ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 2 commits to master [hrev58355] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=783b77b14f0b+%5Efbdac8d61eee
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 1abf2059a7ce - BFS: Adjust CachedNode::SetToWritable for consistency with SetTo.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 783b77b14f0b - BFS: Fix handling of the last_modified index.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58356] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=cc9ea55c59ff+%5E783b77b14f0b
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] cc9ea55c59ff - file_systems/QueryParser: Coerce types up front, and handle B_TIME_TYPE better.
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<AlienSoldier> i notice that mediaplayer have tread name with "audio in" and "audio ou". Not sure if the lack of t in "out" is a space limitation or a typo.
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<Begasus_32> morning peeps
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/95d752cd9cf6...54769a356048
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] mtl1979 54769a3 - autoconf_archive: build needs perl (#11353)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/54769a356048...156540a58635
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 156540a - mc: update to version 4.8.32. (#11355)
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/156540a58635...6c7b1dcb25a2
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Peppersawce 6c7b1dc - PrBoom-plus: add icon and menu entry (#11321)
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<Hanicef[m]> Is there a reason why sshd is enabled by default? For a desktop os, it doesn't make a lot of sense for it to be enabled and could be problematic security-wise if the user is unaware of it on, say, a public wifi.
<MonniTheCat> Even if the sshd is enabled, nobody can login as there is no password set and sshd doesn't allow login with empty password
<MonniTheCat> I've only ever seen Ubuntu allow ssh login with empty password...
<Begasus[m]> morning Hanicef Mika Lindqvist
<Begasus[m]> iirc there is a default login for ssh
<Begasus[m]> k, let's test this assert.h fix on nightly with kdevelop changes :)
<MonniTheCat> Begasus: I tried downgrading 32-bit Haiku to +113 before running HaikuPorter just to confirm my suspicion... But I haven't tried building anything else than expat yet...
<Begasus[m]> Mika Lindqvist I was wondering yesterday, do you try to install packages build from anything higher then +113 on a default install?
<Begasus[m]> eg, package build on nightly won't work to install on beta5
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: On 64-bit Haiku I tried packages from +122 and +125, on 32-bit Haiku I only tested +125 and nightly...
<Begas_VM> packages from +122 on +113 ?
<MonniTheCat> I suspect the issue is still running pkgman or SoftwareUpdater before HaikuPorter...
<MonniTheCat> Begas_VM: Mixing +122 and +113 did work, but mixing +125 or nightly on +113 didn't work...
<Begas_VM> I can still install packages build for beta4 on a beta5, no issues there
<Begas_VM> it's not intended to mix packages from +125 on +113
<Begas_VM> packages build on +125*
<MonniTheCat> It literally allows mixing packages from up to two patch releases of beta 5, but there is no limitation if the base hrev is different...
<Begas_VM> higher doesn't work on lower, lower should work on higher hrev
<MonniTheCat> higher does work on lower... I've used nightly on +122...
<Begas_VM> a package I just build: requires: haiku>=r1~beta5_hrev58356-1
<Begas_VM> that won't work/install on beta5
<Begas_VM> and it's not intended for it
<MonniTheCat> I had +122 bootloader and kernel on my main installation for weeks before waddlesplash fixed the memory corruption issue in nightly bootloader...
<Begas_VM> yeah, just full-sync and be done?
<Begas_VM> did the same here
<MonniTheCat> Begas_VM: full-sync doesn't work when mixing versions (beta5 and nightly)...
<Begas_VM> you shouldn't mix beta5 and nightly
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<MonniTheCat> Begas_VM: I just tested it to prove that it partially works... not every hrev pairs can be mixed and it doesn't work with more than 2 hrevs...
<Begasus[m]> I don't see the point on those checks, it's a known thing to not use nightly packages on beta5, hence they reverted the builld for that "firefox" package on beta5
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<MonniTheCat> Begasus: My network adapter is not supported on beta5, but is supported on nightlies... so I can't use git, BeShare or Vision with beta5...
<Begasus[m]> well, good, then use nigthly, just know that building packages could brake when building on beta5 (as that is what buildmasters use), seen it happen before, those had to wait for a next beta
<Begasus[m]> for the record, internal wifi isn't supported here too, hence I bought a external USB one
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: That's why I tried to fool HaikuPorter to use headers and libraries from +113 and not from current hrev...
<Begasus[m]> OK, explains why you are getting weird errors :)
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: korli suggesting using "pkgman full-sync" is bad advice as I alrady pointed out... But otherwise it's possible to mix individual binary packages from different hrevs of haiku_devel...
<MonniTheCat> s/alrady/already/, s/haiku_devel/haiku\_devel/
<Begasus[m]> I think afaik you are the only one trying to mix up things like that, building haiku/haiku_devel from source can be a good thing to check out some issues/errors (done it too), but not mixing current hrev with an older hrev
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: Even though I have been developer for 41 years, I still think as normal user, which means I do stupid things just to prove something isn't fool proof (yet)... Most new users aren't professional developers...
<Begasus[m]> PS, you should go back to +111 then, as that is what buildmasters use: /boot/home/haikuports/packages/haiku-r1~beta5_hrev57937_111-1-x86_64.hpkg
<Begasus[m]> heh
<Begasus[m]> I'm not a developer in any way :)
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: The beta5 ISO images are +113 and I can't boot raw images, those fail to find the partition...
<Begasus[m]> We all got our isseus :D mine is that it doesn't find a valid boot partition now :)
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: I did remove activated-packages when my installation didn't find boot partition... basically it contained too many conflicting packages...
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<Begasus[m]> I'm the king of conflicting packages! :D
<MonniTheCat> I have old style MBR boot now with no EFI partition or anything modern...
<Begasus[m]> needed to boost the specs for 64bit nightly in VM :)
<MonniTheCat> Begasus[m]: I keep running out of disk space when building 64-bit Haiku and no custom settings... And for some weird reason it doesn't work without userland_fs...
<Begasus[m]> when I had Haiku running on bare metal it went pretty smooth building Haiku from source
<Begasus[m]> now that I think of it, could the anyboot images somehow prevent this booting from USB? I still have those on my partition ...
<Begasus[m]> or maybe even having the Haiku sources and build packages on that partition?
<MonniTheCat> I can only boot from anyboot image if I have empty hard disk... after I install on hard disk, booting from anyboot ISO will fail...
<Begasus[m]> still got Win11 on here, don't wan't to nuke it (yet) :)
<MonniTheCat> I tried putting 32-bit Haiku and 64-bit Haiku on same PC on different drives, but that doesn't break boot... only having CD boot enabled will make finding boot partition fail...
<Begasus[m]> 32bit doesn't boot on this laptop, but have been using dual boot for Haiku on others, worked fine
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<Begasus[m]> dual boot as in 32bit + 64bit
<Begasus[m]> morning Anarchos :)
<Anarchos> hello Begasus[m]
<MonniTheCat> I tried different hrevs on CD and only some hrevs caused boot failure...
<Anarchos> Begasus[m]: i made progress on the ticket #3545
<Begasus[m]> Anarchos nice!
<Anarchos> Begasus[m]: now i try to understand all the layers of the scsi driver, to know where i should put my modification.
<Hanicef[m]> <MonniTheCat> "Even if the sshd is enabled..." <- Even in that case, i don't see a reason for it to be enabled by default. Sshd is mainly for servers, and is not normally used on haiku, so disabled by default makes more sense to me.
<Begasus[m]> I'm not a developer Hanicef, but I use ssh-agent daily :)
<MonniTheCat> I use my Haiku installations from my work PC all the time... I have even used Haiku through serial cable...
<Hanicef[m]> Begasus[m]: Ssh-agent is client-side, i'm talking about the server, sshd.
<Begasus[m]> see, that's why I'm no developer ;)
<Hanicef[m]> This is technically more sysadmin stuff, but i see your point :P
<Begasus[m]> PS, NeoChat 24.11.80 is running pretty smooth on Haiku atm, just had to disable notifications
<Begasus[m]> Trying out KDevelop-24.11.80 now with qtwebengine disabled
<MonniTheCat> I need to reinstall irssi as I had to wipe the partition to resize it...
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<|cos|> euhm. sshd isn't designed to let anyone in without a valid password != implementation is necessarily fully bug-free.
<|cos|> while software from the openbsd project is among the highest quality in the world, exposing a service is always a risk.
* |cos| is sure hoping sshd needs to be explicitly enabled once haiku reaches release candiate versions
<MonniTheCat> I'm not even counting how many serious bugs there has been in OpenSSH... Some were unfixed for over 10 years...
<MonniTheCat> What we call SSH nowadays is just TLS... SSH itself was deprecated a long time ago...
<phschafft> there we go again...
<Hanicef[m]> MonniTheCat: No, it wasn't. Ssh is still the standard for remote shell access on servers. But again, haiku is not a server os, so it doesn't make sense here.
<Hanicef[m]> Also, @[|cos|]'s argument is just *more* of a reason for it to be disabled by default
<MonniTheCat> Hanicef[m]: It's not standard, there is almost as many implementations as there is computers on internet...
<Hanicef[m]> MonniTheCat: Well, what alternatives are there? Tls can't be used for remote shell access alone, and you can even run it on top of ssh if you like - it fully supports that
<MonniTheCat> Hanicef[m]: I haven't used ssh in about 5 years, but I have used TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3 almost every day...
<phschafft> the problem is that MonniTheCat likes to complain about things and then tell how everything was better in the past or something. last time he was unabled to actually point to any real problem with ssh. I think he just doesn't like it's colour, shape, or the weather or something.
* Anarchos reminds that enabling/disabling sshd is just a checkbox in NetworkPreferences. Something casual user doesn't need to bother, and power user will easily finds out.
<phschafft> Anarchos: personally I found it was done nicely.
<Hanicef[m]> phschafft: I'm not against it per-se, but imo the server should be disabled by default, as @Anarchos pointed out
<phschafft> having ssh disabled on a desktop by default surely makes sense. starting with it just not needing system resources if it doesn't run. but it is also very nice to have it installed by default, so in case you need to fix something you have it without more steps needed.
<phschafft> Hanicef[m]: I think we all agree on that one.
<Hanicef[m]> I can look into that during the weekend, then. Changing it should be a simple one-line change in the code.
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<Begas_VM> whoah!! :) https://0x0.st/X5z6.png
<Begas_VM> back to beta5 :)
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