<rennj>
The song is also featured in the "I Dream of Jesus" episode of Family Guy, in which Peter Griffin overhears the song at a diner and it turns out to be his favorite childhood song. He proceeds to annoy his family by taking the record from the diner and playing the song virtually nonstop for the rest of the episode
<rennj>
now a meme
<rennj>
good satire cartoon anyway about u.s.a. culture..
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<Begasus>
overkill in my view, like some other cartoons these days
<Begasus>
my nerves go over the roog when I only hear sponge bob
<Begasus>
roog/roof*
<Begasus>
grandson is a big fan from shark (family), not in my house!
<rennj>
crabby patties!
<rennj>
who lives in a pineapple at the bottom of sea?
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<trungnt2910[m]>
Are there additional requirements for building x86gcc2 from Linux?
<trungnt2910[m]>
Currently the build fails when I'm trying to `./configure` and build the cross tools for gcc2.
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<jessicah>
trungnt2910[m]: shouldn't require more than what's needed for other archs
<jessicah>
what's the error you're getting?
<jessicah>
trungnt2910[m]: oh, you may need the gcc multi lib packages installed
<jessicah>
for 32bit support libraries
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<Begasus>
hi jessicah :)
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<trungnt2910[m]>
<jessicah> "trungnt2910: oh, you may need..." <- Yeah, that was the problem. I got the compilers working now.
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<Begasus>
remind me to not go to rust stuff again after this ...
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<matt1>
peace, simply peace ...
<matt1>
;0)
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<Begasus>
thought by now the build for cargo-c would have errored out, but still building ...
<trungnt2910[m]>
I modified a few userland locale functions and boot is stuck on this.
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<trungnt2910[m]>
Strange, the same code boots well on x86_gcc2 hybrid.
<trungnt2910[m]>
It also boots on x86_64 in CD mode but not in OS mode.
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<trungnt2910[m]>
Haiku's so strange.
<trungnt2910[m]>
A full rebuild solved the problem (without any code changes)
<x512[m]>
trungnt2910: Some bugs in Jamfile's.
<x512[m]>
Some target dependency declarations may be missing.
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<Anarchos>
hello
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<matt1>
hello, simply hello ... :0)
<matt1>
bbl
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<waddlesplash>
trungnt2910[m]: if you changed the ctype headers its possible something didn't get rebuilt properly
<waddlesplash>
this may indicate you broke ABI compatibility
<waddlesplash>
that's OK in kernel mode but it's not in usermode
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<Anarchos>
Is there a mean to control the fan of a laptop on haiku ?
<rennj>
acpi failure if the fan is running full tilt
<Anarchos>
rennj no, it runs normally, but this fan is a chinese spare part, and it is noisy. same behaviour on win7 so no driver failure
<rennj>
well the bios/efi/uefi should throttle stop the cpu from melting..doesnt mean its running optimal
<Anarchos>
rennj any way do investigate what's happening , in haiku ?
<rennj>
when i got this laptop it use to idle at 50C which was terrible..took 3 years for proper support... idles at 25C now
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<rennj>
i would only know doing it in linux..no clue in haiku
<Anarchos>
rennj i know nothing about acpi
<Begasus>
heading down here, g'night peeps
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<rennj>
combination of acpi and the intel speedstep / amd powernow ...cpu frequency scaling foobar
<rennj>
besides apu have graphics cards in them, that also feature more power when plugged in, vs running off battery...
<Anarchos>
rennj you do'nt understand : it is only the fan which is poorly built and is mechanical noisy. I just want to let it run slower to do less noise
<rennj>
fans running cause of temp
<rennj>
i cant even here mine unless it goes up to 60C or so
<rennj>
only moving part in this laptop..someday fanless would be nice
<rennj>
also depends on watts...this is 15watt amd part, i had 45watt amd part...like 45watt lightbuld in a box
<rennj>
things get hot
<rennj>
noise fan replace it..with something else noctua all the kids seem to love
<Anarchos>
rennj some times it get stuck, the laptop goes hot, but runs perfectly
* Anarchos
uses a toshiba satellite C50
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<rennj>
toshiba acer asus gateway hp ibm..i try to spread the wealth around
<rennj>
canada border guards still have my asus core2duo laptop..stole my personal property and never returned it....
<rennj>
core2duo with nvidia9300 graphics..was nice laptop at the time
<Anarchos>
that is why i keep the hard drive with me, never inside laptop when i travel
<rennj>
it was encrypted why they stole it
<rennj>
heh
<rennj>
2007 before the iphone even
<rennj>
cause im sure if i had my 2007 android phone they would have stole that also
<rennj>
all my laptops could be stolen..you dont even get an operating system
<rennj>
no lesson is dont do a border crossing with any tech gear you dont mind them scanning...period
<rennj>
you know lawyers doctors and tech NDA
<rennj>
private information you dont want being disclosed
<Anarchos>
sure
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<missMyN900>
rennj: the "15W" stuff is misleading. It is only really 15W at base clock. How did they lower the TDP in such a short period of time? By lowering the base clock a lot (while still having much higher turbo clocks).
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<rennj>
no its not, its pretty straight forware ohm's law
<rennj>
my wall wort list the power it puts out
<rennj>
my olpc xo-1 was 7watts
<rennj>
national semiconductor/amd geode part
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<rennj>
this usb,lcd screen. etc...but the 15watt cpu is in spec..the olpc xo-1 was little more on point
<rennj>
they actually measured the whole laptop / oled display and such
<missMyN900>
rennj: how did AMD go from 35 W (Richland mobile) to 19 W (Kaveri mobile)?
<missMyN900>
check the base clocks and turbo clocks, then you will know the answer
<missMyN900>
same thing with Intel, do you honestly believe they magically managed to go from 35 W to 15 W in 1 gen?
<rennj>
cpu fequency scaling
<rennj>
they moved the voltage regulator also into the cpu
<rennj>
like i said my 2015 laptop use to run 50C idle didnt matter winblows/linux..they all ran it for crap
<rennj>
took 3 years..
<rennj>
finally late 4.x kernel/5.x kernel had proper amd cpu code so now my laptop idles at 25C
<missMyN900>
[1:57:11 pm] <rennj> cpu fequency scaling LOL that is exactly what I am talking about
<rennj>
besides the cpu frequency scaling code for the power governors, the fglrx vs amdgpu happened
<missMyN900>
but what that means is that the TDPs are fake
<rennj>
i can show you pictures..
<missMyN900>
because TDPs only apply at base clocks
<missMyN900>
and those are exceeded all the time
<rennj>
Mhz 1300,1600,2100 now i have veribable scaling inbetween those
<missMyN900>
[1:57:47 pm] <rennj> like i said my 2015 laptop use to run 50C idle didnt matter winblows/linux..they all ran it for crap -> the lesson here is: don't buy new hardware
<rennj>
Basically a DSDT table is the code run on ACPI (Power Management) events.
<rennj>
iasl compiler
<rennj>
yeah that sucker
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<rennj>
i did it on my gateway 11" amd system..cause i wanted features cpu supported but vender removed
<rennj>
oh and linux and probably freebsd also allow replacing the vendor acpi tables on boot...which is nice
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<missMyN900>
rennj: the best solution, however, remains carefully selecting your hardware
<missMyN900>
I don't know why you would want to support vendors that produce shoddy and buggy products in the first place
<rennj>
bestbuy isnt going to allow me to boot linux on their display models..ive tried
<missMyN900>
then, don't go to Best Buy and do your research online before buying
<rennj>
dont tell me what to do
<missMyN900>
surely, someone with as much experience as you have, would have no trouble doing that?
<rennj>
ive run linux on all my laptops...only os that ran the hardware and gave me a level of control
<missMyN900>
and I am saying it is doesn't have to be that way. At the end of day you are allowed to do whatever you want, but it doesn't make sense to me.
<missMyN900>
I mean when you are buying furniture, do you just run to the store without measuring first what actually fits in your home?
<rennj>
i dont buy furniture
<missMyN900>
it is an example
<rennj>
i dont have a home either..im a renter
<rennj>
you can wait and read reviews or be an early adopter
<missMyN900>
what exactly is the point of being an "early adopter"
<rennj>
like i said i tried 3 laptops
<missMyN900>
I mean when you are buying the latest and greatest, sure
<rennj>
i bought a acer it had secure boot you could not disable returned it
<missMyN900>
but when you are buying a $400 laptop like you said before
<rennj>
i bought a dell it had amd a8 apu
<rennj>
returned it
<rennj>
i selled on the a10 hp laptop
<missMyN900>
then there is little point in buying something that was just released and about which you know absolutely nothing
<rennj>
so i tried 3 laptop with linux..and selled on the hp model
<missMyN900>
what if there is some horrible design flaw or manufacturing defect?
<rennj>
which has been poweron now for 6years
<rennj>
i then took it apart and added 16GB of ram and an ssd drive
<rennj>
voiding the stupid warranty perhaps
<missMyN900>
which was very painful as you mentioned before
<missMyN900>
and which could have been avoided...
<rennj>
only painful because the motherboard is below the keyboard
<rennj>
its still been my best laptop yet...
<rennj>
i use to replace hardware every 2 years..now its been 6
<rennj>
my 8core ryzen laptop should be even better
<rennj>
when i choose to buy it
<missMyN900>
maybe you can buy one of those Clevos. Those should be easier to maintain/upgrade if you don't want to buy a business laptop
<missMyN900>
and consumer HP/Dell laptops are worst laptops you can buy quality wise
<missMyN900>
that has been proven by studies
<rennj>
what could have been avoided is if office depot or bestbuy allow me to boot linux on their display models..then they would not get returns
<rennj>
their stupid policy i cant change
<missMyN900>
and like I said, there are more options besides Best Buy...
<rennj>
my hp pavillion laptop just as good as my asus laptop
<missMyN900>
a sample of 1 does not prove much...
<rennj>
and it was $400 bucks
<rennj>
what the hell are you being argumentative for
<rennj>
you do you
<rennj>
ill do me
<rennj>
you have shit amd laptop great 1600x900 shit cpu performance..not my problem
<rennj>
should have done more testing or reading..not my problem
<missMyN900>
ok but you started ranting about all the things you had to do to get your laptops to meet your needs
<rennj>
i have great laptop
<missMyN900>
my "shit" laptop is perfect for my needs
<missMyN900>
I don't need a Ryzen 7 4800U for what I use that laptop for
<missMyN900>
I already have a Ryzen desktop if I need CPU power
<missMyN900>
it may be "weak" but it has 4 USB ports, an ethernet port, full size DisplayPort
<missMyN900>
proper build quality, RAM can be upgraded easily, fan can be cleaned easily
<missMyN900>
nice display, nice sound chip
<missMyN900>
WiFi card can easily be upgraded
<missMyN900>
I installed a 500 GB 860 Evo that is fast enough and has very low power consumption/heat production
<missMyN900>
CPU power is far from everything
<missMyN900>
that is the mistake a lot of noobs make
<missMyN900>
IO is more important in 80-90% of cases
<phschafft>
;)
<missMyN900>
as well as quality/reliability of course
<phschafft>
can't really remember ever running out of CPU power.
<missMyN900>
of course, you should know this as you yourself are still running a Bulldozer-era AMD laptop CPU
<missMyN900>
so you are hardly in a position to mock other people's CPU powerr ;)
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<phschafft>
the only thing I normally run out of is mass storage space and for several projects IO speed.
<rennj>
mock hah. i was telling them its either acpi which haiku lacks support for
<missMyN900>
you were mocking my laptop for its "shit cpu performance"
<rennj>
your the one babbleing about TDP, buy used, or whatever wait
<rennj>
cause you babble about nothing
<missMyN900>
ehm
<rennj>
argue to argue
<missMyN900>
anyway, I am not angry about you mocking my laptop
<missMyN900>
just find it strange that someone who also owns a Bulldozer-derived laptop CPU would choose to mock another Bulldozer-derived laptop CPU
<missMyN900>
phschafft: the moment I realized how little CPU performance matters these days is when I got a cheap Amazon Fire HD 8 tablet as a gift
<rennj>
yet you argued how possibly i could run 4 vm's the other day. you are not even consistent
<missMyN900>
Firefox for Android ran incredibly well on it despite the fact that it had a 1.3 GHz Mediatek Cortex A53 quad core
<missMyN900>
rennj: no, I have never denied that the CPU of laptop is relatively speaking incredibly weak
<rennj>
so now you know how much power you have...
<rennj>
congrats
<missMyN900>
I just said, it is *does not* matter to me
<missMyN900>
for what I am using it for
<missMyN900>
[2:52:27 pm] <missMyN900> I don't need a Ryzen 7 4800U for what I use that laptop for
<rennj>
yeah supercomputer phone in your pocket...
<missMyN900>
and I am not running 4 OSes on it at the same time...
<rennj>
once again like the a6 you bought, the 4800u is not something i would buy
<missMyN900>
I tested the A6 with an Ubuntu 22.04 live USB
<missMyN900>
literally the most bloated Linux distro possible
<missMyN900>
and still performance was acceptable when web browsing with Firefox or Chromium
<missMyN900>
even with heavy/ridiculously bloated websites
<missMyN900>
that is enough for me
<phschafft>
missMyN900: ;). let's face it. every computer from the last 10 years can do every standard task. which is also why I don't buy new stuff. used computers work fine. used monitors work fine. just need to have a little bit of an eye on what you busy from whom. bascailly avoid cheap stuff from private persons. ;)
<missMyN900>
and I will be running uBlock Origin and a lightweight distro/DE anyway, so daily use performance will actually be considerably better
<missMyN900>
phschafft: yes, I agree 100%
<missMyN900>
my 1080p monitor is 8 years old already and still going strong
<missMyN900>
I would avoid Samsung and LG though as I have read they use cheap Chinese capacitors in their monitors
<missMyN900>
(I have an Iiyama)
<waddlesplash>
tbh 4K monitors are worth it
<waddlesplash>
I upgraded a few years back to one, huge difference
<phschafft>
and for my very non-standard job the only thing I dislike is that there is literally not a single model out there with a good soundcard (but as there is none, no need to look it up) plus no fast ethernet interfaces.
<Saijin_Naib>
What do you need from a soundcard? Physical interface or realtime capability or...?
<missMyN900>
if it is just for listening you can always get a USB DAC
<missMyN900>
just check out audiosciencereview so you don't get conned by audiophile marketing nonsense
<Saijin_Naib>
Ah, yeah, nothing that onboard is known for, unfortunately. Though they've massively improved over the years
<phschafft>
and I started my computer life with the upper end so I'm a bit spoiled ;)
<waddlesplash>
personally I haven't noticed noise from most HDA chipsets
<waddlesplash>
MP3 distortion is far more audible than soundcard distortions :-p
<phschafft>
Saijin_Naib: my old Compaq had one onboard that was much better than any HDA chip I have ever seen.
<Saijin_Naib>
Oh, haha. That must be brutal! I've always been on integrated save an ancient ISA soundcard in my IBM Aptiva, so I grew used to hearing my CPU and disk IO via the soundcard haha
<phschafft>
waddlesplash: actually the HDA chips are on the lower end based on my messurements.
<waddlesplash>
make sure you aren't using them in 16bit 44100 mode or something
<waddlesplash>
HDA is just an interface, there's tons of variants of HDA implementations
<phschafft>
jup. one worse than the other. ;)
<waddlesplash>
well, I haven't noticed issues
<phschafft>
as you say they have a wide range of parameters in real world applications.
<waddlesplash>
I've just got studio quality headphones hooked up to the standard 1/8" out and it sounds great.
<phschafft>
I may have gotten the bad ones.
<waddlesplash>
or your configurations aren't great
<phschafft>
but generally speaking they were always the lower end.
<waddlesplash>
on Windows you may not get 24bit mode automatically
<phschafft>
with only the '3D sound' USB card (that is all that is written on it. it comes in several different colours and cases from several sources) being worse.
<waddlesplash>
also make sure "audio enhancements" are disabled, including vendor ones
<waddlesplash>
Linux of course doesn't have most of this so it's better out of the box
<waddlesplash>
but it stil might be in some strange mode
<phschafft>
waddlesplash: have you ever messured the sampling rate of the chips?
<phschafft>
or your specific implementation.
<waddlesplash>
it's configurable?
<phschafft>
na, I mean what it really does for a given configuration.
<waddlesplash>
but no, I never got hardware to see if the output sampling rate was the one I actually configured
<phschafft>
ok.
<Saijin_Naib>
Do you work in audio production, or do you use some esoteric analog sampling equipment or other equipment with analog control/signaling?
<Saijin_Naib>
No need to get too detailed, I
<Saijin_Naib>
am just super curious as to what problem space those parameters would matter for
<phschafft>
Saijin_Naib: I work in the broadcasting sector but also doing more low level stuff.
<phschafft>
plus having personal interests (I mean there is a reason you get into such a sector :)
<phschafft>
e.g. the sampling rate is something I actually need to discuss with clients often. for example it matters if you want to run in-store music in your next door supermarket.
<jessicah>
eh, I just use digital out and feed it into a quality amp
<jessicah>
not much can go wrong on the PC side then
<phschafft>
depending on the interface.
<jessicah>
:)
<phschafft>
e.g. if you use toslink the source provides the clock, so the sampling rate problem is still exactly the same.
<jessicah>
but for non-listening purposes, sure, probably want something dedicated or a USB DAC, but most I see are just headphone amps
<jessicah>
USB DACs that is
<jessicah>
ah yeah, I use toslink into my denon avr
<phschafft>
also: if you're happy with what you got I'm (most of the time) completly fine with it. and the cases it matters for me are special. yet relevant.
<phschafft>
but thank you for bringing this up. I should talk about clock de-syncronisation in my second next presentation (on real time streaming in mobile networks).
<missMyN900>
phschafft: I think you would audiosciencereview very interesting