marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<jmr2> mps/povik: was a solution found to the soc_component_write_no_lock issue that was discussed on Nov. 18? I have a similar one on TAS2770/J313 that goes away when switching from my custom kernel config to the ARCH official one. I'm still digging.
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<ydalton> any plans to support an immutable variant of fedora asahi? something like fedora silverblue
<j`ey> eric curtin has started to look into it
<ydalton> cuz i just nuked my system by a mistake that would have probably been prevented had i been using an immutable distro
<j`ey> it uses osbuild (current images use kiwi)
<ydalton> for building images?
<j`ey> yeah
<j`ey> but I guess it shouldnt matter too much
<j`ey> https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi/kiwi-descriptions/blob/rawhide/f/make-asahi-installer-package.sh this is what turns the image into something the installer can use
<j`ey> also https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi-remix-ostree which is based on how I think the normal silverblue etc images are built
<ydalton> would be a lovely thing to try out
<ydalton> since afaik it's closer to what macOS does
<j`ey> yeah Im interested in it too (why I know all these links :P)
<ydalton> i mean you seem to know all the links for everything asahi
<ydalton> lol
<j`ey> hehe
<sven> there's also nixos which takes this a step further I think
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<ydalton> afaik nixos uses a config file for systems but it's not immutable?
<Foxboron> Not in the ostree-sense, it's not.
<Foxboron> But you can do snapshots between config changes and have some rollback support, so it sorta works in the same way
<ydalton> nixos uses images?
<ar> ydalton: usually not. you can generate system full system images with nixos, but that's not the way it's typically used
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<ar> ydalton: and while /nix/store (directory where nix persistently stores all of the configuration files/packages/whatever) isn't immutable per-se, it's made readonly for normal processes/users, including root (through namespacing magic). and while you can do, essentially, "mount -o remount,rw /nix/store", it requires conscious attempt at doing so
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<ar> not sure how updating/changing configurations works with ostree. it generates whole system images every time?
<ar> if so, nixos is a bit more flexible. (grossly simplifying stuff for clarity) configuration changes and updates create "generations", every "generation" has references to all packages, configuration files and so on that it uses; different generations can reference the same packages/generated configuration files and such from /nix/store if they're identical; you can switch between
<ar> generations at runtime (to certain extent; IIRC generation changes that would require systemd downgrade can fail), or even just within a given shell/interactive session to test things out.
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<j`ey> ar: ostree (AFAIU) has hardlinks, so each new image shouldnt take up double the space
<j`ey> but now Im not sure how that works if you download a new image for an update.. some magic I guess
<ar> if so, probably ends up using less disk space than nixos then. determining if things are "identical" in nix/nixos sense is a bit more involved and takes into account also identicality of all dependencies a thing has. hardlinks can be used to reduce disk space usage, but many things have things like paths from /nix/store in them
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<j`ey> DannyB: hey, can you join #asahi-alt?
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<Foxboron> It's probably easier to explain nixos as a symlink farm, that also rewrites rpath in binaries
<Foxboron> It's not.. an elegant solution when you peak under the hood
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<handlerug> Why is the asahi/mesa issue tracker disabled? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/asahi/mesa/-/issues There's a link to it on https://github.com/AsahiLinux/linux/issues/72
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<chaxor> Is there a way to get the brightness backlight changing capabilities of "org.kde.powerdevil.backlighthelper" from the plasma desktop install, but on the minimal setup? I am interested in making a simpler system on awesomewm (or sway if wayland is required / preferred), but battery life is one of the most important aspects of a mac laptop experience (>40h work time is the goal), so very low backlight
<chaxor> capability and hibernation is key.
<chaxor> Unfortunately at the moment 'powerdevil' ends up installing essentially the entire KDE plasma workspace for some reason.
<j`ey> chaxor: what exactly does that do? You can just change the backlight manually
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<PaulFertser> chaxor: yes, just write whatever you want to /sys/class/backlight/*/brightness or wdym?
<j`ey> better yet you can use dbus to do it as non-super-user
<chaxor> Ah, I think I see the issue. I installed the plasma and removed it with 'pacman -Rns (kde/plasma stuff)'. That seemed to remove all devices and files in /sys/class/backlight . Perhaps the minimal install includes this /sys/class/backlight/* files? (Perhaps not?)
<j`ey> uh, they should be there
<j`ey> oh, archlinux..
<j`ey> chaxor: I would suggest using fedora, the arch variant is not as well maintained
<j`ey> but if you have to use arch, you need the -edge linux package, to get the backlight
<chaxor> Installing the entire plasma kde desktop again adds those files back again so the brightness can be changed by altering those files. Perhaps I can try to remove everything again and *somehow* (?) keep the backlight files to adjust and look into hibernate as well
<j`ey> that doesnt make sense, those files are from the kernel
<PaulFertser> chaxor: everything in /sys is provided by the kernel, that's not affected by any userspace you install.
<nicolas17> they are not files installed by a package, they are pseudo-files created at runtime by the kernel
<j`ey> plasma doesnt add those
<nicolas17> they don't exist on disk
<chaxor> OK thanks, I haven't tried fedora and am more familiar with arch, but suppose it's worth a shot. I'm on edge now.
<PaulFertser> Probably it's some subdirectory in graphics/drm etc, try find /sys -name backlight
<chaxor> PaulFertser you mean when switching to sway? They show up on plasma
<nicolas17> I suppose it's possible that removing plasma also removes or unloads some kernel module that takes care of the backlight sys files
<j`ey> 'show up on plasma'?
<nicolas17> but even that is a stretch
<j`ey> chaxor: just try find them from the terminal, it shouldnt matter if plasma is there or not
<chaxor> yeah this is indeed strange. They werent there on sway, show up when getting into plasma. No idea why. I used the grub update way before and did many things in sway and awesomewm without seeing them. Started up plasma and now they're there which is odd
<chaxor> yeah from terminal just using ls
<j`ey> did you upgrade to edge before or after installing sway?
<chaxor> I think it was install full plasma asahi -> install awesomewm immediately -> switch into awesomewm and delete kde/plasma things -> install sway (thought it was wayland issue potentially) -> install edge -> try many things over several days to get backlight change or suspend/hibernate (including powerdevil) -> just installed plasma and switched into it and the GUI stuff on the bar 'just works'. Perhaps I
<chaxor> can just keep all the KDE junk sitting around and not use it, and just set the backlight file in sway if it stays there.
<j`ey> right, we dont know what you tried to get the backlight working on sway/awesome
<j`ey> but it was working *after* you installed edge
<j`ey> try this: busctl call org.freedesktop.login1 /org/freedesktop/login1/session/auto org.freedesktop.login1.Session SetBrightness ssu backlight apple-panel-bl 20
<chaxor> Oh maybe you mean sway needs to be installed after update grub due to some linking issues? I don't know a lot about kernel things really
<j`ey> no
<j`ey> after you installed edge, that's when you got backlight support, and the above command should work
<chaxor> yeah that works and seems to be similar to echo '20' | sudo tee /sys/class/backlight/apple-panel-bl/brightness
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<j`ey> right, so brightness is working
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<chaxor> OK just switched into sway and the echo / tee command into the backlight works now
<j`ey> my guess is that you were trying on sway before installing edge
<chaxor> Just had to install plasma/kde/powerdevil and login to it for some strange reason I guess? Yeah perhaps that was it too
<j`ey> it's definitely unrelated to the plasma thing
<chaxor> I'll try removing plasma stuff again and see if it sticks
<chaxor> Thank you!
<j`ey> hibernation doesnt work, only 's2idle'
<chaxor> does that persist to disk? I got suspend which takes 2% per hour unfortunately
<chaxor> I'll go read up on it
<nicolas17> it doesn't persist to disk
<j`ey> s2idle is suspend
<nicolas17> afaik neither hibernate nor suspend work, "s2idle" is basically "pause all userspace processes" and not a *full* sleep (but Apple Silicon is so efficient that it's actually pretty low power usage)
<nicolas17> I'm not sure if macOS is actually doing deep-sleep of the SoC?
<PaulFertser> One can use "powertop" to see how many wake ups how often are caused by which processes. s2idle is that kind of suspend where all of them are fully stopped.
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<ydalton> nice, libvirt seems to work out of the box in fedora asahi 39
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<ydalton> what's holding back gpu acceleration support in flatpaks? i thought the asahi mesa drivers were already included in mainline mesa
<leio> flatpak SDKs provide mesa
<j`ey> ydalton: probably old versions
<leio> there was some chatter in GNOME about it, don't remember where it went
<ydalton> leio: that makes sense, cuz i don't see mesa among my flatpaks whereas i had them before
<leio> iirc they are in freedesktop SDKs
<leio> there's support for extensions of some kind, maybe it'd be possible to ship it that way as an add-on sort of thing
<ydalton> yep, i launched a shell inside one of the flatpaks and there was no apple_dri.so in `/usr/lib64/dri`
<janneg> while most of the code is in mainline mesa the UAPI code is not as long as the kernel driver is not (about to) merged
<ydalton> janneg: well that shouldn't matter right? the only ones (presumably) using the mesa asahi drivers are using the asahi kernel anyways
<ydalton> as for flatpaks, does it mean every single flatpak needs to be recompiled to have `asahi_dri.so`?
<janneg> no, the idea is to build flatpak host extension and install that as package
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<ydalton> i dunno if i did it right, because i tried building that myself but it didn't make a difference
<j`ey> build and installed?
<ydalton> yes
<ydalton> well it was listed when i did `flatpak list`
<ydalton> i'll try building it again
<j`ey> ydalton: did you check out the right tag of mesa?
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<ydalton> it seems to be cloning libdrm from mesa but fetching a tarball from asahi/mesa
<j`ey> ydalton: dont you have to check it out manually?
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<ydalton> wdym, switch to a different branch?
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<j`ey> ydalton: did you download mesa, or did it happen automatically?
<ydalton> i ran a command `flatpak build-dir <file>.yml` and it started building the flatpak automatically
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<j`ey> interesting, to me it looks like you need to get the tarball manually, but maybe theres some magic
<j`ey> ah, the 'main' branch of mesa-asahi-flatpak checks out the tarball automatically
<ydalton> i think i need to check out this branch
<ydalton> i was linked to a different branch
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<ydalton> ugh, this is so much work, i think i will leave it be
<ydalton> or get to it another day
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<kidplayer666> I have been getting a really weird issue from time to time. (both on gnome and kde). During normal usage, without too much open, the swap randomly starts getting filled, and closing apps only mitigates the issue, as the swap starts filling up again, even with everything closed. Weird part is, htop says RAM consumption is pretty low, being filled mostly with cached data.
<kidplayer666> it leads to a system freeze if left unchecked, and i need to force a shutdown
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<nicolas17> "sudo smem -s swap" will show processes sorted by swap usage
<kidplayer666> Imma try it
<kidplayer666> Next time this happens
<kidplayer666> Problem is that I don’t have much time
<kidplayer666> Between noticing the issue
<kidplayer666> And it crashing
<ydalton> now that i think about it, can't you check htop to see ram usage per process?
<kidplayer666> Not sure regarding swap tho
<kidplayer666> I just gotta try it out next time it happens
<kidplayer666> Problem really is replicating
<kidplayer666> (To me the mildly competent user, obviously)
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<kidplayer666> (To the devs, it’s actually finding where the issue is and getting a fix)
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