robclark changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
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<altacus>
Has anyone else experienced non working trackpad buttons? I just updated the bios to version 1.58, so I'm not sure if it's that. In addition, I tested it with steev's 6.5.4 and 6.6.0-rc4 kernels and the buttons don't work. The trackpad works so I'm using tap to click for now.
<steev>
if you mean the buttons above the trackpad, those work here
<steev>
and i'm on 1.58 bios as well
<steev>
but i'm using 6.5.7 and 6.6.0-rc6
<altacus>
Ok, I'm recompiling as we speak.
<steev>
i haven't pushed 6.6.0-rc6 yet, waiting to see if there's any new goodies that i mighta missed (or maybe there has been work on the pm8008)
<altacus>
I'm compiling the 6.5.y branch right now, I
<altacus>
guess that'll give me the 6.5.7
<altacus>
just curious, what are some of the improvements in 6.5.7?
<altacus>
touchpad buttons still do not work on 6.5.7
<Allak>
To be a ghost with a pulse, get in a situation where the mind gives the perceived death signal, by watching a scary movie alone in the dark, and when it does just ignore it or pay no attention to it.- Daniel Alan Gabriel- ghostpeople@gmx.com
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<altacus>
So the buttons don't work at all, in the bios, and even in windows. Odd, I was just using it last night.
<altacus>
and the red button doesn't move the mouse either. Could it be a loose cable?
<altacus>
Oh well, I'm going to be. hopefully a reset will fix it in the morning, lol
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<jhovold>
Here's an updated wip branch for the X13s:
<cenunix[m]>
Am trying to boot mainline kernel on NixOS, not sure if I’m missing something
<cenunix[m]>
I see qcom_pmic_glink complaining
<jhovold>
cenunix[m]: well it needs to be enabled in the kernel config, but since it's built in you don't need to list it as a module to include in your initramfs
<cenunix[m]>
Ah, I see qcom_pcie: phy link never came up
<jhovold>
cenunix[m]: you would also see that if your machine does not have a modem
<jhovold>
which controller is the message for?
<cenunix[m]>
yeah I don't have a modem
<Jasper[m]>
jhovold: I think you're mixing @xnox with @cenunix
<jhovold>
Jasper[m]: heh, no, different issues, but cenunix[m] phy link message may be due to a missing modem
<cenunix[m]>
sorry but what do you mean by controller?
<jhovold>
what's the whole line for that phy log message, that is, including the device prefix?
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<jhovold>
cenunix[m]: you will see "qcom-pcie 1c10000.pcie: Phy link never came up" if there's no modem installed
<jhovold>
as the modem is connected to the pcie controller / RC at 1c10000
<cenunix[m]>
yeah thats the full message
<jhovold>
so nothing to worry about then
<cenunix[m]>
qcom_pmic_glink pmic glink: Failed to create device link (0x180) with usbO-sbu-mux
<jhovold>
also nothing to worry about
<cenunix[m]>
qcom_pmic glink pmic glink: Failed to create device link (0x180) with 88eb000.phy
<cenunix[m]>
Gotchya and this one as well I’m guessing?
<jhovold>
indeed
<ukleinek>
missing (or non-working) devicelinks can be an issue though.
<jhovold>
ukleinek: it's not related to cenunix[m] problem, so nothing for him to worry about
* ukleinek
nods
<jhovold>
cenunix[m]: looks like the nvme partition is detected, so i don't think your problem is kernel related (unless your missing ext4 or something)
<cenunix[m]>
yeah I added the qcom_q6v5_pas to blacklist, i added qrtr under initrd.availableKernelModules inside the .nix file. I think i removed the firmware qcadsp8280.mbn but will have to double check that one
<cenunix[m]>
i definitely did the first two though, im just not sure if the firmware is actually removed will have to double check
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<enyalios>
altacus: i have run into that same issue, with non-working trackpoint and mouse buttons
<enyalios>
it seems to be caused by statically shocking the trackpoint if you build up too much charge on yourself
<enyalios>
the only way i could get it to work again, was to go into the bios and disconnect the battery
<enyalios>
then you plug it back in to power it on and reconnect the battery, and the trackpoint and buttons started working again
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<xnox>
jhovold: thanks will try
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<xnox>
jhovold: hmmm i did symlink of the script, but not sure if it does anything
<xnox>
will debug with people who know more about it
<xnox>
jhovold: it works! symlinked an extra unlock script as my pci id is different and it now works
<xnox>
and i managed to get onto LTE network i think
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<craftyguy>
Hi folks! I'm looking for opinions about the thinkpad x13s. My primarily use would be for doing OS development (Linux), the distro supports aarch64 as a first class cpu arch (and I have some experience using linux on aarch64). I've seen that support for the x13s is very new in the kernel, so I'm mainly curious about how the laptop is holding up (any hw problems?) and general
<craftyguy>
performance (hopefully much better than say a Pinebook Pro, right?). Or if there are much better aarch64 laptops out there, though I have some requirements that mean e.g. "no Apple stuff" :P
<Jasper[m]>
@craftyguy some of those devices are also on the pmos wiki
<Jasper[m]>
Though the x13s isn't really
<Jasper[m]>
Any of the more modern qualcomm ones should work better than the Pinebook Pro
<craftyguy>
Jasper[m]: ya, I'm actually coming from pmOS, but the focus has mostly been on chromebooks (there is an initial x13s port though, but it's not merged yet)
<craftyguy>
(I don't like the chromebook keyboard layouts I've seen, so I hadn't really been looking at those. plus, trackpoint on the thinkpad! :P)
<Jasper[m]>
craftyguy: I know, I contribute (sometimes) ;)
<Jasper[m]>
I do understand the focus on the X13s of course
<push>
fwiw i think I own all of the WOA devices, and the x13 is the best supported of all of them
<Jasper[m]>
I'm guessing Apple is off the table for similar reasons as the Chromebooks? Or is it just because it's apple?
<Jasper[m]>
I still need to set up VoLTErra properly :(
<craftyguy>
Jasper[m]: IIUC, nothing can be easily repaired/replaced on the apple M1/M2 laptops, and that's important to me
<push>
the x13s is the only of these devices with removable storage
<craftyguy>
the x13s has soldered memory, but it seems like the ssd, battery can be easily replaced if needed
<Jasper[m]>
Apart from the SSD and modem it won't be any different on the X13s
<Jasper[m]>
Ah and battery yeah
<Jasper[m]>
But yeah, fair
<craftyguy>
the x13s gets like a "7" from me on my totally made up "how repairable is it, 1-to-10?" scale, so not perfect, but it's not *terrible* :P
<craftyguy>
about the same as the PBP, if I can trust the lenovo service manual for it, heh. anyways, thanks for the info :)
<enyalios>
i just switched to an x13s from an x220, the x220 was like an 11 on the repairable scale
<enyalios>
i used it for 12 years as my primary computer and there were very few original parts left
<DanaG>
I'd have more forgiveness for Apple's soldered storage if they didn't have the firmware on the same storage, so when the SSD reaches the end of its life, the whole machine is bricked...
* calebccff
sideyes every qualcomm phone
<calebccff>
side-eyes?
<DanaG>
I have a Surface Pro X, and it's nice and light, but the keyboard isn't great. Since it's a cover, it flexes and misses keystrokes.
<DanaG>
I'd consider using Chromebooks if they keyboards didn't lack the Super key and real home/end/pageup/pagedown keys.
<DanaG>
And speaking of home and end, it drives me absolutely batty every time I press "home" in a Slack message on my work Mac and it takes me to the beginning of the whole message instead of the beginning and end of the line.
<craftyguy>
enyalios: ohh, so, I really want to hear from you then. I have x230 and a x220, I've used both a *lot* (and agree with the 11 on repairability). how would you rate the perf difference between the x220 and the x13s?
<craftyguy>
DanaG: exactly my problem with the chromebook keyboards :D
<DanaG>
As an example, using Chrome Remote desktop, when I was still using Lastpass: their shortcut key was alt-pageup. If pageup is alt-up, how do you send alt-pageup? Alt-alt-up?
<enyalios>
well its def quite a bit faster than my x220 was
<enyalios>
but obviously its not hard to be faster than a 12 year old laptop
<enyalios>
im sure if i went to some x86 machine instead of an x13s it would have been a WAY larger jump in performance
<enyalios>
but that really didnt matter to me
<enyalios>
since i was already fine with the x220 performance
<enyalios>
and ill i do is use a web brower and ssh
<DanaG>
I wish the X13s had a 120hz display. Even just for web browsers and such, the higher refresh rate makes a huge difference in readability when scrolling.
<enyalios>
i did a little testing, and i think the x13s is about 50% - 100% faster at compiles and such
<craftyguy>
yeah, I'm not looking for the fastest laptop on earth. I'm mostly fine with the x220/x230 perf (ya I'm using both interchangeably :P), even for building kernels and whatnot. so if the x13s is a relatively big improvement over those then I think I know what my next laptop will be
<enyalios>
yeah im very happy so far
<enyalios>
WAY more battery life, totally silent, significantly smaller and lighter
<craftyguy>
based on the table above, it seems like DP alt mode might work (but not at 4 lanes) ?
<enyalios>
significantly worse kb than the x220, less repairable
<enyalios>
i was hoping for faster wifi
<enyalios>
but the wifi support on the x13s is still getting there
<enyalios>
it should get faster eventually
<craftyguy>
hah yeah, every laptop since the x220 has a worse keyboard. except maybe the MNT reform :P
<enyalios>
yeah it really is the best laptop kb in the last 12 years
<DanaG>
When Lenovo put the printscreen key where the context-menu key goes, that was really annoying.
<DanaG>
Speaking of the X13s, I'm curious how well it runs the Vulkan game, Veloren. Assuming there's even Vulkan support yet on Qualcomm.
<enyalios>
meh, i actually just mapped that to browser-back
<enyalios>
i miss the browser forward and back ones in the x220
<enyalios>
i havent tried any games on it at all
<DanaG>
I don't seriously play the game, but it's pretty, and makes a pretty good apples-to-apples comparison for GPUs on ARM and x86.
<enyalios>
i still havent gotten sound working on it in gentoo, but everything i care about works great in ubuntu
<enyalios>
so im dual booting both for now
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<HdkR>
craftyguy: Correct, no four lanes. So you get 4k60 but not 4k120/144
<HdkR>
Or is it 4k30? Been a while since I checked
<HdkR>
no 4k60 sounds right :)
<craftyguy>
ok that's fine, any video > no video :P
<HdkR>
Yea, I use DP on mine each day to push out a 1080p60 image, so video definitely works
<craftyguy>
nice
<DanaG>
As far as I know, the Qualcomm hardware can't do 4k120. Or at least, in Windows it can't.
<HdkR>
Oh that's interesting
<DanaG>
Let me double-check it now...
<craftyguy>
how's the display on the x13s? lenovo offers 300 nit and 400 nit options, they both seem kinda low, but maybe it's fine since the display is matte?
<HdkR>
I don't have Windows on mine to check there
<enyalios>
i have the low power 400
<HdkR>
The 300nits option pixel response time is a bit slow compared to my desktop monitors but that's not really a fair comparison
<DanaG>
I wish I could put the USB controller in peripheral mode in Windows, and use MTP to transfer stuff.
<enyalios>
and im pretty sure its brighter than the x220 display
<enyalios>
it looks amazing
<DanaG>
Looks like I get options for 60hz, 59.94hz, and 29.97hz.
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<cenunix[m]>
the low power display from lenovo is supposedly pretty good for battery life, something to consider
<HdkR>
DanaG: hmmm, sounds like something to think about if 4-lane DP ever gets hooked up in Linux
<craftyguy>
I see, thanks. next challenge will be finding that on ebay or something :P
<HdkR>
Also Vulkan exists on the device, but it sometimes crashes the GPU
<DanaG>
The Surface apparently is a special beast on top of being a special beast. All sorts of Surface-specific stuff instead of Qualcomm's usual stuff. For example, there's a "Surface UCM UCSI HID Client" device.
<HdkR>
Hard to diagnose problem
<DanaG>
Veloren in DX12 mode (via x86 emulation) on Windows tends to crash periodically, though it doesn't take the whole GPU with it. Linux builds of Veloren have native aarch64 support, on the other hand.
<Jasper[m]>
DanaG: Oh yeah then that will probably work fine
<enyalios>
i couldnt find any data on how much more battery the low power display gives you over the regular, does anyone have solid info on that?
<enyalios>
i just went with it because i wanted maximum uptime
<cenunix[m]>
enyalios: not really, although i know there are some reddit threads where x86 thinkpad users claim a couple hours difference I believe
<craftyguy>
interesting, that's not bad, if true
<DanaG>
I'm thinking my best route is to just keep my Surface Pro X, and then just look around periodically to see what pops up in terms of progress on this project and on Asahi.
<DanaG>
And who knows, maybe non-Qualcomm WOA laptops will come out too. The guy behind the site Semiaccurate sure seems to think so.
<cenunix[m]>
DanaG: do you mean that you'll be waiting to transition to apple macbook or x13s?
<cenunix[m]>
from what i've heard apple battery life is pretty meh on asahi for now unfortunately
<cenunix[m]>
im assuming that will improve of course, as its one of the best battery life machines when running MacOS
<DanaG>
I have a beefy x86 desktop for my primary use, and the Surface Pro X is decent for random browsing, so I don't even really have a *need* for anything new. Mostly just "I'm bored, I want a new toy to play with."
<cenunix[m]>
ah gotchya
<DanaG>
Apple stuff is expensive that I shouldn't just go, "eh, why not?" -- especially when I don't like their corporate practices.
<craftyguy>
ya the situation is less being bored for me, than I'm about to lose access to a 14nm+++++ x86_64 laptop, and will have to fall back to an x230 or finally get an aarch64 laptop that's more useful than PBP
<craftyguy>
enyalios: what kind of battery life do you see on your x13s?
<enyalios>
so far about 10-12 hours
<craftyguy>
(running linux, of course :P)
<enyalios>
but i havent even gotten it fully optimized yet
<DanaG>
In terms of arm64 desktop Linux, I already have an NXP LX2160A, but apparently a lot of quirks like graphics glitches (due to bad ordering in memcpy operations) have apparently had patches keep getting roadblocked or outright denied by maintainers.
<enyalios>
this is still running ubuntu with their patched 6.2.0 kernel
<enyalios>
i think its better on more recent ones
<cenunix[m]>
enyalios are you running
<cenunix[m]>
pcie_aspm.policy=powersupersave
<enyalios>
the ubuntu install is just using whatever options it sets in the x13s concept image
<enyalios>
it shows nothing other than `BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.2.0-1005-laptop root=UUID=927cb083-e19d-43f5-aad4-0db3dd63b5c4 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7` in /proc/cmdline
<enyalios>
but im not sure how it would even boot without the clock and power ignore stuff
<cenunix[m]>
I think pcie_aspm.policy is just for better battery life
<cenunix[m]>
i can't find it rn but i thought jhovold said it gives significant improvements
<DanaG>
Oh yeah, something to note about my 4k120 test: the Surface Pro X is SQ2 (Snapdragon 8 Gen2), but I think the Lenovo is Snapdragon 8 Gen3. So it's possible the Gen3 *can* do 4k12, and it's just Gen2 that can't.
<craftyguy>
everything I've seen suggests it is gen3
<Jasper[m]>
It is yeah
<DanaG>
If the rumors of next-gen Snapdragon WOA supporting USB4 and eGPU are correct, that could be a huge boon for performance. Might even outdo Apple at that point, especially if Apple's PCIe controller can't do something-or-other that's essential to GPUs.
<DanaG>
Or rather, next-gen Qualcomm, whatever the product's marketing name might end up being. Can't seem to find the article that stated those rumors.
<DanaG>
Does the X13S have a USB-C port that might be able to be placed into a peripheral role instead of a host role? That could be fun to play with.
<craftyguy>
oh yeah that would be fun
<craftyguy>
for those with an x13s: how well does the modem work with modemmanager?
<bamse>
DanaG: yes, that should work...the limitation is in the current linux implementation, we need to get ucsi working in order to perform the role switch...
<bamse>
craftyguy: it occasionally bugs out on me, but it's what i use when i travel
<craftyguy>
nice
<bamse>
for a while people reported issues because their modemmanager installation wasn't new enough, i suspect this issue has resolved itself by now