ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
<Calandracas>
oh nice. I thought it was still experimental
<Calandracas>
I guess I'll add it to the mesa package on void
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<PaulFertser>
chadmed: my point is that corporate interests hinder the ability of the community to self-regulate. And also that LF are not just preparing fancy presentations on their Macs but actually _own_ the project, judging by what James Bottomley said when maintainers were removed. I do not say all the problems are new, of course they were slowly developing for long time.
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<PaulFertser>
And that currently we are at the point where it's fair to say it's no longer a community but a set of paid actors.
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<PaulFertser>
I think this theory nicely explains why m arcan's tactics do not work. You just do not talk reason to a mental health hospital patient and do not talk ethics to a Wall Street broker.
<fl0_id>
PaulFertser Also communities are not naturally good at self-regulating. Or self-regulating looks like people leaving or not engaging. which is ofc not what you want. so it needs a lot of work, and willingness to not establish hidden power structures (f.e. in a hackerspaces it's convenient if there's someone who is there most of the time and take care of maintenance, helps newcomers etc. but they might not be there forever and ideally work would be more
<fl0_id>
distributed etc)
<fl0_id>
PaulFertser your polarity is not necessary either though for things to not work. it's never just a community. people always have other interests. And the sad truth IMO is, like in other places, the alternatives are often just talk to the people anyway, or hide/go away. So there's not really an alternative to his tactics. Though ideally he shouldn't go it alone but have more backup
<chadmed>
what we have witnessed is just a factor of managerialism and it happens everywhere, not just corporate type environments
<chadmed>
everyone loves being a firebrand idealistic agitator for change until theyre thrown a crumb by the superiors in whatever organisation theyre in, then all of a sudden the agitators for change are out of line and "not following the process" etc etc
<chadmed>
the backup should have been maintainers, the backup should have been linus
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<PaulFertser>
"And I do believe the fact that essentially all high-level Linux kernel maintainers and contributors are paid by corporations to do it is a major factor that has caused this community to become wildly out of touch with what it means to be a community FOSS project." <-- m arcan
<chadmed>
yeah thats fair and i dont disagree that it has _something_ to do with it, its just reductive to put the blame squarely on corporate sponsorship of the project
<chadmed>
again, this happens to some degree to literally every single organisation ever
<chadmed>
except maybe the hellsing organisation :p
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<psykose>
helsing the weapons company or hellsing the anime
<chadmed>
the latter
<sven>
people are complicated. developing software is also complicated. combine these and you’ll always get a mess that you have to somehow navigate. in my experience there’s never a single cause for the mess
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<PaulFertser>
For the reference, when Greg says "obviously we all speak for ourselves here, and our companies _know_ they can't tell us what to do" that does seem contradictory to James Bottomley "Please accept all of our apologies for the way this was handled... we're really sorry it's come to this" and then when asked "who we" he says "the views of a number of people I talked to but it's not fair of me to
<PaulFertser>
name them." what else can be forcing maintainers to hide their identities saying "sorry" to fellow developers other than corporate pressure?
<psykose>
is there a link to some new lkml discussion
<Soni>
reality is relative and sanity is overrated
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<Soni>
anyway if you really wanna deprecate the very concept of an "upstream" we have an untested solution (or is that an experiment) for that
<j`ey>
we dont
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<Soni>
that wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, but anyway
<Soni>
for the asahi maintainers specifically, we do wonder if it's just because you benefit too much from that power structure, and so you're unwilling to destroy it?
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<balrog>
chadmed: I've seen this kind of thing play out frequently across fields and it pretty much comes down to what you said above, and while corporate involvement can make things worse that's absolutely not a prerequisite or even direct cause in most of the cases I've seen
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<chaos_princess>
really annoying that all arm platforms end up having to run downstream vendor kernels
<mooskislide>
hello, new to irc and new to asahi, just to make sure, does the cpufreq feature (available with a note on my M2 air) allow me to underclock my laptop?
<chaos_princess>
no, but you can enable a power state governor that will force it to be in a low p-state at all times (don't do that, it is a bad idea)
<mooskislide>
so if my goal was to squeeze the maximum efficiency out of my laptop, i cant do any better than Macos low power mode
<chaos_princess>
pretty much
<mooskislide>
thanks king, much appreciated
<j`ey>
and lower speeds dont always equal better efficiency
<mooskislide>
yeah absolutely, but id like the chance to test all points
<chaos_princess>
if you are on a base m1/m2, just turning the screen to min brightness will get you like 90% of the way there
<mooskislide>
do you perchance know of any writeups or people who've gone to extreme lengths for efficiency, doing anything possible?
<mooskislide>
how do i reply to msg
<chaos_princess>
mooskislide: like that
<mooskislide>
brother idk what u did lmao
<chaos_princess>
anyway, not exactly the platform to do the hypermiling stuff, the voltages are locked, so even if you win the silicon lottery, you can't take advantage of it
<mooskislide>
Hypermiling is driving or flying a vehicle with techniques that maximize fuel efficiency. Those who use these techniques are called "hypermilers". In the case of cars, this is an extreme form of energy-efficient driving.
<mooskislide>
thanks for introducing me
<mooskislide>
this sounds very interesting
<mooskislide>
what i wanted to reply was about brightness, ik the system already uses like 2-3 Watts minimum which is insane
<psykose>
undervolting is so fun, what a shame
<chaos_princess>
yea, and unless slam all cores with max loads, the main power consumer is the screen backlight
<mooskislide>
i love undervolting so much, i love efficiency so much
<mooskislide>
the der8auer video on 4090 efficiency was very interesting
<chaos_princess>
get an x86 chip then :P
<mooskislide>
50% power limit being the most efficient
<mooskislide>
lowkey chaos_princess, im also very lazy, ive got a 2600 ryzen cpu but ive only set a power draw limit
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<abby>
<chaos_princess> really annoying that all arm platforms end up having to run downstream vendor kernels <- qcom/snapdragon 8cx/x1e stuff is getting upstreamed by linaro
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