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<lucienmaxwell[m]>
howdy folks, apologies as I'm pretty sure this is kind of a silly question, but what is the best way to follow asahi's development in "real-time"? the blog on the site seems like it only gets updated when something major happens. I think there are some devs on twitter or mastodon?
<amarioguy>
lucienmaxwell[m]: this is the place lol - pretty much most major and minor discussion of asahi development happens here (and the other asahi IRC channels too)
<lucienmaxwell[m]>
amarioguy: thanks. i'm hoping a fix for backlight is close. it's very hard for me to use asahi without that (unless i'm in a very bright area)
<amarioguy>
backlight was discussed somewhat recently i think? (not sure how high it is on the priority list though)
<tpw_rules>
iirc the backlight retains the last value you had it to in macos
<tpw_rules>
so you can boot macos, set the backlight to a comfortable level in your normal working environment, then asahi should do that (or "off")
<tpw_rules>
very annoying to change, yes, but that will let you fix the factory default nuclear lucienmaxwell[m]
<lucienmaxwell[m]>
oh nice okay, that might work, I'll give it a go! thanks!
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<lucienmaxwell[m]>
also, silly question, how do I boot back into macos? holding down opt key not working...
<tpw_rules>
shut it down completely, then hold down the power button. it will say like "loading startup options" or something, then you can let go
<lucienmaxwell[m]>
ohhh duh thank you
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<amarioguy>
lucienmaxwell[m]: heads up that if you're ever on an Apple Silicon desktop, apple's current status quo is to not init the framebuffer until macOS boots so on desktops you need to hold it down until you see the power led go a bit dimmer
<amarioguy>
(now *why* they do this is anyone's guess lol)
<tpw_rules>
i personally just hold it until the menu shows up
<tpw_rules>
my monitor is fast enough that it doesn't turn back off again
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<princesszoey>
I'm being outsmarted by a 60 line shell script. this is annoying
<psykose>
what's confusing you
<amw>
sven: Your right - CONFIG_I2C_APPLE is set and does cause i2c-pasemi-core.c to be compiled in, the CONFIG_I2C_PASEMI is for the PCI interface and confused me
<steev>
amarioguy: it gives people the illusion of an extremely fast boot
<princesszoey>
psykose something outside of asahi, I think I figured it out though.
<princesszoey>
is wine related
<psykose>
i don't recommend looking at shell scripts while drinking
<princesszoey>
zero issues with my 1000+ line shell script, but a 56 line one is beating my arse.
<princesszoey>
and this is written by the maintainer of wine on macOS, it should just work ™️
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<princesszoey>
welp, figured out why. stupid github (and me)
<marcan>
re Rosetta, I should expose the OSK keys from SMC in /sys... then in *principle* if Apple wanted to offer it to native Linux installs, they could keep effectively the same DRM. But it would be up to them to do that, since right now they very clearly say "Virtualization.framework only".
<marcan>
And also, that would require systemwide TSO, which I've been meaning to throw into m1n1
<rowang077[m]>
Would it not be possible to enable TSO per process (or whatever OSX) does?
<rowang077[m]>
Or possible but too much work for now
<marcan>
it is, and that's the longer term plan, but that's a pretty big bikeshed to paint as far as upstream goes
<marcan>
anything related to proprietary CPU features is always controversial
<marcan>
I do hope we can get it in though
<rowang077[m]>
I guess in the best possible world Apple starts offering it to native Linux. That would make upstream much more likely to accept it
<marcan>
we also want it for box86/FEX anyway
<marcan>
tbh, as far as "things Apple could do to help us out", official Rosetta-on-native support would be pretty cool (and easy for them once we have the necessary hooks in place), but I won't hold my breath either
<marcan>
I doubt that would happen until we have a much larger user base and more polished drivers at least
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<rowang077[m]>
Maybe then people will stop the: "Apple will pull the trigger on denying alternate OS on macs"
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<chadmed>
no theyll never stop that
<chadmed>
dropkicks have been spouting that bs since long before these macs came out
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<MichaelMesser[m]>
I thought Rosetta for Linux could easily be tricked into running outside a VM. What more could an official version do?
<ktz_[m]>
good morning guys, how was the utility some people here upload terminal output to a website?
<chadmed>
MichaelMesser[m]: not be illegal to use for one thing :P
<MichaelMesser[m]>
I would be absolutely shocked if Apple cared at all.
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<princesszoey>
damn, I expected that project to take my entire semester break. not 7 hours including time to integrate it into another project 🤣
<chadmed>
it's not about whether or not they care, it's about minimising *any* possible attack surface
<chadmed>
apple are not hindering us under the good faith assumption that we dont shit where we eat, so why risk pushing their buttons even a little bit
<chadmed>
likewise, i doubt they care if we "acquire" certain internal testing tools to extract information about eg undocumented processor registers
<chadmed>
but we still forbid it because the risk of them one day caring is there, however small it actually is, plus it is disrespectful to the way in which they are staying out of our way
<Lucy[m]>
As far as I understand, there wouldn't be legal issues with rosetta, if we're going by laws. But yes, Apple can still get aggressive about it and destroy anyone involved just with court fees
<Lucy[m]>
Not worth the risk.
<Lucy[m]>
If it's something people wanna do, they can do it themselves. Seems fair enough
<chadmed>
the legal aspect is entirely down to you "signing" a EULA when you first boot macos, in which you agree not to tamper with their DRM
<Lucy[m]>
EULAs are not legally binding however. The most they can do is prevent access to their services
<chadmed>
now reverse engineering stuff for our purposes (hardware interop etc) is legal in most western jurisdictions, however DRM is a no no
<Lucy[m]>
Depends where you live, the EU is a bit more strict, yeah
<chadmed>
australia doesnt even have interop carveouts so uhhh... dont tell anyone im here
<mps>
ktz_[m]: you use alpine I think. then 'apk add tpaste'. then 'cat somefile | tpaste' and you got url
<ktz_[m]>
mps: okay Sir, I'll try this as well, thanks
<ktz_[m]>
last thing, I've been trying to join asahi-alt via the element.io client but I can't find it regardless of the network I pick
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<mps>
(I would use IRC client for IRC)
<ktz_[m]>
weechat or?
<mps>
weechat is simple to setup
<princesszoey>
I just host a thelounge instance
<mps>
I use it as matrix client
<princesszoey>
paid for a VPS and a domain, why keep paying for irccloud too?
<miko>
weechat is really nice -w-
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<sven>
chadmed: yeah, imho this entire project is fun because we can very easily stay away from grey areas and just focus on making linux work. i kinda burned out on the whole console hacking things years ago because we always had to deal with entitled users who just wanted to pirates games
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<russell-->
oh, hi ... i'm wondering what the new m2 macbook pros use for wifi radios? i may be misinformed, but my impression has been apple hardware has seemed to lean heavily on broadcom radios in the past which made linux on them not so compelling.
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<j`ey>
russell--: same chip as m1 I think
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<princesszoey>
wifi works great on my M1 pro in Asahi fwiw
<princesszoey>
makes me not miss my ethernet connection with my dock
<j`ey>
(so yes, broadcom)
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<russell-->
what does lspci say?
<sven>
it's either broadcom 4378 or 4387 fwiw
<sven>
should be BCM4378B3 for M2
<j`ey>
so is t2 bcm4377?
<sven>
yes
<sven>
at least some of them
<sven>
there are others that have older/different chips that didn't expose bluetooth using that "Apple Converged IPC" but as UART instead
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<russell-->
maybe it's just ptsd but broadcom wifi on linux gives me nightmares
<j`ey>
havent seen many complaints about it for asahi
<russell-->
thank you
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<sven>
and even if there are weird issues we’ll make sure to fix them :)
<sven>
I’m gonna use this as my daily driver eventually and I really want it to work well
<mps>
I have broadcom wifi on few different machines with linux and it works fine (though I dislike broadcom because is closed)
<NikolayNikolaev[m]>
I wanted to report that yesterday I built the kernel with LLVM=1 and it works quite well so far on my m1max 14" mbp. Only had one issue with bluetooth and restoring back from suspend, which might not be toolchain related. Thats the asahi branch, 16k no other patches.
<sven>
huh, i thought suspend just doesn't work at all on the asahi branch?!
<j`ey>
NikolayNikolaev[m]: what kind of suspend?
<sven>
bluetooth suspend seems to work on the t2 chips fwiw
<NikolayNikolaev[m]>
Well I closed the lid for 10 mins. Is it not suspending?
<j`ey>
could test on m1 by just disabling wifi
<j`ey>
well if closing the lid does suspend, then it will crash
<sven>
j`ey: would be great! though I dunno if pcie even comes back up after suspend
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<mps>
pcie come back from suspend for long time, though suspend exits in seconds
<sven>
from s2idle?
<mps>
no from mem suspend
<sven>
what is mem suspend?
<mps>
echo mem > /sys/power/state
<sven>
that sounds like suspend-to-ram which i'd be very surprised about
<sven>
so, back to the original question, does pcie even come back up from s2idle? i remember that the power domain is set to always-on now but is that enough?
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<Chainfire>
NikolayNikolaev[m]: Chainfire: docker for osx will use rosetta and will run your x86 images, no? <--- I'll be running Asahi though :)
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<ar>
Chainfire: fooling "rosetta for linux" into running under other environments than a vm under macos is a relatively simple thing; people have even made it run on linux on arm from other vendors (iirc even on aws arm instances), but since this is breaking apple's eula i doubt people here will give you instructions on how to do that
<Chainfire>
ar: while the whole Rosetta thing is very interesting and no doubt I will play with that (does it already work with Parallels on 13 beta?), my original question was on the easiest way to dev/build/run my x86 docker images on Asahi (or Parallels VM) without having to overhaul the existing code. Not specific to Rosetta.
<NikolayNikolaev[m]>
The "easiest" would be to use cloud instances of your target arch. Everything else requires instruction translation which might or might no be easy to setup and will have perf hit no matter rosetta or not
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<Chainfire>
princesszoey: thanks for the info
<princesszoey>
np
<princesszoey>
I'm actually messing with it right now. or I would be if I had enough ram free x.x
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<sven>
ah, for 6.0 though
<sven>
er, wait
<sven>
yeah, nvm. So they did make it in time
<kettenis>
btw, the DMA controller driver made it into Linus' tree (for 5.20 presumably) with the different binding for the interrupts
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<j`ey>
kettenis: the audio one?
<kettenis>
yes
<j`ey>
ADMAC or whatever
<kettenis>
maybe now is a good moment to address that discrepancy
* povik
sweats
<povik>
we can just exchange the ADMAC commits in the asahi branch, with the DT changes
<povik>
there's no nefarious interdependency
<povik>
i have a bunch of other changes i want to release for testing but i guess i should do the ADMAC fix right away
<povik>
and not wait for the rest
<princesszoey>
is having Asahi installed going to mess up doing a battery replacement? macbook is already down 10% maximum charge after 9 months.
<princesszoey>
they refuse to do troubleshooting cuz I'm on Ventura because of work, but they said I could replace it under my applecare+ for free, so I'll do that
<tpw_rules>
that's weird and bad if they do. can you just back up and restore the machine to factory?
<amw>
Is there an easy way to tell which patches are "upstreamed" - they are all nicely split into bits/NNN-type
<amw>
I'm guessing that is related to the area/maintainer they are to be submitted to
<povik>
not necessarily
<povik>
more like the feature they provide
<povik>
e.g. the audio bits were/will be submitted to clock, dmaengine, alsa
<amw>
I think tomorrow I might start apply whole various bits/ branches to see if I can pair things down.
<sven>
almost nothing in bits/ is upstream
<sven>
probably actually nothing
<amw>
sven: ouch! - that's a lot
<j`ey>
amw: what feature would you remove?
<j`ey>
to end up with a smaller set of patches
<j`ey>
and.. at a certain point, 100 patches, is prbably the same as 50, which is probably the same as 150
<povik>
what :D
<j`ey>
what!
<princesszoey>
tpw_rules I gotta be on the betas for work. trust me, I'd MUCH rather not be. the first two developer betas were borderline unusable.
<princesszoey>
instead of my dock nicely dropping out a few times per day, it panicked my macbook every 30 minutes.
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<IcaroDextris[m]>
Is safe now to upgrade to beta Ventura?
<princesszoey>
yeah. it's way way less unstable than the first two
<princesszoey>
my dock now does the usual disconnect instead of crashing. that was REAL annoying.
<princesszoey>
just gotta unplug it and plug it back in and it's good again
<j`ey>
princesszoey: its safe now with asahi, the beta broke asahi for a bit
<princesszoey>
I know
<IcaroDextris[m]>
princesszoey: So no more unbootable asahi problem?
<princesszoey>
it's fixed. I just reinstalled asahi the other day again
<IcaroDextris[m]>
j`ey: Oh perfect thanks
<princesszoey>
didn't expect it to be fixed that fast so I uninstalled it to get the disk space back for a while, lmao
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<bluetail>
Hey. Was anybody able to fully utilize the m1 mac mini daily? I am already running 10 docker containers and run one application that always runs on my monitor...
<bluetail>
1 to 0% load. The only time it gets load is when reading a lot of files or copying
<bluetail>
now this is a luxury problem
<bluetail>
I just feel like a noob not loading it up haha
<bluetail>
I tried tdarr earlier but it wants gpu support which isnt given. Its basically a frontend that can run handbrake and the likes
<psykose>
my shitty vps with 12 services averages 2% cpu too, idle load is never high :p
<lkvrsfld[m]>
psykose: Well if running gitlab idle is kind of fucked
<bluetail>
I want my mac mini to be a on the fly video-compressor
<bluetail>
where I put a file into a folder
<bluetail>
and it spits out the compressed one
<bluetail>
How would I go about it?
<bluetail>
is it just a watchdog / crontab
<bluetail>
or is there something already available
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<Dcow[m]>
you can go with cron, but if you want really reactive arch here go for inotify
<bluetail>
starting with your bank account and password :D
<princesszoey>
locked in bitwarden behind my yubikeys
<bluetail>
where are your yubikeys stored
<bluetail>
the backups of em
<princesszoey>
one at home in a safe, other on my keyring
<bluetail>
no off-site?
<princesszoey>
have a 3rd on order to keep at a friends place
<bluetail>
oh thats good
<princesszoey>
recently realized it's counterproductive to only have usb-c ones heaven forbid I gotta plug it into something other than my macbook lmao
<bluetail>
imo yubikeys are not needed cause keepassxc exists and you get a really strong encrypted container
<bluetail>
they add a security layer on top yes
<princesszoey>
I use it as a smart card on macOS too
<difficultvelcro[m]>
You might have to use --manual and --preferred-chalenges=dns instead
<princesszoey>
don't most residental IP's block port 53?
<difficultvelcro[m]>
princesszoey: It doesn't work like tha
<difficultvelcro[m]>
you set a TXT record on your domain
<princesszoey>
ah.
<difficultvelcro[m]>
s/tha/that/
<princesszoey>
I only ever use LE on actual web stuff.
<difficultvelcro[m]>
it's actually kind of nice that it works for both
<difficultvelcro[m]>
I don't know why people pay for TLS anymore
<bluetail>
why without email flag
<difficultvelcro[m]>
idk
<difficultvelcro[m]>
I always do it
<bluetail>
haha
<bluetail>
I didnt know that u could do that
<difficultvelcro[m]>
from my knowledge, I think it publicly shares your email
<difficultvelcro[m]>
I don't want that, but you can omit that flag if you want
<bluetail>
I'll try
<bluetail>
but first I have a meal
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<nikorai>
I absolutely love this project, and I am really looking forward to the day I can switch to Asahi on my daily driver. I wish I could contribute to the project
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<nikorai>
This project have gotten me interested in learning about hardware, the Linux kernel, reverse engineering etc. Does anyone have some good resources on getting started? Physical books are welcome as well :)
<dottedmag>
marcan's streams?
<nikorai>
I will definitely check out more of his streams. The ones I checked out so far just seemed to require more knowledge in order to be able to follow along
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