hertz has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
seeeath has joined #asahi
Brainium has joined #asahi
SushiInYourFace has joined #asahi
<SushiInYourFace>
Hello! I was wondering how solid the GPU drivers were on M2. I looked through the blog and wiki, and wanted to make sure that the drivers weren't only more geared towards M1 devices only
hightower4 has joined #asahi
<tpw_rules>
i mean they show pretty pictures but they cannot really be described as "solid" for any system imo
<tpw_rules>
mostly because they only support the older standards at this time
ec0_ has joined #asahi
<SushiInYourFace>
fair enough, thank you!
ec0 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<SushiInYourFace>
I guess that, at this time, use case is either a specific brand of software development or simple novelty (and that it will see more usefullness as it matures?) Please correct me if I'm wrong though, I'd love to see other ways it might be helpful for people!
ec0_ is now known as ec0
<tpw_rules>
yes, it's a lot of work to write a GPU driver from scratch
hightower3 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<tpw_rules>
it works fine now for desktop environments and simple/older games. but "solid" just sounds like you are expecting too much i think
<SushiInYourFace>
I can certainly imagine, and much respect to everyone working on it!
<SushiInYourFace>
My second question there could also somewhat apply to the OS as a whole though, I'm curious to see what it's used for right now
ec0 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
noelle has joined #asahi
hightower3 has joined #asahi
seeeath has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
seeeath has joined #asahi
ec0 has joined #asahi
hightower4 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
seeeath has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
amarioguy has joined #asahi
hightower4 has joined #asahi
hightower3 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
possiblemeatball has joined #asahi
seeeath has joined #asahi
seeeath has quit []
seeeath has joined #asahi
seeeath has quit []
Brainium has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
noelle has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
hertz has joined #asahi
nyx_o has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.5]
possiblemeatball has quit [Quit: Leaving]
SushiInYourFace has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
c10l has quit [Quit: Bye o/]
c10l has joined #asahi
SushiInYourFace has joined #asahi
Guest1528 has quit [Quit: G-line: User has been permanently banned from this network.]
vx has joined #asahi
vx is now known as Guest1554
ten157237 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
faruk has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
nyx_o has joined #asahi
<marcan>
tpw_rules: the drivers are solid; that doesn't mean they support the latest AAA games.
<marcan>
SushiInYourFace: they work exactly the same on M1 and M2
<marcan>
if you say they aren't "solid" people are going to think they're buggy or something, while they work perfectly well for daily use
<marcan>
it's annoying enough that Phoronix keeps throwing some kind of diss at the drivers at the end of every single Asahi article, as if they need to justify their earlier skepticism that we'd ever get anywhere near this far
<marcan>
we don't need to further discourage people
<marcan>
the drivers are already more GL compliant than Apple's drivers
<marcan>
(as in they actually pass tests for some versions and could be certified; Apple's drivers aren't and do not)
<marcan>
point is they work, they're conformant for the GL versions they advertise, they can handle a *large* fraction of what newer GL versions need if you force it via environment variables (especially the parts actually used by many smaller games/apps, though it's not guaranteed since not everything is implemented yet), and for everything else you can still fall back to software rendering
jeffmr has joined #asahi
<jeffmr>
marcan, do you know if any work has been done to make these work on openbsd?
<marcan>
I believe that is blocked on OpenBSD deciding to support Rust in their kernel
<marcan>
the drivers themselves are permissively licensed
<jeffmr>
ok and thanks for all the work btw. Really loving being able to run this on my mac
<marcan>
:)
<jeffmr>
: )
giskard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
giskard has joined #asahi
<SushiInYourFace>
marcan, Thanks for the info on the drivers! I'm hoping I may be able to play some older games using asahi, considering Apple's bs on 32-bit apps
<marcan>
ShadowJonathan: eventually yes (right now there's no sensible way to play 32-bit x86 games, because box86 can't work and FEX does not have 4K page emulation)
<marcan>
64-bit amd64 Linux games should mostly work with box64
<marcan>
Windows stuff will be a world of pain until FEX works, since it's pretty hard to avoid 32-bit code
zzywysm has joined #asahi
<marcan>
but it will eventually
<SushiInYourFace>
Thanks again for all the information! Looking forward to everything that's coming, and I'm really grateful for everything you're doing.
SushiInYourFace has quit [Quit: Sweet dreams, goodnight.]
<ShadowJonathan>
marcan: did you ping me accidentally?
<dsharshakov>
less firmware, less firmware crashes :)
<dsharshakov>
However idk why didn't Apple add a LEAP on audio codec bus, that could be nice
LinuxM1 has joined #asahi
<chadmed>
if you can get wines WOW64 implementation to somehow work (massive pita afaik) with box64 then some stuff sorta-kinda-almost works
<chadmed>
wines WOW64 is sufficient for at least star wars battlefront (2005), lego star wars (2005), starting steam and deus ex human revolution
<chadmed>
the first two work flawlessly, steam randomly explodes because CEF and valve release engineering, and dxhr is extremely slow because of moltenvk/wined3d nonsense
<dsharshakov>
being a person related to container world I might suggest application kernel approach to page size mismatch issue
<dsharshakov>
UML, gvisor or something like that
amw has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
dsharshakov has quit [Quit: Page closed]
jeffmr has joined #asahi
<marcan>
chadmed: how does that work? can box64 actually run 32-bit code segments?
<marcan>
AIUI WoW64 is just about the host interface being 64-bit, you still need 32-bit code execution
LinuxM1 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<chadmed>
it Just Works(tm) on macos with gcenx's brew formulae, the wine docs say something about building both 32 and 64 bit versions then building the 32 bit version again, pointing it to the 64 bit build artefacts and _then_ installing it
<chadmed>
oh its actually a bunch of crossover patches...
<marcan>
chadmed: that's because Rosetta can run 32-bit code
<marcan>
unless box64 can do the same, it's not going to work
<chadmed>
oh right, didnt realise that it could actually run 32 bit code
<marcan>
it can (it just doesn't have any infrastructure to run 32-bit *macOS apps*)
<marcan>
it also has, apparently, a hilariously slow software x87 fpu emulation (because 80bit floats)
<marcan>
but it's all there
<marcan>
I think they probably added that for wine, it's not like anything else will ever use it
<chadmed>
it being able to run through hypervisor.framework in a linux vm also lends credence to a fun theory of mine
<chadmed>
that they will eventually try to hit the server market once again
<marcan>
yeah that one's interesting
<marcan>
I'd actually heard that Rosetta worked on Linux through the rumor mill a while back, but I had no idea they actually planned to *release* that
<marcan>
always assumed it was just some internal test thing
<chadmed>
when aic2 happened and then the mac studio i got pretty confident in thinking that theyll just drop the desktop pro and rejig the rack mount one for the server market
<marcan>
yeah, the desktop pro is looking less and less likely
<marcan>
I think they've had plans for it for a while but it feels like it's never goign to actually ship
<marcan>
something something 4x M2 Max
<chadmed>
they actually promised it in a press video lmao
<marcan>
(watch the DTs for the iack-offset once M2 Pro/Max drop, that will tell us the max die count supported :p)
leitao has joined #asahi
tim has joined #asahi
tim is now known as Guest1569
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Zopolis4 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
faruk has joined #asahi
faruk has quit []
leitao has joined #asahi
<ChaosPrincess>
is a desktop pro worth it w/o upgradeable ram
jluthra has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jluthra has joined #asahi
<chadmed>
not at all, plus the studio has basically eaten the entire market the pro existed to serve
<chadmed>
which is why i am like 98% sure theyre just gonna axe it from their lineup and re-market the rack mounted pro as a server
<ChaosPrincess>
i guess you can do upgradeable ram by socketing the whole m# module
<ChaosPrincess>
or doing something similar to what dell is doing for laptop ram
<chadmed>
whats dell doing? being dell i can only assume its nightmarish
<jannau>
LGA for DDR, will be standardized by jedec
<jannau>
search for CAMM
<chadmed>
oh thats actually kinda cool
<ChaosPrincess>
should have happened forever ago, and not just for laptops, but eh
<chadmed>
i mean its extremely impressive that engineers have managed to make dimms scale as high as they have
<chadmed>
but now yeah, at the point where a speck of dust within 30km of a trace changes the capacitance enough to make training fail... maybe time to move on
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
leitao has joined #asahi
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
hightower3 has joined #asahi
jeffmr has quit [Quit: leaving]
kjoonlee has joined #asahi
hightower4 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
hightower3 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<kjoonlee>
ls
<kjoonlee>
oops
Sellerie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zalyx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
zalyx has joined #asahi
leitao has joined #asahi
chadmed_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<kjoonlee>
hi, is it a known issue that keys do not repeat if you drop to a virtual console and hold down a key, please? M2 MBA - and kbdrate -r 15 -d 500 as root just always prints the same thing (rate 33, delay 250) and doesn't change anything
possiblemeatball has joined #asahi
faruk has joined #asahi
bisko has joined #asahi
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
leitao has joined #asahi
Zopolis4 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
jamespmorgan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chadmed_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nicolas17 has joined #asahi
<opticron>
huh, no update to the 13" MBP for the M2 wider release
<nicolas17>
13" MBP already has M2
<nicolas17>
were you expecting redesign or?
<opticron>
oh...maybe I missed that
<opticron>
for some reason I didn't think the 13" MBP had M2
<nicolas17>
"M2 delivers new levels of power-efficient performance and capabilities to the completely redesigned MacBook Air and updated 13-inch MacBook Pro" June 2022 :)
<opticron>
ok, well I just missed that happening, apparently :D
<nicolas17>
a redesign *is* due
<nicolas17>
M1 and M2 MBP 13" are exactly the same on the outside, they even have the same A- model number (regulatory ID)
<opticron>
aren't they also externally the same as the intel touchbar MBP?
<nicolas17>
not sure if there's any chassis difference
nate8 has joined #asahi
<tpw_rules>
which intel touchbar MBP?
<tpw_rules>
afaik they are significantly different
jamespmorgan has joined #asahi
<opticron>
the last one, 2016-2020
<tpw_rules>
yeah, the apple silicon MBPs look significantly different by the standards of a slab of metal at least
<tpw_rules>
oh wait, i think the touchbar ones do look the same as the intels, yes
seeeath has joined #asahi
<axboe>
damnit apple, now I had to order another laptop
<j`ey>
axboe: and mac mini
nicolas17 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<axboe>
j`ey: I'm a laptop guy :)
seeeath has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<axboe>
and ordered...
seeeath has joined #asahi
<j`ey>
axboe: what details?
<j`ey>
*specification
<axboe>
went 16" again, really like that size over the 13". m2 max, 32gb, defaults
<j`ey>
nice nice
nate8 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
nate8 has joined #asahi
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
leitao has joined #asahi
nicolas17 has joined #asahi
<nicolas17>
we haven't found the MacN,M model number yet (ProductType), probably won't until the ipsws are out
unicordion has joined #asahi
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
leitao has joined #asahi
artemist has joined #asahi
yamii has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
yamii has joined #asahi
Guest1569 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ligma_toad has joined #asahi
seeeath has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<marcan>
kjoonlee: key repeat works fine here on a TTY on an M2 MBP (not sure if you can adjust it, haven't tried).
seeeath has joined #asahi
unicordion1 has joined #asahi
unicordion has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
guillaume_g has quit []
unicordion1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Glanzmann has joined #asahi
kettenis_ has joined #asahi
ten1572377 has joined #asahi
cylm has joined #asahi
kettenis has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: Are you going for the mini? I'm thinking about m2 pro 12c / 32 GB / 10 Gbit Ethernet
<Glanzmann>
But I also noticed that the system is 500 EURs more expensive than in the USA.
knedlik has joined #asahi
knedlik has left #asahi [#asahi]
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<jannau>
that tracks roughly with 19% VAT in Germany + exchange rate in apple's favour
leitao has joined #asahi
<Glanzmann>
jannau: Yep, I did that calculation, too. 100 EURs extra. :-)
<ligma_toad>
19% tax? yikes
<ligma_toad>
where I live it's 5%
<Glanzmann>
jannau: Anyway because I'm self employed I can pull 50% tax anyway (31% income and 19% sales tax).
<axboe>
in dk it's 25%, so...
<Glanzmann>
ligma_toad: Where do you live in Dubai?
<ligma_toad>
Glanzmann: lol. no, but we do have a decent amount of oil here
<ligma_toad>
western Canada
<ligma_toad>
50% tax...
<ligma_toad>
I think there would be a revolt the next morning if someone tried that here
<Glanzmann>
I see. Btw. Dubai does not have any oil left. Only Abu Dhabi. That is why Burj Dubai is now called Burj Khalifa (ruler of Abu Dhabi).
<Glanzmann>
Anyway checked Dubai prices. 2234.61 EUR But AED-EUR is weak at the moment.
faruk has joined #asahi
<Glanzmann>
chadmed: 10:46 <chadmed> which is why i am like 98% sure theyre just gonna axe it from their lineup and re-market the rack mounted pro as a server < On Hacker news was an comment on some qualcom arm aquicistion. Bottom line was the team that designed the m1 and did the roadmap for the next two generations left and founded a startup (forgot the name) in order to focus on arm server cpus because apple had
<Glanzmann>
no interest in the arm server cpu market. Now they got aquired by qualcom. And qualcom and arm fights if they can use existing license agreement of the startup with arm to use the IP from the startup in qualcom products. If someone finds the link or the name of the company please paste it so I can write it down. I thought I had, but haven't or put the wrong keywords.
<jannau>
the startup is/was nuvia
<Glanzmann>
Thanks.
bcrumb has joined #asahi
<bcrumb>
is KDE loading on boot slowly for any of you lately, since an update?
<Glanzmann>
jannau: Which systems did you order?
bcrumb_ has joined #asahi
bcrumb_ has quit []
<Glanzmann>
chadmed: Also interesting from the hn thread was that when you license arm you need to specify for which market segment you design products and if you want to change that you need to relicense.
bcrumb_ has joined #asahi
bcrumb has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
delsol has joined #asahi
<ChaosPrincess>
Im 99% sure apple's license terms is "fuck you, we are apple"
<TheLink>
apple's license and terms of use should predate all the other's
<nicolas17>
Glanzmann: yeah keep in mind european prices include tax and US prices don't
<Glanzmann>
nicolas17: Still 100 EUR suprplus.
<nicolas17>
oh they're definitely not priced the same, it's just not *that* much of a gap
<Glanzmann>
Anyway. I'm trying to sit a little bit more on my ass and wait till xfreerdp works under xorg.
<Glanzmann>
jannau: Btw. Do you know if the new m2 pro has a die shrink. Not that I care for a desktop, but wonder if it is done. I read somewhere that while m2 air has 20% more cpu performance, it consumes more power and runs short than m1 air.
<Glanzmann>
shorter*
Guest1554 has quit [Quit: G-line: User has been permanently banned from this network.]
bcrumb_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.8]
vx has joined #asahi
vx is now known as Guest1648
faruk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
delsol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Glanzmann>
In case you don't already know it, but most in here probably already know anyway. :-)
possiblemeatball has joined #asahi
possiblemeatball has quit []
possiblemeatball has joined #asahi
Glanzmann has quit [Quit: n8]
leitao has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
seeeath has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
seeeath has joined #asahi
faruk has joined #asahi
faruk has quit []
<piroko>
yay
<piroko>
whoops
Zopolis4 has joined #asahi
nate8 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nate8 has joined #asahi
possiblemeatball has quit [Quit: Leaving]
delsol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<elvishjerricco>
IIRC, there was a thing near the start of asahi linux where there was a kernel parameter that adjusted for the fact that the ssd behaves very poorly with how linux usually syncs data to drives. Can anyone point me to details on that? I don't see it on the wiki. Or is that not a thing anymore?