to make some coffee.
<brickviking[m]>
oh no! this isn't going to go well. Here, would you like my titanium helmet for a mug?
* OscarL
feels like he needs to link to that everytime instead of writting: "I'm drinking mate". Which sounds ambiguous (did he forgor a comma, or an exclamation mark?)... even if true on both senses on occasion.
<phschafft>
brickviking[m]: here on IRC.
<OscarL>
Oh, Philippe is "back"! Nice.
<Viking667>
Ah, of course.
<Viking667>
yay. Temp is above 20°C in the room for the first time today.
<OscarL>
(Wonder if in a few more years the "old gang" will also come back... after they get tired of that "wife, kids, work, life" side-track :-P)
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<Begasus[m]>
Hola OscarL
<OscarL>
Hola Begasus[m] :-)
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: might be better to merge the python3.10 32-bits fix before the 64 bits builder gets restarted (so both 32 and 64 bits gets built from the same recipe... I didn't changed REVISION on the latest PR)
<nekobot>
• Begasus (ebdb15ae): mpvqt, bump to version 1.1.0 (#12135)
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<Viking667>
Just how large are some of the latest db dumps for wikipedia? I can't imagine they'd be less than a few hundred GB at minimum of compressed tarballs.
<gordonjcp>
pages-articles-multistream.xml.bz2 – Current revisions only, no talk or user pages; this is probably what you want, and is over 19 GB compressed (expands to over 86 GB when decompressed).
<gordonjcp>
I actually had a copy of that about 20 years ago on a laptop, when it was about 1GB
<Viking667>
hm, smaller than I thought. Still far too large for my current machine. This might work on zoombuggy's machine, but I'd rather not hold that much space to "ransom", as such.
<Viking667>
Is that one language, or all available languages?
<gordonjcp>
tenner a month's worth of VPS ;-)
<gordonjcp>
that's for the English language version
<gordonjcp>
I'd expect that's the largest
<Viking667>
mmm.
<OscarL>
Viking667: full en, with pictures (not videos), from late 2024 data, around 100 GiB in zim format (for use with kiwix). The xml dump are much smaller.
<OscarL>
full en as in... English language version.
<Viking667>
heh. Trying to render xml in a modern browser, .... never done it.
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<Viking667>
Oh yes, the last time I tried doing it, I got the parse tree, and not much else.
<matthewcroughan1>
<Viking667> "heh. Trying to render xml in a..." <- There's a website a friend made based entirely on XML, that still renders nicely in firefox/chrome, but not webpositive
<OscarL>
I think Phillippe is missreading the builder's log. typst status is just "pending". (not seenig where he sees it being "built").
<OscarL>
perhaps the "resulting packages" bit made him think there were completed already (still under the "Scheduled" section though). Meh... 64 bits builder still need a kick on the PSU anyway :-P
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: typst 32 bits build failed again... "rustc-LLVM ERROR: out of memory" :-(
<Begasus[m]>
figures .... rust :(
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<Begasus[m]>
hi jmairboeck
<jmairboeck>
hi Begasus[m]
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: guess that's the end for typst on 32bit :)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: unless someone knows enough rust to perform some incantations / build-tricks... seems so.
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<OscarL>
cargo, pip, npm, etc... bazillion dependencies abound. And I used to dislike having to install one or two custom components as dependencies when building stuff in Delphi, LOL.
<Begasus[m]>
where is nielx when you need an update on rust? ;)
<Begasus[m]>
well "need", not that much ...
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<matthewcroughan1>
Is there a way to tell jam to not do downloads when bootstrapping?
<OscarL>
./configure --no-downloads
<OscarL>
double check exact option name with "./configure --help"
<matthewcroughan1>
That's not right
<matthewcroughan1>
I'm already passing that, and that prevents downloading during the ./configure, but then after ./configure is done you need to run jam -q @bootstrap-raw
<matthewcroughan1>
So I'm asking how to do a similar thing with jam. The ./configure is already done and over.
<OscarL>
while you wait for someone with more of a clue than me... try grepping under the "build" dir for calls to wget, perhaps?
<OscarL>
I only see it inside a DownloadLocatedFile1 action (and that's conditional to HAIKU_NO_DOWNLOADS variable)
<matthewcroughan1>
And this is just a normal old environment variable?
<matthewcroughan1>
Is setting it to 1 sufficient?
<matthewcroughan1>
thank you btw
<OscarL>
"if $(HAIKU_NO_DOWNLOADS) = 1 {"
<OscarL>
... where do you set it... I would assume that's what --no-downloads sets. I know one can use some custom config file where you could set custom vars, but I have never used that.
<OscarL>
There's a "UserBuildConfig.sample" under build/jam.
<OscarL>
but you're trying a boostrap, so no idea what applies and what doesn't in that case.
<matthewcroughan1>
I set HAIKU_NO_DOWNLOADS=1 in the environment, and it does seem to still download stuff
<matthewcroughan1>
> It is important that you build outside the tree, as otherwise the build will fail!
<matthewcroughan1>
Am I failing to observe this rule of building outside the tree? How would I know?
<matthewcroughan1>
Is this how it fails?
<nephele>
did you create a directory in the source tree?
<nephele>
if not you aren't building inside the tree
<matthewcroughan1>
I did make a directory called generated.myarch and then cd'd into it
<matthewcroughan1>
and then run ../configure
<nephele>
That is inside the tree, then
<nephele>
make a directory *next* to the sources
<nephele>
not inside them
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: you said: "why exactly it's trying to download anything when everything is already available in the --bootstrap paths"....
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<OscarL>
if by "bootstrap paths" you mean paths to haikuporter tool, and path to the haikuport.cross repo... that still doesn't includes the .hpkg that tool will create.
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<matthewcroughan1>
yes, the bootstrap paths contain directories which contain recipes, which should be everything
<OscarL>
a recipe is not a .hpkg
<matthewcroughan1>
but apparently these recipes then need to fetch more, and there's no convenient way to fetch them outside of jam
<OscarL>
recipe != cake
<matthewcroughan1>
No, makes sense. But this is going to be hard for me now.
<OscarL>
that's why you see haikuporter wanting to download the ingredients (SOURCE_URI), to bake the cake (gcc_bootstrap[...].hpkg, for example).
<matthewcroughan1>
Unless there is a way to fetch all the sources for haikuports.cross recipes, in a single command, without going through the monolithic build process of jam
<matthewcroughan1>
like if I could just jam fetch that would be great, but like a lot of build tools it wants to keep all data to itself and happen in one linear process
<nephele>
You can just tell it to build smaller targets
<nephele>
it's not as monolithic as you think...
<nephele>
but this requires knowledge of how it works :)
<matthewcroughan1>
nephele: I don't want to build them. I want it to fetch source code from the internet and put it into a directory.
<matthewcroughan1>
I.e separating the building, and the fetching.
<matthewcroughan1>
This is a normal thing to want and do in build systems. I hope I am not going to have to use grep, sed and awk to read the ad-hoc recipe format, extract the rev/url, and use wget myself.
<matthewcroughan1>
You'll notice most of what you do with BSD, you can fetch the sources, get on a plane, and start building, without the need to download more later.
<matthewcroughan1>
but this muddles the building and the fetching up into one, so that you depend on the internet at all times
<matthewcroughan1>
I would like to find a way to fetch all the recipe's inputs without the need to build the outputs at the same time. If there is no way to have existing tooling do that, then I'm just gonna have to use grep, sed, awk, to parse the recipe files and get it done in this custom/hacky way
<OscarL>
haikuporter -b downloads, and unpacks sources, without building. it does lacks a only-do-the-download step sadly.
<nephele>
Yes... fetching a file is also a *build target*
<OscarL>
s/step/option/
<matthewcroughan1>
OscarL: How does it lack it, when you just tolld me how to do it?
<matthewcroughan1>
You're saying haikuporter -b downloads will avoid building right?
<nephele>
because it extracts the source
<OscarL>
because it does more than just downloading... it also unpacks, inits a git repo, and patches sources.
<nephele>
there is no option that downloads only but not unpack it
<OscarL>
use -Gb to avoid the creation of a "work-dir" git.
<OscarL>
-G
<matthewcroughan1>
hehe, let's hope the unpacking is reproducible then
<matthewcroughan1>
I'll let you know if it's not, because my build system will find hash mismatches
<matthewcroughan1>
Thank you for the help
<OscarL>
good luck :-)
<matthewcroughan1>
FWIW it would be really really fantastic if all the information in the recipes was in a JSON/TOML format, because then you could just parse the rev/url and fetch things without unpacking quite easily, using any tooling you like.
<matthewcroughan1>
or really, any machine-readable, standard format which didn't require ad-hoc parsing
<nekobot>
• korli (52ec7eda): openjdk11: add recipe for version 11.0.27.5…
<nephele>
It doesn't require ad-hoc parsing
<nephele>
Is your compliant really just that it is a format you don't like? it's hardly non-standard...
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: haikuporter does a fuck ton of catching... part of that ends up in .json files under the "repository/recipeCache/" dir of the haikports cloned repo
<matthewcroughan1>
No, it has nothing to do with my personal preferences. I need to fetch the data from the internet, and doing this without having to write new code would be convenient.
<OscarL>
SOURCE_URI is contained on those .json files, if you want to go that route :-D
<matthewcroughan1>
OscarL: Yes, but the code that parses the recipe file format, could just be parsing json instead of arbitrary newlines with equals symbols.
<matthewcroughan1>
could be json on the input instead of having to transform it from this arbitrary format into json.
<matthewcroughan1>
OscarL: I would first have to run some program to convert all the recipe files into json, without causing it do start downloading stuff from the internet, or computing random things as a side effect, which would be nice if I could do that
<jmairboeck>
matthewcroughan1: the recipes are shell scripts (bash) and that's just what the shell understands
<OscarL>
recipes use bash syntax. not my cup of tea, but I wouldn't call it "arbitrary" :-)
<OscarL>
(well... no more than bash proper, LOL)
<matthewcroughan1>
Ah okay, didn't know
<jmairboeck>
so you could source the recipes with bash and then look at the SOURCE_URI and SOURCE_URI_* variables you get (* being numeric)
<matthewcroughan1>
There's nothing that checks that the reference is immutable in the recipes is there?
<matthewcroughan1>
So you could have strings like main hanging around, waiting to cause build failure, and no process is checking to ban those references
<matthewcroughan1>
I see commonly you are using commit hashes, but there's nothing forcing the usage of immutable references like this is there?
<jmairboeck>
there is CHECKSUM_SHA256 which must match what is downloaded
<OscarL>
recipes have a CHECKSUM_SHA256 for each SOURCE_URI.
<OscarL>
giving any .recipe even a quick glance might help
<jmairboeck>
Begasus[m]: I have a (1 line) patch for your Apache PR which should fix the conftest crash
<matthewcroughan1>
jmairboeck: That is good, but it's not what I meant.
<matthewcroughan1>
I meant that there is nothing checking that you don't leave main hanging around in a fetch
<matthewcroughan1>
You're not going to get yelled at by something for leaving main inside of the recipe
<matthewcroughan1>
and also, CHECKSUM_SHA256 is checking only the downloaded tarball, but not the result of unpacking right?
<matthewcroughan1>
So if the tarball unpack procedure is not reproducible, and has for example permission bits leaking into the output that vary on people's machines, then this will not be caught by CHECKSUM_SHA256?
<nephele>
haikuporter has code to check this stuff
<nephele>
check there
<nephele>
why would permission bits matter? nix doesn't set a umask?
<nephele>
also these bits are not part of any checksumming that checksums the file contents...
<matthewcroughan1>
Unpacking may not be reproducible unless you get rid of the bits that can vary between machines/architecture/kernel
<matthewcroughan1>
So I was just checking whether you check that or not, and it seems you don't atm?
<nephele>
Uhh, it's all checksummed... not sure what's difficult to understand about it
<matthewcroughan1>
All I'm really interested in getting is the same data as haikuporter, without unpacking, but as mentioned the unpacking step can't be avoided rn
<matthewcroughan1>
It's not difficult to understand, but it's not always clear what people do.
<matthewcroughan1>
Are you checksumming the file you fetch. Or are you checksumming the result of unpacking this fetch?
<matthewcroughan1>
They produce two different hashes, I'm just asking which hash is the one included in the recipe.
<nephele>
the file of course?
<matthewcroughan1>
E.g if you checksum the output directory of an unpack procedure, this hash will be different on two different machines depending on many factors if you're just using tar to unpack things.
<nephele>
youn can't checksum multiple files at once
<matthewcroughan1>
Okay cool, so the directory created when unpacking, is not checked for its consistency
<matthewcroughan1>
but the file itself that you are unpacking, is
<nephele>
of course it is
<nephele>
the file is checksummed before unpacking
<nephele>
and the unpacking is deterministic
<matthewcroughan1>
Claiming that the unpacking is deterministic, seems unreasonable unless you've made your own format like Nix has
<matthewcroughan1>
How have you made sure it is deterministic?
<matthewcroughan1>
I'm not even saying Nix has the best way of ensuring this is deterministic, it is just a way.
<OscarL>
I see at least one .patchset file in haikuports.cross repo, so no idea how you plan to handle that.
<matthewcroughan1>
by allowing haikuports to operate and do its thing
<phschafft>
/unreasonable unless you've made your own format like Nix has/ <- so.... it is!
<matthewcroughan1>
the only thing I have to do outside of haikuports control, is fetch the data and hash it
<OscarL>
so, "haikuporter -b" then
<OscarL>
ok, then the "issue" is not trusting haikuporter with the download / check sha256 of downloaded tarballs step... better let nix do that, right? (just trying to understand better)
<matthewcroughan1>
OscarL: Any tool that performs builds, wants to perform its own hashing. That's why the format recipes should be in, should be readily exportable and machine readable, so this can be handed off to any tool.
<matthewcroughan1>
E.g if you take a nix recipe, you can export the entire thing as json. So you can handle this in any other tool, and any tool can handle any recipe.
<nephele>
It's not machine unreadable
<matthewcroughan1>
And there should be a clear separation between fetching data, and performing operations on the fetched data. Which many build systems completely fail at. They also fail at being able to export their build graphs/dependency information, so you can't reproduce the build using another tool.
<matthewcroughan1>
unpacking is an operation on fetched data, as you mentioned haikuporter seems unable to separate the two.
<OscarL>
"letting haikuporter do its thing" includes letting it unpack and patch the tarballs. (git usage might be avoided by using -G and assuming the the .patchset are well formed enough to be applied simply with the "patch" tool).
<matthewcroughan1>
letting haikuporter do its thing, after the information has been fetched, yes.
<OscarL>
alright. just trying to follow along here.
<matthewcroughan1>
so if I can get just the input information, hash this, haikuporter can then do anything it wants with that, including unpacking.
<matthewcroughan1>
but as you mentioned, it may not be possible to get haikuporter to just fetch the information without performing an operation (unpacking) on it.
<matthewcroughan1>
This is not a huge issue as long as the bytes on disk are actually reproducible. This is what it means to "trust" haikuporter.
<matthewcroughan1>
The problem is, you can't often trust that with many tools, because they do not get the same bytes on disk.
<nephele>
Just delete the dir if you want to extract it yourself *shrug*
<matthewcroughan1>
Yeah, then it just becomes a matter of efficiency, the fact that it'd be unpacking twice
<matthewcroughan1>
but it is a solution for sure
<matthewcroughan1>
If haikuporter performs a git fetch, it's going to get a .git index, which is not going to produce the same bytes on disk. Not sure if haikuporter does deal with git.
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: as a heads up.... even if you download the tarball haikuporter (hp) expects... you'll also need to place a .uri file next to that tarball... example from the recipe for Python 3.10...
<OscarL>
tarball ends in: "haikuports/dev-lang/python/download/Python-3.10.17.tar.xz"... in that same download folder...
<matthewcroughan1>
and this .uri file needs to contain what?
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<OscarL>
the parsed/final SOURCE_URI
<Begasus[m]>
sed -i "s/$CHECKSUM_SHA256/`curl -sL $SOURCE_URI | sha256sum | head -c 64`/" $FNAME ; done
<Begasus[m]>
that works :)
<Begasus[m]>
anyway, not about to go changing haikuports recipes just for pleasing nix I hope
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: if both those files are present, hp -b won't try to download the tarball again.
<matthewcroughan1>
This is not about pleasing Nix, you could remove it from the conversation and it'd still be a relevant criticism.
<matthewcroughan1>
Most build systems fail to export their internal information to other tooling. This is not uncommon.
<matthewcroughan1>
Every single build system, can benefit from being able to export and import dependency and hashing information, to/from other places.
<nephele>
No, it's not a relevant critizism
<Begasus[m]>
fwiw my setup is working fine enough, but yeah, if a proper sollution could work and it doesn't interfere with current work I won't be in the way
<matthewcroughan1>
Americanisms getting crasy these days
<nephele>
the extraction phase is deterministic, and checksumming files again serves no purpose
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<matthewcroughan1>
Okay cool. I'm sure you've never encountered an issue relating to that.
<HaikuUser>
hello
<nephele>
Yes, I have never encountered an issue with that. And I don't know anyone else who has
<nephele>
Hi HaikuUser :)
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<matthewcroughan1>
Thank you for your tribalism.
<OscarL>
try asking hp for the list of (direct) dependencies a given recipe uses. kinda easier to just do your own .recipe parser.
<Begasus[m]>
korli also has a PR to check signed authors that's working
<Begasus[m]>
signatures*
<nephele>
Begasus[m]: can i check if the build server managed to compile llvm20 somehow?
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<nephele>
gcc crashes for me when trying to compile it
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: FWIW, I too wish it was easier to ask hp for some stuff...
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<HaikuUser>
please add a port for Sylpheed
<Begasus[m]>
thanks on the pointer jmairboeck , will give it a go tomorrow
<Begasus[m]>
closing down here
<Begasus[m]>
cu peeps!
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: would open the posibility for some easier automation (check for outdated recipes, for a basic example).
<OscarL>
later Begasus[m]!
<nephele>
HaikuUser: we currently don't have a port for gtk2. but we have open for gtk3, can it work with gtk3?
<matthewcroughan1>
I'm a bit confused what's getting checksummed though, is it the directory (result of unpack) or the file (the tarball)
<matthewcroughan1>
I'm a bit confused what's getting checksummed now though, is it the directory (result of unpack) or the file (the tarball), or did you mean to say "checksumming directories serves no purpose" ?
<matthewcroughan1>
Also having a bit of an issue with my matrix client, sorry if a message gets replayed.
<OscarL>
only the tarball file (as downloaded) gets checksumed.
<OscarL>
if checksum doesn't match... process stops right there.
<matthewcroughan1>
God damnit.. all the messages just popped through. Really sorry about that.
<matthewcroughan1>
I think by the end of this whole journey I'll end up making something like haikuporter with pure nix, so that haikuporter would no longer be necessary.
<HaikuUser2>
hello. when im installing some applications, haikudepot is crashed and app not fully installed - haikudepot says that is installed, but when im trying to remove it , it says that cant find match for it
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<nephele>
HaikuUser: Then it seems it is non-trivial to port at the moment :/
<OscarL>
msh356: hello, maybe try with the command line tool: "pkgman"
<nephele>
msh356: i think that is a bug, it should be already deinstalled then
<metalist>
is the STABLE really so stable compared to the nightlys?
<nephele>
Yes
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<phschafft>
matthewcroughan1: I mean you can do that, but... why?
<msh356>
this app is removed from menu
<msh356>
lol my laptop cant load apps list in haikudepot
<waddlesplash>
nephele: my original patchset for GTK3 to make it work on Xlibe should mostly apply to GTK2 I think
<waddlesplash>
but I never tried
<nephele>
waddlesplash: well, you can try if you want. That is a bit out of my depth
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<msh356>
so abbadon is deinstalled
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<matthewcroughan1>
Excellent, and you seem to have helped quite a lot, so I think in the end I'll produce something you can use that you'll be happy with
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<nephele>
for what?
<OscarL>
(I'd be happy if "hp --analyze-dependencies" created/updated a .sqlite file containing all the relevant info, kinda plan on doing something like that for my own amusement)
<matthewcroughan1>
Not sure why you have to ask why I want to do something. Maybe you could just not say anything.
<matthewcroughan1>
My endeavour is not going to be interesting to everyone
<nephele>
"I think in the end I'll produce something you can use that you'll be happy with"
<OscarL>
For that sylpheed requested port..., from it's INSTALL file on the github repo: "GTK+ 3 is not supported yet."
<OscarL>
last commit is from 2022, and debian-unstable builds it against libgtk2.0-dev, so it seems they don't have custom patches to bring it up to gtk3.
<OscarL>
so unless someone ports gtk2 first HaikuUser, I'm afraid you're out of luck.
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<phschafft>
so.
<phschafft>
back. :)
<HaikuUser>
OscarL This is very badly
<gordonjcp>
HaikuUser: time to get good at porting gtk2 code to gtk3 I guess
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<HaikuUser>
gordonjcp I agree
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<Saijin_Naib[m]>
Ooh, I would love to see GTK on Haiku :D
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<OscarL>
Saijin_Naib[m]: gtk3 is already ported. (currently we have version 3.24.36)
<Saijin_Naib[m]>
Oh wow, that's news. I apologize! I must explore Haiku more, then
<Saijin_Naib[m]>
I just get a kick out of using the BeOS-inspire WM themes for my XFCE desktop, so the idea of seeing a GTK-native app actually running in Haiku tickles me
<OscarL>
running `pkgman search -r lib:libgtk` on a Terminal window should give you a good list of what software that needs GTK is already ported to Haiku.
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<Saijin_Naib[m]>
I'll check that out!
<Saijin_Naib[m]>
I'm running 32bit since I wanted to explore legacy BeOS apps, but I assume some 32bit ports exist, too
<OscarL>
Qt based ports are generally better integrated (heck, I think many Qt apps look better on Haiku than they do on Linux, lol)
<OscarL>
Saijin_Naib[m]: according to the following link, Audacity is available on 32 bits, too, so... yes. https://depot.haiku-os.org/#!/?repos=haikuports&arch=x86_gcc2&srchexpr=audacity
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<Saijin_Naib[m]>
It is weird to see QT everywhere, even on OS/2 haha
<Saijin_Naib[m]>
Nothing feels right in PM though, it had such odd controls
<phschafft>
looking for a PDF I think I should have somewhere, with a reference to the null device as bit bucket device. it also references support for writing ihex files via pip.
<phschafft>
must be a manual from the 70s.
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<neoncortex>
other day I have talked about it. gtk programs works, but I have the issue of the keyboard modifiers not being recognized. I have binded altgt + q to /, but I get just q, with, or without altgr pressing. In qt programs, and in native programs, the binding works.
<neoncortex>
also, for starting my developing for Haiku journey: how deep should I be into C++? The haiku C++ is the same C++ as the other C++'es around? This is not like Plan9 that have their own C dialect, I suppose.
<phschafft>
I guess you'll fine the normal amount of rough edges. but as far as I know it's all standard C++.
<neoncortex>
I see.
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<gordonjcp>
phschafft: 1975, two years younger than me
<phschafft>
:)
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: I think PIP started life on some DEC operating system; it's certainly mentioned in Introduction to Programming the PDP8
* phschafft
nods.
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<phschafft>
my father used to tell stories about PIP.
<phschafft>
(and reading some manuals, I guess most of his stories where more noise on the tape than facts)
<phschafft>
in this case I was looking for a listing of supported device names.
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<brickviking[m]>
I remember PIP on the CP/M I tried out. I really had to have the manual to get that working properly, as I didn't know it at all.
<Viking667>
Oh yes, good morftervening all. Is there a way to have my nick come up as "Viking667" on the Matrix side instead of @_oftc_Viking667:matrix.org?
<brickviking[m]>
Oh. It does work now.
<phschafft>
brickviking[m]: I wonder a bit if dd(1) is related to it.
<phschafft>
I mean they do very similar things.
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