ChanServ changed the topic of #aarch64-laptops to: Linux support for AArch64 Laptops (Chrome OS Trogdor Devices - Asus NovaGo TP370QL - HP Envy x2 - Lenovo Mixx 630 - Lenovo Yoga C630 - Lenovo ThinkPad X13s - and various other snapdragon laptops) - https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/aarch64-laptops
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<JensGlathe[m]>
Did you copy over the dtb to the EFI partition and enable the Linux support in the BIOS? Should work on the X13s
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<Grabunhold>
JensGlathe[m]: yes, i did
<Grabunhold>
the failure to boot the fedora images is the screen turning black a few seconds after the kernel loads. debian testing and ubuntu actually manage to boot into the UI
<JensGlathe[m]>
Hmm and let me guess it didn’t
<JensGlathe[m]>
Well the setup via Ubuntu should be possible. Could be a fun exercise writing the uefi boot entry
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<Grabunhold>
I'd prefer the fedora installer, but i'm in the thick of installing fedora w/o it. I've used the LXD fedora41 aarch64 root filesystem archive and extracted it onto a partition.
<Grabunhold>
I'm no stranger to stuff like this, I've managed to get gentoo running on a ppc64le machine (raptor talos2) and, a few years ago, on an itanium machine.
<Grabunhold>
but I'm more accustomed to the manual way gentoo works and struggle to replicate what the fedora installer would normally do
<Grabunhold>
for example, right now i'm chrooted into the rootfs of my would-be fedora install and trying to generate a grub config. while i'd be okay with simply writing my own grub2 config by hand, the whole point of using fedora is avoiding doing too much by hand
<Grabunhold>
/etc/default/grub doesn't seem to be respected, and i'm not sure why yet
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<Grabunhold>
i had to create it by myself, so i'm under the impression that I'm missing some packages
<Grabunhold>
i've tried "dnf provides /etc/default/grub", and that says "grub2-tools" - but that's installed. maybe all of this would be a better fit for a fedora channel.
<Grabunhold>
maybe i should use the fedora41 aarch64 rootfs at as a base for install. the reason i'm not simply dd-ing that to my nvme is that it uses btrfs and has no disk encryption, while i'd prefer XFS and maybe disk encryption.
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<Grabunhold>
okay, so the good news is that i managed to get fedora to load a kernel w/o resetting or turning the screen off or black and never returning.
<Grabunhold>
i used the "Fedora Workstation 41 Raw" aarch64 image as a starting point, created a tar archive of the rootfs subvolume of the btrfs and extracted that onto a newly-created rootfs on my x13s
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<Grabunhold>
it seems, by the way, that the source of the black screens is loading the device tree twice. i have the dtb file at the root of my EFI partition and the linux boot option turned on, but i've ALSO used the "devicetree blabla/sc8280xp-lenovo-thinkpad-x13s.dtb" line. only after i removed that line from my grub config did the black screen problem go away
<Grabunhold>
the problem is now that the whole boot process only spits "permission denied" errors and never succeeds. not sure why, we'll see.
<Grabunhold>
i feel it has something to do with SELinux and loosing extended file attributes due to my little rootfs tar trick
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<Grabunhold>
let's boot without that
<Grabunhold>
we're booted :)
<Grabunhold>
straight to gui login
<steev>
why not gentoo on it? i think nerdboy got it running on an x13s (though he refuses to join here for some reason :( )
<steev>
bamse: fwiw, i changed the .name in dwc3-qcom-legacy to be dwc3-qcom-legacy, and the error is gone; dwc3-qcom does seem to be the one being used, and usb does seem to still be working
<Grabunhold>
steev: i spend most of my computer time on my (gentoo) desktop, having the x13s compile chromium for 8 hours every time i want to use it isn't very appealing.
<Grabunhold>
i know there are ways around that, but i think i'll keep gentoo to my desktops
<steev>
surprised it takes 8 hours on the x13s
<Grabunhold>
steev: i haven't tried, that was just a hyperbole
<steev>
maybe use chromium more than once every 6 weeks? :P
<Grabunhold>
i already have gentoo on ppc64le, where chromium doesn't even compile without a bunch of patches :D that's enough for now
<Grabunhold>
i'm actually very much behind on wold updates for my ppc64le install
<Grabunhold>
since i don't use it as a daily driver these days
<Grabunhold>
that needs to change again
<Grabunhold>
*world updates
<steev>
the life of a gentoo user
<Grabunhold>
my daily driver is a ryzen 9 5900x, no world update problems here :)
<Grabunhold>
in fact, gentoo was a reason to spend a little more on the compute power instead of getting a ryzen 7 or something
<steev>
i still run it on my efikamx, which is a single core 800mhz arm with 512mb ram
<steev>
though i obviously do not run chromium on it
<Grabunhold>
wow, compiling the kernel will take some time though
<steev>
nah, it still runs 3.0
<steev>
i am too lazy to dig out the schematics and port the support to mainline
<Grabunhold>
it seems fedora has it set up that way: boot/dtb: symbolic link to dtb-6.11.4-301.fc41.aarch64
<Grabunhold>
let's see if deleting sc8280xp-lenovo-thinkpad-x13s.dtb from the root of the efi partition will fix the black screen issue. loading it through grub hopefully enables automatic updates through dnf.
<steev>
though, a year or two ago, someone did ping me to show me they had done it with the efikamx to2 (non-desktop)
<steev>
that is very weird, because i specify the dtb every time i boot, and i have it in efi partition
<steev>
though i'm on debian (kali really)
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<Grabunhold>
i suspect it's the double-loading, but we'll see about that
<Grabunhold>
i'm a little confused, too. all i can say is that i get a black screen when i load the devicetree from grub, and boot fine without it.
<steev>
alas, i know nothing of fedora, except it has some awesome devs
<Grabunhold>
which firmware version does your x13s use? i got my x13s only a few days ago and updated the firmware from the windows install.
<Grabunhold>
i noticed the firmware is only 2 weeks old or something
<steev>
2.17 i think it is
<Grabunhold>
so you might probably be on an older version that doesn't cause that problem?
<steev>
the download said 2.15 or some such
<Grabunhold>
not sure
<Grabunhold>
let's see if deleting the file from the efi partition allows me to load it via grub
<steev>
"HostBiosVersion" : "N3HET91W (1.63 )",
<steev>
i think it was the t14s that is 2.15
<steev>
or 2.17
<Grabunhold>
yep, deleting sc8280xp-lenovo-thinkpad-x13s.dtb from the efi partition allowed me to load it from grub
<Grabunhold>
let's see that firmware version number, gimme a sec...
<Grabunhold>
it's incredible how blurred the text in the efi firmware menu is. i wonder how anyone at lenovo sees that and says "jep, let's ship that". the ibm rs/6000 from the early 2000s from my little hardware museum has absolutely crisp output from the very first second
<Grabunhold>
i get that on the PC platform, they have all the old ibm pc stuff to deal with so there are some excuses there
<Grabunhold>
but on aarch64?
<Grabunhold>
steev: "UEFI BIOS Version N3HET92W (1.64)" "UEFI BIOS Date 2025-03-03"
<Grabunhold>
not loading device tree: device resets upon kernel load
<Grabunhold>
loading device tree via the firmware (placing it in efi root): works fine
<Grabunhold>
doing both of the above: black screen upon kernel load
<Grabunhold>
loading device tree via grub: works fine
<steev>
interesting, i did not get offered that update the other day
<steev>
ah, 1.64 was released on the 25th
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<Grabunhold>
iirc that was the day i got my x13s :D
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<steev>
just upgraded and can't reproduce, i have the 6.14 dtb in the root of the efi partition and specified it in grub as well and here i am :)
<Grabunhold>
maybe it's somehow specific to the fedora kernel. i'm running 6.13.8-200.fc41.aarch64
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<steev>
maybe :)
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<Grabunhold>
interestingly enough, even though fedora has the newer kernel, sound and temperature readings from htop are missing (when they worked fine on debian testing)
<Grabunhold>
maybe debian carries some downstream patches here
<Grabunhold>
batterie state is unknown, too. that worked on debian testing as well
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<jhovold>
Grabunhold: everything is in mainline for the x13s so there are no downstream patches
<jhovold>
sounds like the adsp firmware has not started
<jhovold>
then you lose sound, battery, and usb-c orientation detection and dp-altmode
<Grabunhold>
jhovold: thanks for the info, what can i do about that?
* Grabunhold
will be back in about 30mins
<Grabunhold>
also: what do you think about the black screen / dtb double loading stuff?
<jhovold>
make sure the fw is available when starting the remoteprocs (e.g. in your initramfs)
<jhovold>
I have heard of fedora users having to start the adsp fw manually
<jhovold>
start with checking your dmesg for errors (e.g. when trying to load the adsp fw)
<jhovold>
dtb loading sounds weird, should be fine to override using grub, but I don't use the fw-loading myself
<jhovold>
display can go dark due to missing deps in initramfs, for example
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<jhovold>
I think fedora suggested blacklisting the fw-loader at some point, should only be needed for usb boot, but make sure that's not still in your cmdline
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<robclark>
Grabunhold: this is what I do on fedora to ensure remoteproc stuff starts without needing adsp/cdsp fw in initrd:
<robclark>
(that is on yoga 7x but same should work on x13s)
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<masked>
i'm going on a witch hurt to find the culprit who stole my asus vivobook 15s tomorrow
<masked>
i haven't heard a word since i reported it
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<Grabunhold>
jhovold: re: black screen: i don't think it's anything with the initramfs. i can reproduce it by simply deleting / adding the devicetree line in the grub config or adding / deleting the dtb file on the efi partition
<Grabunhold>
robclark: interesting, i will try that!
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<Grabunhold>
robclark: worked instantly, sound and battery state became available as soon as i ran that echo commands. temperatures in htop remain missing, but running "sensors" shows them just fine so i guess it's a htop problem
<robclark>
\o/
<Grabunhold>
thanks @ robclark :)
<robclark>
I wonder if btop does better?
<Grabunhold>
there you go, 34°C
<Grabunhold>
nice!
<robclark>
\o/
<Grabunhold>
i must say i really like the hardware
<Grabunhold>
as a sysadmin, i spend a lot of my time editing ansible files, communicating, reading documentation and heavy terminal usage.
<Grabunhold>
i think this is the almost perfect laptop for that.
<robclark>
kb on x13s was a bit compact, but I really like it.. 7x is my daily driver now
<robclark>
w/ f41
<robclark>
(but my own built kernel.. which I'd be doing regardless of distro since I work on both KMD and UMD)
<Grabunhold>
well, i'm typing this on a keyboard that's heavier than the whole laptop :D
<Grabunhold>
when i'm using the laptop, i'm really on my sofa or something like that. so the keyboard, while not perfect, makes the right tradeoffs for me. sure, it could be better, but that would also alter the weight and size and other aspects
<Grabunhold>
for my usecase, the tradeoffs hit damn near the sweet spot so far
<robclark>
I do miss pgup/pgdn keys... so maybe t14s would be better in that regard.. but since I'm buying these with my own moneys I'll stick to what I have
<Grabunhold>
but i haven't really made heavy use of the device yet, so we'll see how it feels 12 month down the road
<Grabunhold>
oh, i have the german keyboard layout. that DOES have pgup/down
<Grabunhold>
i'm missing "insert" though, that's only available using fn. that's the worst aspect of it all for me
<Grabunhold>
i'm a shift-insert guy
<Grabunhold>
shift-fn-insert is just bad
<robclark>
x13s was I step up in compile times for kernel/mesa from my previous kbl laptop.. but 7x / x1e-78 is way faster... I don't even use my desktop xeon thing anymore (but $work threadripper is still nice)
<Grabunhold>
the 8 cores seem to do a pretty decent job so far if the workload is parallel enough
<Grabunhold>
especially considering that it stays relatively cool and has no ventilation whatsoever
<Grabunhold>
hmm, i was hoping on getting the fedora40 live iso to boot so i can simply run the installer from there, creating the encrypted rootfs and stuff, without having to do that myself from the ubuntu live iso
<Grabunhold>
but no dice so far
<robclark>
yeah, x13s is nice if you want fanless.. 7x has fans, not too annoying/intrusive but they'll kick in when you push it
<Grabunhold>
(41 has no live medium for aarch64, was planning on upgrading after the installer ran)
<Grabunhold>
i get a blinking bar on the top left of the screen and nothing else ever
<robclark>
hmm.. #fedora-arm on libera might have better ideas on installer iso'
<robclark>
s
<Grabunhold>
i might try that. or i might try to replicate the installer's work regarding encrypted rootfs :D
<robclark>
I used preinstall img plus my own kernel and grub config to install on 7x, but that was last aug while there was still a lot more in flight on kernel side
<robclark>
userspace is pretty stock other than the systemd stuff I pasted to kick remoteproc's and audio/ucm bits
<Grabunhold>
yeah, i hold off on the x13s for a little while until i had a feeling that the support had matured. hands full already with the gentoo ppc64le machine in that regard :D
<Grabunhold>
*held
<Grabunhold>
re: fanless: that's definitely the way to go for me, my current ryzen-based thinkpad doesn't like it too much when the blanket on my sofa or in the bed clogs it's ventilation slots :D
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<zayd_webirc>
Hi, how usable are the X1P or X1E processors? I was looking at the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6 SnapDragon but got told that those processors are "rough around the edges", how bad is it?