<nephele>
I am well aware of how freebsd boot enviroments, zfs snapshots etc work, but i think it is quite rude that you link some man page after clearly not having read the documentation i linked you to upon your question
<skirst>
ext* still sucks ;D
<rennj>
ive covered that page before
<rennj>
its laughable
<rennj>
and im not talking about choosing boot devices
<nephele>
I'm not going to handcopy the docs, i linked it to you, read it, or else shut up about it
<nephele>
nobody is talking about boot devices, multiboot or anything like that
<rennj>
1000 pkg update..guess what on next reboot im in the new stuff, if it goes wrong i can reboot into old bootenv
<nephele>
Yes, you can.
<nephele>
Read the docs
<rennj>
what docs..? where does it say it on that link
<nephele>
The one i linked, in the troubleshooting section
<rennj>
bootloader choosing to boot usb,cdrom,hd..is not what im talking about
<nephele>
"Under Select boot volume you can specify what former "version" of Haiku to boot. Every time you un/install a package, the old state is saved and you can boot into it by choosing it from the list presented in the boot loader options.
<nephele>
So, if you encounter boot problems after installing some package, boot a Haiku state from before that time and uninstall the offending package."
<rennj>
that is from a user install!!!!!
<rennj>
it was not done for you automatically
<nephele>
I am quite baffled that you refuse to read such a short document but rather spend your time complaining here on irc
<skirst>
rennj: it works i swear. it's a feature of the package manager i believe
<nephele>
It works automatically, every time, it is how the package manager works /at its core/
<skirst>
the whole package activation state of the boot process, correct?
<rennj>
i see nothing on that page compared to what im talking to
<skirst>
s/state/stage/
<nephele>
> 1000 pkg update..guess what on next reboot im in the new stuff, if it goes wrong i can reboot into old bootenv
<nephele>
same thing
<rennj>
the user had to do couple installs
<nephele>
just that we don't have ridicilously large updates like that
<nephele>
that's just false, read the sentence i /handcopied/ for you
<nephele>
> the user had to do couple installs
<nephele>
skirst: yeah, we have a list of activated packages
<nephele>
the bootloader only picks those, but you can have packages at differrent mount points which the bootloader doesn't restore (say, for haikuports or so)
<skirst>
just what i've gleaned from syslogs. kinda figured
<nephele>
or /system/packages/administrative/<date>/activated-packages or past states
<rennj>
one fucking line owe its information overload Under Select boot volume you can specify what former "version" of Haiku to boot. Every time you un/install a package, the old state is saved and you can boot into it by choosing it from the list presented in the boot loader options.
<rennj>
So, if you encounter boot problems after installing some package, boot a Haiku state from before that time and uninstall the offending package.
<rennj>

<skirst>
and /system/packages/administrative is also where the previous states are dumped
<nephele>
yeah, in the <date> dirs
<nephele>
that is, it also puts the now-deactivated packages in that dir for the date for later activation
<skirst>
it works very well :)
<nephele>
rennj: Yes, it is one line, there is nothing to tell. It is extremely easy, open the bootloader and select the state you want to boot from
<nephele>
unless you want to delve into technical stuff of implementation but that is not ment for user documentation
<skirst>
so the sdl12-compat library broke all of my old sdl 1.2 apps. so i ported them all to sdl2. maybe that was their intent lol
<nephele>
lol
<skirst>
broken input, render glitches. bleh. sdl2 is nicer anyways.
<nephele>
I use sdl2 indirectly quite a bit, with the love2d
<nephele>
api
<skirst>
i slept on sdl2 for so long because my sdl1 crap still just worked. my daily driver is manjaro linux and they switched to the compat lib. broke everything lol
<skirst>
hell, i wonder if unreal 2k4 still works. probably not.
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<skirst>
that love2d doesn't look bad. seems like a sensible framework for writing casual games with. i've been a lua fan for decades
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<skirst>
trying to make it more c/c++. i mostly succeeded
<nephele>
It seems that most "game" dev i do is in lua :D
<nephele>
I used to write some mods for garrys mod in lua, now i write a minetest gamemode in lua and a love2d game in lua
<skirst>
it's really is a great language. i use luajit daily
<nephele>
luajit is a bit annoying nowadays for basically splitting the language in two :/
<nephele>
many newer lua features i can't use because luajit doesn't support anything higher than 5.1 (with some 5.2 stuff).. and nobody wrote a faster or equivalent jit for 5.4 or something
<skirst>
that's why i still use it. i need that speed for prototyping real-time code
<skirst>
i haven't even looked at anything beyond 5.2
<skirst>
it is the best scripting language for games without a doubt. i used it for everything in my old game dev projects. game logic, assets, shaders. hell i even used it for procedral generation of assets, synthesized sound, textures, etc...
<skirst>
i think i still have code somewhere for a gtk2 gui debugger/profiler for my bastardized version of lua
<skirst>
oh i ported it to Qt 4 lol
<skirst>
but i have it!
<nephele>
well, there is TDE with qt3 and KDE with qt5 still, you fall right in the middle there :D
<skirst>
nope. i'm just old and forgetful and never finish projects :D
<nephele>
I'm on the other side, i can never start new projects :D
<skirst>
TDE and qt3 well, have fun folks. i don't understand why they do what they do, but kudos to them.
<Begasus>
skirst, helps to write things down (I get to easaly side-tracked)
<Begasus>
using github's wiki for that lately :P
<nephele>
skirst: i guess some nostalgia, and some "this oughto work, why doesnt it in qt5, it worked before!"
<nephele>
like how kde4 had /working/ window tabs, but plasma had this in their "not implemented yet from kde4" list for a long time... untill they removed that list
<skirst>
i ported most of my qt5 stuff to 6 already. it was actually easier than i anticipated
<Begasus>
lol skirst ... well, I'm not "that" old :P
<skirst>
i'm the dog in that clip :D
<Begasus>
Plenty dogs around here, they keep me young (at times) ;)
<skirst>
dogs are the best
<Begasus>
atm 6 newborns here (probably 2 still on the way)
<skirst>
nephele: i use plasma daily, it's way better but i do remember the dark dark days of kde4
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<Begasus>
hi jmairboeck
<jmairboeck>
hi Begasus
<nephele>
I used kde4 i kind of liked oxygen dark style :)
<nephele>
I guess at some point i will just make myself a controllook foer haiku inspired by macos aqua theme, and kde oxygen
<nephele>
(also so we have something in the other direction of that flat decorator! :P, had that once installed and though i broke the app_server with a patch for clipping, when really just the flat decorator made the stuff appear wierd to me)
<skirst>
jmairboeck: howdy, i saw recently you were interested in adding haiku MIDI support to portmidi or was it rtmidi library? any luck? i'm interested in that as well
<skirst>
jmairboeck: i have a MIDI backend for haiku in my synth, i'd be more than happy to share if that's the case
<skirst>
nephele: yeah the first kde4 oxygen stuff was nice. the crashes not so much :D
<nephele>
the crashes add flavor :D
<skirst>
i held onto xfce until shit calmed down
<skirst>
gnome. nope. lol
<nephele>
I once switched to ubuntu years ago, it was good, it worked! and then they switched to unity in an update, i didn't find anything anymore and went back to windows ;)
<skirst>
kubuntu ftw!
<nephele>
not sure why "just rip out the desktop and replace it with something else" is considered a good update strategy but... you know
<nephele>
Currently i'm using "ubuntu whatever lts" on my machine if i have to use linux, i am really lost when i try to use kde .-.
<skirst>
and then they went and did and quit the Mir desktop. bleh
<nephele>
(also, kde has no webkit browser, gnome has one... kde only has a chromium based one)
<nephele>
yeah it's lots of "now this and that"
<nephele>
of course i'm still using X11 because gnome-web on the gnome-desktop with wayland gives me black screen. Obviously
<skirst>
switched to arch based distros. canonical can get stuffed
<nephele>
though my interest in using gnome-web or epiphany is also that i have something to compare to for our webkit :)
<jmairboeck>
skirst: I didn't really look into that very much for now, but I plan to work on that some more. Frescobaldi uses PortMidi for MIDI support, so it would be nice to support that.
<nephele>
skirst: sadly there seems to be no "good" option for "I just want a distro that works and leaves me alone"
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<skirst>
i just got tired of broken release updates. i tinker too much. i need a rolling release like manjaro or, well, haiku-nightly :D
<nephele>
i only use nightly because i dev the system and such, otherwise i would use the betas, they are very stable imo already
<nephele>
(also i got some beta1 dvd from pulkomandy, it's suprising how good those work too to boot on machines... sadly updating those to a newer beta is a headache, but it can be done :D)
<skirst>
jmairboeck: the midi2 kit is very easy to work with i found. i just wrapped around a BMidiLocalConsumer object. the whole thing is less than 200 loc
<jmairboeck>
skirst: ok, thanks, good to know. Let's see if I can get it to work.
<skirst>
jmairboeck: i just reimplement the Data() function of BMidiLocalConsumer and fire it off to an abstracted MIDI message processor.
<skirst>
of course, this is midi input only. i don't have output
<skirst>
BMidiRoster is pretty easy to work with too, for connecting devices
<jmairboeck>
ok, I care most about output. Frescobaldi would support input too, but I have no way to test or use that myself
<skirst>
you could use vmpk for testing input. i think it's in HaikuPorts
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<skirst>
nope. i was mistaken. the midikeyboard app works too though
<nephele>
you can install a midifont and then use midiplayer and midikeyboard to test it
<nephele>
no physicsal midi output in that setup, but it works :)
<jmairboeck>
ok, thank you. I actually have not really any experience with MIDI stuff (yet)
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<nephele>
(Maybe I'll rebuild that again once... with the EFI tools and stuff, as a rescue linux or smth)
<skirst>
well, maybe more like 4 or 5
<skirst>
slackware. my first love of linux
<skirst>
mannnnnnn. fond memories
<rennj>
the rootfs is easier to build with less than 200 pkgs
<rennj>
the kernel is no way slackwares
<skirst>
na, the distro itself. no bullshit. i loved it
<rennj>
the kernel pair with vmware is always a pain, and patching of vmmon/vmnet ensues
<skirst>
slackware was the first linux i really felt home with. redhat was always too well, you know, "professional"
<rennj>
i was more like walnut creek cdrom for $50, had freebsd/linux which one had drivers for the hardware... while solaris 2.5.1 for x86 was $600.00
<rennj>
it was easy choice...and came with compilers unlike solaris
<rennj>
i was doing solaris at work, so it would have been nice to have at home, but meh
<skirst>
walnut creek. damn dude, get out of my time machine lol
<skirst>
i've only really paid money for two OS's in my life. redhat 5, and BeOS 4.5.
* Anarchos
needs a sample of a BGroupLayout containing a BScrollView containing a BListView
<Begasus>
looks like 3.11 :)
<rennj>
yeah for sure
<skirst>
i actually have a functioning c64, expansion ram, 2 functioning 1541 floppy drives. just no functioning display and all the disks are basically bit-rotted
<rennj>
workgroups
<Begasus>
yep
<Begasus>
first one I made Internet connections with 0_°
<Begasus>
lol
<skirst>
heh i have win 3.11 installed on dosbox on haiku with turbo pascal installed
<Begasus>
ah right, still have the win95 disks somewhere I think :D
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<nephele>
Anarchos: I don't think FL studio will be ported to haiku anytime soon
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<nephele>
(there is no real commercial interest, and i doubt their codebase is that easy to port to a new platform :)
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<nephele>
skirst: if it uses just gtk3 you can try to compile it
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<B2IA>
(Butler) Rebooted on Sun May 15 15:10:29 2022 GMT
<B2IA>
Oops, sorry about that log leakage.
<B2IA>
(Butler) Welcome to BeShare.agmsmith.ca.
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<legendaryamerican>
I'm thinking cabbage audio is probably the fastest way to get vsts to haiku.
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<legendaryamerican>
You'd want to negotiate a non gpl with cabbage for use with haiku.
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<legendaryamerican>
Whereas Juce pro and juce indie is non gpl.
<legendaryamerican>
In fact they're hiring at Juce.. so...
<legendaryamerican>
It's a way to get an inside person.
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<legendaryamerican>
Even zenbeats on Android doesn't support vst.. so.. I think the companies are aware there's a problem
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<legendaryamerican>
If the Truckers don't stop their vehicle nonsense...tell you what. We will block cbfm
<legendaryamerican>
Seeing its approved but does not exist yet.. neither does cbhd.
<legendaryamerican>
The trucking community would police themselves then.
<legendaryamerican>
Over this.
<legendaryamerican>
Seeing in digital mode fm.. you can send id over packet.. meaning anyone can transmit and recieve on channel at the same time.
<legendaryamerican>
As I said.. the notch channels on am.. can be used for callbook..
<legendaryamerican>
Really with the a channels or notch channels.. in conjunction with GPS maps.. should be able to show you everyone in your area with a radio and their handle/id
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<legendaryamerican>
Seeing I said there's good reason to make the a channels digital on am. Digital am for voice sucks with cb width.
<legendaryamerican>
But Data only is fine. For digital cbfm-d.. use flac
<legendaryamerican>
Encoding.
<legendaryamerican>
(Sorry. That part is for another channel)
* phschafft
wonders what channel that could be for.
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<ermo[m]>
legendaryamerican: I have no idea what you're talking about (which is my problem), but is there any chance you could give a bit more context re. the value-add you're after? CB radio via haiku ...?
* ermo[m]
has no idea if people even use CB radios in the country where he lives
<ermo[m]>
Being able to display CB radio transponders with handle/id in real time on a map?
<ermo[m]>
(again, on haiku)
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<legendaryamerican>
Everything in my discussion past talking about zenbeats has nothing to do with haiku. It's off topic wrong channel.
<legendaryamerican>
It's Sunday. Cleaning up after church.. working in the studio. Probably getting a pizza later.
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<B2IA>
(ablyss) catsup
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<Begasus>
closing down here, g'night peeps
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<jason123santa>
usb tethering is said to be fixed and working but its not
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<PulkoMandy>
the driver is all new and was tested on 2 phones so far
<PulkoMandy>
if you have problems with it, please open a bugreport and include a syslog
<legendaryamerican>
You'd require less electronics if you used tie-1
<ermo[m]>
PulkoMandy: got a few minutes re. AltGr keymap stuff?
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<ermo[m]>
... guess not.
<jason123santa>
PulkoMandy and internet working fully?
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<jason123santa>
It says its connected but only works on some websites
<jason123santa>
And other things don't work
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) jason123santa, only working on some web sites? Sounds like the maximum packet size may need to be smaller, which we had to do for DSL connections back in the day, 1492 bytes per frame rather than 1500. There was a test using the Ping command to find the maximum packet size...
<B2IA>
(AGMS) An online search may turn up the details.
<jason123santa>
The same phone on the same computer works on linux usb tethering
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Maybe Linux has automatic max packet size detection?
<B2IA>
(AGMS) But of course, it could be lots of other things :-)
<jason123santa>
If I recall correctly i think it worked fine on freebsd
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<jason123santa>
Tried on another computer and still does not work
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<legendaryamerican>
So juce is hiring.. so we can send someone over looking for a job. We need a projucer port. I downloaded juce itself. It really has source but no makefiles.
<legendaryamerican>
Cabbage audio uses csound.. which used to run in beos quite well if recall.
<legendaryamerican>
But getting juce and cabbage audio is gonna strike up some interests in the kind of people who can build vst plugins in the level of cabbage and juce.. where if they have the time they can also learn some more in depth c++ code on haiku.
<legendaryamerican>
While doing it.
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