ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<AlaskanEmily> If I want to use cooperative multitasking for part of a program, is there a Haiku/BeOS native way to do that?
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<Skipp_OSX> uhhhhhhh I mean sorta
<Skipp_OSX> I don't think you are asking what you think you're asking, I think you mean that you want to create a new thread
<Skipp_OSX> which there is a beos/haiku way of doing yes: https://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/TheKernelKit_ThreadsAndTeams_Overview.html
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<AlaskanEmily> Skipp_OSX: Yeah I saw that, I'm thinking more like libco where you can cheaply change tasks on a single OS thread. I can just use libco or ucontext or something similar, but I was just curious if Haiku or BeOS had their own thing like that already.
<Skipp_OSX> apparently not
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/aa327272bcba...5c95ffb2371a
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 5c95ffb - jbigkit, don't install the static library (#8313)
<zdykstra> Another day, another bunch of fixes by Begasus :)
<Begasus> And cleanup zdykstra ;)
<Begasus> jgmod is dead ... time to retire ;)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-2/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/5c95ffb2371a...8f95d964fd87
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 8f95d96 - jgmod, retire, unused (dead links) recipe (#8314)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/8f95d964fd87...a11af7b6e650
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus a11af7b - libnpupnp, cleanup (#8315)
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/a11af7b6e650...acb57c8c0f8d
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus acb57c8 - liboauth, cleanup, use libVersionCompat (#8316)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/acb57c8c0f8d...bf87d62cabb3
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus bf87d62 - kquickimageditor, cleanup (#8317)
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/bf87d62cabb3...3c3899637131
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 3c38996 - libotr, disable static library, cleanup, create tools package (#8318)
<trungnt2910[m]> pkgman on Linux.
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<x512[m]> What was needed to implement?
<x512[m]> Waiting for running app_server on Linux 😀
<x512[m]> Should be possible by implementing custom accelerant add-on.
<Begasus> nice trungnt2910[m] !
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<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "What was needed to implement?" <- `launch_daemon`, `registrar`, `package_daemon`, and `pkgman` itself.
<trungnt2910[m]> On the kernel side I have to implement the ioctls for the packagefs driver.
<trungnt2910[m]> And a lot, lot, lot, lot of Haiku-ism syscalls.
<x512[m]> trungnt2910[m]: Are original binaries used for `registrar` etc.?
<trungnt2910[m]> On the high level it's tempting to say that Haiku is a UNIX-like OS, but when one dives deep into it to do things like HyClone they'll feel that Haiku is as different from UNIX as Windows is.
<trungnt2910[m]> x512[m]: All of these are original binaries downloaded from official haiku-os.org sites.
<trungnt2910[m]> Only libroot and runtime_loader is modified.
<trungnt2910[m]> * Only libroot and runtime_loader are modified.
<x512[m]> Can you show process tree when running pkgman?
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<trungnt2910[m]> launch_daemon is automatically started by hyclone_server. It then launches other required daemons (most of which dies nearly immediately because of stubs), including package_daemon.
<x512[m]> What is level of isolation between Linux and Haiku? Are same PID used? Can Haiku run Linux application and opposite?
<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "Waiting for running app_server..." <- Are there any existing protocols to forward Haiku app windows to an external server?
<trungnt2910[m]> x512[m]: The same PIDs are used. However, syscalls like `get_team_info` do not work on native Linux applications.
<trungnt2910[m]> A Haiku shell can start any Linux binary, or even Windows ones.
<x512[m]> Yes. There is TCP based remote desktop protocol that work in a way similar to RDP.
<trungnt2910[m]> A Linux shell can get to Haiku by using haiku_loader.
<x512[m]> There is HTML5 client for app_server remote desktop.
<trungnt2910[m]> x512[m]: Is it based on widget forwarding or framebuffer forwarding?
<Begasus> bbl, cu peeps
<x512[m]> It is based on vector drawing commands forwarding.
<x512[m]> It works, but not polished yet.
<trungnt2910[m]> In the far future something that forwards Haiku app windows and let the server render itself would be nice. Something like a remote `app_server` or the reverse of `xlibe`.
<trungnt2910[m]> Then I could host a WinUI3 app server and then forward hyclone apps there :)
<x512[m]> app_server may need some hacks to run with remote mode only and without local screen.
<x512[m]> How file system integration is handled? Can Haiku applications access Linux FS?
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<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "How file system integration is..." <- Of course. Everything is on the Linux's filesystem.
<trungnt2910[m]> Currently the Linux's FS can be accessed through a magic mount called /SystemRoot.
<x512[m]> Can packagefs be accessed from Linux?
<trungnt2910[m]> "packagefs" is nothing more than just a bunch of packages extracted on disk.
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<trungnt2910[m]> This has the limitation of not being able to activate and deactivate packages instantly like on Haiku.
<x512[m]> HPKG mounting is not working yet?
<trungnt2910[m]> Currently not, but implementing the ioctls required for activating packages and using Linux inotify to watch /boot/system/packages for changes is on my to-do list.
<trungnt2910[m]> Currently any changes to the activation state (installing or removing a package) requires restarting HyClone. hyclone_server on startup synchronizes /boot/system/packages with the rest of the environment using a simple extraction technique.
<trungnt2910[m]> In the future it might be possible to use packagefs with Haiku's userland_fs, but this will require a lot of work as the emulated apps work on the assumption that all emulated Haiku files have a corresponding path on the host's disk.
<trungnt2910[m]> Or we can implement packagefs using FUSE and mount it directly on Linux.
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<trungnt2910[m]> Also... what is AF_LINK? What is it used for?
<x512[m]> Something inherited from FreeBSD.
<trungnt2910[m]> What is it used for? I see pkgman wanting it a lot despite being able to function without it. Also, ifconfig seems to depend on it to function.
<x512[m]> I don't know. It seems nothing specific to Haiku. Pure *BSD thing.
<x512[m]> I am not detailed at networking stuff.
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<trungnt2910[m]> Returning `B_INTERRUPT` on a HTTP error is so confusing. Took me a half hour `strace`ing and hunting for `EINTR` while the actual cause is a HTTP 416...
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<trungnt2910[m]> Why does the main Haiku package depend on a Japanese font?
<bjorkintosh> because the haiku form was first created in Japan.
<trungnt2910[m]> It's not like there're actual
<trungnt2910[m]> 俳句 poems embedded in the OS though...
<bjorkintosh> hahah.
<bjorkintosh> trungnt2910[m], https://8325.org/haiku/
<bjorkintosh> I don't know why to be honest. but the link I just posted is why the OS is named haiku.
<trungnt2910[m]> But those poems are in English and only written in that style. I don't see any Japanese text (and therefore I don't see the need for a Japanese font installed by default).
<Habbie> i recall looking at this and finding that the dependency was indirect
<Habbie> but i could be misremembering
<trungnt2910[m]> pkgman install -y noto installs only noto.
<trungnt2910[m]> This is a dump of `haiku-r4<some things here>.hpkg`.
<trungnt2910[m]> Does pkgman have an option to fix all missing dependencies?
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<Habbie> ah, ok
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<waddlesplash> trungnt2910[m]: it's in the fallback section of app_server so we support CJK characters out of the box
<waddlesplash> otherwise if you selected JP in FirstBootPrompt it wouldn't work
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56901] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8079adc050f3+%5Ed8eeb8a4cc50
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8079adc050f3 - libroot: fix path inconsistency in the find path API.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56902] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=40e5560a3ce0+%5E8079adc050f3
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 40e5560a3ce0 - BOutlineListView: fixed expansion causing items to disappear
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56903] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=86ee86f5a922+%5E40e5560a3ce0
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 86ee86f5a922 - HaikuDepot: Nickname Length
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<Skipp_OSX> heyo I'm here, waddlesplash you're right it's all bad but I can't fix things the way you want me to.
<waddlesplash> lol
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<waddlesplash> what about this: move all the "real" mouse-down logic of TTeamMenuItem to another method (e.g. TTeamMenuItem::HandleMouseDown() or something) which accepts all applicable parameters, i.e. from the BMessage
<waddlesplash> and then TTeamMenuItem::MouseDown extracts parameters from CurrentMessage and calls HandleMouseDown (or whatever it's named)
<Skipp_OSX> yeah I guess I could do that
<waddlesplash> and then ExpandoMenuBar can also call this method
<waddlesplash> :)
<Skipp_OSX> Just to eliminate the duplicate code
<Skipp_OSX> and then the button margin should be eliminated but I think people would complain about it: https://64.media.tumblr.com/ae6711c88880d7cbe993b0f86e071288/tumblr_n3h72l1mwW1r0f0hfo1_400.pnj
<waddlesplash> yeah, they probably would...
<Skipp_OSX> no it still doesn't work because I have to call RemoveTeam in TExpandoMenuBar and RemoveItem in TTeamMenu ....
<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: ??
<waddlesplash> I'm confused
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<waddlesplash> eh, should we really remove it immediately?
<Skipp_OSX> how can I do that from the TeamMenuItem is the question ...
<Skipp_OSX> yeah that's what VDG does
<Skipp_OSX> I guess idk I didn't design Deskbar some guy in 1994 did
<waddlesplash> lol
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 2 commits to master [hrev56904] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=fcd82d3dc36a+%5E86ee86f5a922
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 0f67b2ac2e1e - uchar.h: Add missing include of stdint.h.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] fcd82d3dc36a - math.h: Change definition of FP_ILOGB0 to match the specification.
<Skipp_OSX> I'll just dynamic_cast again *sigh*
<waddlesplash> oh
<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: no
<waddlesplash> you don't need to RemoveItem anymore
<waddlesplash> BMenuItems remove themselves on destruction
<Skipp_OSX> uuhhhh ok
<waddlesplash> :)
<Skipp_OSX> yeah that might work in the menu case but no way it's going to work in expando case
<waddlesplash> why not?
<Skipp_OSX> because the Deskbar window needs to be resized
<waddlesplash> where does that happen?
<waddlesplash> I'm not seeing any overrides of RemoveItem
<Skipp_OSX> yeah RemoveItem you're right about that in the TeamMenu that's probably going to be fine
<waddlesplash> wait a minute
<Skipp_OSX> The TeamMenu is used in mini-mode, ExpandoMenuBar is used in expando mode
<waddlesplash> yeah ok I am seeing this now
<Skipp_OSX> that's the problem we have multiple menus and we move the menu items between them.
<waddlesplash> ugh
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<Skipp_OSX> Deskbar used to destroy everything and rebuild it all every time you switched modes at least now we reuse the same objects preserving their states
<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: try just not removing the team immediately
<waddlesplash> i.e. remove delete, RemoveTeam, etc.
<waddlesplash> we should see the team destruction notification and let that handle removal
<waddlesplash> that should make this work out
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56905] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=6d3d196648d0+%5Efcd82d3dc36a
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 6d3d196648d0 - getlogin_r: Make actually reentrant and fix error return value.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 3 commits to master [hrev56906] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=e69e1b2b3acc+%5E6d3d196648d0
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 05a0671dde0e - libroot: Synchronize random() implementation with upstream FreeBSD.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 87be02e12a6a - libroot: Replace rand() and rand_r() implementations with musl versions.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] e69e1b2b3acc - libroot: Remove glibc's random.c.
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<cocobean> Begasus: helloo..
<cocobean> No issues.... with paladin?
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 2 commits to master [hrev56907] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=c3c213810b27+%5Ee69e1b2b3acc
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 3e1163d6af87 - libroot: Disambiguate parameters of ICUCollateData::Strxfrm.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] c3c213810b27 - libroot: Do not include terminating NULL byte in result of [wc]strxfrm.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56908] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=adc3561bede0+%5Ec3c213810b27
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] adc3561bede0 - libroot: Suppress signed-unsigned comparison warning.
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<Begasus> heading down here, g'night peeps
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56909] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=23e3c5fa0cbf+%5Eadc3561bede0
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 23e3c5fa0cbf - libroot/icu: Add missing include of assert.h.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56910] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=33dd436f25ae+%5E23e3c5fa0cbf
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 33dd436f25ae - kernel/team: Fix race condition in team loading wait.
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<HaikuUser> Hello. this is my first time using haiku. is anyone around? I had a quick question. I dragged the volume slider out of the deskbar and I don't know how to get rid of it now
<augiedoggie> is there a little hand icon in the lower right?
* augiedoggie opens a VM
<HaikuUser> yes, but for one of them it's very hard to see because it's right at the edge
<augiedoggie> right click and choose "remove"
<HaikuUser> ah, thanks. That worked great.
<HaikuUser> I'm trying to get this working on an old macbook that my mother left behind. I still can't get the wifi or sound working though
<HaikuUser> I tried the wifi firmware installation script.
<augiedoggie> i don't have much experience with wifi on haiku, for certain audio chips you may need to install the opensound package
<HaikuUser> oh, I installed that too, no luck. It's a 2012 macbook, I think it just isn't supported yet
<waddlesplash> wifi on 2012 MacBook may never be supported
<waddlesplash> audio is another matter, that one we can and should fix
<waddlesplash> jessicah may know something about that
<HaikuUser> the only other spare hardware I have is an '06 era Mac Mini, and that's a lost cause
<HaikuUser> I somehow got Debian loaded onto it, but the mac boot loader can't even see a USB with the 32bit Haiku iso on it
<HaikuUser> ditto for the disk boot. just spits it back out
<jessicah> I can't remember which airbook I have, but did get audio partially working
<jessicah> I think it was speakers only, no headphone jack
<jessicah> think it's 6,2
<augiedoggie> i have a mini from ~07 that needs a custom boot cd in order to start haiku
<jessicah> as needs some quirk support in hda
<HaikuUser> well, all things considered, I'm amazed by how quickly Haiku installs and boots
<jessicah> for my airbook, I use an apple Thunderbolt to ethernet adaptor
<HaikuUser> I kinda wish I could get trackpad gestures, but I figure that's down the line. I'm not much of a developer, but I love tinkering with stuff like this. Amazing work.
<jessicah> as long as it's plugged in at system boot, it works fine
<jessicah> hotplug doesn't work
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<HaikuUser> if it helps, according to Devices the sound is NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio
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<AlienSoldier> was back on the computer being away for the afternoon and app server (or input server as mouse was not mouving anymore) was hang. I disabled the screensaver (was set to blackness) to see if this is the component that sometime freeze. Not the fisrt time this happened to me and not on just this computer.
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