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<rkjnsn_>
Hey, all. I understand the need to prevent abuse, but I think the decision to prevent access via the matrix.org bridge makes it much less user friendly to follow the project and ask questions / get help.
<rkjnsn_>
As a contributor to the project, I have enjoyed using Element to easily follow the various channels, as it allows easy access from multiple devices and keeps track of what messages I have already seen. It also made it easy to contribute to the conversation when I had something to add.
<rkjnsn_>
Using a combination of the whitequark logs and oftc web chat is a much inferior experience, and even as a software engineer, I have don't have the time or energy to figure out how to set up and maintain my own IRC bouncer / et cetera (or my own Matrix relay) that seems to be needed to have a good experience.
<rkjnsn_>
It seems that the Matrix anti-abuse team is happy to engage with Asahi Linux to improve the situation, and I would humbly request that you do so to enable a much friendlier experience for those without an IRC setup or the time / energy / technical know-how to set one up.
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<rkjnsn_>
(Re-enable, I should say.)
<bluetail>
rkjnsn_ I can recommend running thelounge 24/7. Thats my setup... On a mac mini m1. It is very simple and you can just grab the docker image or do a native installment. All you need is a second device, and then you access it through the browser. You should be able to figure that, you are a software engineer. There are cheap low power machines you
<rkjnsn_>
I probably *could* figure that out. And I *could* buy a second device to set something like that up. But that assumes I have the time, space, energy, stable internet connection, and desire to tinker with such things outside of work. That won't be true for many people, and I don't think it should be a prerequisite for being part of the community.
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<rkjnsn_>
Having such a barrier to entry also works against having a diverse community, as folks with fewer resources, family responsibilities, et cetera, will be less able to join and contribute to the community.
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<bluetail>
Issue is written on twitter: Matrix does not provide a method to moderate users properly. In my opinion it is a privilege to be part of this community. Matrix has a bad reputation for good reasons. You do not even need a bouncer or more resources! You could just leave on your machine! And be real: A second machine that costs like 10 to 30$ is too
<bluetail>
much if >you< want to have a bouncer or the like? I do not understand. The people here... they work their ass off and getting trolls through matrix that arent moderated who harass is not acceptable. Those trolls target those who are different specifically. So, keeping matrix out promotes diversity and inclusion!
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<sven>
is it easily possible to setup somethiing like "accounts on matrix needs to be x days old before being allowed to talk"?
<cy8aer>
IMHO the main problem with Matrix is that most people do _not_ use the system as it is designed: They use the reference server. And with this all the centralized problems occur (as we can see with the actual problem). If it would be used more de-centralized there would not be any problem of a centralized abusing because then you can do the abusing stuff on your own on the decentralized system. I still have no problem with matrix and writing this from a...
<cy8aer>
... decentralized server with a own bridge.
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<rkjnsn_>
I saw that the Matrix folks reached out on Twitter offering support for finding solutions that would address the problem, and developing new ones if needed. Finding a way to prevent trolls from harassing users is absolutely necessary to promote diversity, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm asking to work with Matrix to find a way to do that without making participation in the community unnecessarily burdensome for other folks.
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<rkjnsn_>
"accounts on matrix needs to be x days old before being allowed to talk" (ideally only when there is an active troll campaign to allow new users to ask questions at other times) sounds like a great potential solution the Matrix folks could be asked to implement if it doesn't already exist.
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<sven>
the problem is that that would take quite some time and effort when we already have tools to deal with this on irc. i'm sure if someone trusted volunteers to do that we might be able to re-enable matrix
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<sven>
i'd personally prefer if the bridge was still available but I also don't want to spend any time on this personally
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<bluetail>
that and if they knew they could just create accounts today, wait say 180 days, and continue to harass. Usually, theres this obnoxious feature Discord does to keep spammers out; And I hate to say it, but it works... Require users to put a "real" mobile phone number in order to write
<bluetail>
By the way thats the reason I cannot use discord
<sven>
so far the accounts were all very new. "wait 14 days to participate" would be a good start but what really has been working since the wii days in ~2008 are so are IP bans
<bluetail>
Cause I do not share my number. And because Discord keeps shadowbanning+realbanning people with VPNs. Which is really an issue. So if you are 'too different', you are kept out
<sven>
we can also easily do something like "you need to have a nickserv account for x days + not come from a known VPN exit to talk" on IRC with "message an +o for exceptions" if it gets worse
<bluetail>
if you do IP bans, you'd prohibit 'popular' VPN use... Not that people can set it up themselves ... but its quite a different thing than sharing the same IP with many people
<rkjnsn_>
"<bluetail> You could just leave on your machine!" I could force my laptop to stay awake and plugged in when I'm not otherwise taking it somewhere, yes. But that's because I'm privileged enough to have the requisite private space in a stable home with stable internet and stable electricity. It's also a lot to ask just to follow one open source project I donate to.
<sven>
it's far from perfect but stuff like this has been working since 10+ years
<sven>
and as I said, if someone we trust (i.e. someone who's been hanging out for a while here) who knows how to deal with moderation on the matrix side and volunteers to take care of it I'm sure marcan could be convinced to allow the matrix bridge again
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<sven>
but right now even the small barrier of "connect to irc" seems to be enough to keep the trolls away so unfortunately this is some matrix issue right now :(
<rkjnsn_>
@sven, that also sounds like a potentially good solution (though I would indeed need to message a +o for an exception since I use a VPN).
<bluetail>
Why is it that matrix is the thing to use anyways? A user on twitter recommended xmpp. Would that be feasible? Or would that be even more work?
<bluetail>
rkjnsn_ me too. Currently on mullvad... But yea. Perhaps registering the NickServ is a good requirement, along with the time period
<cy8aer>
please no holy war now...
<sven>
Right now we don’t need anything like that but rules like those are easy to enforce on irc and hard/impossible with the matrix bridge
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<rkjnsn_>
The Matrix bridge allows registering with nickserv.
<rkjnsn_>
so requiring a NickServ registration of x days to talk should work even for Matrix users.
<mps>
(imo matrix will ruin old good irc, but I don't care)
<rkjnsn_>
“right now even the small barrier of "connect to irc" seems to be enough to keep the trolls away”. This is kind of surprising, actually, since if one isn't interested in following the conversation and just wants to troll, connecting via https://webchat.oftc.net/ over a VPN seems to work now, and is even easier than creating new accounts on Matrix. (No registration required, just pick a new VPN endpoint and nick and connect again.
<bluetail>
wondering if they can do something against the annoying matrix messages causing those messaging issues. Its kind of annoying
<mps>
bluetail: yes, some matrix msgs is also annoying but I 'learned' to filter them, by skip
<mps>
s/is/are/
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<stintel>
how usable is the broadcom wifi in m1/m2 under linux? I remember getting my current xps13 with a broadcom chip, which didn't even see 5GH networks, had dell replace it with an intel for free back then
<j`ey>
in general people seem happy with it
<ChaosPrincess>
pretty alright, as long as you dont use 2.4 ghz network and bt together
<ChaosPrincess>
otherwise bt may or may not be flaky
<stintel>
but seeing as soldered on wifi is becoming increasingly popular (xps13 plus, thinkpad z13, ..) I'm gonna have to compromise anyway, so I'm considering an m2
<stintel>
ChaosPrincess: so that confirms 5GH is working?
<j`ey>
yep
<stintel>
cool, thanks!
<stintel>
hmm, no 6GH support it seems. bummer, that might change my mind again
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<local>
hello. has anyone been able to get DKMS modules loaded? specificially, trying to load binder_linux to get Android binder for Android emulation working.
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<local>
could place a small bounty on it if anyone had some free time.
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<breadcrumb>
greetings
<breadcrumb>
can someone my messages coming through?
<breadcrumb>
can someone confirm my messages coming through?
<j`ey>
yes
<breadcrumb>
excuse me for the spam, i had to change clients because matrix did not work
<breadcrumb>
( and this one doesn't seem to support cummont editing ) nevertheless, I would like to ask if someone possible encountered the issue of KDE booting to black screen + mouse pointer after updating KDE packages?
<breadcrumb>
*possibly - I am dealing with this right now, collected logs from the plasmashell service but I can't seem to determine the issue
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<breadcrumb>
so the weird thing with it is that when i run `systemctl --user restart plasma-plasmashell` sometimes it does this without a problem but sometimes it dumps some kind of apple_mca error which i am yet to dissect
<breadcrumb>
because i am looking at this through console so i need to see how i will actually pipe the text into a file
<j`ey>
the mca error is likely unrelatede
<breadcrumb>
hmm ok
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