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<j`ey>
IcaroDextris[m]: no
<j`ey>
IcaroDextris[m]: theres already a bunch of stuff in there, since 5.15.. 6.0 wont magically have the rest!
<tolopea1E0040[m]>
Will microphones ever be functional on asahi?
<j`ey>
tolopea1E0040[m]: yep
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<Tramtrist>
the asahi devs are purposely not working on mics tolopea1E0040[m]
<Tramtrist>
you'll have to fix it yourself
<opticron>
I hadn't heard that, I figured povik would get to it eventually
<Tramtrist>
They are all anti-mic. It's clearly stated int he wiki
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<opticron>
Tramtrist, I could see it not being a priority given it's just listed as "unsupported", but I don't think I've seen anything that's strictly anti-mic
<opticron>
Tramtrist, could you point me at that?
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<Tramtrist>
Guess the sarcasm has failed
<Tramtrist>
oh well
<opticron>
I've also have a drink in me, so I could just be missing it
<opticron>
:D
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<ss>
Sorry for the newb question, but which laptop model are most people using with Asahi?
<tpw_rules>
not sure there's one in particlular
<tpw_rules>
i would assume air because they are cheapest. but it doesn't much matter
<ss>
M2 is still more so alpha than M1, right?
<tpw_rules>
yes, but not by too much
<Tramtrist>
my understanding is they're very near parity
<tpw_rules>
i think the biggest thing is the internal keyboard not working in u-boot
<tpw_rules>
and by extension grub
<Tramtrist>
I bought an M2 last week in anticipation of Asahi completing
<Tramtrist>
(and finally learning macos)
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<Tramtrist>
I wouldnt't let the tiny difference in compatibility make that decision for you
<mini0n>
How does the development workflow for Asahi work? Is most development for the operating system done on mac os the compiled and ran on the other boot of Asahi or using a virtual machine? I would like to contribute more, however it is challenging lacking an apple silicone device.
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<tpw_rules>
there's not really much you can do without one imo
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<marcan>
FWIW I released the M2 Asahi release from my M1 Pro :) (fully, not just as a build host as before)
<marcan>
and it was my travel laptop the past few weeks
<marcan>
so yes, it's a perfectly fine dev machine!
<mini0n>
thats awesome
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<marcan>
tpw_rules: u-boot/grub keyboard on M2 is getting fixed soon
<marcan>
as in I might stream it in a few minutes
<mini0n>
Glad to follow the project and once I get an apple silicone start contributing
<marcan>
(Linus really needs that to travel with it, and I agree it really sucks not to have)
<marcan>
oh yeah, things I noticed while using it for travel:
<marcan>
- yes, it does somewhat cook itself if you stuff it in a bag (no sleep mode yet), but not *that* badly. it gets pretty warm, but not like emergency shutdown warm or burning your hands warm.
<marcan>
I *think* ultimately what's happening is there is no dissipation with no airflow, so the big chunky chassis ends up collecting heat, but it's not like the SoC is getting very hot itself when the machine mostly idle
<marcan>
- screen-off (lid shut) idle time is a good 16+ hours going by the battery estimate (which again is evidence it's not actually putting out that much power)
<tpw_rules>
have the mac mini monitor maladies finally been put to bed you think?
<marcan>
the boot framebuffer stuff? I think the DCP shutdown hack largely took care of that
<marcan>
- there's some issue with the trackpad driver, sometimes (after shutting the lid?) it dies. re-binding magicmouse fixes it, so it looks like a HID level issue? not sure, need to try to repro
<marcan>
also the SPI checksum failures still bug me, I need to figure out what's up with that
<marcan>
spi-hid driver probably needs an overhaul anyway
<marcan>
(I bet some of the knowledge from the MTP stuff also might transfer)
<tpw_rules>
the spi checksum thing smelled kind of like a race condition. i made some logs a while ago and the messages where the checksum failed didn't really make sense, like the transfer was just started or there was a cache issue
<tpw_rules>
i can try to dig them up if you think it would be helpful. but it's probably easiest to just make your own
<marcan>
I want to starting throwing kernel probe stuff everywhere
<marcan>
the event trace buffer thing
<marcan>
so we can just log e.g. every SPI event, and when bad stuff happens, dump that out
<marcan>
better than printking all the things
<tpw_rules>
yeah that second bit is definitely what i did. it would be great to see the probes in action, i've never used them before
<marcan>
yeah, same, I was reading up on it a bit during the trip
<marcan>
I was also just thinking I want to make an "asahi" catch-all tool/script, to just throw kitchen sink utilitles in there
<marcan>
like "asahi rebind-touchpad" to work around that problem, "asahi trace start spi" to enable spi tracing, "asahi trace save spi" to save it out to a file, etc. could even have some kind of auto-submission thing
<sjs>
marcan: sleep mode doesn’t work on both M1 and M2?
<marcan>
that might make it a lot easier to get actionable reports from users
<chadmed>
nope
<marcan>
sjs: full-system sleep mode is probably a ways away but doesn't *actually* matter much. s2idle isn't ready on any platform yet but I'm going to be working on that ~next
<marcan>
(s2idle will be good enough for ~everyone, given what I've seen on macOS)
<marcan>
(well, that plus CPU sleep)
<sjs>
That’s great to hear. I’ve always had intermittent sleep issues with Ryzen HP Envy.
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<chadmed>
i have not had a single amd64 machine be able to relibaly sleep since like phenom ii
<bluetail>
marcan, seeing you online. switching to NTFS fixed all my issues
<marcan>
yeah, I saw
<marcan>
fwiw s2idle works already, except for pci/wifi; that's the only blocker
<bluetail>
I love asking questions here. OpenVPN didnt work for me, WireGuard was recommended and I took 20 min to fully make use of it as opposed to being stuck all day with openvpn not doing its job (dns leaks)
<marcan>
once that works it'll at least be good enough to stuff in bags (cpus won't go into deep sleep, but it still freezes userspace so it's good enough to say "my laptop won't cook itself by accident")
<marcan>
then the cpu deep sleep stuff depends on the psci story, but I'll be looking at that after
<marcan>
also I need to throw in the xHCI firmware thing
<marcan>
better get that out of the way
<marcan>
so I guess my things to work on the next few weeks are: 1. u-boot MTP support, 2. USB xHCI firmware loading, 3. WiFi shenanigans (tracer, make sleep work, fix AP mode, btcoex), 4. s2idle (mostly just testing after WiFi works), 5. PSCI
<bluetail>
Any tip on becoming as knowledgable as you guys are? It's so cool. I'm still light-years away from it.
<marcan>
hack a lot on stuff :)
<mini0n>
practice makes perfect
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<bluetail>
does cracking count? Yesterday I used x64dbg to crack a free software which required a key cause its a closed-beta
<marcan>
kind of, though not exactly what we do here (and also, not a very appropriate subject tbh)
<marcan>
most of what we work on is closer to the embedded development angle, i.e. the arduino -> general microcontroller development -> driver development kind of pipeline, I'd say
<bluetail>
sorry. I'm just intrigued enough to try those things to understand it more. It's kind of like; It's not broken, I'll repair it anyways kinda mindset. Wasn't that something you wrote :D
<bluetail>
Thanks
<bluetail>
Yea. I'll dig into that
<marcan>
yeah, the technical aspect has some similarities, I just don't want to promote what ultimately is copyright infringement (even if just for a "closed beta" deal), so just avoid that subject here
<marcan>
but there are plenty of CTF challenges / crackmes that are the exact same thing but perfectly legal to do :)
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<marcan>
(I've written a bunch even)
* nicolas17
reads backlog
<nicolas17>
I had a Lenovo laptop that would sometimes spuriously wake up
<nicolas17>
I once took it out of my bag hot and with the battery nearly drained due to that issue :/
<marcan>
Macs have fairly impressive sleep time, and I'm convinced it's worse than it should be due to macOS doing stupid stuff
<marcan>
I left an MBP sleeping before going on vacation, >2 weeks later when I came back it was still alive at 1% battery
<chadmed>
yeah if you turn off powernap or whatever they call it its even better
<nicolas17>
how does powernap even work? does it keep fans off when it wakes for that?
<marcan>
the "nice" thing about s2idle is that it isn't really sleep, which means wakeups are entirely up to the kernel anyway
<marcan>
so it's a lot easier to make them not happen unless they should
<marcan>
e.g. right now I think we only really wake up on power button/lid open for the s2idle mode
<chadmed>
nicolas17: idk i assume its the same as wiiconnect24
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<nicolas17>
marcan: I think that lenovo had some stupid feature where if the battery went below X, it would wake and do some sort of firmware-level hibernation
<marcan>
ah yeah, that's common
<nicolas17>
and when waking from that, the firmware would load stuff from SSD back into RAM, and then Linux would think it woke from *sleep*
<marcan>
oh, that's weird.
<marcan>
I thought firmware-level hibernation was only a thing in the bad old APM days
<nicolas17>
and I suspect it had a bug where the "auto wake to do hibernation" would sometimes leave it awake instead
<marcan>
if anyone is bored enough, have fun :-) (that's a crackme)
<nicolas17>
at least that's my theory for why once in a while I would randomly find it awake in the morning or out of my bag
<nicolas17>
chadmed: speaking of powernap, I remembered an interesting mDNS feature on Macs...
<nicolas17>
there's something called "sleep proxy" where a Mac, when going to sleep, can delegate advertising of its mDNS services to another device in the LAN (such as another Mac, or an Apple TV)
<nicolas17>
so you send a mDNS query asking for SMB servers, and the Apple TV pretends to be the Mac (including the original IP address) and replies "yes hi I'm a Mac and I'm running SMB"
<chadmed>
a neat trick but i cant imagine there being too many uses for something like that unless you have a really really poorly designed home network
<nicolas17>
then when you try to actually connect to the SMB server, the Apple TV sends a wake-on-LAN packet to the Mac
<chadmed>
like the obvious thing is a USB printer shared from a Mac that is currently asleep but like... just dont do that?
<nicolas17>
the Mac wakes and takes its IP back and responds
<marcan>
nicolas17: the WLAN firmware on these macs has mDNS support (and ARP and ICMP I think)
<marcan>
so it can just do it itself, while the CPU is off
<nicolas17>
yes, that's the thing I remembered when chadmed mentioned powernap
<marcan>
not sure if we'll ever play the layering violation game needed to pull that off on linux, but I'm not sure if it matters anyway
<marcan>
they probably implemented that in the intel days
<nicolas17>
on some Macs, it wakes periodically to 'refresh' the sleep proxy registration
<marcan>
on m1 you can just afford to wake the damn CPU up
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<nicolas17>
on newer Macs, the network hardware either does that refresh, or responds to mDNS on its own (not sure)
<marcan>
one interesting question would be whether there's room for some kind of "selective s2idle", something like allowing a subset of userspace not to be frozen, and trigger a wakeup
<nicolas17>
see *that* sounds like powernap
<marcan>
might be something to think about for stuff like mDNS and just in general keeping services working while e.g. a desktop environment is suspended
<nicolas17>
because afaik during a powernap wake, iCloud can sync, email can sync, but random third party apps that are running won't get to use CPU
<marcan>
this is really all less about hardware power management and more about software power management
<marcan>
yeah
<chadmed>
yeah this sounds like a project for kde eco
<marcan>
ultimately this is all just a workaround for bad software that eats cpu
<marcan>
in an ideal world we wouldn't need any of it, stuff would just quiesce itself when not in use
<nicolas17>
"App Nap" is the main feature for that :)
<marcan>
you can probably achieve this with cgroups, something like restricting wakeup frequencies and CPU utilization from the kernel
<marcan>
wouldn't be surprised if some this already exists for e.g. android/etc
<nicolas17>
if a Mac app is in the background it gets throttled, if all its windows are entirely covered it may get suspended altogether
<marcan>
yeah, I want to see KDE play nicely with all this (KDE user bias :-))
<chadmed>
thats got to be a job for the wm/compositor surely
<marcan>
I have a list of "userspace things to work on" once the kernel driver story gets further along, and there's at least two things on it: real-time performance and the sleep/power efficiency/wakeup count stuff
<nicolas17>
chadmed: on macOS I'm sure there's all sorts of interaction between the compositor and the CPU scheduler that would make freedesktop people faint
<marcan>
also keep in mind macOS is *ugly* inside
<nicolas17>
Apple has some hilarious layering violations
<marcan>
like no offense, but Apple have no qualms about doing some really horrible stuff just to get the job done
<nicolas17>
I think I read of a syscall for Apple Arcade? :P
<marcan>
Linux tends to have higher standards for internal design
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<marcan>
just read some XNU source code... :-)
<marcan>
it's like Linux 20 years ago or worse
<marcan>
(which is one reason why apple still ship per-SoC family kernels, instead of a generic one)
<marcan>
(lots of #ifdef)
<nicolas17>
I'm not quite a kernel person ^^
<chadmed>
i wonder if the folks on kde eco will ever publish proper papers outlining their methodology and stuff
<nicolas17>
marcan: speaking of KDE user bias, any chance you'll attend Akademy? :p
<chadmed>
would be interesting to view from a hard science lens to try and reproduce or improve upon
<marcan>
sorry, I think I had my share of Europe trips for the year :)
<marcan>
plus covid is still not going anywhere
<nicolas17>
understandable :P
<marcan>
wouldn't have much to talk about yet though! but I think over the next year there will be mode DE integration stuff to work on, plus an eventual switch to Wayland (now that xwayland DPI scaling isn't broken on kwin, and once the GPU driver stuff is in place)
<marcan>
plus audio shenanigans, though that's more pipewire side
<marcan>
*more
<nicolas17>
I'll attend if Iberia lets me, long story -.-
<marcan>
funny, I've been waiting for *ages* to switch to wayland myself. my old blocker was middle-click paste, and then I switched to HiDPI while that happened, and now the xwayland thing is the new blocker
<marcan>
nicolas17: don't get me started on Iberia...
<marcan>
(and Lufthansa, for that matter)
<marcan>
seems ~all European airlines screw up these days
<nicolas17>
at this point it could be anywhere from "they cancel on me" to "I get to fly for free"
<marcan>
I have a ~€4000 ticket to claim from Lufthansa, let's just leave it at that.
<marcan>
(and legally they are on the hook for it)
<marcan>
need to write the claim, maybe later today...
<marcan>
wouldn't be surprised if this ends up taking a year+ and in court :/
<marcan>
but yeah, that's another part of it - clearly European airlines don't have their stuff together yet, let's hope they figure it out by next year
<nicolas17>
long story short:
<nicolas17>
act 1: I buy flight ticket, card bounces, reservation supposedly gets cancelled 24h later due to no payment... days later the charge shows up in my card
<nicolas17>
act 2: back and forth with Iberia/Visa/bank, they give conflicting answers, days later the charge finally gets cancelled... and I get a flight ticket in my email (?!)
<nicolas17>
Visa assures me the payment is cancelled, Iberia assures me the ticket is fine and paid
<marcan>
lol. lovely.
<marcan>
oh yeah, fun thing: that €4000 ticket got held *twice* on the card (which was my dad's), so he was out €8000. I'm pretty sure only one hold will actually clear, but yeah.
<marcan>
airlines are lovely.
<nicolas17>
act 3: bank asks for more info about the dispute, I tell them "no no they did deliver in the end, cancel the dispute and do pay them!", they do nothing, card billing cycle ends and the payment is still cancelled
<marcan>
(and also we're lucky to have emergency money like that, because this is all Lufthansa's fault/responsibility and it would totally *suck* for someone without the buffer to deal with it)
<nicolas17>
so now I'm stuck waiting to see if I'll fly for free, or if at any moment they will notice the discrepancy and cancel the ticket without notice, or something in between
<marcan>
heh.
<marcan>
maybe they'll try to claim it back later or something?
<nicolas17>
worst case would be if they tell me the ticket is not valid only when I get to the airport
<marcan>
yeah...
<chadmed>
look on the bright side, you can usually get a reliable and fast train as an alternative if traveling within europe
<marcan>
yeah, no such luck for me :p
<nicolas17>
it's a long swim there
<chadmed>
the fastest train between brisbane and sydney is like 20 hours and is an all stops service, the same drive is ~10 hours, the same flight is less than an hour
<chadmed>
heh yeah youre SOL if coming from outside of europe either way
<nicolas17>
the akademy organizers have a fun new challenge this year... brexit
<marcan>
plus with Russia being so nice and friendly, all the Japan-Europe flights now take... "interesting" routes.
<nicolas17>
bringing a ton of event-related stuff from UK to Spain and back, now has to go through customs...
<chadmed>
LMAO thats awful
<nicolas17>
marcan: I think the map projection is making lh717 look worse than it is, but still yikes
<marcan>
yes, it is
<marcan>
but still, yeah
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<marcan>
also, that one was *really* funny on the IFE, because the map software got really confused by that route and ended up wrap-glitching when drawing the great circle paths
<chadmed>
flying to/from europe from this part of the world sucks enough without silly routes like that, especially coming back
<marcan>
and JL46 is worse than it looks, again due to the projection
<marcan>
it actually looks closer to a straight line on the map than the usual route through Russial, but it very much isn't
<marcan>
*Russia
<marcan>
time-wise they're both similarly bad
<chadmed>
the jetlag from flying "forward" in time is just the worst thing ever since theres no way to creatively time your flights so that you land home ~the same time it was in the timezone you left
<chadmed>
which you can do flying "backwards"
<nicolas17>
I remember a bug in some OpenStreetMap tools when rendering lines that crossed the 180th meridian, and someone wondered how Google Maps dealt with that issue
<marcan>
I've just resigned myself to melatonin
<nicolas17>
turns out they simply don't have any roads there :P
<marcan>
I used to have horrible 2+ weeks of jetlag before that
<nicolas17>
"google solves the issue of routing over the date line really elegantly: it has no highways in that region"
<marcan>
nicolas17: I used to work at google, and IIRC the global networking stuff needed fixes when they finally added fiber routes that crossed the russian part of things, because it would crash with a full circle
<chadmed>
yeah last time i came home from greece i had to take a semester off uni because i just could not stay awake or alert for long enough to do anything meaningful during the day and lost like a month's worth of content
<marcan>
(most of the intertubes are Europe - America - Asia, there's relatively little completing that circle)
<nicolas17>
lol
<marcan>
chadmed: ouch :/
<marcan>
yeah, try melatonin if you haven't yet
<marcan>
(if you get ~2mg pills, half or a quarter ~1h before sleeping should be enough)
<marcan>
thankfully it's OTC in spain
<nicolas17>
jetlag is relative if you're already not sleeping in your proper timezone
<marcan>
it is, but it just makes things worse then
<marcan>
since e.g. for the events in spain I tend to go to sleep at like 3AM anyway
<marcan>
and then that's like 10AM in Japan
<chadmed>
i was taking some other medication at the time that would not have mixed well with it so i just decided to accept the massive L :P
<marcan>
ah...
<marcan>
(curious, didn't know that melatonin had significant interactions? given it's a natural hormone and all)
<chadmed>
i was on a course of benzodiazepines
<nicolas17>
"Melatonin is metabolized mainly by CYP1A enzymes. As such, inhibitors and inducers of CYP1A enzymes, such as CYP1A2, can modify melatonin metabolism and exposure. As an example, the CYP1A2 and CYP2C19 inhibitor fluvoxamine increases melatonin peak levels by 12-fold"
<chadmed>
so yeah adding melatonin on top of that probably would have just made it harder for me during the day
<marcan>
not finding a whole lot on benzos+melatonin other than some articles that seem to conflate melatonin and sleeping pills (which are something else)
<marcan>
ah, some reference to increased binding?
<chadmed>
yeah sleeping pills are benzos here, i dont think barbiturates are ever prescribed anymore
<marcan>
honestly though, you could probably have taken a small dose and seen if it helps, it doesn't sound like it has a large potential for interaction
<chadmed>
yeah lessons for next time
<ptrc>
a
<chadmed>
my sister just got back from italy a couple of weeks ago actually and seems to have fared quite well which shocks me but she has a 9-to-5 and is neurotypical so... maybe it shouldnt shock me ;)
<nicolas17>
pfft
<nicolas17>
neurotypicals, how do they do it
<marcan>
it really depends on the person, and sometimes you can get lucky with the sleep timing during the flights and all
<marcan>
also it used to not be that bad for me, you know, 8 years ago
<chadmed>
i wish theyd bloody tell me
<marcan>
so I'm guessing age matters too :)
<marcan>
nicolas17: mood
<nicolas17>
also, remote was worse
<nicolas17>
because i'd wake really early to catch early european-time stuff in the event, then go to sleep at *my* night
<chadmed>
me being woken up by lina's ED at 4am and not being able to get back to sleep :P
<nicolas17>
ED?
<chadmed>
outro music
<marcan>
:D
<marcan>
that song is *really* catchy
<dottedmag>
nicolas17: My experience in a very similar situation: AirMalta refunded me the ticket, but then noticed the discrepancy and asked to pay again. Why would they cancel the ticket?
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<ivar>
Anyone else having issues with the curl https://alx.sh | sh command?
<ivar>
* Connection #1 to host asahilinux.org left intact
<ivar>
sh: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `<'
<ivar>
sh: line 1: `<!doctype html><html lang=en>'
<ivar>
➜ ~
<j`ey>
weird
<chadmed>
you need to pass -L to curl
<j`ey>
chadmed: yeah, dunno why though, should work without
<whynothugo>
Bluetooth won't work with an updated system: failed condition check ConditionPathIsDirectory=/sys/class/bluetooth
<ktz_[m]>
hello, I'm having trouble booting asahi after trying an upgrade. I tried reininstalling, had to reinstall macos and then even dfu'd and with a clean install still here I am. Anybody?
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<janrinze>
ktz_[m]: try with only keyboard and mouse in USB
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<janrinze>
ktz_[m]: oh.. you're runing on a macbook air.. so i think that doesn't apply.
<ktz_[m]>
yeah
<janrinze>
nothing in the USB ports?
<ktz_[m]>
well I got the charger, I have no battery inside
<janrinze>
so you reinstalled macos and after that did a full asahi-linux install?
<whynothugo>
j`ey: Yeah, I _think_ I didn't change anything in my setup. Failed to boot after a kernel update.
<bluetail>
Is it difficult to install plasma xorg or however its called when I chose the minimal setup? If so, is there a script that does just that? I want my mac mini to always A) (read from my MIDI keyboard) B) Display a browser in fullscreen mode
<ktz_[m]>
janrinze: yeah although doing it from 1tr was failing and I ended up having to dfu which partially failed as well but it actually installed macos, then I went ahead and installed asahi just the bootloader+efi partition (3rd option)
<whynothugo>
Oh, I think the vmlinuz was non-compressed...?
<j`ey>
bluetail: why install minimal if youre just going to install xorg?
<bluetail>
I was xorg and then went minimal manually
<janrinze>
ktz_[m]: so there isn't any linux partition and no grub..
<bluetail>
But then I found I might need the UI
<j`ey>
bluetail: so just reinstall those packages you removed!
<bluetail>
I dont need anything custom?
<bluetail>
Used to believe there was a special xorg conf
<ktz_[m]>
janrinze: yes, I think I was getting the same error on uboot even back when I had them installed
<j`ey>
whynothugo: the .zip has no firmware, but your esp partition should have it
<mps>
whynothugo: also I didn't used grub but had to relearn basic again when started to use M1
<whynothugo>
I tried to figure it out but failed. Honestly, lilo->grub1 was an upgrade, but grub2 was always too hard for me.
<mps>
whynothugo: I read today on #riscv channel that systemd-boot also can't boot kernel on some riscv boards
<whynothugo>
Yeah, it basically only supports amd64 and [partially] aarch64.
<whynothugo>
It's just rebranded gummiboot.
<mps>
whynothugo: heh, this was also my 'path', but had to learn this new complicated grub
<whynothugo>
I'm honestly not very keen on trying to set up grub when trying to recover a laptop that is already not booting due to breaking initramfs.
<j`ey>
(if initramfs is the issue..)
<mps>
though beside lilo,grub1, syslinux I have good experience with u-boot
<whynothugo>
systemd-boot was last updated Jul 18, and my uptime today was two days.
<whynothugo>
So the installed version is known to work.
<whynothugo>
Oh, I will likely recosider systemd-boot in future. But first I want to fix this :P
<mps>
whynothugo: you can boot asahi with only u-boot but then uefi will not be active
<bluetail>
How would I go about cloning the current asahi configuration so that I could re-deploy it? Do simple programs like timeshift do?
<mps>
I think j`ey still does this
<whynothugo>
You mean boot straight into a UEFI bundle/kernel?
<bluetail>
who
<mps>
whynothugo: no, u-boot loads kernel, initramfs and sets parameters for kernel
<mps>
no need for grub or systemd-boot
<whynothugo>
Oh. I can try that in my current scenario without much risk.
<whynothugo>
Do you just put the kernel in $ESP/EFI/BOOT/BOOTAA64.EFI?
<whynothugo>
No, that's too easy XD
<tpw_rules>
extlinux.conf is the obvious way to do it
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<mps>
yes, create /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf and set options there, do not add FDT or FDTDIR
<mps>
or on ESP /extlinux/extlinus.conf is better iirc
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<whynothugo>
Copied /boot/vendorfw/firmware.tar into the bootable USB, but still no wifi adapter found.
<whynothugo>
mkinitcpio warns -> depmod: WARNING: could not open modules.builtin.modinfo at /tmp/mkinitcpio.RBtajz/root/lib/modules/5.19.0-rc7-asahi-2-1-ARCH
<whynothugo>
I do see the file exists in /lib/modules/5.19.0-rc7-asahi-2-1-ARCH
<psykose>
meaningless warning
<whynothugo>
Given my initramfs seems to be broked, good to know XD
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<kettenis>
let me remind folks that the UEFI bootpath is the only one that is fully supported
<whynothugo>
There's another boot path? :P
<bluetail_>
BIOS
<kettenis>
yes, the extlinux.con suggestion uses the legacy bootpath
<bluetail_>
how come the m1 running linux is so strong
<bluetail_>
I'm already running 10 docker container and still its like bored :D
<kettenis>
if you go that route, s2idle may not work as well in the future
<j`ey>
bluetail_: because the m1 is fast
kefu is now known as kefu-away
<ar>
bluetail_: was your last x86 laptop a dual-core low-voltage machine?
<bluetail_>
Has anybody managed to max it out in a meaningful way, as a 'servant' ? Might be easier running ffmpeg or so to max out
<bluetail_>
ar, a lenovo t490
<bluetail_>
but for reasons of stupidity, my desktop has a 5800x3d and a 6950xt
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<bluetail_>
ar, the t490 runs vastly faster on any linux
<bluetail_>
It gains much perf running i3wm as window manager
<bluetail_>
if one is used that is
<dviola>
hi, would it be possible one day to wipe macos from a m1/m2 and use linux only? is there anything preventing that?
<Willmish[m]>
I think you can do that now, no?
<Willmish[m]>
not 100% sure though
<dviola>
you can? oh...
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<ChaosPrincess>
you can, but you shouldn't for now
<j`ey>
dviola: you can do it, but it's not recommended since there's no way to install system firmware updates without macOS currently
<dviola>
j`ey: yeah, that's what I meant
<Willmish[m]>
Yeah best to probably leave it an min disk space if you are not using, in case something goes oopsie
<Willmish[m]>
so i gues you can't fully
<Willmish[m]>
my bad
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<dviola>
would be nice to be able to do a fresh install without even touching macos also
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<Willmish[m]>
don't think you can install Asahi from a flash drive atm, but correct me if im wrong
<Willmish[m]>
but would be nice :)
<Willmish[m]>
Also: Is there somewhere a full feature list for Asahi atm? Trying to figure out if I can use a thunderbolt monitor with usb hub + charging over thunderbolt. I saw somewhere that Displayport is not supported atm so guessing its not, but maybe someone is working on it?
<Willmish[m]>
Or can someone point me in a direction where I can find more info on it/how would I go about trying to add support for it?
<sven>
note that that branch is usb3 only and doesn’t do thunderbolt yet
<Willmish[m]>
im rather fresh to linux/kernel development (only dabbled a bit with embedded Zephyr RTOS, emphasis on little bit), do you have any tips on how I might get around testing it?
<Willmish[m]>
Or should I look for an easier entry point hah
<sven>
did you read what j`ey wrote? It’s not meant for testing yet
<Willmish[m]>
right right
<whynothugo>
It works! It seems there was a new `HOOK=(asahi)` in the default mkinitcpio, but it was missing from my overrides file.
<j`ey>
Willmish[m]: yay
<whynothugo>
Also seems that vmlinuz must be uncompressed, but initramfs can be gzip'd.
<j`ey>
for systemd-boot
<whynothugo>
Correct.
<whynothugo>
I think it would be safest to never compress vmlinuz; it's the "works everywhere" choice (sadly).
<whynothugo>
The missing hook made me break everything tho, and I can't even figure out when it was introduced.
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<whynothugo>
So what's a good alternative to systemd-boot/gummiboot what's simple and won't bring issues? Syslinux was mentioned but is unsupporetd by Asahi it seems.
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<ChaosPrincess>
i think refind has an aarch64 port
<tpw_rules>
what is wrong with systemd-boot?
<ChaosPrincess>
writing loader files by hand is annoying if you compile your own kernels
<Arian[m]>
At least I had some issues getting systemd-boot working on aarch64 with kernel bundled into the UEFI image
<Arian[m]>
something weird with objcopy and cross compilation
<Arian[m]>
(Not asahi-related per say)
<mps>
whynothugo: grub works for most of us
<mps>
whynothugo: syslinux is x86, not arm
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<whynothugo>
Arian[m]: Did you manage to get it working with a UEFI bundle with image+initramfs+cmdline?
<whynothugo>
tpw_rules: Mostly not supporting gzipped kernel.
<mps>
I managed to use syslinux on one old macbook (2009) with uefi but it is cumbersome to setup and unstable to boot
<j`ey>
whynothugo: or make systemd-boot support gzip :P
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<whynothugo>
It bothers me to no end that gummiboot was renamed to systemd-boot; now anyone who hates systemd will avoid it. It worked fine as a standaloen project.
<Arian[m]>
it's still basically standalone. `src/boot/efi` has no dependencies on the rest of the systemd codebase
<j`ey>
Arian[m]: yeah but it's called systemd-boot now ;)
<whynothugo>
Exactly. But the _rename_ makes it unpopular. I'm sure alpine would never embrace it, for example.
<Arian[m]>
🤷they forked udev to and udev is super intertwined with systemd today
<Arian[m]>
this seems trivial to fork to me
<sjs>
So is the consensus that Linus is currently working off of an M2 Air running Asahi?
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<j`ey>
sjs: yes
<j`ey>
it's just a fact :P
<sjs>
Haha, no need for consensus when you have facts
<j`ey>
he's running fedora, not arch though
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<sjs>
Oh interesting. I knew he was a Fedora guy, I wasn't sure if he switched to Asahi when he started working on the Air.
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<mini0n>
How do we know m2 Air?
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<j`ey>
mini0n: it was said in a non-public email
<whynothugo>
Arian[m]: You mentioned using a UEFI bundle... on asahi?
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<difficultvelcro[m]>
Would VeraCrypt work with Asahi to encrypt the Linux partition?
<mps>
whynothugo: yes, someone tried to add systemd-boot to alpine but 'we' didn't allowed it :)
<mps>
because of name
<Dementor[m]>
Quick question
<Dementor[m]>
I found a 2nd hand Mac Mini M1
<Dementor[m]>
If i go ahead and decide to buy it what should i check when buying it ?
<Dementor[m]>
Is there a way to check against apple that its not stolen etc ?
<sven>
make sure it's not activation locked
<sven>
if it's significantly cheaper it probably is
<Dementor[m]>
@sven how can i check that ?
<whynothugo[m]>
mps: Did gummiboot make it?
<sven>
Dementor[m]: talk to the seller i guess to make sure it's not connected to any apple id anymore. i'm not aware of any other way
<Dementor[m]>
I mean is that something i can check myself in the menues etc ?
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<Dementor[m]>
i guess i can also have them factory reset the machine so i create a new account and login to my apple id ?
<Dementor[m]>
or the last part doesnt matter ?
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<sven>
i'm not sure if factory reset removes the activation lock
<Dementor[m]>
i dont think it does i'm saying i'll do that after removing/verifying activation lock is disabled
<sven>
yeah, that should be fine
<Dementor[m]>
also whats your opinion on a 8gb vs 16gb ?
<Dementor[m]>
8gb sounds low to me but maybe since these machines have very fast memory it doesnt matter that much ?
<sven>
my macbook air has 16gb because that'll be my daily driver and I always run out of RAM eventually
<j`ey>
16 is worth it
<Dementor[m]>
thats what i thought firefox alone can eat that alone
<tpw_rules>
i'm reasonably sure factory resetting at least via a DFU and erase rerandomizes all the encryption keys and TRIMs the ssd so yes i would recommend it
<ChaosPrincess>
activation lock is a thing that is tied to apple servers, dfu restore will not remove it
<tpw_rules>
more accurately a DFU'd mac will check with apple's servers that it is not activation locked before allowing you to proceed
<Dementor[m]>
also if I go for a macbook air m1 what would you recommend i check ?
<Dementor[m]>
speakers/wifi/mic/camera ?
<Dementor[m]>
<tpw_rules> "i'm reasonably sure factory..." <- I wont be able to reset via DFU since i dont have another mac
<tpw_rules>
you can do it on linux too
<Dementor[m]>
thats good
<Dementor[m]>
also it will take a bunch of time no ?
<tpw_rules>
maybe half an hour. plus the 13GB download. but it's not too hard of a process and provides the best assurance the thing is clean
<tpw_rules>
i wrote a guide if you'd like it
<Dementor[m]>
yea that would be awesome
<Dementor[m]>
also can i download the 13gb ahead of time ?
<Tramtrist>
Mentioned there as well.. basically remove the Asahi partitiion
<Tramtrist>
As clover[m] said you can always dual boot based on the normal installer.. Not a lot of risk there really
<cocode>
But if there is any problem, do you know if M1 has some kind of procedure for reinstall system easily? Or in case of loss of system it is necessary to take it to the technical service of Apple?
<Skirmisher>
cocode: you can restore an M1 Mac from virtually any state, but you need a second computer, either another Mac (using Apple's official restore tool) or any other machine (using idevicerestore)
<Skirmisher>
and a USB-C cable (A-to-C is fine)
<Skirmisher>
idevicerestore being a command-line tool
<Skirmisher>
cocode: however, if you are able to follow the Asahi installer instructions, there's not much way to make your Mac unbootable
<cocode>
Ok, I thought I might have some kind of hidden partition with a basic system that would allow me to do this without the need for a second computer.
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<cocode>
Thanks for help
<Skirmisher>
np
<Skirmisher>
the macOS recovery environment is the only "recovery" system on the same machine, beyond that it's just DFU restore mode, which is in ROM so it will always work, but requires a second computer to download and transfer macOS
<nicolas17>
cocode: there is a recovery partition, but what if you screw *that* one up?
<nicolas17>
that's what DFU mode is for
<Skirmisher>
the recoveryOS will come up automatically if the M1 fails to boot properly, unless you manage to erase it
<dottedmag>
cocode: DFU is a fallback if everything else fails.
<Skirmisher>
otherwise the machine goes into DFU mode automatically I think (there's a special procedure to force DFU mode though)
<Skirmisher>
and yeah, it's strongly recommended to keep macOS as dual-boot, and you can change which OS to boot by holding down the power button (or Touch ID button on laptops iirc)
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<nicolas17>
Dementor[m]: you can download the macOS ipsw file in advance from https://ipsw.me/MacBookAir10,1 and then pass the filename to idevicerestore
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