marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<holiday>
hello, quick question, is asahi-nvram safe to use? Supposedly I broke my power on button and now i cant boot anything other than asahi(my recoveryOS is ok), the only way to switch back to macOS is using asahi-nvram right?
<ChaosPrincess>
should be safe, but use specifically the asahi-bless tool
<holiday>
i dont really know how to use it lol(the truth is im a lil paranoid and i dont want to break my turn on/off button) but i will try later
<holiday>
thx
<ChaosPrincess>
is it packaged by your distro already?
<holiday>
idk actually
<j`ey>
youre fedora, so yes
<nicolas17>
"i dont want to break my turn on/off button" didn't you say you already broke it? :P
<ChaosPrincess>
in that case install it using the package manager and run asahi-bless. you will understand what to do next.
<holiday>
nicolas17: I said "supposedly", i got very paranoid since a friend of mine broke it and apple said they have to replace the whole motherboard
<holiday>
ChaosPrincess: okk thankss
<nicolas17>
don't press it hard lol
<nicolas17>
sounds like people using AssistiveTouch on iPhone to avoid pressing the home buttom
<maz>
don't press it at all!
<holiday>
maz is onto something
<holiday>
let him cook
<maz>
my macs have had their power button used *once*. never again (the controlling PDU does the job).
<nicolas17>
maz: for turning on and off sure... how do you enter recoveryOS?
<maz>
nicolas17: as I said: *once*.
<maz>
m1n1 is installed, and I don't need anything else.
<nicolas17>
sounds like a typical use case (:
<holiday>
only one problems
<holiday>
problem*
<holiday>
if you leave asahi to sleep, the only way to wake it up is by pressing the button
<maz>
nicolas17: just as typical as anyone else using something other than macos on this HW.
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<as400>
ChaosPrincess if I set system:auto-boot to false machine will not boot when I open the lid ? Or it is not recommended to use asahi-nvram at this stage ?
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<ChaosPrincess>
as400: if you set system:auto-boot to false, the machine will not boot
<ChaosPrincess>
as in - at all
<j`ey>
o_O
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<as400>
ChaosPrincess: Never again ?
<ChaosPrincess>
auto here refers to booting from internal disk, without help from another computer.
<ChaosPrincess>
so welcome to recovery/dfu
<j`ey>
wow
<as400>
ok, understood. thx
<as400>
Not worth it then :P
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<ChaosPrincess>
to answer your original question - as far as i understand, there is no way to disable the "turn on on lid open"
<as400>
ChaosPrincess hmm, I read some reports of people that had to dfu their macs when trying to do that.
<as400>
or actually "after trying to do that"
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<leio>
can one do a one-off boot into macos with asahi-bless or whatnot for the next reboot without having to go through the boot picker/recoveryOS?
<j`ey>
leio: yes with --next or -n
<holiday>
u can change the boot order inside macOS if that's what you are asking
<holiday>
settings-general-startup disk
<leio>
j`ey: that writes to SSD and such still, but one shouldn't worry?
<leio>
or wait, it's actually a nvram in there too, not just some fake? :) /me goes reads first
<ChaosPrincess>
leio: that is literally what internal boot picker does
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<j`ey>
leio: yes write so the nvram/flasg
<leio>
ok, so not to worry, I'm just saving the power button as a side-effect then
<ChaosPrincess>
the boot process is not "cold and dark -> picker -> macos", but "cold and dark -> picker -> full reboot -> macos"
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<leio>
yeah, but in theory there could be reboot-persistent in-memory "next boot" thing, but not the case the
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<leio>
anyways, thanks, will try out for next macOS visit
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<holiday>
now that we have the m3 with a "redesigned" gpu, i am aware that asahi wont take advantages of the new features, but will the gpu drivers work like the m1/m2 does?
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<nicolas17>
ChaosPrincess: can I configure my Mac to always boot into the picker?
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<ChaosPrincess>
no, but actually yes with a ton of elbow grease and duct tape
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<ydalton>
holiday: marcan said the gpu for m3 hasn't really changed, "just a new shader ISA"
<marcan>
it has changed, it's just not some mythical complete redesign, it's still the same fundamental thing
<marcan>
we'll see
<nicolas17>
well it *could* have changed a lot internally but in ways that don't affect us
<marcan>
yes
<ydalton>
and also, marcan's m3 macbook pro probably hasn't arrived yet
<ydalton>
or has it?
<marcan>
it has not
<j`ey>
no match for lina though
<marcan>
but anyway no, the GPU drivers will need changing on both kernel and mesa
<holiday>
ydaltoI have read on the FEX-emu discord that alyssa said she wont work on m3, and lina will port their work
<marcan>
it just won't be completely new drivers or even significantly new drivers like some doomsdayers like to think :p
<ydalton>
marcan: really? that big of a difference? i remember for m2 didn't need any changes on the userspace side
<marcan>
a new shader ISA...
<ydalton>
well
<ydalton>
i can see why now lol
<marcan>
apple keeps things backwards compatible until they have a reason not to, this time they had a reason not to
<marcan>
doesn't mean they threw away everything and started over either
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<ydalton>
am looking forward to that bring up stream
<ydalton>
really? m1 and m2 has the same shader ISA?
<marcan>
yes
<marcan>
m2 needed zero userspace changes
<marcan>
m2 pro/max did though, some minor stuff
<marcan>
m3 is the first nontrivial userspace-visible change since m1
<holiday>
so if anyone tries installing asahi on an m3 mac right now it wont work?
<marcan>
duh?
<marcan>
we always have to add device support one by one
<ChaosPrincess>
next to nothing will work
<marcan>
absolutely nothing will work
<marcan>
literally
<maz>
marcan: did you see a dump of the M3 idregs anywhere? debating whether I should start saving money...
<holiday>
oooh
<ChaosPrincess>
maz: uart? :P
<marcan>
not the installer, not the kernel, not even if you made a device tree
<maz>
ChaosPrincess: not even sure!
<marcan>
maz: not yet
<ydalton>
that bad?
<marcan>
do not expect M3 support to be released until the M3 Mac Mini is released + 1 month, give or take
<ChaosPrincess>
i meant to tag the other m-name.
<marcan>
for CI/version reasons
<marcan>
ydalton: this is completely expected
<maz>
ChaosPrincess: no worries, the uart was relevant!
<ydalton>
i remember booting on m2 working on the first try
<ydalton>
after 8 hours or so of work
<marcan>
well yes, not 0 hours
<marcan>
and that wasn't with GPU or DCP or any of that
<holiday>
does this happen on x86_64 cpus too? like everytime a new cpu is released the linux maintainters have to rewrite code to make it work?
<marcan>
for some things yes, like cpu-specific drivers
<ChaosPrincess>
firmware does a lot more initialization on x86
<maz>
holiday: nothing to do with CPUs. everything to do with the *system*.
<marcan>
in general no because x86 has ACPI and a more stable architecture
<holiday>
well that is mildly infuriating
<marcan>
but you still need new drivers for things like new GPUs
<ydalton>
would m1n1 work at least? with #define BRINGUP
<holiday>
never knew that
<marcan>
so new major x86 chips with embedded GPUs are generally useless for general desktop use without a kernel update, yes
<marcan>
(and mesa update usually)
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<marcan>
(the apple thing where m2 was literally backwards compatible with m1 is unheard of in other vendors)
<holiday>
damn good to know, thanks for all the info :D
<marcan>
ydalton: m1n1 will probably start up and even bring up USB yes, assuming they didn't mess with DARTs again
<ydalton>
that's at least a start
<marcan>
that's because m1n1 uses *apple's* device tree
<marcan>
oh but actually no
<marcan>
we need to at the very least put in the CPU tunables
<marcan>
without that it's likely to explode
<marcan>
well, explode on the pcores at least
<marcan>
I *think* they haven't fucked up the ecores too badly without chicken bits yet
<nicolas17>
did you peek at the devicetrees in the ipsw yet?
<marcan>
not yet
<marcan>
ngl I'm too busy with Fedora to worry about M3, besides as I said for practical reasons this isn't getting released any time soon
<marcan>
once the thing arrives and Fedora is released we'll see
<nicolas17>
(now that an ipsw is actually out... they oddly published it a few days after the installassistant)
<ydalton>
that's rather quick lol
<nicolas17>
marcan: oh sure it would just be for curiosity reasons, and I figured you were probably too busy to care + you have a machine coming anyway
<holiday>
lol i thought fedora already released
<ydalton>
nicolas17: yep they're all there
<j`ey>
holiday: not officially!
<holiday>
j`ey: do we have a release date?
<nicolas17>
"when it's done" like for everything here
<marcan>
"when it's do-beat me to it
<holiday>
damn i should get to work then /s
<holiday>
or /j not sure how these work either
<j`ey>
if youve installed it already, you'll get everything with updates anyway!
<ydalton>
for me it's already there, i'm dailying this for school even if it's "not official"
<maz>
it will all be done right *after* I get NV upstream. that should give everyone a good break...
<nicolas17>
still procrastinating on replacing arch with fedora
<holiday>
j`ey: yep, I think it will be "complete" for most people when the speakers and vulkan drivers will work (i think there is still A LOT to do for vulkan tho)
<ydalton>
are there any workloads that require vulkan on asahi at the moment?
<ydalton>
aside from gaming
<holiday>
ydalton: same! but im constanly switching back to macOS because im faster and sometimes i need teams and other programs natively
<ydalton>
holiday: you can't use the web version for teams? that's what i do at least
<ydalton>
holiday: oh, i had a brainfart for a moment
<ydalton>
i meant to say: blender was running on asahi i think
<holiday>
ydalton: I do, but im a lot faster on mac when i see the app in dock and so on, I think it's how i got used to it
<nicolas17>
also no built-in speakers, mic, or webcam; you *could* use external headset for Teams, but still
<ydalton>
only with lina's development version
<holiday>
also im not 100% sure but it feels like asahi drains my battery faster
<holiday>
might be placebo
<holiday>
or because of hyprland
<ydalton>
nicolas17: well there is webcam
<nicolas17>
oh, I used webcam but I forgot that was already merged into stable branch
<holiday>
ydalton: yeah i didnt manage to run blender yet, and i want to learn 3D as a hobby
<ydalton>
holiday: yes, it definitely does drain more battery
<holiday>
also on mac i can play iphone games like reverse:1999 so i cant leave the dual boot yet :)
<holiday>
cant wait for the day i could
<holiday>
i love this project
<ydalton>
pretty sure you'll never be able to do that on asahi
<holiday>
fair, but more like daily driving only asahi
<ydalton>
oh
<nicolas17>
ydalton: you can't even do it if you disable system integrity protection on macOS :P
<ydalton>
seriously?
<nicolas17>
iOS apps are DRM-encrypted
<ChaosPrincess>
its an anti-piracy thing
<ydalton>
holiday: for me i've been daily driving it since school started
<ydalton>
ah yes, DRM
<nicolas17>
afaik disabling SIP disables access to the FairPlay keys
<holiday>
ydalton: i still use macOS at courses and during the week, I also love having two displays for work
<holiday>
on the weeknd i go hacker style and boot asahi
<holiday>
then run "neofetch" and go rant abt linux to my friends
<holiday>
average linux enjoyer behaviour
<tpw_rules>
watch -n 0.001 neofetch
<holiday>
weekend* damn i should stop listening to so much the weeknd
<ydalton>
tpw_rules: *shivers*
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<holiday>
im still scared to update to 14.1
<nicolas17>
hm I saw rumors of iOS 17.1.1 but seems that's not happening today
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<marcan>
nicolas17: I'm going to be lazy about speakers on arch *hint hint* :p
<marcan>
blender only requires GL 4.something, not vulkan
<marcan>
I have no idea what people think they need vulkan for lol
<marcan>
as far as I'm concerned it's basically only useful for dxvk
<i509vcb>
Probably the announcement that blender will eventually go full vulkan?
<marcan>
basically nothing else people do on Linux normally requires it
<ChaosPrincess>
interesting, there is both a j514c and j514m m3 max laptops, are the 14 and 16 core versions literally different chips instead of a binning thing?
<marcan>
blender only *just* enabled vulkan as an experimental backend, it will probably be a long time before they deprecate OpenGL entirely
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<marcan>
ChaosPrincess: unclear if different chips or they just upgraded the binned disabled memory controller to a full device ID change because it was making the DT diverge too much
<i509vcb>
The other thing you'll probably see Vulkan enter wider use for is making color transformation stuff in compositors less insane
<i509vcb>
but that's still not ready
<holiday>
marcan: people want vulkan for gaming most likely
<ChaosPrincess>
marcan: thats the thing, the dts barely diverge
<marcan>
weird
<holiday>
(i am people)
<ChaosPrincess>
only aic and a lot of phandle changes
<marcan>
holiday: yes hence the question of aside from gaming
<marcan>
(which is a very specific use case that a large number of people care about and a large number of people couldn't care less about)
<i509vcb>
webgpu on browsers is probably another thing Vulkan will be needed for in the near future
<i509vcb>
considering Chrome is shipping webgpu now
<marcan>
webgpu runs on opengl iirc
<i509vcb>
It's not going to be compliant under opengl
<nicolas17>
ew webgpu
<nicolas17>
marcan: yeah I figured you weren't gonna ship new features on arch :P
<u0_a176>
hey guys, I have my own kernel fork that I intend to use on fedora asahi, but for the life of me I cant get the gpu drivers to work when I compile my vanilla kernel, it always ends up software rendering. Any sugestions?
<nicolas17>
by "vanilla kernel" you mean upstream torvalds/linux?
<ChaosPrincess>
u0_a176: run `make rustavailable`, post output here
<ChaosPrincess>
(in kernel sources dir)
<nicolas17>
I may be wrong but afaik parts of the GPU driver are *not* upstream yet
<nicolas17>
(uapi?)
<j`ey>
nicolas17: all of
<j`ey>
upstream is not suitable for much really
<nicolas17>
then yeah I need a definition of "vanilla kernel" :)
<j`ey>
(headless m1 mini/studio, not sure about m2s)
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<adilh>
ChaosPrincess: ***
<adilh>
*** Your version: 1.75.0
<adilh>
*** Rust compiler 'rustc' is too new. This may or may not work.
<adilh>
*** Expected version: 1.68.2
<adilh>
***
<adilh>
***
<janneg>
even the m1 studio is useless due to no usb
<adilh>
*** Rust bindings generator 'bindgen' is too new. This may or may not work.
<adilh>
*** Your version: 0.68.1
<adilh>
*** Expected version: 0.56.0
<adilh>
***
<adilh>
***
<adilh>
*** Source code for the 'core' standard library could not be found
<adilh>
*** at '/home/adilh/.rustup/toolchains/nightly-aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu/lib/rustlib/src/rust/library/core/src/lib.rs'.
<ChaosPrincess>
something like that, dont remember the exact command
<nicolas17>
adilh: so by "vanilla" you mean *asahi's* kernel without any of your patches, not upstream, right?
<ChaosPrincess>
r4l is stupid, if it does not find rust it just silently disables rust and all drivers written in it instead of failing compilation
<pitust>
you need to do rustup toolchain install 1.68.2
<ChaosPrincess>
that is not neccessary
<adilh>
yeah not strictly "vanilla" but its a downstream fork of the asahi kernel
<ChaosPrincess>
just need rust-src
<pitust>
1.75 wont work
<pitust>
iirc
<janneg>
the m1 mac mini is also useless when booted with u-boot with pcie support. I still haven't got around to send patches for preinitialized ports
<ChaosPrincess>
ok, maybe 75 won't but iirc im using 72? sth like that
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<pitust>
i remember having issues with a not-much-newer rustc
<pitust>
just get the one thats tested
<nicolas17>
ChaosPrincess: there was a talk at KDE's Akademy conference about "no more optional dependencies" because of that problem
<janneg>
rustc 1.72 is the last know version good for the 6.5 rust/asahi
<adilh>
ChaosPrincess: rust is available but still getting the bindgen and rustc errors
<ChaosPrincess>
ok, make sure you enable both rust and drm_asahi via make menuconfig and build it
<janneg>
the rust support in the kernel uses nightly features which break from time to time
<nicolas17>
the argument was that if optional feature A depends on dependency X, and X is not found, then instead of disabling the build of A, it should *fail*, and if the user wants to "cmake -DFEATURE_A=OFF" then they can do it but it has to be explicit
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<leio>
they should just replace cmake with meson and get that out of the box, but hey (and kernel build system is quite a different beast too)
<adilh>
oh I see, the issue was the rustc version 1.72 worked for me