<TwinkyDick69[m]>
> It should be searchable under the matrix.org directory.
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
I dont see it there
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
Maybe its just me I guess
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<nephele[m]>
I can find it
<AlwaysLivid>
The chat is named "Haiku (interpunkt) Main" under Matrix and it's the third result when looking up "Haiku" on matrix.org
<nephele[m]>
but matrix is always finicky about when it likes to return results or not
<nephele[m]>
for many of the logo ideas on the forum the beta3 text is way too tiny, on my netbook i might entirely miss it, and i doubt people with low vision have an easy time with such small text either :)
<AlwaysLivid>
I think I could take advantage of the thing I did with the permanent market everywhere because it's actually invisible.
<AlwaysLivid>
But people will vote on both the logo and the beta3 text at the same time and we can't do it separately.
<nephele[m]>
I don't see why not
<AlwaysLivid>
Because the competition has already been started and people will just vote on a PNG, not a mix-and-match set of two PNGs.
<nephele[m]>
It seems silly to restrict us to what PNG can express when we have much better formata, and that would include imo the main style and the label style
<nephele[m]>
I really would be worried if PNG start landing in the sourcetree as the source for new logos... that would make changing it in the future really hard
<nephele[m]>
Also, why are we holding a new contest again?
<AlwaysLivid>
I don't know, but I'm personally very annoyed because we have already gone over all the different reasons as to why they are flawed and just keeping up at arbitrarily coming up with competitions without consulting the community or asking people that could probably figure out that the logo and the version are two entirely different things just adds more "exhibits" in my arguments.
<AlwaysLivid>
Either way, I'm just trying to produce work under relatively suboptimal conditions.
<nephele[m]>
maybe bring it up on the ml?
<AlwaysLivid>
I personally think that the way the competition that has already begun is structured right now encourages low-quality work rather than the "best logo will be voted by the community and included in a meritocratic manner".
<nephele[m]>
trying for "the best" logo imo will just leave everyone disapponted
<AlwaysLivid>
I already brought all of this up on the ML, the only good thing regarding this competition in comparison to the past competitions is that there's actually a possibility that the winning result will actually get included.
<nephele[m]>
Yes in a somewhat unrelated thread, I think we should have a thread just about competitions
<AlwaysLivid>
nephele[m], if I try to be creative by coming up with that mosaic, I'm pretty sure it will get shot down because people do not like change.
<AlwaysLivid>
Or that some people will just vote for the first 10 logos that will pop up and will not take the time to look through every single logo and variation of it.
<nephele[m]>
I might make a thread on the ML, but i'd rather you do that since I have the impression that you are a bit better at conveying what is wrong with competitions :)
<AlwaysLivid>
I would *very much* not suggest that we do this exact same thing all over again for the next release, and I would urge you to read my remarks as to why competitions really turn out to be harmful both for the output and the final work included AND for the contestants themselves. kallisti5
<nephele[m]>
stuff on irc gets lost anyway
<AlwaysLivid>
which is why I'm mentioning
<nephele[m]>
Doesn't change the nature of irc much, and if it isnt on the ML there is only one person who read it .-.
<AlwaysLivid>
A participant of the Google Code-In 2019 competition that I will not name had to drop out of high school as a result of the crunch that they experienced and another person that I specifically tried to convince to participate pretty much quit programming because they think that they are bad at it now and I feel guilty over this now, I'm pretty sure that every single member of the community ought to take what I'm saying a bit more seriously
<AlwaysLivid>
instead of me reiterating the same arguments over and over again in every single medium.
<AlwaysLivid>
I'll definitely try to bring that up later.
<nephele[m]>
While that is certainly true, irc is non-persistant, and it's early morning on a saturday...
<AlwaysLivid>
Don't worry about it.
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<nephele[m]>
I wouldn't be able to read this on the xmpp side at all in half an hour if other people talked between it, and matrix is also not that great with the backlog UI of their clients
<AlwaysLivid>
Don't worry about it ;D
<AlwaysLivid>
But yeah, mentioning people allows you to go back to the message you were mentioned easily as far as e.g. Element is concerned.
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<nephele[m]>
You couldn't find a chair strong enough to tie me down with the intent to make me use element
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/Jnhya
<Cacafuego>
Is anyone here using the vncserver? Trying to finally work out one problem (if possible). I can connect fine and even send keyboard events, but mouse input seems to do nothing. Have tried different VNC clients and what few options I can see (server and client side) to try, but no change
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<Cacafuego>
Also hi Begasus
<Begasus>
hi Cacafuego , long time since I used VNCServer
<Cacafuego>
Did mouse work for you as far as you remember?
<Cacafuego>
I have the inputserver running too
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<Begasus>
k, rebooting the other one to R1B3 RC ;)
<Begasus>
back in the days it did work (but that was still with BeOS)
<Cacafuego>
Ok, so quite a while ago then =)
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<Begasus>
Around 20 years ;)
<Begasus>
so far so good
<Cacafuego>
Just curious, do you run Haiku natively or in a VM of some kind?
<Cacafuego>
Typically
<Begasus>
Mostly through VBox
<Cacafuego>
Gotcha. Mine is remote and just trying to find a better way to connect
<Begasus>
Trying to setup another laptop to run it natively (but it's using EFI, not familiar there yet) :)
<extrowerk>
native (x2) here
<Begasus>
hmm ... after the update when trying to run haikuporter I get "list index out of range"?
<Begasus>
anyone had the same problem?
<js>
<TwinkyDick69[m] "js AlwaysLivid Can any of you "> It is?
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<nephele[m]>
No
<nephele[m]>
(as in, it is already public)
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<Forza>
kallisti5: Hi :) I got the ipfs gateway going. Though when browsing the /ipns it is very slow while /ipfs/Qm... is fast. Do you know why?
<Begasus>
not getting anything done here if I can't fire up haikuporter :/
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<Forza>
I've tested the Beta3 in vbox and no isses found so far
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<Begasus>
seems that buildbot is suffering some issues also, haikuwebkit also failed to build
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<roiredX>
good day
<nephele[m]>
hi roiredX
<roiredX>
hi there nephele[m]
<roiredX>
I just reinstalled Haiku on the testing external drive from the actual install... anytime I try to boot from that disk now end up in KDL app_server crash
<roiredX>
KDL says something regarding the internal disk, not the one it's trying to boot of from
<nephele[m]>
KDL or app_server crash?
<roiredX>
mmm....
<roiredX>
let me check again
<roiredX>
brb
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<roiredX>
0back
<roiredX>
app_server crash
<Begasus>
hi roiredX
<roiredX>
hi there Begasus
<roiredX>
trying to set up things for next week's testing :)
<Begasus>
nice, I hear if something pops up or needs changing ;)
<roiredX>
reboot, brb
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<roiredX>
0back
<roiredX>
well... I read through the Lazarus doc
<roiredX>
and I've might have done things wrong
<roiredX>
though looks like there are some bugs in the Haiku port
<Begasus>
wip then ;)
<roiredX>
XD yep
<roiredX>
bye all
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<Begasus>
hi Diver
<Begasus>
just checked "modprobe befs" but it doesn't show anything?
<Begasus>
if I check the partition with gparted it shows "unknown" partition type
<countryboy>
with the name beosfs you can format with np ...
<countryboy>
with the name befs you format the be : the existence xD
<countryboy>
with the name beosfs you format the beos ...
<Begasus_32>
I'm guessing something went wrong with the initial install, it's befs but I can't seem to mount it (on the other laptop without EFI I can mount the Haiku partition)
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<Begasus>
lets see if re-populating the repository for haikuports fixes haikuporter ...
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<Begasus>
nope :/
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<countryboy>
np
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<countryboy>
or you can resize + new partition in fat32 + mount it under linux + reboot + mount it under beos ...
<countryboy>
an exchange partition ...
<countryboy>
to keep attributes : unse the zip of beos ...
<countryboy>
but linux no :/
<countryboy>
... use ...
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<Anarchos>
how to use kdl to see adress and content of a variable ?
<Begasus>
heading out, bbl
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<B2IA>
(countryboy) hello from beshare@haiku
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<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuporter] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JnjNF
<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuporter] kallisti5 036273b - buildmaster: Add a 'do list of packages' file
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, I'll try to get another look at the PC with "no boot" later today
<Vidrep_64>
It's an Acer Aspire. EFI only, no serial port
<Vidrep_64>
The best I'll be able to do is a debug boot, unless I can get my build setup working properly
<Vidrep_64>
Also, CDDB_lookup still doesn't work. Are there other apps which need to be updated with the new CDDB server (libcddb, libcdio, etc)?
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<roiredX>
brb
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<roiredX>
0back
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<G_>
Is anyone here using original BeOS?
<Forza>
G_: Perhaps someone has the original hardware?
<Forza>
Hm. ipns://hpkg.haiku-os.org Says only 68GB today. The other day it was 112-125GB. kallisti5, did you delete stuff?
<G_>
I found 5.0 x86 version on thepiratebay
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<AlwaysLivid>
(... Is that something I'm supposed to condemn as a moderator now, or something?)
<Forza>
AlwaysLivid: I dont think so. He only stated he found it there so far :)
<AlwaysLivid>
Yeah, my main concern, however, is the fact that tracker is basically horrible quality-wise. I would definitely recommend other considerably better options. /joke
<AlwaysLivid>
Fun fact: The National Technical University of Athens in Athens, Greece is still mirroring BeOS and its repositories: http://ftp.ntua.gr/mirror/BeOS/
<Forza>
Good to preserve data :)
<Forza>
I am still trying to get my head around IPFS. Just seems so unintuitive to me
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<Forza>
I pin the haiku repository but it seems to only download half of everything. But perhaps it's due to deduplication?
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* Forza
is thinking of giving up on IPFS. Seems implementations aren't all that great and has a lot of overhead in simply maintaining a running local node
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<Forza>
Anyone knows if haikudepot will implement ipfs:// and ipns:// directly?
<nephele[m]>
If anything would, it would be the network kit forza
<nephele[m]>
i dont know of any path for that currently
<Forza>
No it seems unlikely
<Forza>
I've seen a go and nodejs implementation only
<nephele[m]>
It will happen when someone does it
<Forza>
I guess using mirrors is best option for now. I'm running a mirror but I think the running cost of the ipfs-go server is rather high. Likely higher than all combined downloads on the normal http mirror
<nephele[m]>
nothing is preventing writing a ipfs client in c++ for our use
<Forza>
Not technically
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<Forza>
Which in turn would download from any node in the DHT network that has the matching file
<Forza>
Would ipfs solve the file integrity problems as everything is sha256 hashed?
<Forza>
If we could get the hash as metadata in HaikuDepot it would be trivial to verify the source, or maybe you do already?
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<Begasus>
heading down here, hopefully some good news by tomorrow :)
<Begasus>
g'night peeps!
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<janSwedneck[m]>
just to be sure, have you all seen the rust IPFS implementation?
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<Forza>
janSwedneck[m]: I saw it when searching for docs. Looked liked it wasn't fully implemented yet
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<PulkoMandy>
personally I think GNUtella would make our lives easier than IPFS. The idea is to have a protocol to discover where parts of files are available, and then the downloads are done simply using http
<PulkoMandy>
but it is not one of the new, shiny and trending protocols now
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<janSwedneck[m]>
<PulkoMandy "personally I think GNUtella woul"> that's what ipfs does though
<janSwedneck[m]>
or do you mean that fetching the data from peers is done via http?
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<Forza>
From what I'm seeing the problem is easy discovery of where you find files. It's really slow and would not provide nice user experience
<Forza>
Once you have a direct connection it's fine, but the initial thing is slow
<Forza>
On ipfs you can provide gateway mirrors but I don't see what advantages those provide over ordinary mirrors
<jadedctrl>
isn't the idea that they'll pass on and cache requested data from any other nodes, instead of having to store everything?
<Forza>
Well both
<Forza>
They cache the data that is routed. They can also hold a local repository
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<Forza>
But routing data takes double bandwidth as it has to be downloaded in return. Plus an office mirror needs to cache all data anyway to fulfil its purpose
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<janSwedneck[m]>
<Forza "On ipfs you can provide gateway "> well they don't themselves provide a benefit, the benefit is that anyone can mirror any part of the data trivially as long as they have an ipfs node
<Forza>
Yes potentially increasing the availability by multiple copies
<janSwedneck[m]>
and if the package manager uses ipfs, then everyone can act as a partial mirror automatically, and CDN functionality is built into that mirroring
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
jan Swedneck: I think I remember you from a while ago
<janSwedneck[m]>
especially useful if you have multiple computers on the same network, if one of them already has a package cached it can provide it to the other computers on the network
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
Redstar os or hardbassandcommunistchicks ring a bell?
<nephele[m]>
sounds like a really bad idea
<janSwedneck[m]>
<TwinkyDick69[m] "Redstar os or hardbassandcommuni"> nope
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
I wonder if theres a way to use FDE in Haiku
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
> > <@printablefreedom:matrix.org> Redstar os or hardbassandcommunistchicks ring a bell?
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
> nope
<TwinkyDick69[m]>
Ah, alright.
<janSwedneck[m]>
<nephele[m] "sounds like a really bad idea"> well, how so?
<nephele[m]>
Laws
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<nephele[m]>
stop using matrix replies if possible btw, they look like garbage on the irc side
<janSwedneck[m]>
oh right this is bridged to IRC, completely forgot
<janSwedneck[m]>
would you care to elaborate on "laws"?
<nephele[m]>
There is abitrary content on arbitrary mirrors, if any of that turns out to be illegal it is mot that pressing to have accidentally downloaded it, but it sure is to distribute it
<nephele[m]>
atleast under german law
<Forza>
janSwedneck: well the resharing seems to use unreasonable resources imho
<Forza>
nephele: you mean risk for the users that might have helped redistribution?
<janSwedneck[m]>
<nephele[m] "There is abitrary content on arb"> well it's not like things are automatically downloaded, it's prudent to not download things you don't know are legal, but i see how it can be problematic
<janSwedneck[m]>
ah crap i replied again
<janSwedneck[m]>
Forza: which kind of resources? it might be something that can be mitigated with config tweaking
<nephele[m]>
forza: yeah, and also i dont see how a user would automatically agree to be a server
<Forza>
janSwedneck[m]: high cpu usage and constant bandwidth due to maintaining the network
<nephele[m]>
not to mention many residential commections only have limited upload bandwidth, seems kind of unreasonable to use that just because
<Forza>
Ipfs uses DHT and that keeps connections to lots of peers. On my Linux box it uses 5-25% constantly of a core
<nephele[m]>
also tethered connections and such exist too, currently it is very predictable when haiku uses the network for the isers
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<Forza>
Isers?
<nephele[m]>
users
<janSwedneck[m]>
Forza: hm, well peer count can be configured, a larger count will trade higher memory usage for lower CPU usage
<Forza>
Yes true
<Forza>
Default seems to be to keep between 600-900 connections
<janSwedneck[m]>
as for network usage, i've asked whether dhtclient mode still allows to provide content to the network, if it does that might be a solution (or at least help)
<Forza>
But too low makes it less likely to be found
<janSwedneck[m]>
it seems the answer is yes, so that's something to try
<nephele[m]>
honestly, if anything allow the daemon/server to be activated as an opt in, and else do nothing
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<janSwedneck[m]>
nephele: yeah that's fair, you can also configure private networks for use cases like a home network cache
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