ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<LinuxUserHaiku> hello everybody!
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<LinuxUserHaiku> @MelMalik i joined to #mame channel but it says that i MUST be identified and verified with services
<LinuxUserHaiku> oh sorry
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<LinuxUserHaiku> @andreasdr[m] hi!
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] davidkaroly pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56460] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=537d67ae5c79+%5E799ab823bbe7
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 537d67ae5c79 - kernel/arm: fix frame pointer after unwinding iframe
<LinuxUserHaiku> @nekobot hi!
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<LinuxUserHaiku> @jessicah hi!
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<andreasdr[m]> Hi LinuxUserHaiku
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<andreasdr[m]> Good morning
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<extrowerk_> PulkoMandy: you have worked recently on fuse. As far as i remember ,you have patched fuse 3 first, but then you have downgraded it to 2.x as almost nothing implements fuse3 for now. Do i remember correctly?
<PulkoMandy> Yes
<PulkoMandy> We are compatible with fuse 2.9.9 now
<extrowerk_> i have just updated the sshfs fuse package, sadly the last major version requires fuse3. maybe it is the exception.
<extrowerk_> I have compiled the tun driver included in the haiku source tree, but it doesn1t shows any life signal in the syslog.
<extrowerk_> btw, would it be possible to split the syslog somehow to system and userland part?
<extrowerk_> also a syslog viewer sometlhing like osx have could be useful.
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<PulkoMandy> yes, sshfs is developed by the fuse team and was migrated to fuse 3, but as far as I could see pretty much no one else migrated
<PulkoMandy> linux distros still ship both fuse2 and fuse3
<PulkoMandy> and now sshfs is unmaintained I think
<PulkoMandy> why would you use syslog for userland stuff? it's an old unix API
<PulkoMandy> I have used BeDC Developer Console for some things and it is a lot better, but the viewer is closed source so we need to rewrite one
<PulkoMandy> but it uses BMessage for logs, no syslog things from the 70s
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<extrowerk_> PulkoMandy: i am not in love with the logging infrastructure or something, i just dislike to read syslog, where one line is a kernel log, and the next line is some userland stuff. it is an unnecessary context switch for my brain.
<extrowerk_> i'd like to be able to filter out the not-interesting stuff.
<extrowerk_> so a per-program catalogized logging infra would be nice.
<extrowerk_> with a gui client
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<PulkoMandy> yes, but I would not build that over syslog which is very limited
<extrowerk_> ofc it is not ideal for that.
<extrowerk_> however one could improve the situation if every output would be prefixed by the name of the log emitting program.
<extrowerk_> like "<programname> : output"
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<extrowerk_> probably back then when BeOS was still a thing it was acceptable to output everything into the syslog, but nowadays it is a bit oldschool. I have to say i have no other experience with logging infrastructures, except dmesg.
<extrowerk_> but afaik dmesg contains only kernel messages
<augiedoggie> it might be nice to have something like Clue as a part of Haiku
<augiedoggie> it does filtering and all that stuff
<extrowerk_> augiedoggie: i know a game with this name.
<extrowerk_> augiedoggie: a million years ago i have read about the Project Looking Glass ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass ).
<extrowerk_> It was something like ogl accelerated desktop, where a program window was represented by a 3d box. you could for example rotate the window and write on the backside, as it was a card or something.
<extrowerk_> i think it would be nice to have a "B-side" of any window, where one could see the program logic
<extrowerk_> maybe it is too naive or impossible, but this idea makes sense to me.
<augiedoggie> that would be interesting
<extrowerk_> i have no exerience with gui programming, or with programming of any kind, but i heard gui programming can be an adventure for beginners on Haiku, therefore a structured realtime overview about the layout could be useful
<augiedoggie> i thought the Be API was easy to learn when i started many years ago
<extrowerk_> i also had a tangential idea about the intel ME / amd PSP: they are basically a domx-1, therefore they have access to everything above them, so they could be a terribly useful stuff for monitoring the device during system-programming / bootstrapping. it would be nice to make it accessible, so one could see what's going on on the machine without using serial cables or UARTing / or printing stuff to console.
<extrowerk_> there could be a special key-combo which would switch to the monitor interface, where one could see all the register states, current running processes, etc, like an integrated hw/sw debugger
<extrowerk_> i don't know if it is actually possible, but i assume it would make sense.
<extrowerk_> sadly i have PTSD about computers and programs, so i am not able to do what i imagine anymore.
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<netpositive> PTSD 8)
<PulkoMandy> have a look at smalltalk because it did all these things back in 1976 already
<PulkoMandy> and also I think they invented the beos style zindow tabs? or at least were one of the early users of these
<PulkoMandy> I think someone at Be was taking inspiration from it
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<extrowerk_> PulkoMandy: maybe there was inspiration taken from smalltalk, but the BeOS window tab is a carbon copy of the Taligent one: https://www.applegazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/12defiantdemo2.JPG
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<netpositive> extrowerk_: "The founding lead engineer of Pink, Erich Ringewald, departed Apple in 1990 to become the lead software architect at Be Inc. and design the new BeOS."
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<andreasdr[m]> Coool. Thanks for the info netpositive
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<Vidrep_64> Hi PulkoMandy
<PulkoMandy> hi
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<Vidrep_64> Just letting you know HaikuWebKit 64 bit build fails
<Vidrep_64> /boot/system/develop/tools/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-haiku/11.2.0/../../../../x86_64-unknown-haiku/bin/ld: cannot find -lunistring
<Vidrep_64> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
<Vidrep_64> ninja: build stopped: subcommand failed.
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<Vidrep_64> HaikuWebKit now needs libpsl and libpsl_devel packages to build
<Vidrep_64> Should I open a ticket on trac, or is this sufficient information?
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<PulkoMandy> You need libpsl_devel and libunistring_devel, yes
<Vidrep_64> Thanks for that!
<PulkoMandy> No need for a ticket, I know why I added new dependencies, I just didn't have time to update the readme
<Vidrep_64> I'll try again after installing libunistring
<Vidrep_64> PulkoMandy, build is good. thanks again.
<PulkoMandy> Thanks for the testing :)
<Vidrep_64> It still crashes on quit, just like before :)
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<jjido> Hello #haiku
<PulkoMandy> yes, didn't check that bug yet
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<jjido> I would like to talk with one of the main Haiku developers for my Medium page, would you be interested?
<jjido> This is a previous interview I had with an open source developer: https://medium.com/@denisbredelet/jxl-art-a-talk-with-jon-sneyers-7e9fe2dd1a4a
<jjido> The format would be similar
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