<nekobot2>
[haiku/haiku] c0ab9f51b249 - intel_extreme: handle generic DTD block found in the VBT
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<nephele>
has anyone written a renote updater for haiku yet?
<nephele>
basically WOL a computer, connect (say via ssh), push updates and shut it down again
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<Cian>
you'd do all of that in scripts rather than write a dedicated app I think. WOL isn't that reliable from my experience
<woffs>
A user question: how to play a video full-screen? I have tried with mpv and pressing F, and it goes fullscreen, but with black borders/rectangles outside the former window border
<nephele>
why are you using mpv?
<nephele>
Cian: Why write a script instead?
<Cian>
nephele because its significantly easier than writing a dedicated app that is extensively going to be calling the CLI ssh to do its work
<nephele>
Why would I call a CLI executable at all?
<Cian>
its significantly, significantly easier than writing a dedicated app with its own SSH implementation
<nephele>
That makes no sense either :p
<Cian>
basically, no matter how you intend to do it, a script using the ssh bin is going to be quicker to write and easier to debug
<Cian>
and not need standalone updating should the standard hashing/crypto in use for ssh on Haiku change in the future as the provided ssh will have that already
<nephele>
I honestly fail to understand why you think OS updating should be done by a script
<Cian>
you are proposing a tool that connects to another PC to run its updates
<nephele>
it beeing easier to debug is definetely not true, sh is a terrible language to write anything in and forcing the cli interface doesn't help either
<Cian>
not an OS updater
<Cian>
the simplest way *by about a thousand percent of effort* to do that would be to connect to it and fire the command locally on the machine
<Cian>
and the simplest way to implement doing that would be an exceptionally small shell script
<Cian>
what way are you considereding architechting that?
<nephele>
That makes no sense, why would I "fire a command"?
<Cian>
because running pkgman on the remote PC is the quickest and simplest way to do the update
<nephele>
Honestly, I wouldn't want /any/ important code in Haiku written in sh, that is just terrible design
<Cian>
what on earth do you have in mind?
<nephele>
Why would I run pkgman on the cli?
<Cian>
why wouldn't you?
<Cian>
you're remoting in to an unattended machine
<nephele>
Why would I?
<Cian>
now you're being beligerant for the sake of it
<Cian>
explain how you'd do it rather than rubbishing an exceptionally simply way of doing it
<nephele>
No, you are proposing a solution that makes no sense to me and refusing to explain it
<Cian>
WOL the target. SSH in to it. "pkgman update" "shutdown"
<Cian>
done
<Cian>
now - your method
<Cian>
no questions until you've explained yours
<nephele>
Which acomplishes exactly nothing of the goals, great.
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<Cian>
it accomplishes absolutely everything you asked for
<nephele>
No
<Cian>
you don't appear to understand what you want, then
<nephele>
It seems you don't understand
<Cian>
what you asked about could be accomplished in minutes. What you want is clearly something entirely different you didn't ask for
<Cian>
now explain it
<nephele>
No, I've already wasted too much time on this, and your conduct simply isn't productive
<Cian>
says the person refusing to accept any basics of how their one line request can be easily and simply done already....
<Cian>
the only persons time being wasted here is mine dealing with someone as beligerantly obstructionist as you
<nephele>
You did not read or not understand my requirements, thats fine, but telling me to "just run this" acomplishing nothing of the goals is simply wasting my time
<Saijin_Naib>
Has anyone investigated if topgrade might be extended to support Haiku?
<Saijin_Naib>
Builds with MUSL/GCC, has remote management capability, and tons of other neat features
<Saijin_Naib>
Just recently discovered it for Alpine Linux and use it to manage system packages, flatpak, python modules, and even git repos I've cloned, FWUPD, etc
<Saijin_Naib>
Phenomenal utility
<Cian>
your requirement was a single line. You never expanded on it despite being asked to repeatedly
<woffs>
nephele: I'm a Haiku newbie but Linux veteran and I know mpv. I'm looking forward even to do this completely different in a Haiku way. :-)
<Cian>
what was there for me to read, other than your single line that clearly didn't actually cover what you want
<nephele>
Cian: I am not interested in debating this further
<Cian>
so you're never going to give the requirements you somehow expect me to already know, despite them not bearing any relation to what you actually asked for, as you rubbished the reply to that?
<Cian>
how do you ever expect to get any answers if that's your attitude?
<nephele>
woffs: we ship MediaPlayer, it might work for you. I don't know if mpv offers something more you need anyhow
<nephele>
Cian: I already wrote above "I am not interested in debating this further"
<woffs>
nephele: thanks, I'll have a look
<Cian>
nephele you never debated it in the first place. That's my point. Throwing the toys out of the pram isn't helpful for anyone
<nephele>
Clearly this is somehow emotionally charged for you, but continuing like this won't acomplish anything for either of us.
<Cian>
people who cannot explain their expectations and get annoyed when given answers to what they actually asked for is the problem here
<Cian>
woffs mpv appears to be using SDL for video output, it is possible that it isn't able to get the correct screen resolution to expand to when resized
<Cian>
other than the included mediaplayer it may be worth trying VLC although I believe it also uses SDL
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<nephele>
SDL2 fullscreen works fine, generally, the mpv port isn't "official" that is intree for mpv and is known to be a bit broken
<Cian>
if there are specific features of mpv you find missing in mediaplayer it may be worth filing an enhancement ticket, after checking to see if there s one already - there are quite a few. https://dev.haiku-os.org/query?status=!closed&component=Applications%2FMediaPlayer
<Cian>
of all the alternative players I suspect VLC gets the most care and attention as its something we've "always" had a port of, albeit two totally different generations of it (pre-1.0 with the native UI and then again with the QT port later)
<woffs>
thank you all, probably I have to read carefully through some more pages of the haiku documentation first
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<andreasdr[m]>
I have btw. run Haiku with TRACEs enabled for AMD VEGA 56/RadeonHD driver. Seems like BIOS is not parsed correctly. Will create a ticket with BIOS and TRACE messages.
<andreasdr[m]>
Let me check if there is a ticket
<x512[m]>
app_server crash in ServerWindow::GetInfo happens quite often for me.
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<nephele>
doesn't seem down
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<waddlesplash>
... that was a strange argument earlier today about updating
<waddlesplash>
why wouldn't it be done via CLI, indeed?
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<kallisti5[m]>
indeed. I have no idea lol
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<WildmanProductions>
so does chat-o-matic still have the OSCAR plugin
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<nephele>
I wasn't asking about updating the system, I was asking about whether somebody already made an application for pushing updates from a server, just running "pkgman update" via ssh isn't remotely that
<nephele>
andreasdr: I had to read that three times to figure out what your issue is
<andreasdr[m]>
Hmm. Which ticket? 1) or 2)
<nephele>
first one
<nephele>
anyhow, no need to link them here usually someone triages them (sets the right component and such)
<andreasdr[m]>
The headline should have said it all. True that.
<andreasdr[m]>
Sorry.
<andreasdr[m]>
I like to link here because it might raise some useful discussion or something.
<andreasdr[m]>
:D
<andreasdr[m]>
But I can stop that.
<nephele>
Well, everyone makes tickets :p, if you already know who might help with a specific area you can cc them to the ticket
<andreasdr[m]>
I know that everyone does everything. Sort of. Are you offended by posting a ticket here? I do not 100% see your point :)
<andreasdr[m]>
It could e.g. raise the question if HaikuOS spends a graphics board VEGA56 to the relevant person. But sure, if you all dont like it, I do not put them here anymore. Message ACKed.
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<nephele>
No, I am not offended, but posting them without context is a bit eh
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<andreasdr[m]>
BTW: This would be the reason for me to spend some money to Haiku, because I am interested in VEGA56 working.
<andreasdr[m]>
:x
<nephele>
For only updates about trac there is also an rss feed to use :)
<andreasdr[m]>
Thats nice.
<andreasdr[m]>
How to do that?
<nephele>
at the bottom of the timeline page is a download in other format section with rss in it
<andreasdr[m]>
Ok. Thanks.
<andreasdr[m]>
I have not used RSS for years. :DDD
<andreasdr[m]>
But cool.
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<nephele>
Well, you can donate to haiku but that is no gurantee for anything :p
<nephele>
I've changed the ticket component and owner, kallisti5 should see it now (in his inbox)
<andreasdr[m]>
I know. Maybe a system to spend for a specific HaikuOS development area could be interesting. E.g. I spend some $ to x512, because I like to see HW 3D working in Haiku. It raised the idea, that I could spend some money for specific Haiku areas that are interesting for me. Hmm. I know, this all is complicated a bit. Also I dont have much money currently.
<nephele>
That already exists, it's called bountysource or something. so far Haiku developers didn't care about it at all
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<nephele>
I for once don't care about receiving money personally, I'd much rather it goes to Haiku Inc to pay for server costs, pay waddlesplashes salary etc. Even If work I do is in areas some users would pay money for explicitly
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<rhx_irc>
Hey there, when I try to open the application Sequitur, I get an error stating "Missing Symbol _ZNK4BRow8HasLatchEv". It was working the first time I installed it, but after a reinstall it stopped working. Anyone know of a reason why?
<andreasdr[m]>
But graphics drivers development requires at minimum, that you can buy the specific graphics cards at least.
<nephele>
Sounds like a library it required got upgraded or is not installed
<andreasdr[m]>
Actually If I would do a donation of 30$ a month at least a single, maybe used, graphics board could be bought a year.
<nephele>
andreasdr: not neccesarily, any Haiku Inc buys hardware for developers that ask for it
<andreasdr[m]>
Nice.
<nephele>
and*
<andreasdr[m]>
Then I am quite.
<andreasdr[m]>
quiet
<nephele>
If you have hardware already to be donated you can probably also arrange that privately with devs that want it
<andreasdr[m]>
Thats also a very good point.
<nephele>
Haiku Inc bought that risc-v board for x512 and kallisti5 respectively
<andreasdr[m]>
Thank you for the ideas. Now I am a bit more knowledged about this. So the talk was not for no reason.
<nephele>
:)
<rhx_irc>
Hmm, do you know where I can start to debug this? "_ZNK4BRow8HasLatchEv" isnt giving any hints as to which library is causing the issue
<rhx_irc>
And considering it happened after I reinstalled the app, the uninstaller probably broke something
<nephele>
hmm, probably you can grep for that symbols in the state directory
<nephele>
where deindtalled packages go
<nephele>
Might also be a good idea to make a ticket at haikuports so they can fix the package and or recipe
<augiedoggie>
it's a columnlistview symbol, the demangled symbol is "BRow::HasLatch() const"
<nephele>
(maybe only a rebuild is needed)
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<augiedoggie>
i think those symbols were moved into their own library a few months ago
<augiedoggie>
might need a rebuild with the right linker flags
<rhx_irc>
If it is an issue with the build, why would it work during the first install but not the second?
<augiedoggie>
did you update haiku also?
<nephele>
probably your haiku got updated aswell
<nephele>
in that case it would work on the older version but needs to be rebuild for the newer one
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<rhx_irc>
That may be possible. I recall updating to latest before installing Sequitur, but installing it probably changed something else during its process
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<nephele>
installing is pretty atomic on haiku, it's likely something in the haiku package changed with the new version causing the incompatibility
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<waddlesplash>
indeed Sequitur will need a rebuild and to link against -lcolumnlistview
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<nephele>
slightly offtopic: I set up a new wifi router in my home network, i want to test my setup but I can't find a single working wifi scanner for iOS or android. is that just not a thing anymore?
<lelldorin>
hi all
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi
<Cian>
I have one called "wifi analyzer" that still works, on an Xperia 10 which is a few years old. I wonder if some chipsets don't let them work these days.
<Cian>
it also shows me how shockingly rammed the 2.4ghz band is here
<rennj>
i been using wifi analyzer since android 2.x
<nephele>
Well, I used to use pne called JAWS but it only works on android < 9
<rennj>
download the db on launch for the OUI foo
<rennj>
OUI database lookup all those mac's
<nephele>
I used to do that on a S5 but lineageos is too new now apparently
<rennj>
i would prefer the pinepro foo phone, rather just a linux phone with root open bootloader etc
<rennj>
ive only owned 2 android phones both motorola and i dont like locked bootloaders or android/adb foobar
<rennj>
i now after 8year android 4.x phone stopped working 3G...no lte/4g/5g foo...now i got flip-phone running this kaiOS
<rennj>
$30.00 for phone, $30 per month for unlimited txt/phone calls, 5GB of data per month, and it compounds the data plan you dont use per month
<Cian>
how are phone plans still so expensive in the US?
<nephele>
good question
<rennj>
limited choices i suppose.. what 3 networks
<rennj>
verizon.t-mobile,att
<Cian>
I pay EUR9.99 a month for unlimited everything, 5G included although I don't have the phone for it, the tradeoff is appalling email only customer support, and we're not a cheap country.
<nephele>
I guess Telekom failed to tip off EU customers so they do it in the US instead
<nephele>
rip*
<Cian>
and we've only three networks - two global behemoths and a domestic one owned by a telecoms billionaire with other assets
<Cian>
vodafone, Hutchinson (3) and eir
<rennj>
like medicine, .ca cuts deal, we get screwed
<rennj>
pharmaceuticals...go to canada for pills
<rennj>
go to mexico for dental work
<Cian>
and at the holiday house where coverage on eir is very poor I have a 10.99 unlimited everything but 4g only SIM doing the internet there
<Cian>
well, your medicine prices are infamous worldwide
<rennj>
cable/phone bills no better
<rennj>
consumer protection vs
<Cian>
cable isn't cheap here either. fibre broadband cheaper where available - two different companies are currently glassing up my town
<rennj>
look at texas and their wonderful energy policies
<Cian>
a fairly standard cable/phone/broadband bundle is 112EUR/month with no sports or movies
<rennj>
government not helping the little guy, and helping the soulless corp
<Cian>
now that's gigabit internet in that bundle
<Cian>
I pay 60 for 250mbit only, no tv no phone. well, a few channels are unecrypted
<Cian>
when the fibre firms open up here it'll be 45 for 500
<rennj>
zoom zoom
<rennj>
i got 1.2MB/s here whoopy!
<rennj>
i had like 7MB/s for like $80 15 years ago
<Cian>
one of the reasons its fast here is we were more than a bit late getting any decent broadband at all
<Cian>
it was 2004 or so when I eventually got 512k DSL, 32k dialup before
<rennj>
yeah i had cable modem in 2005 i owned, and was paying $80 for 7MB/s or so...before comcast bought adelphia cable company
<Cian>
and then I could only get what was then 120mbit cable by moving house in 2012, although the old house got gigabit cable about five years later
<rennj>
i also had unlimited usenet/giganews
<rennj>
that was cut in half then removed
<Cian>
we don't have the modem rental idea here
<Cian>
the cable company owns the modems, but provides them FOC
<rennj>
yeah well they tried that fee per month, why i owned my own cable modem running vxworks
<rennj>
motorola modem running vxworks kernel
<rennj>
you could uncap that sucker if you wanted to
<rennj>
illegal, but plenty of people did it
<Cian>
uncapping was never possible on eurodocsis. I think.
<rennj>
docsis 2.x before 3.x or whatever i want to say
<Cian>
again, slightly later introduction of tech
<Cian>
although in that case, caused by overly early introduction of tech
<nephele>
Heh, just connected a Haiku computer with a cable capable of 10mbit/s, clearly don't need a big plan :D
<Cian>
cable tv was super common here in the 1950s so the networks were ooooold
<rennj>
really that sound odd, cause uhf/vhf i had till late 70's early 80's when cable came to town
<rennj>
i remember watching mtv when they came on cable
<Cian>
I still have overhead delivered cable - runs along the front *and* back of the houses weirdly - although all the plant has been replaced
<Cian>
we had a very specific reason cable was huge - a neighbour speaking the same language with decent quality programmes
<Cian>
not everyone could put up a huge UHF antenna on their roof to get distant signals but a cable co could easily put a stack up on an even bigger mast and run local cable. and then those local firms merged slowly
<Cian>
and eventually they all got bought by the guy who ran TCI
<Cian>
who hasn't managed to import US cable operation practices
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<rennj>
yeah the duopoly/monopoly forms
<rennj>
competition!
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<rennj>
the owners of adelphia used the company as piggy bank, got busted, then bought out
<rennj>
comcast got another chunk of the market
<rennj>
comcast did tell adelphia customers no loss of service...well my usenet/giganews was cut in half, then removed
<rennj>
total loss of usenet/newgroups
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<Cian>
don't think the cable firm here ever offered usenet
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