<nicolas17>
jannau: that echo command does turn it off, so yeah I blame plasma
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<NotDisliked>
hello I've come to ask the questions that 50 people have probably already asked
<NotDisliked>
I saw that keyboard backlight support got added in linux-asahi-edge (which I'm now on), but I can't find a place in kde to control the keyboard brightness. am I blind or do I need to grab some extra module
<jannau>
the keyboard backlight is also in the linux-asahi kernel. the "Battery and Brightness" tray item has controls for it. it might be hidden if charger is connected and the battery is full
<NotDisliked>
knew I was blind
<NotDisliked>
thanks
<jannau>
no problem
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<NotDisliked>
my other question is more niche, I was trying to modify the existing discord_arch_electron package in the AUR to compile for arm, I think I've got everything working fine but when I launch the app I get an error about "dri3 extension not supported". I just wanted to validate my suspicion that this is due to the lack of a GPU driver on asahi at present, or maybe someone happens to know that I've just messed something up in my
<NotDisliked>
fiddling with the package.
<NotDisliked>
the full error is "[3498:1122/163056.590907:ERROR:gpu_memory_buffer_support_x11.cc(44)] dri3 extension not supported.", thus my suspicion about the GPU driver being the culprit
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<axboe>
jannau: I used to run with the out-of-tree patches for the kbd backlight and they worked fine, doesn't work for me in asahi-wip
<axboe>
caveat that this may be me missing something, but it seems to get killed at load time:
<axboe>
[ 0.188224] leds_pwm led-controller: failed to read period for kbd_backlight, default to off
<nicolas17>
hm that name sounds familiar :)
<nicolas17>
axboe: you work on block device stuff right?
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<axboe>
nicolas17: yep, block stack, io_uring, bunch of different things
<axboe>
but I'm also an avid m1 linux user, and get to be the newbie here :)
<nicolas17>
yesterday I was looking for a way to write to a file and say "delay flushing this to disk (unless you're low on memory or something) because I'll delete this file soon anyway"
<nicolas17>
Windows has this flag on the CreateFile API: "Specifying the FILE_ATTRIBUTE_TEMPORARY attribute causes file systems to avoid writing data back to mass storage if sufficient cache memory is available, because an application deletes a temporary file after a handle is closed. In that case, the system can entirely avoid writing the data."
<nicolas17>
FreeBSD has this in mmap: "MAP_NOSYNC: Causes data dirtied via this VM map to be flushed to physical media only when necessary (usually by the pager) rather than gratuitously. Without this option any VM pages you dirty may be flushed to disk every so often (every 30-60 seconds usually)"
<nicolas17>
there doesn't seem to be anything like it on Linux, is there?
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<tpw_rules>
jannau: ah, thanks for the info
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<axboe>
nicolas17: don't think so, nope
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<chadmed>
axboe: sorry to be a bother but if youre still interested in speakers on your j316, do you mind giving the latest asahi-audio a try with the latest kernel? we've fixed the problem with weird channel allocations ruining pipewire's routing so im curious as to what the sound quality is like on the 16"
<chadmed>
i havent had any feedback from 16" owners yet so idk if i need to acquire one to do new IRs for it or if we actually can get away with the 14" ones with reasonable results
<chadmed>
i feel like its going to be the former
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<nicolas17>
chadmed: is there M2 speaker support yet?
<chadmed>
no, the 13" machines use a totally different setup
<chadmed>
i have an A1708 that i could use to get a rough idea of what I need to do for them but the kernel driver for the later intel macbooks is dodgy and unmaintained
<nicolas17>
so you've been working only on 14" so far?
<chadmed>
yeah, its the only machine i have and i dont really have the means to just accumulate macs
<nicolas17>
oh for sure
<chadmed>
luckily the desktops dont really _need_ anything just for basic functionality so i can ignore those for now, and if the same set of IRs works fine on the 16" then thats the main devices sorted (hopefully) until the next redesign
<nicolas17>
all desktops have speakers, right?
<chadmed>
im banking on them finally retiring the 13" chassis after this generation. my hunch is that they just had a shitload of inventory or something or havent finished amortising the tooling for making them. but given the macbook air redesign and how fish-out-of-water the thing looks now i cant see them continuing the line
<chadmed>
yeah all the desktops have speakers
<chadmed>
the only one im really interested in tuning is the imac because i think that has some crazy setup similar to the laptops, but the studio and mini are just a mono woofer cone. the most id need to do there is wrench down the mids to stop it from honking
<chadmed>
and ofc safety stuff
<nicolas17>
"pandemic-affected work products finally getting to the end of the pipeline" is another theory I have seen mentioned for weird product decisions, especially with respect to the latest iPads
<chadmed>
certainly a possibility
<chadmed>
my thinking is that the last line of intel 13" machines sold poorly because of their awful reputation so they are/were overstocked on chassis and tooling
<chadmed>
so why not chuck decent hardware in them and ship them out the door rather than go to the expense of melting them down/otherwise disposing of them
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<nicolas17>
oh did M1 MBP use the same chassis as Intel? I knew M1 and M2 were almost identical but didn't know last Intel too
<chadmed>
yeah the 13" chassis hasnt changed since like 2016 afaik
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<axboe>
chadmed: not a bother at all! I can give it a whirl
<chadmed>
thanks!
<chadmed>
ah you will need lsp-plugins installed too
<axboe>
installed
<axboe>
I ran mac-audio.sh
<chadmed>
youll need to log out and log back in to restart pipewire
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<axboe>
I just rebooted to be sure
<axboe>
not sure if I can tell a difference, but it worked pretty well before
<axboe>
but I also have no idea what osx sounds like...
<chadmed>
oh so the issues you had initially were already gone?
<axboe>
maybe lacking some woofer, not sure
<axboe>
the half-speed stuff? yes that got magically fixed
<axboe>
and for some reason I ended up with "Pro Audio" and "Pro Audio 1"
<chadmed>
pro audio is the headphone jack, pro audio 1 is the raw speaker device
<chadmed>
so you can swap between pro audio 1 and macbook pro j31x to a/b test the difference
<axboe>
ah
<axboe>
makes sense
<chadmed>
youll want to keep pro audio 1 at 100% volume for normal use too and just use the filter chain to set the volume
<chadmed>
and also max out all the speaker sliders in alsamixer now, you dont need to keep them at 80 or whatever
<axboe>
it sounds like pro audio 1 is missing tweeters
<axboe>
and internal is just tweeters?
<axboe>
ah perfect, I'll max them out - had them at 78 or something
<axboe>
this is way better than previously
<axboe>
was already pretty happy with it :)
<chadmed>
thats what i like to hear!
<chadmed>
are the mids still honky or has that been fixed?
<axboe>
thanks so much for all your (and povik, et al) work on this
<axboe>
I'd need to try a bit of booting between osx and linux to check
<axboe>
I've never run osx on it
<axboe>
but definite difference between pro audio 1 and internal
<chadmed>
thats impressive
<axboe>
latter more legible imho
<axboe>
pro audio 1 sounds somewhat muffle
<axboe>
d
<chadmed>
macos still has better bass management but thats because they do a bunch of freaky stuff in coreaudio we cant really emulate (not that id want to, i think the bass in macos is a bit overbearing)
<chadmed>
yeah the raw speakers actually kinda suck, theres a boatload of EQ happening in the IRs
<axboe>
for me it's just a laptop and the audio will be so-so at best anyway
<chadmed>
the woofers sound like an AM radio station
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<jannau>
axboe: "leds_pwm led-controller: failed to read period for kbd_backlight, default to off" seems to be not a problem. I get that as well but the kbd backlight works as expected
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<axboe>
jannau: ah ok, well then it's something else causing it to not work, because it doesn't :)
<axboe>
whereas the old patch worked fine
<j`ey>
can you check the DT, make sure there wasnt a mistake made there?
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<axboe>
sure will do
<axboe>
I did look when I switched to the in-tree one and didn't spot anything, but it's easy to miss so I'll do another check
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<jannau>
axboe: does /sys/class/leds/kbd_backlight/brightness exists? does anything happens when writing 255 into it?
<ayke>
Is it possible to have display brightness control while using the old framebuffer instead of the new DCP display support? (I'm guessing "no" but asking to be sure)
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<ayke>
DCP is unfortunately too slow for my workflow
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<jannau>
it's not possible without larger hacks. the brightnes control is integrated in the dcp protocol. you have to wait for the gpu driver
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<as400>
dcp is fair bit faster with x11
<mps>
as400: which DE you use
<as400>
mps: plasma
<mps>
for me it is fast enough, except when switching virtual screens in awesome wm
<j`ey>
as400: yeah, you could try sway for a tiling wayland wm
<as400>
j`ey: I tried sway some time before. I really liked it but with the time I started missing some stupid things that are quite easy to do in plasma. Like screenshots, keyboard backlight controls oob.
<as400>
You know - I'm lazy I guess
<j`ey>
Im sure you can do those things with sway
<ayke>
jannau: ok, thnx
<as400>
j`ey: most certainly you're right.
<mps>
axboe: right
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<ayke>
as400: I'm using KDE on X11, my problem is yakuake takes about a second to appear. And I'm too lazy to try and fix that when this will likely be fixed anyway in the not too distant future (I hope!)
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<mps>
I use awesome wm for more than a decade and like it because I can config it to behave as I want, and it is easy to add applets with few lines of lua code, plus keybaord shortcuts
<as400>
mps: I used sway for a short time (like a month). But I must admit it was hard to go back to plasma.
<as400>
I got used to sway very quickly
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<kujeger>
sway and DCP works fine for me, just had to disable all transluceny effects in e.g. alacritty, or it would render at less than 1fps
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<bluetail>
kujeger thats weird that you say that since translucency seemed to not affect my m1 mac mini at all with the default kde plasma installment
<bluetail>
but I forgot I dont know about what the DCP support changes
<j`ey>
bluetail: changes to use the hardware display processor, rather than a 'dumb' framebuffer
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<kujeger>
yeah, the translucency works fine without the DCP changes. I'm guessing that once the gpu driver appears, it'll work fine with dcp as well.
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<ayke>
Hmm, interesting. I disabled translucency in yakuake but I guess some part of it still does the transparency operation (but now with opacity=100%)
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<mac456>
What are all the /dev/nvme0n* devices on j413 (M2 Air)? I have nvme0n1, nvme0n2, and nvme0n3.
<mac456>
What are 2 and 3? I thought there was only one hard drive.
<tpw_rules>
nvme namespaces. i believe they are used by the core boot and firmware stuff
<mac456>
What are nvme namespaces? It's a single nvme chipset, right? But the kernel module exposes it to Linux kernel as 3 separate devices?
<tpw_rules>
yes, the nvme spec lets you divide the physical drive at some level lower than partitions
<mac456>
And the mac itself also has some "hidden" area of the SSD, right? Or is that just one of these alternate namespaces?
<tpw_rules>
what do you mean? the nvme0n2 and nvme0n3 namespaces are small and used by very core apple boot software. i don't recall which off the top of my head. the higher level boot stuff including your macos install and the mandatory boot and recovery partitions are just gpt partitions on nvme0n1
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<tpw_rules>
none of the ssd is hidden to linux. and you can indeed stop the machine from booting by disturbing the stuff needed for boot.
<delsol>
^^^ THIS. The extra namespace stuff provided by NVME just lets apple/everyone put the other (boot/recovery/firmware/driver/tool options) in extra space.
<mac456>
Ok, I get it. I had just heard there was a hidden partition (hidden from macos), but I think that is referring to nvme0n2/3.
<tpw_rules>
macos is pretty cagey about letting you access arbitrary partitions
<mac456>
One thing that confuses me. The SSD on j413 is supposed to be 256 GB. But I only see 251 GB (nvme0n1) + 1 MB (nvme0n2) + 128 MB (nvme0n3). Where is the other 5 GB?
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<mac456>
(I mean GB as in base-10, not GiB as in base 2)
<tpw_rules>
i don't know how the alternate namespaces show up in macos
<delsol>
Just like the the old "internet recovery" mode on other machines, where you could remove the hard drive/ssd.... and still boot the machine with a basic kernel, connect to ethernet or wifi, download and install over the internet onto your replacement drive... even if it took allllll daaaaammmmmnnnnnnn daaaaaaaaaaaayyy.
<mac456>
I don't think it's marketing. The drive is called AP0256Z, that's not a marketing term.
<delsol>
mac456: perhaps its 256GB of NAND, but some of it is treated as SLC instead of MLC/TLC/QLC for write performance.
<delsol>
reducing capacity a bit
<mac456>
delsol: You're saying there's an additional 5 GB on the SSD devoted to Internet Recovery and Linux can't see it?
<delsol>
mac456: No.. I'm saying that the older machines had extra storage where that shit was, and that rather than having to build in a "fake bootable USB stick" or other workarounds for that kind of shit, now they can just use extra bits of the NVME namespace to do similar.
<delsol>
dells with their hardware function test stuff that was built into EFI/BIOS/etc
<tpw_rules>
i think that's not a good usecase imo
<tpw_rules>
on the old machines it was a physically separate chip so you could indeed remove the drive
<mac456>
delsol: And you can't see SLC in linux?
<tpw_rules>
now if the drive dies or you take it out the namespaces go too and your machine is hosed
<mac456>
What I don't get is why you can't see the full 256 GB in Linux? There seems to be 5 GB missing. Seems like a problem with the driver.
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<tpw_rules>
delsol is saying there may be 256GB of physical chips, but it's not all given to the processor by the nvme controller
<delsol>
mac456: OK... so do you know how SLC/MLC/TLC/QLC works?
<mac456>
Oh, ok, I see what you mean
<delsol>
SLC stores 1 bit per cell.
<tpw_rules>
and one way is that the controller can trade off performance vs capacity by in some sense double-storing data
<mac456>
delsol: no
<delsol>
0, 1.
<delsol>
full empty.
<mac456>
Yes, I know that
<mac456>
Yes, I know that
<mac456>
SLC is faster
<mac456>
I don't know MLC, TLC, QLC
<delsol>
MLC stores TWO bits per cell... glass is empty, full, 1/3 or 2/3rds full.... 00, 01, 10, 11
<delsol>
etc
<mac456>
Ok
<delsol>
TLC stores 3 bits per cell.... QLC 4 bits per cell.
<tpw_rules>
but there is only a fixed number of cells which apple might quote as 256GB if used in QLC mode. the controller can write faster by trying to cram less bits into each cell
<delsol>
if you have 8GB of QLC.... and you use it as SLC... thats only 1 GB of space... in that 8GB chunk...
<delsol>
so you just "lost" 7GB.
<delsol>
but you get to read/write/erase it 100000 cycles instead of 500.
<mac456>
Yeah, I see your point. So, the 5 GB could be more redundant for better longevity and store firmware needed to boot the machine even when the rest of the SSD has failed?
<delsol>
no. You use it as a write cache
<tpw_rules>
no, that stuff is stored on a separate chip
<delsol>
scratch space to combine writes, shit to disk quick, and then re-shuffle in place elsewhere later.
<delsol>
since you can't full speed "edit" whats stored on NAND.
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<delsol>
you read it, copy it elsewhere, erase it in larger chunks, then write the new contents back.
<delsol>
very slow.
<delsol>
having small space to shit-writes down to very fast makes a world of difference.
<mac456>
Ok, so now I think you are saying the extra 5 GB not exposed to the AP could be a write cache for writes to the rest of the SSD?
<delsol>
yes.
<mac456>
Ok, I see what you mean. That makes sense.
<delsol>
Also, usable space vs raw space
<delsol>
it may be keeping a small reserve for reallocations and cell failures and wear leveling
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<mac456>
Well, there are spares no matter what, independent of what the stated chip capacity is.
<delsol>
... not always
<mac456>
Ok, yeah, could be.
<delsol>
See all the 256GB SSD's that show up as 228/229/230gb
<delsol>
when it should be "238" GB
<mac456>
Mmm, see what you mean, yeah.
<delsol>
because of the spare 8-10GB being held back for reserve capacity.... (and that was even back in the MLC days before using SLC caches)
<delsol>
I did the same back then too. Had plenty of drives that didn't have shit for spare capacity... just always left an extra 4-8-10GB unpartitioned at the end for the drive to wear level with as it pleased.
<delsol>
Seemed to make a difference in lifespan
<mac456>
Interesting. Thanks - this illuminated a lot. Gotta run but thanks for the replies. Talk to you later.
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<Cyrinux>
Hi everyone, do you know if someone is working on webcam support? Or is it planned, complicated work?
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