ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<AlienSoldier> about this:
<AlienSoldier> "To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in using Sign in with Google or other more secure technologies, like OAuth 2.0"
<AlienSoldier> is web+ still ok for Gmail, and wil BMail be made ready?
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<AlienSoldier> The falling date is May 30 (at least for me)
<kallisti5[m]> AlienSoldier: oof. That's a bit weird
<kallisti5[m]> where did you see that message?
<kallisti5[m]> AlienSoldier: ok. impacts. Web+ will be fine. BMail will not
<kallisti5[m]> "Set outgoing server (SMTP) 'Authentication Method' to 'Oauth2'"
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<kallisti5[m]> That's annoying. So google is requiring a BMail SMTP -> Web+ gmail.com -> SMTP dance to auth to gmail going forward over smtp
<AlienSoldier> kallisti5[m] that was a message sent to me by google
<kallisti5[m]> so.. pretty much for BMail to continue to function with gmail, we'll need Outgoing -> SMTP -> Login type -> OAuth2
<kallisti5[m]> i'll open a ticket if one doesn't already exist
<AlienSoldier> or other more secure technologies (whatever that mean)
<AlienSoldier> i guess as secure as Oauth 2.0 and that Google decide to support
<kallisti5[m]> Looks like PulkoMandy opened the ticket already
<kallisti5[m]> Technically OAuth2 really isn't "more secure"
<kallisti5[m]> it's just harder for spam bots to use since there's a browser interaction
<AlienSoldier> I don't get why they don't keep the insecure option feature like i have it set. perhpas the russian conflict have something to do with htis
<AlienSoldier> *this
<AlienSoldier> I don't get that much spam, perhaps one message every month at most.
<AlienSoldier> If bowsers are still usable i flip a little less, but it is still anoying (i really like having an always running mail daemon)
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<kallisti5[m]> ugh. it's all base64 encoded. We really should have merged my crypto kit lol
<kallisti5[m]> PulkoMandy: waddlesplash any -1's on me fixing up the cryptokit thing I made and working to get it merged?
<kallisti5[m]> I could add base64 to the hashing apu
<kallisti5[m]> *api
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<waddlesplash> micken: on intel video cards, yes. on amd video cards, maybe. on nvidia, occasionally
<waddlesplash> it's via BIOS livepatching
<andreasdr[m]> My Radeon 480 does not have screen resolutions to choose in Preferences.
<andreasdr[m]> :(
<andreasdr[m]> Which would be very cool btw.
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<kallisti5[m]> andreasdr: weird.. did you try fallback video from the boot menu?
<kallisti5[m]> Cards after Radeon HD 79xx are kinda hit and miss with the driver. some work great, some don't
<kallisti5[m]> ideally someday waddlesplash will port DRM / DRI :-)
<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: maybe not if x512[m]'s acceleration system gains traction
<waddlesplash> so, it would be good for you to fix post-79xx :-p
<waddlesplash> but Vega doesn't work even, I think, yeah?
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<andreasdr[m]> kallisti5: Yes. Without fallback driver it wont work at all.
<andreasdr[m]> Yes. Still looking forward to x512 efforts, also spent some money. He also told he will look into radeon_hd driver for issues later. I just trust you guys.
<andreasdr[m]> I also think x512 idea to solve 3d is best.
<andreasdr[m]> Its progressive, it needs less work and it already works.
<andreasdr[m]> I would not wonder if other OS drop "old" drm.
<andreasdr[m]> soon
<andreasdr[m]> ...also drop...
<andreasdr[m]> Oh. For old cards you would maybe not drop "old" drm. Sure. Damn.
<andreasdr[m]> Stupid legacy.
<andreasdr[m]> Now testing "profile" app. Super curious.
<AlienSoldier> profile app?
<andreasdr[m]> there is a CLI profile app in Haiku.
<andreasdr[m]> Give me 5 mins and I know more.
<andreasdr[m]> Sometimes I use uProf from AMD.
<andreasdr[m]> It really helps often to find bottlenecks.
<andreasdr[m]> Also for Haiku u could find bottlenecks if compiling or something ...
<andreasdr[m]> Whatever you like to profile.
<AlienSoldier> trying it it ended with a crash
<jessicah> SerenityOS seems to have pretty decent profiling stuff
<jessicah> a lot of neat little things in that project
<jessicah> every now and then, I'm like "dang, wish had that in Haiku", haha
<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
<andreasdr[m]> SerenityOS has a good profile app.
<andreasdr[m]> That would be amazing to have, but a CLI app that does similar stuff would be OK for me too for the beginning
* andreasdr[m] uploaded an image: Ladies and gentlements. For a first look this looks nice. (148KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QvNcAuXLrcMpcCQZhKcNaIIC >
<jessicah> oh we have a command line app? huh
<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
<andreasdr[m]> And it looks very promising.
<andreasdr[m]> If someone has time it would be great to add a UI. Oh I wish I had more time.
<waddlesplash> andreasdr[m]: it can output Callgrind format
<waddlesplash> use callgrind mode and then KCachegrind from HaikuDepot for a GUI
<andreasdr[m]> Yes. I saw this in options.
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<waddlesplash> jessicah: anything else neat from Serenity, open a ticket :)
<waddlesplash> btw, some people forget but we also have a "full system profiler"
<waddlesplash> scheduling_recorder + debuganalyzer
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<andreasdr[m]> Actually I would stick to profile CLI app. But it would be nice to be able to start and end profiling when desired. Not the whole application run.
<waddlesplash> analyzes all thread scheduling operations and allows you to find where bottlenecks are
<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
<andreasdr[m]> I saw this too, nice.
<waddlesplash> also in the category of "useful things": strace -T <pid>, attaches strace to an already running process
<andreasdr[m]> strace was syscall trace, right?
<waddlesplash> yes
<andreasdr[m]> Oh, attach it later, this would be also useful for profiler.
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<andreasdr[m]> Cant wait until I have correct 2.5k resolution and can try to get stuff done. Meanwhile I come by and check your progress :) Rock on.
<andreasdr[m]> 3d for AMD by x512 would be nice. :)
<andreasdr[m]> Also.
<andreasdr[m]> Also I noticed that you have lots of ARM progress recently :)
<andreasdr[m]> Wonder If aarch64 port would attract people to try Haiku-OS.
<andreasdr[m]> Guess so, as ARM hardware is more of tinker like hardware for me.
<andreasdr[m]> So people like to try stuff with their RPIs :)
<jessicah> waddlesplash: wait, can track threading in an app?
<jessicah> I thought I had asked in the past about tracing for pthreads, maybe that's different
<waddlesplash> jessicah: this is for kernel context swtiches
<waddlesplash> it basically tracks all scheduler operations, allows you to see what threads spend time waiting on across the whole system
<andreasdr[m]> strace does also work. thats cool.
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<andreasdr[m]> BTW: After wpa_supplicant was updated I wasnt able to use my WIFI dongle anymore. Has this been fixed or was I just doing stuff wrong?
<andreasdr[m]> Also I noticed that net IO is slower than Windows net IO. I know HaikuOS kernel is young and also my WWW connection could be the reason. So someone could investigate. Having a profiler is a good start. As I said having much time could help, but also I am not a kernel hacker :)
<andreasdr[m]> Just tinkering around and collecting some ideas :)
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<andreasdr[m]> Is there any news on Falkon crashes?
<andreasdr[m]> Sorry I am talkative today :)
<waddlesplash> nobody has yet looked into Falkon
<waddlesplash> wpa_supplicant update shouldn't have broken wifi. if it did for you please open a ticket on Trac
<andreasdr[m]> Sorry, will check again on next session.
<waddlesplash> WiFi network IO is slower because we don't support 802.11ac yet. Ethernet should be the same speed.
<waddlesplash> TCP is overall slower over longer latency connections because we don't have very efficient window scaling.
<waddlesplash> Over LAN it should be about the same as other OSes
<andreasdr[m]> Hmm. If I download a FreeBSD DVD image I get speed of 500kb per second. If I do this via Windows/FreeBSD/Windows I get 15MB per second or something.
<andreasdr[m]> 800kb/sec
<andreasdr[m]> Maybe some driver issue.
<waddlesplash> do you download via Ethernet or WiFi?
<andreasdr[m]> NetPositive
<andreasdr[m]> Ethernet
<andreasdr[m]> I have 300MBIT WWW
<waddlesplash> yes, this'll be the TCP window scaling problem then
<waddlesplash> it's pretty annoying indeed, but needs some careful analysis before fixing
<andreasdr[m]> Oh. Ok. If you are aware of this, then I think all is ok.
<andreasdr[m]> Cool.
<waddlesplash> there's a ticket somewhere
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<waddlesplash> I'm not aware of wpa_supplicant breaking connections however
<andreasdr[m]> Ok forget this, Ill check again.
<waddlesplash> I tested it myself and it did fine
<waddlesplash> but that was with one network and one device
<andreasdr[m]> Let me check right now.
<andreasdr[m]> WLAN
<andreasdr[m]> Thank you. Dont want to be offensive, just telling my thoughts.
<waddlesplash> no, you're fine :)
<andreasdr[m]> :)
<andreasdr[m]> I am a big fan Sir. :)
<x512[m]> andreasdr: I got Radeon RX 550 that is the same series as RX 480 so it may be supported by RadeonGfx soon.
<x512[m]> Modesetting things are quite complicated, I have not fully understand how it works for now.
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<Skipp_OSX> I have an RX 580 here :)
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<andreasdr[m]> x512: Nice, cant wait. But I try.
<andreasdr[m]> The whole OS stuff is complicated I guess.
<andreasdr[m]> Can someone somehow help you?
<andreasdr[m]> I had again the crash. Should do a ticket.
<andreasdr[m]> This time I was sane enough to do "bt"
<waddlesplash> reproducible?
<andreasdr[m]> I had it the second time. Actually from a user point of view, I was just watching YT videos via QMPlay2 and using Quaternion. No concrete idea yet.
<andreasdr[m]> I can try to be aware next time, what I was doing.
<rennj> crash crash
<rennj> see this is what happens when you do large programs in c++
<rennj> all that oop
<rennj> hehe
<rennj> what got us here! where are we going!
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<rennj> uptime on beos on baremetal was never extraordinary
<andreasdr[m]> I have good memory using BeOS. I used it until 2004 I guess.
<andreasdr[m]> BeOS was famous for having OS features regarding crashes that was advanced over MacOSX < 9 at least an Windows 95
<andreasdr[m]> and
<andreasdr[m]> MacOS < 9
<andreasdr[m]> Sorry
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<rennj> https://imgur.com/n48vMDv i dont know what you mean
<andreasdr[m]> <3
<rennj> vlc!
<rennj> smp box
<rennj> thats 2 cores!
<rennj> athlon mp
<rennj> dump that foolishness
<rennj> solaris 10 2005 with zfs
<andreasdr[m]> 2005 ZFS? Nice. Now ZFS landed in FreeBSD and NetBSD e.g., like 15 years later. Crazy.
<CompanionCube> iirc freebsd got it ~2007
<CompanionCube> though the present version actually originates in linux
<andreasdr[m]> Yes. But first time I could use ZFS via Installer was with 13 Release. And they integrated it very well. Never heard about it before.
<andreasdr[m]> My engine compiles using FBSD in 30 seconds. No other OS is that capable.
<andreasdr[m]> Linux takes 45s
<andreasdr[m]> NetBSD 1m10s
<andreasdr[m]> Windows 2mins+
<andreasdr[m]> Haiku 1m50s
<andreasdr[m]> Something like that.
* CompanionCube could make a joke here involving a hobby OS
<andreasdr[m]> Tell us.
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<rennj> https://imgur.com/WecJVQN comic sans and raid0 stripe usb dongles
<andreasdr[m]> Haiku kernel is young. Once its more complete it can mature. I see no problem here to be honest.
<rennj> 2004 end of my beos days
<rennj> least on baremetal
<andreasdr[m]> <3
<rennj> i got beos vm, haiku vm
<andreasdr[m]> I spent so many hours using BeOS. I am with you.
<CompanionCube> the joke is about https://sortix.org/trianglix/
<CompanionCube> hobby os, with an ...interesting... desktop environment as an april fools joke
<andreasdr[m]> Honestly I dont get it. Why is it funny? You need to start somewhere?
<CompanionCube> well you said 'no othr os' and i was curious
<andreasdr[m]> Hm.
<andreasdr[m]> I dont think this OS can compile my code faster. :D
<CompanionCube> probably not
<andreasdr[m]> Lots of broken links
<andreasdr[m]> "Copyright(C) Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen sortie@maxsi.org and contributors 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014."
<andreasdr[m]> Maybe it was abandoned.
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<HaikuUser> Hello, how to set timeout and retry for pkgman install?
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<CompanionCube> andreasdr[m]: that's the april fools page remember
<andreasdr[m]> Ok. But its sad.
<CompanionCube> main os is not abandoned
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<rennj> perhaps distcc/ccache compiler faster, do it now!
<andreasdr[m]> I heard of it.
<rennj> sing the doom song gir!
<andreasdr[m]> But 2mins and < 2 mins is ok
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<jessicah> HaikuUser: I use until
<jessicah> something like: until pkgman update -y ; do echo "Retrying..." ; done
<jessicah> you could add a sleep instead of an echo if you want
<HaikuUser> Thanks. But that's what I want to say. "pkgman install -y" will keep infinitely, if the net status is stuck.
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
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<johnny_b> morning
<Begasus> 'lo johnny_b
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<jessicah> morning Begasus, johnny_b
<Begasus> g'evening jessicah :)
<Not-85dd> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/83068f23fed5...7e6db84fe1ea
<Not-85dd> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 7e6db84 - ant_core, revbump for rebuild (#6685)
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<Not-85dd> [haiku/infrastructure] nielx pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±5] https://github.com/haiku/infrastructure/compare/802135deefe1...7e8e101db178
<Not-85dd> [haiku/infrastructure] nielx 7e8e101 - i18n.haiku-os.org: various improvements
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<Begasus> a bit long review on the fluidlite PR, but I think they are valid :)
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<HaikuUser> hi i'm trying haiku for the first time on my thinkpad
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<Begasus> Short visite ... :)
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<Begasus> bib
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<nekobot2> [haiku/haiku] d497bf51a628 - kernel/wait_for_objects: Fix copy/paste error in poll().
<nekobot2> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev55926] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=d497bf51a628+%5Ef666c0873ed9
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<mmu_man> how to waste the day because projects can't agree on what is an admin https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=616718
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<nephele> mmu_man: funky
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<mmu_man> well, same same, but different
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<nephele> Having to configure printers in linux is always hard :/
<nephele> If you publish a USB printer to the network in linux it will discover it as a network printer, and you can't remove that. I wonder if this was ever tested
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<phschafft> hm?
<nephele> I'm talking about ubuntu LTS with normal desktop and stuff
<nephele> Though, iirc i also had to install gutenprint drivers because.... they just didn't ship them for some reason
<nephele> So i suppose a default install wouldn't even have been able to publish that specific printer
<nephele> How does one worl around "waiting for build packages to be activated"?
<phschafft> hm, I just never had those problems. but I'm also on debian.
<phschafft> just confuses me a bit. in no way wanting to tell that the problem is on your end. maybe I was just lucky so far.
<augiedoggie> i usually just rm -rf the work directory and start the build again
<nephele> phschafft: that you get printers twice if you publish them from the same device? It is a bit of a nieche usecase, but i still expect it to work properly if the option is exposed in the UI
<phschafft> you mean the same cups instance that publuishes them also discovers it's own publication?
<nephele> Dunno if its cups or gnome discovering it
<nephele> But if i add the printer in gnome, then publish via cups, i now have it twice in gnome, and it is impossible with the gnome UI to delete network printers
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<phschafft> hm.
<phschafft> this is indeed strange.
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<extrowerk> this can be interesting for us: https://github.com/libsdl-org/sdl12-compat
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<nephele> extrowerk: for what?
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<jessicah> ablyss[haiku]: haha, nice :p
<jessicah> I don't think I've ever done better than 24
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<andreasdr[m]> Hi
<andreasdr[m]> Since the wpa_supplicant update no more WLAN networks show up.
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* andreasdr[m] uploaded an image: quaternion.BhvaBC (225KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xImPxGPwGqjmOaNrKfqsxMue >
<andreasdr[m]> I am on Haiku 55923
<andreasdr[m]> Sorry
<andreasdr[m]> now they show up
<andreasdr[m]> Took like 7 mins
<andreasdr[m]> Strange
<andreasdr[m]> Did not see this before
<andreasdr[m]> Hm. Cant connect. Something is broken, either the driver now or wpa_supplicant. It was working perfectly the first time I tried.
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<andreasdr[m]> :x