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<Aedil>
Good morning!
<Halian|Redriver>
o/
<Aedil>
Hi Halian|Redriver!
<Halian|Redriver>
Haldo :3
<Halian|Redriver>
How goes it?
<Aedil>
Halian|Redriver: It is OK! How about you? Where are you from? I am from Germany.
<B2IA>
(BeShare Admin) howdy everyone
<Halian|Redriver>
Aedil: fine; working on badges for a convention. I'm from Florida.
<Halian|Redriver>
B2IA: h
<Halian|Redriver>
What's BeShare?
<Aedil>
Halian|Redriver: Nice to meet you.
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<Halian|Redriver>
Same here :#
<Halian|Redriver>
:3 *
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<tigerbrother>
Hi. I can start Haiku on my MacBook Air 2015 with USB, but the installer can't detect the NVME controller, which led to can't install it to the physical computer. I have no idea does it fixed.
<tigerbrother>
Beta 5 was released for a long time.
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<Halian|Redriver>
tigerbrother: try the latest nightly build?
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<Begasus[m]>
g'morning peeps
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<zdykstra>
Gooooood morning
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<nekobot>
• threedeyes (edcea08c): floorp: bump version
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<Viking668>
Okay, I'm back - this time from inside Haiku after a couple of false starts.
<Viking668>
Is there a way to get unicode characters to appear when using doom-modeline in emacs on Haiku?
<Viking668>
back soon...
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<phschafft>
hm.
<Begasus[m]>
hmmm
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<Viking668>
I'm back, no difference. Modeline still shows weird boxes with Hex numbers inside.
<Viking668>
The weird thing is: I don't know how I "solved" this (display of unicode chars in modeline in emacs) over on Linux, just that it seems to work there, but not in Haiku.
<Viking668>
Additionally, how do I access an application's menu? Ctl-~ doesn't seem to do anything but call up the tracker thing to switch between all app windows.
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<Begasus[m]>
no emacs user here
<Viking668>
THis question's a basic UI question, not specific to emacs.
<Viking668>
(yes, I'm still new to how keyboard shortcuts actually work on Haiku as opposed to anywhere else)
<Viking668>
And hi again, Begasus
<Viking668>
Did you get your Qt6 problem sorted?
<Begasus[m]>
well got Qt6 6.8.3 build and installed, need further testing
<Begasus[m]>
not for production, but doesn't stop me from trying it out :)
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<Viking668>
Fair enough - last time we talked, you had a problem with a mv command not working for some reason.
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, stupid error on my side (as usual) :)
<Begasus[m]>
I was editing the wrong recipe :D
<Viking668>
figures.
<Viking668>
Chalk that one up to PEBKAC again.
<Begasus[m]>
PEBKAC?
<Viking668>
Probable Error Between Keyboard And Chair.
<Viking668>
i.e. otherwise known as a wetware error.
<Viking667>
huh. So Viking668 is still "present", although I doubt he'll be alive for a ping.
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<Begasus[m]>
joined through matrix?
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<Viking668>
Sorry about the delay of return. Had to crash haiku and start again, which lost me my emacs session and saved desktop. Sigh.
<Begasus[m]>
one advice (small one), if your env is setup the way you like it after changes, a reboot could help preserve it in case you get a crash
<Begasus[m]>
I tend to re-arange icons on the Desktop, and in case I need to relaunch Tracker I need to do it over again also
<Viking668>
That's great for the rest of the desktop, but not the "Emacs" desktop session.
<Viking668>
As it so happens, the thing that axed the whole of Haiku was me loading an image into an eww buffer then trying to increase its size so I could read the text.
<Viking668>
Okay. Let's test this reboot suggestion out.
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<Begasus[m]>
Hola OscarL !
<OscarL>
Morning Begasus[m].
<Begasus[m]>
I'm guessing you are on summertime now? :)
<OscarL>
Viking667: the "Menu" key opens Deskbar's menu (where the "Appplications" submenu is located). If you want something more practical, install QuickLaunch.
<Begasus[m]>
this would make nephele happy I guess :)
<Begasus[m]>
just block quotes don't show up correctly, and the topic banner is wrong also
<Begasus[m]>
but at least it's better on the eyes for some I guess
<Viking667>
Huh! And you made me aware of another IRC program too, and all without crashing my Emacs.
<Begasus[m]>
and still works build with qt6 6.8.3 :)
<Begasus[m]>
Quaternion is a matrix client Viking667 :)
<Viking667>
so I just found out after I looked closer at the joins.
<Viking667>
added to that, being the fact that very few IRC clients (aside from perhaps mIRC) have the ability to display images directly inline in an IRC channel...
<OscarL>
Viking667: for questions about emacs usage on Haiku, you could poke user augiedoggie if he was around (we haven't seen it in almost a month now :-/). Also, IIRC, one of the emacs devs sometimes visit the Haiku forums too.
<Begasus[m]>
right
<Viking667>
Heh. And here I was joining #haiku for getting fnc working. I still don't know why the compile's not "finding" the queue.h file, even though it's in the "right" place.
<Viking667>
I have a bsd/sys/queue.h in /boot/system/develop/headers/ (I think)
<OscarL>
Haiku doesn't has the queue code from OpenBSD...
<erysdren>
i think he ported it over
<erysdren>
or something
<OscarL>
I suggested just copying them into fnc's sources (or create a .recipe for them, as seem to be a header-only lib). Chimera Linux does that for fnc.
<Viking667>
I'll try it there, see what it does with it.
<OscarL>
just in case, remember to change the includes from <queue.h> to "queue.h".
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<Viking667>
good catch. I'll go try that now, except it would ordinarily be #include <sys/queue.h>. I may have a patch I can suggest to Mark - most of his development is OpenBSD-based, I don't know how much he knows about Haiku.
<OscarL>
Mmm, /boot/system/develop/headers/bsd/sys/queue.h does looks like the one from *BSDs after all.
<OscarL>
maybe you just need one of those -DDEFAULT_SOURCE or similar?
<OscarL>
*-D_DEFAULT_SOURCE (IIRC)
<OscarL>
right at the top of said file: "#ifdef _DEFAULT_SOURCE" :-)
<OscarL>
Viking667: try adding that flag to your CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS instead of what I hastly suggested before.
<Begasus[m]>
OK, although not perfect, I can live with this (dark mode in Quaternion)
<OscarL>
(seems I had missed "headers/bsd/sys/queue.h" before due to /me assuming "/boot/system/develop/headers/private/libs/compat/freebsd_network/compat/sys/queue.h" was the only one present)
<Viking667>
Right. I tried adding #include "queue.h" as well, didn't make a blind bit of difference to the compile. I'll go catch up with the flags now.
<Viking667>
nope. I'm missing something completely fundamental here - it's saying exactly the same thing every single time no matter what I try.
<Viking667>
Does anyone else have fossil installed, and can maybe help me get this to actually _work_??
<Viking667>
I can walk you through installing fnc's source tree if needed.
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: reading the comments on that Freerct PR... seems korli doesn't minds having suff under "$appsDir/<appname>/" (at least in some cases). I remember suggesting using that for QuakeSpasm in the past, for example (instead of having its data in $dataDir, etc)
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: I don't mind also, but the benifit of my suggestion is is that you can launch it from Terminal
<Begasus[m]>
and I'm mostly in favor of using system directories where possible
<OscarL>
not hard to add a script under /bin if that's desired.
<OscarL>
anyway... just a comment.
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, but why add one if it isn't needed :)
<OscarL>
Viking667: had tried to use fossil since I knew about it loooong ago (love having just one binary for VCS+wiki+issues+etc, heck, I had it running on a 2012 era android phone). But man... I could never get used to the ticket system being so fugly looking :-)
<OscarL>
Why separate dirs if not needed.
<OscarL>
again, a matter of perspective.
<Viking667>
That's why the fossil maintainers tend to use the forums instead
<Viking667>
(at least for fossil-scm/sqlite3/althttpd/ etc etc etc)
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: it's how $prefix is setup?
<Begasus[m]>
anyway, biab :)
<Viking667>
given that it's 22:51 here, I need to depart pretty shortly. No doubt I'll be back another time.
<OscarL>
Viking667: installed fossil, might try cloning the rest tonight when I have more data available (using phone network)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I guess that what I'm trying to say is... when porting stuff that use "split dirs", sure, use that. But for stuff that doesn't explicitly use that style... there might not be a real need to follow that style, when the "BeOS way" might be a cleaner option.
<OscarL>
Viking667: yeah, already had the URL on my browser history from long ago it seems :-)
<Viking667>
Right. I'm not sure what changes Stephan made to it in the libfossil project, but I thought I'd run with the upstream fnc instead.
<OscarL>
(I think I had, at least briefly, considered porting it in the past)
<Viking667>
the other sourcetree is available with the libfossil project, fossil clone https://fossil.wanderinghorse.net/r/libfossil to get that source tree. It compiles up fine except for fnc.
<OscarL>
mmm, seems our fossil package doesn't has bash-completions for it :-/
<Viking667>
I'm not surprised. I have a bash-completions package for it.
<Viking667>
(though I hand-cobbled that one together myself)
<OscarL>
we could perhaps add your work as part of our fossil .recipe if there's not a more official version :-)
<Viking667>
I can suggest that you clone the fossil project itself, and grab my branch - I should have a bash_completions thing in bv-infotool branch.
<Viking667>
heh. I don't mind that, though I'm not 100% sure of what that recipe is meant to cover.
<OscarL>
thanks, will take a look.
<Viking667>
If there's not, I can pass you what I've done
* OscarL
tries to find his old fossil clone
<Viking667>
Ohhh. It's not in the branch, it's in the org file I created for the express purpose. I'll go add that to the branch now.
<Viking667>
OscarL: You have one? It'll have had a lot of updates since that point.
<OscarL>
I used to regularly checkout fossil on windows, and mess around with skins, and such.... I *really* wanted to like it enough for my personal use.
<OscarL>
fossil-scm.fossil, about 100 MiB :-)
<OscarL>
last updated in 2022, lol.
<Viking667>
I think I first picked up on it in about 2016-ish. didn't touch it for a while after that until I started contributing to the project about two or three years ago.
<Viking667>
Nope, looks like I hand-rolled the bash_completion thing for fossil.
* OscarL
ponders if it might be better to create a proper recipe for libfossil (seems like only AlpineLinux has a package for it? :-D)
<Viking667>
Well, as I said, libfossil programs seem to get created properly, with the obvious problem about fnc.
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: freerct does use split directories
<OscarL>
sure. I just mentioned that particular project because korli's comment make me remember this topic. Not looking to rock the boat, just to point out that different opinions exist.
<Begasus[m]>
boat is already rocking, we agree to disagree :)
<OscarL>
I was a bit torn with splitting csound, for example, when the HaikuPorts recipe used split dirs, while Pete's version used "unified" mode.
<OscarL>
for a "custom port" like that one... I kinda liked Pete's version better.
<Begasus[m]>
had been in contact with Pete at that time (can't remember the details though)
<OscarL>
yes, we exchanged emails after you put both of us in contact.
<Begasus[m]>
iirc Pete had BeOS custom targets that can work with the csound package
<Begasus[m]>
I'm getting older you know, :P I'm allowed to be wrong ;)
<Viking667>
Okay, I'm off to bed - I will pick this back up another time.
<Begasus[m]>
cu Viking667
<OscarL>
Viking667: we'll geet there with fnc eventually. Sleep well.
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<Viking667>
Thank you. No doubt it'll help out Mark and Stephan too, as I don't think either of them have Haiku experience. I must be one of the few people they know to have even thought to try it.
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not my intention. Just trying to point out that both methods can be valid, and have their use cases.
<Begasus[m]>
iirc I had some discussions way back with fbrosson ... :)
<OscarL>
and in part (or rather, sometimes), it can be a matter of preference, and not based on technial superiority of a methor over the other.
<Begasus[m]>
my 2 cents, if it can use the system layout use that, if it can't put it all in one dir (eg $appsDir)
<OscarL>
some stuff I'd never place under appsDir/foobar/, while others... I rather do not split. that's all, just a comment :-)
<Begasus[m]>
there is always a split, it only happens in $appsDir/foobar then
<Begasus[m]>
and not visible in the system layout
<OscarL>
Where you really displeased with how BeOS apps were packaged back in the day?
<Begasus[m]>
we used /*/common then
<Begasus[m]>
which boiles down to the same
<OscarL>
never used common on BeOS myself, I guess I stopped using it as my main OS before that then.
<matthewcroughan1>
Got Haiku on this old 32 bit machine.. opened StreamRadio. Typed "Bill Evans" into the search feature. Found "Just Bill Evans Radio", double click, now it's coming in. Since this machine simply doesn't have the facility to go online and get the files anymore because of javascript, this was a very nice experience.
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<matthewcroughan1>
I think internet radio is one of those little pleasures
<matthewcroughan1>
When youtube is easily accessible, it's easy to think it's more convenient. Reality is a small radio program 200k in size is the better way.
<OscarL>
indeed.
<Begasus[m]>
hence why I like Kasts, small KDE podcast player
<Begasus[m]>
someone is busy at the mailinglist :)
<OscarL>
seems like fnc is to fossil, like tig is to git, but fnc feels faster than tig.
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<Begasus[m]>
nice OscarL !
<OscarL>
will push the current (WIP) recipe to my repo in a moment.
<OscarL>
turns out libfossil includes "embedded" copies of: sqlite, fossil, and fnc. On the other hand, fnc also includes its own copy of libfossil.
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<OscarL>
so I guess next I should write a recipe for fnc, which makes libfossil.so recipe kind of redundant (except for the cmd: that package provides).
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<Begasus[m]>
progress! :) this works on beta also?
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: that PACKAGE_NAME trick is neat. instead of "libfossil_client", now I can produce an "fnc" package directly from that libfossil recipe :-)
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL, if you read this: "mv: inter-device move failed: '/packages/libfossil-2024.09.03-1/.self/bin/fnc' to '/bin/fnc'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system"
<Begasus[m]>
probably due to PACKAGE_NAME_client
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<OscarL>
that's weird Begasus[m]. got all packages ok here. Let's try again with a clean vm...
<OscarL>
i did removed the libfossil / libfossil_client .hpkg, installed the install fnc + libfossil .hpkgs ones, and fnc was still usable. Started a new build, just in case.
<OscarL>
mmm. I did not check my last commit (the one commenting out the debuginfo package), though.
<OscarL>
I got a pretty clean build again, Begasus[m]. Full console output: https://bpa.st/Y55A
<Begasus[m]>
building krita from master atm, almost there, build for fnc was fine, and is also installed in prefix/bin, just failes to move it to the sub-package with the above error here
<Begasus[m]>
mv: inter-device move failed (that's the first time I see this one also)
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* neoncortex
want one of that on top of the house.
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<AlienSoldier>
or the house on top of that :)
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<neoncortex>
heh
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<neoncortex>
one thing I notice is that gtk programs don't recognize the alt gr modifier. I have modified my keyboard layout to, for example, do a / with alt gr + q, and in native programs, and in qt ones, it works, but not in gtk.
<neoncortex>
s/I notice/I noticed/
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<phschafft>
no popcorn needed today?
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<Viking668>
Hola and good morftervening to you all.
<Viking668>
By the way, where's the Changelog for the Haiku nightlies?
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<Viking668>
Ah, okay. Thanks - I'm still finding my way around. I'll hopefully be upgraded r.s.n.
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<Viking668>
What prompted this question is: I fired up HaikuDepot, checked for updates. It tells me that Haiku-r1-beta5-r58787-1 is newest (I have r58787, not the -1) and I was wanting to know what had been changed.
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<OscarL>
packages have a version and a revision. For Haiku packages, I think 100% of the time you'll see revision being -1, for other packaged software is usual to have increasing revision numbers (say, same software got compiled/packaged, but with a new patch, adding an icon, or changes like that.
<Viking668>
mmm. Just paging through pages now...
<OscarL>
(not that the revision is -1 as in negative number, - is just the separator :-D)
<Viking668>
Um, I had figured that out. That's what comes of being involved with computers (on and off) since I was helping with an Apple IIe being used as a CCD capture device.
<Viking668>
ohhh, cool!!! What patches needed to be made?
<phschafft>
negative versions. I need to have that somewhere. it will drive maintainers crazy!
<Viking668>
ahh, but what if it was a false negative version?
<Viking668>
<grin> Ewww..... you used ... euch. Git....</grin>
<phschafft>
or maybe complex versions. like -7+3i
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<Viking668>
What about vectors, or matrices? -[[2,3,1][3,5,a][2,9,7]]
<OscarL>
I compiled the fnc included in libfossil, and to make it work on beta5 I had to add copy of fnc's compat/reallaocarray.c, as libfossil's version of fnc doesn't includes it for some reason.
<phschafft>
make sure you have some irrational numbers in there!
<OscarL>
Viking668: yeah, sorry for the git repo, that's what HaikuPorts uses :-D
<Viking668>
'scuse me. I'll go pull that down, I'll see what changes I need here
<Viking668>
no no no..... √PI! (the real pi symbol)
<Viking668>
I got quite a fright to find out that PI! actually worked on a HP34C.
<Viking668>
(though it takes a while to work it out)
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<matthewcroughan1>
Is here a program on Haiku that will let me find and play a specific piece of music without youtube and web browsing?
<OscarL>
Viking668: for nightlies, I guess the changes to fnc_compat.h (plus possibly fixing some linker flags, you'll need "-lbsd" on Haiku) might be enough.
<matthewcroughan1>
StreamRadio is fantastic, but ofc it's just radio so you're not in control of what comes in
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<phschafft>
√πi?
<Viking668>
Add a ! after all that. I don't even know if that'd be a valid number.
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan1: not exactly for music, but for youtube videos: QMPlay2. Not sure if you can make it download just the audio (it uses yt-dlp, so maybe).
<phschafft>
you mean 𝚪(1+√πi)?
<Viking668>
Hm. I don't know what that first character is - utf-8 isn't 100% working here.
<Viking668>
With yt-dlp, you'd use -f <some-audio-format> (I typically used 140, but I notice that the available formats have changed drastically)
<phschafft>
(there is also a graph in the article on the results if the argument is a complex number)
<OscarL>
Viking668: instead of fixed codec ids, I now use -S "vcodec:h264,+size,+vbr,+abr,lang:en-US" to download the smallest video and audio streams (forcing h264 for compatibility with my old phone).
<OscarL>
(and "lang:en" to avoid the auto-dubbed audio tracks that many videos have now)
<OscarL>
not sure if QMPlay2 allows customizing the yt-dlp call is what I mean before regarding matthewcroughan1's question.
<OscarL>
Viking668: are you aware of any big difference between "standalone" fnc and the version from libfossil? (I haven't downloaded fnc's tarball yet).
<OscarL>
context: I wonder if just having the one from libfossil would be enough.
<Viking668>
Ohhhh yeah. There's a difference. I can't actually figure out what the difference is yet. (apologies for slow reply, this keyboard ain't so hot)
<Viking668>
And fnc has its own fossil repo, fossil clone https://fnc.bsdbox.org <--I thinkthat's correct...
<OscarL>
it includes an "amalgamated" copy of libfossil, yes. I guess I'm just confused by the "interbreeding" :-)
<OscarL>
what I mean is... if they are functionally equivalent, I rather build it (and package it) from libfossil sources, as in that way I can have libfossil, libfossil_devel, libfossil_tools and fnc all from just one recipe.
<Viking668>
yeah, fnc uses libfossil. that's why the libfossil included fnc as a "client" program.
<Viking668>
let me change machines...
<OscarL>
alternatively... we could only have the fnc recipe/package, and not add libfossil, as nothing else seems to use it so far.
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<OscarL>
if fnc will use a statically linked version of libfossil, not much point in having libfossil.so, etc, unless the commands libfossil provides are also useful. I wouldn't know, as I'm not really a fossil user.
<Viking667>
okay. The reason to include libfossil is for all the f-apps (f-timeline, f-vdiff and so on.) You won't get that with just fnc.
<Viking667>
I'd recommend keeping the both, but that's just my uninformed opinion and is best promoted by the authors of the respective projects.
<Viking667>
I'm a contributor to both the fossil and the libfossil projects and have made a few twiddles to documentation (that's mostly my contributions, tbh)
<OscarL>
understood. it is just that I don't like adding recipes "just because", as we don't have many people to maintain the recipes after the fact.
<OscarL>
I *think* I saw a patch somewhere to make fnc link to a system provided libfossil.so, somewhere. But at that point, I wonder what are we gaining over using just the fnc from libfossil :-)
<Viking667>
I understand. libfossil includes fnc as one of the client programs, so you could modify the recipe to add fnc as well as f-vdiff, f-timeline, f-whateverelse
<OscarL>
my recipe already does that, yes.
<Viking667>
... it does?
<OscarL>
yes.
* Viking667
looks again.
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<Viking667>
Ah, I missed that the first time. Sorry about that.
<Viking668>
so now all I have to do is await the recipe's arrival in haiku and to see if fnc falls over there.
<OscarL>
the recipe might need some polish after some peer-review (I wrote it half-asleep), but seems to be functional enough.
<Viking668>
with the "original" fnc, that works on Linux and the BSDs (Free,Net,Open). The fnc supplied with libfossil keeps sigsevving and I don't know why.
<OscarL>
to be fair, the only test I did with my locally built fnc was to "browse" and old .fossil clone I had lying around (as seen on the screenshot I linked earlier)
<Viking668>
heh. I'll have to throw that link over to Viking667 on Linux...
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<Viking668>
the libfossil tree supplied hasn't had the patches applied, has it?
<Viking668>
(i.e. it's the original fetched tarball)?
<Viking668>
In addition, if I download that recipe, how do I use it?
<Viking668>
oooo. Looks like the recipe was accepted.
<OscarL>
process is a bit involved, if you are planning to use it just for this case, but hey... I too only planned to take a peek a the Python recipes some years ago... and here I am :-)
<OscarL>
I didn't even opened a PR, so I doubt it got merged.
<Viking667>
The quicker route (for me at least) is to apply your patchset on top of my tree - it could be nicer if you were able to push the patchset up to wanderinghorse.net - Stephan will be able to take it from there - he's been wanting someone with some Haiku experience to contribute.
<OscarL>
Merged in HaikuPort's upstream repo, I mean. If you cloned from MY fork, the recipe should indeed be there.
<Viking667>
Right. I refreshed HaikuDepot, but libfossil hasn't turned up there. Is there something else I need to do?
<OscarL>
Viking667: after I get some sleep (or after I get a litre of coffee), I will try building from "original" fnc. Will help me decide which .recipe to "push" to HaikuPorts.
<matthewcroughan1>
qmplay2 is genuine magic... oh my fucking god
<matthewcroughan1>
might even start using that in linux
<OscarL>
I don't have commit access to HaikuPorts, ergo, I pushed the recipe to my clone/fork. Haven't opened a PR yet because I'm sure I can clean it up a bit before the review.
<Viking667>
I'm guessing we join the recipe maker up with Stephan?
<Viking667>
That looks—initially at least—like korli.
<Viking667>
matthewcroughan1: fwiw, I use mpv once I have the URL I need. It does expect that some form of yt-dlp or variety is installed too.
<matthewcroughan1>
mpv has no browser though
<Viking667>
mpv is run from the terminal, but knows how to play videos.
<Viking667>
True, that - that's why I said "have the url I need".
<matthewcroughan1>
javascript chews through resources, this old hp compaq nc6120 has no hope of browsing youtube any other way
<matthewcroughan1>
so getting the URL as you say, is a lot lot harder on this old 32 bit machine with only 1G of memory
<matthewcroughan1>
we cannot even get URLs to resources without using more resources than this
<matthewcroughan1>
the system 7 m68k on the left can still get URLs just fine via frogfind and gopher though
<Viking667>
I was thinking of gopher, actually.
<matthewcroughan1>
I suppose this could too, but multimedia URLs can only be gathered by browsing websites that take up more RAM and use JS too much
<matthewcroughan1>
until qmplay came along :D
<Viking667>
heh.
<matthewcroughan1>
Does haiku do suspend? If so how do I tell it to?
<waddlesplash>
Viking667: I'll reply to the SQLite forum thread
<matthewcroughan1>
ah I researched, no it does not yet, it doesn't need to though, it's fine
<Viking667>
Thanks, waddlesplash. I know that's relevant to the sqlite3 package, but it wouldn't hurt to suggest to Stephan that someone could look after the libfossil recipe too.