<Begasus>
extrowerk, does wine work on R1B3 too (I think PulkoMandy already mentioned it), if not maybe mention this on the post in the forum?
<extrowerk>
Ah, it definetely won't work on b3
<Begasus>
I think it needed kernel patching, don't think that will be applied on the beta? ;)
<extrowerk>
did it.
<Begasus>
Thanks :)
<extrowerk>
i mean i have added a comment about the compatibility.
<skirst>
wow haiku runs really nice in qemu/kvm. had no idea. audios oracle and vmware!
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<Begasus>
nice skirst :)
<nephele>
hi begasus
<skirst>
only vm config i have used it in and get good audio latency
<Begasus>
hi nephele :)
<skirst>
well, good as in no xruns or dropouts
<nephele>
not many haiku devs test virtualbox or vmware indeed
<Begasus>
Haiku still runs fine here in virtualbox :)
* nephele
still wants to improve hyperv support
<skirst>
the libvirt stuff has come a long way since i've last used it
<jmairboeck>
nephele: last time I tested, it worked quite well in Hyper-V. The legacy network card has to be used though, and changing the screen resolution doesn't work (using VESA).
<nephele>
Yes, because we don't have hyper-v specific drivers
<nephele>
(bassically vmbus, which is a shared memory command ring buffer iirc, and then some drivers ontop of this)
<jmairboeck>
and hyper-v doesn't emulate any audio hardware on its own. Audio only works when using an "extended session" which is actually just RDP.
<jmairboeck>
So for audio support, we would need an RDP server
<nephele>
Interesting, I did not know about that
<nephele>
Can you make a ticket for that?
<jmairboeck>
but the "extended session" doesn't even work with a Windows 7 guest, I think it supports only Windows 8.1 or higher officially. I don't know about Linux.
<skirst>
i think the only thing hyper-v has going for it is the linux embracement. i've never had a good experience with it outside that
<nephele>
Microsoft pays people to improve the hyperv support in linux, they wont pay us :p
<nephele>
but it is the defacto vm on windows now, so we should run nicely in there if possible
<skirst>
agreed, but i digress, hyper-v sucks :D
<nephele>
Eh, I don't see why
<nephele>
It has docs, we can support it, much like other vms.
<nephele>
also, its not by oracle, so it has that going for it :p
<skirst>
truth!
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<skirst>
i'm just burnt out on ms anything anymore. windows 10 being the last stab in the back. getting laptop shamed every time i install updates. not good enough for 11!
<extrowerk>
skirst: :)
<skirst>
take 11 and cram it up yer nethers!
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<nephele>
skirst: well, someone stuck on windows and trying haiku in a vm should get a good impression ideally ;)
<nephele>
that is my main motivation
<skirst>
that's the part i agree with! that's indeed a good thing
<nephele>
users are hardly convinced by "you should have read the documentation and use <vm software> instead!"
<skirst>
hyper-v gave me nothing but grief though, outside of WSL
<skirst>
WSL works as advertised basically, and rather well, kudos. rather use the real thing :)
<skirst>
that and "most" windows users won't have hyper-v installed anyways. never understood why ms didn't just include it with every flavor of windows
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<nephele>
gnome boxes is wierd, it uses qemu but somehow everything breaks in it
<skirst>
i'm have a good time with virt-manager
<skirst>
i use a plasma/kde desktop
<skirst>
manjaro-testing
<skirst>
i'm actually able to test my synth on haiku without booting up on metal so i'm happy :)
<skirst>
qemu/kvm user session. virtio on the disks works fine, not on network though. still have to use e1000
<PulkoMandy>
extrowerk: I would keep the libs in $gccLibDir and have symlinks in $libDir, I think you did the opposite?
<PulkoMandy>
the reasoning for this is we can them put the symlinks in a separate package, in that case you can easily have multiple versions of gcc (each with its own gccLibDir) and "activate" one by putting the symlinks in libDir. Not sure if there is any use for that but I'd say it's a bit cleaner?
<PulkoMandy>
is there a reason to do it the other way?
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<julicenri>
nephele: Isn't the last free and standalone Hyper-V Server (2019) going to reach EOL in a couple years?
<nephele>
dunno, I wouldn't use it apart from onboarding people on windows that already are on hyperv
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<extrowerk>
PulkoMandy: the libs in the libdir and the ones in the gcclibdir are in separate package right now. gcclibdir is in the main gcc package, while the libdir ones are in the syslib package.
<extrowerk>
So Your idea could work. Let me change ithe recipe then.
<Begasus>
extrowerk, maybe an idea to rename the gettext recipe to gettext21?
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<PulkoMandy>
extrowerk: ok, that makes sense, so gcc_syslibs has them always installed in libdir, and you get symlinks in gcclibdir if you install the gcc package. In that case, what you did is better
<andreasdr[m]>
good morning
<andreasdr[m]>
thought I could try WINE by installing via pkgman, seems not yet be enabled :/
<Begasus>
andreasdr[m], 64bit?
<andreasdr[m]>
Nice
<Begasus>
should be fine (atleast on buildmaster it finished ok)
<andreasdr[m]>
Building it myself now :)
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh. Tried to install it via pkgman, but pkgman search wine showed not wine package
<extrowerk>
PulkoMandy: i jus tchanged everything as you requested :(
<Begasus>
pkgman install wine (on 64bit nightly works here (after updating the system))
<extrowerk>
interestingly wine was still working yesterday here on my machine, but not anymore.
<andreasdr[m]>
Do I need to install this? Or is there another tricky thing involved?
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh I get "build-requires "devel:libfreetype" of package "wine-7.1" could not be resolved"
<andreasdr[m]>
--get-dependencies
<andreasdr[m]>
Does help
<andreasdr[m]>
Sorry for the noise.
<extrowerk>
PulkoMandy: i don't see any way to install more than one gcc package parallel without reworking the current recipe. This can be a major rework.
<extrowerk>
PulkoMandy: this is the main gcc package: http://0x0.st/oZ2W.png as you can see, partially it places its files in a versioned folder, but the binaries goes directly into the bindirs. They would collide with other versions.
<x512[m]>
Binaries location can be fixed. Separate package with symlinks can be introduced to make specific GCC version default. But I prefer to move to Clang.
<extrowerk>
i am not sure how to solve this, as i am not sure what are the consequences moving or renaming those files.
<PulkoMandy>
no one really needs multiple gcc versions anyway, it was just trying to prepare things if we can
<PulkoMandy>
and I forgot that the libs in libdir would be packaged separately in gcc_syslibs
<PulkoMandy>
so your initial patch is correct: libraries in gcc_syslibs, symlinks in gcc package, and gcc should depend on gcc_syslibs
<extrowerk>
Ok, i'll do it like that then.
<andreasdr[m]>
I must agree a bit. Clang is faster and produces slightly faster code. Thats my observations at least. Also it seems to be more modern
<andreasdr[m]>
Its the default for MacOSX and FreeBSD AFAIK.
<andreasdr[m]>
:x
<PulkoMandy>
as far as I know, last time we tried to build haiku with clang, it was not booting or there were other crashes, and no one has investigated those yet
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh I see. A question of educated man power.
<andreasdr[m]>
From my perspective I like HaikuPort/er things. For me it works better than I ever would have expected.
<andreasdr[m]>
Coooooool.
<andreasdr[m]>
:x
<Begasus>
nice to hear andreasdr[m] :)
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<andreasdr[m]>
:)
<andreasdr[m]>
How to install the generated pkg now? Copied it to /boo/system/packages but cant launch wine
<andreasdr[m]>
Oh it works
<andreasdr[m]>
The executable is called Win64
<andreasdr[m]>
Wine64
<extrowerk>
andreasdr[m]: keep in mind, only win54 programs are supported, eg. NO 32 bit support at all.
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. I know.
<andreasdr[m]>
Just trying 7-zip
<extrowerk>
if it asks to install mono you can press cancel.
<extrowerk>
it was still working on my machine yesterday, but today not anymore. have to say i have updated my own build with the one from HP i nthe meantime. maybe something wrong with the build from HP?
<andreasdr[m]>
Is there any trick to launch a windows exectable with wine64 program.exe
<andreasdr[m]>
?
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<andreasdr[m]>
Oh it launched explorer.exe lol. Now I can put stuff into my .wine/drive_c cool, 7zip does not launch: Internal Error
<andreasdr[m]>
Hmm. Internal error.
<nephele>
Anything that required 32bit libs anywhere will not work
<nephele>
es*
<x512[m]>
Not that most Windows installers are 32 bit so extracting may be needed.
<x512[m]>
Not -> Note
<andreasdr[m]>
Duuuuuuuudes. Notepad++. How cool is that.
<andreasdr[m]>
I see.
<andreasdr[m]>
Thank you x512
<andreasdr[m]>
For the hint.
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<extrowerk>
there is a qt remake of notepad++
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<andreasdr[m]>
Can be ported natively soon I guess, I saw that wxwidgets is beeing ported to Haiku.
<phschafft>
andreasdr[m]: thank you for the screenshot.
<andreasdr[m]>
Did someone tried NetFlix, VLC or Amazon Apps?
<andreasdr[m]>
No worries.
<andreasdr[m]>
Let me try vlc
<extrowerk>
there is vlc port for haiku already.
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. I know. Just playing around. Actually I am not a wine fan, but I like to explore Wine on Haiku a bit.
<phschafft>
had been pushed back to Haiku recently. more the kind of person looking at it every ten years. but I feel like it really improves and proves itself worth being listed along the 'big boys'.
<andreasdr[m]>
Thats for sure.
<phschafft>
maybe for my next desktop system.
<phschafft>
:)
<andreasdr[m]>
NotePadNext does not start :(
<x512[m]>
NotePadNext seems Qt based. Maybe it can be compiled with native Haiku Qt port.
<pch>
i forgot to add this place back to my autojoin after yet another reinstall of everything on my linux pc
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<pch>
question though, I have an SB audigy 2 here that I've just installed into an early x86_64 pc
<pch>
do you think I could use the wavetable synth built-in to the audigy in haiku?
<extrowerk>
x512[m]: yep, it can be compiled on Haiku with Qt gui, it works.
<PulkoMandy>
pch: probably yes, if you have a driver or application to control it?
<pch>
wondering if there's a driver in haiku for the audigy, I don't know of any off the top of my head
<pch>
but it can be interfaced with adlib-over-pci
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<PulkoMandy>
adlib is not the same thing as wavetable so I'm a bit confused now :)
<pch>
the api
<pch>
might be confusing adlib-over-pci with really early pcimidi
<PulkoMandy>
if it has adlib, this can probably be used with adplug or dosbox (with some minor patches, we have a driver very similar to freebsd to allow userspace apps to directly do i/o on it)
<pch>
either one i inteneded it's through that
<pch>
i specifically want to use it with the haiku midi system
<PulkoMandy>
if it is accessed in MPU-401 style over a serial/midi port, if we have a driver it will just show up in /dev and in PatchBay
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<PulkoMandy>
if we don't have a driver yet, we need to add one, but it shouldn't be so hard I think, you just have to send MIDI data to a memory mapped port?
<PulkoMandy>
if it's something else, I don't know
<pch>
the card definitely has adlib-over-pci but im not sure whether it uses an fm chip or emulates adlib on the wavetable synth
<pch>
and it also definitely has early pcimidi
<pch>
so basically if either of those two things are supported and the card can be used pnp in haiku then it should work
<pch>
note that this was a very, very popular soundcard around when BeOS was still going so I doubt it just outright won't work
<waddlesplash>
we don't have BeOS's original drivers, mind
<waddlesplash>
only whatever people reimplemented
<pch>
ah
<waddlesplash>
it appears our "emuxki" driver supposedly supports the Audigy series devices
<waddlesplash>
whether or not it works anymore is another matter :)
<PulkoMandy>
well we have some that originated from Be sample code I think
<PulkoMandy>
but BeOS wasn't famous for large driver coverage anyways
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<pch>
i forget, does haiku's included partitioner have the ability to resize ntfs safely
<pch>
hoping the answer is no
<pch>
also hoping the answer is yes
<extrowerk>
nope
<pch>
oh well, the bootloader crashes while loading drivers anyways
<pch>
probably related to the presence of the gt220
<pch>
could also be the nforce chipset
<pch>
could also be the audigy2
<extrowerk>
try to remove them one by one.
<pch>
mmm removing the nforce chipset sounds fun
<pch>
oh i forgot to turn off windows mode in the bios
<pch>
turning off windows mode fixed it
<pch>
thanks nforce
<extrowerk>
pch: is this some old legacy hw? I am not even sure when did i heard the name nforce last time. 2005 or so.
<pch>
yep
<pch>
2007 x86_64 pc from acer that ive changed out most of the parts in and strewn about my desk
<pch>
has a new cpu and hdd, different psu, and the audigy 2
<pch>
plus i had to remove 2gb of its ram so it only has 1 now
<extrowerk>
sounds to be a nice hw.
<extrowerk>
sadly desktop machines are way too big and i don't have pleace for them anymore.
<extrowerk>
I'd like to get a well supported minipc for dos, but probably i wouldn't use it that much
<pch>
well... no, the hardware is god-awful, except what i changed out
<pch>
it came with a first-gen pentium n, specifically the lowest-end one ever released
<extrowerk>
:D
<pch>
and the nforce chipset on the mobo is a huuuuuuge pain to deal with
<pch>
causes random bugs
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<extrowerk>
so i am bound to laptops and while mine is pretty old (T440s) , it is still pretty capable with Haiku. I was thinking last week to get some thinkpad with ryzen, but they are terribly expensive still, even as secondhand.
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<extrowerk>
pch: had nforce chip based amd athlon xp based configuration, i know it well. Mine even had compatibility problems with a videocard. It was freezing all the time during 3d operations.
<extrowerk>
i think it came with an ati 9200, i replaced it with an ati 9600 which had those bugs, and at last i replaced it to a 9800xt, which worked perfectly.
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<andreasdr[m]>
Does anyone work if VEGA56 does work with radeon_hd?
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<andreasdr[m]>
I checked hardware database in WIKI. Says yes to modeset. Will know in a few hours.
<julicenri>
Been talking with someone about exFAT and they say that as long as the FS-specific driver code is GPLv2, anyone can implement one using MS docs and patents.
<julicenri>
If this is actually true, then could Haiku benefit?
<nephele>
We use MIT
<julicenri>
Hmm, guess that means a GPL2-licensed Haiku exFAT driver can't be in tree correct?
<julicenri>
Or well, one that was implemented using the official spec and patents.
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<nephele>
How would the spec mandate gpl code..?
<PulkoMandy>
I don't understand why it would be related to GPLv2?
<PulkoMandy>
exFAT is protected by patents, GPLv2 is compatible with patents (so is MIT), GPLv3 isn't
<PulkoMandy>
so you are not allowed, in any case, to do exFAT in GPLv3, the license do not allow it
<PulkoMandy>
if you implement it in GPLv2 or MIT, you still need to see if you need to pay some money to Microsoft for the right to use their patents
<PulkoMandy>
unless you do this as part of the Linux kernel, in that case you are granted an exception because Microsoft is part of the OIN (Open Invention Network) where they allow this special case only for Linux
<PulkoMandy>
we are not Linux, so if we want to implement exFAT write support, with Haiku being an US entity, we have to check for software patents and probably pay something to Microsoft
<PulkoMandy>
if you are not in the US, and patents don't apply where you work, you can write your own exFAT driver and provide it to Haiku users, and no one can say anything about it
<andreasdr[m]>
Wow. Great explaination. Thank you.
<julicenri>
Agreed, quite the insight.
<pch>
okay, so funny thing, the audigy 2's wavetable synth shows up in /dev properly and likely works
<pch>
but I don't have software that makes midi *output* for haiku right now
<pch>
I thought midiplayer could output over that instead of over the haiku midi softsynth but seemingly not?
<PulkoMandy>
you can use PatchBay to reroute its output to wherever you want
<pch>
doesnt seem to be working
<pch>
then again patchbay is just showing me the most vague thing