<geigercounter[m]>
Yes, this looks pretty much like what I'd need. I bet I could use something like VOSK in a Python application to achieve the desired results. How well does Haiku support the Qt Framework? I'd like to be able to set up a GUI app for configuring the thing.
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<geigercounter[m]>
Also how does the desktop paradigm play out in Haiku? I am very used to the traditional "edge mounted panel/taskbar" of a lot of other desktop environments, but Haiku seems to do something else entirely.
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<geigercounter[m]>
Skipp_OSX: Is the Deskbar kinda like a floating panel? 🤔 I need to go check out a video. I don't have a working computer of my own with me so I have to wait for my mom to go to bed before I can try out Haiku myself.
<geigercounter[m]>
There is a lot to be said about consistency, but if people would just *pick* a theme engine then apps would be consistent. The GTK/Qt theme divide is a forever gripe I have with Linux.
<geigercounter[m]>
I want everything to be black and purple, simple as.
<jessicah>
you can change the colours with Appearance
<geigercounter[m]>
Nice.
<geigercounter[m]>
Look forward to trying that. That'll probably be enough to satisfy me as long as I don't get any sudden urges to change all the icons.
<geigercounter[m]>
Ampilin: Not meaning that as an insult, but it does remind me of desktops of that time. Was BeOS that way?
<AlienSoldier>
BeOS is the way.
<AlienSoldier>
anybody made a temple OS theme? :P
<geigercounter[m]>
AlienSoldier: Don't tempt me to waste my time like that. 😆
<Ampilin>
It is great, you only lack a descent web browser and that is multi-user
<geigercounter[m]>
I actually enjoy TempleOS, but not enough to use it for more than a novelty. I tried its spiritual successors, but last I did they were too unstable and too far off from what TOS was.
<AlienSoldier>
i could set on a browser that allow me to log into paypal right now.
<geigercounter[m]>
Still, if you've got a weekend to kill, pick up a ZealOS ISO
<Ampilin>
if a good web browser
<geigercounter[m]>
Anyways. What kind of things would you desire from a voice control program for Haiku?
<AlienSoldier>
An Hey interface for scripting
<Ampilin>
im going to hava to go to the bathroom im doing
<geigercounter[m]>
AlienSoldier: It seems like Hey is the best way to do it.
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<erysdren>
i know i'm not exactly using it the right way, but does haiku have known issues using the live image off USB, doing work, and then rebooting off the same USB?
<erysdren>
i was getting graphics issues after doing so
<erysdren>
the issue i was getting was that it would launch into Haiku, but the screen was at 1% brightness and i could barely see it
<erysdren>
re-imaging the USB fixed it. also Windows XP on the same machine does not experience it
<zdykstra>
That just sounds like a screen pref is being stored incorrectly
<erysdren>
yeah i figured
<jessicah>
it shouldn't have issues; using as a live install from usb has worked fine for me in the past
<erysdren>
ill try it again
<jessicah>
you could maybe try blacklisting display_adapter
<jessicah>
although I didn't think it could actually change brightness yet or not
<erysdren>
i think it was a haiku issue, since raising the screen's brightness with the physical laptop buttons didnt' do anything
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<waddlesplash>
geigercounter[m]: on Haiku, Qt uses system theming engine
<waddlesplash>
GTK of course doesn't, because it's GTK
<waddlesplash>
geigercounter[m]: however, Qt on Haiku doesn't support scripting introspection. It could be modified to support this, though, it's just something the port wasn't adapted for
<geigercounter[m]>
waddlesplash: I see. How much effort would it take to do so?
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<waddlesplash>
no idea :)
<waddlesplash>
I guess looking at the scripting implementation in Haiku's Interface Kit would give an idea
<waddlesplash>
and then the question is what must be done on the Qt side
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<OscarL>
Does someone remembers if there's already an open ticket for this?: "mkdir: cannot create directory ‘/boot/home/config/non-packaged’: Read-only file system"
<OscarL>
(gues trying to mkdir() on ~/config makes sense, but maybe the "shine-through" should be special cased?)
<OscarL>
s/gues/guess/
<OscarL>
*mkdir() failing, that makes sense. Sorry for the typos.
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<zdykstra>
OscarL: hola!
<OscarL>
Hello there zdykstra! :-D
<jessicah>
OscarL: huh, that's weird... I'd have expected the already exists error
<OscarL>
hi jessicah! Yeah... either that, or a fake "this is ok" for that particular subdir of config :-D
<OscarL>
And while I doubt this hasn't come up before yet in some form or another, I can't find a matching ticket on Trac (most relevant was a comment from René on https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/10057).
<jessicah>
ah yeah, it's due to how packagefs is implemented
<OscarL>
even "cmd:python$pythonVersion" could be left out, as it will be pulled in by one of the other python packages, but... Explicit is better than implicit.
<OscarL>
setup.py's "install_requires" is python code for "runtime dependencies".
<Begas_VM>
yeah, didn't check so far (read the source Luke!) :)
<OscarL>
:D
<Begas_VM>
beautifulsoup_python310 >= 4.9.3
<Begas_VM>
request_python310
<Begas_VM>
urwid_python310 >= 2.1.2
<Begas_VM>
wcwidth_python310 >= 0.2.6
<Begas_VM>
why am I not seeing a version for request there?
<OscarL>
should be 2.27.1 no?
<Begas_VM>
yep, looking into the archive it looks ok
<OscarL>
right... "provides: requests_python310 = 2.27.1" that looks OK at least.
<Begas_VM>
lol typo
<OscarL>
but it also says: "requires: chardet_python310" (no version)
<OscarL>
ah... requestS
<Begas_VM>
request_python310 vs requests_python310 >= 2.27.1 :D
<Begas_VM>
/packages/python3.10_x86-3.10.11-2/.self/lib/python3.10/vendor-packages/bs4/element.py:15: UserWarning: The soupsieve package is not installed. CSS selectors cannot be used.
<Begas_VM>
warnings.warn(
<Begas_VM>
get this on starting toot in Terminal, missing something?
<Begas_VM>
looks like we got soupsieve ...
<OscarL>
maybe one of those "extras" that pythons packages can be requested to install.
<OscarL>
something like "setuptools[toml]"
<Begas_VM>
something like a dependency from a dependency? ;)
<OscarL>
basically meaning... it is NOT a hard dependency of setuptools, but if its installed, it will be used.
<Begas_VM>
so adding it to setuptools will fix it also?
<OscarL>
in pip you request those extras using that "package_name[extra_name]" syntax. pkgman is lacking something like that :-/
<Begas_VM>
warning gone now
<Begas_VM>
I think it's up to the porter to provide the correct REQUIRES here
<OscarL>
might be that toot do not actually requires it, but bs4 warns anyway.
<OscarL>
looks like a hard-dependency? (the optional ones being "htmllib" and "lxml" instead).
<Begasus>
latest version uses toml iirc
<geigercounter[m]>
Does anyone here have experience with Golang?
<Begasus>
doubt it geigercounter[m] very old one at haikuports and no one stepped up (or published) something newer
<OscarL>
not me geigercounter[m], sorry. Only know that our go port is old.
<Begasus>
though many tried :)
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<OscarL>
Begasus: want me to update bs4, or you'll do it?
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<Begasus>
you can do it OscarL :)
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<Begasus_32>
~> botan cpu_clock
<Begasus_32>
Estimated CPU clock 2.5 GHz
<geigercounter[m]>
Hmmm. I'm currently doing work and research on vosk and kaldi for voice control and accessibility via a program called numen: https://numenvoice.org/
<geigercounter[m]>
It's written in Go and uses a custom-rolled version of xdotool as the control mechanism. I reckon that it could be ported to Haiku with only a little difficulty by replacing the dotool backend with the Hey interface and modifying the recording interface to whatever extent is necessary. But it'd have to be either rewritten in C++ or Python ( I refuse to use C# ) or else Haiku's Golang port would need to be sufficiently up-to-date.
<Begasus>
seems to work ok (botan3)
<geigercounter[m]>
Still haven't even gotten to try Haiku because my mom's computer is being disagreeable about running a VM.
<geigercounter[m]>
Thoughts?
<OscarL>
Ah... this is for that voice-control a la Win7, right?
<Begasus>
I can't even write "Hello World" in any language, so count me out there geigercounter[m] :)
<OscarL>
Welp, seems like a nice project and, IMO, Haiku is a nice place to work on such things (less messy than Linux mix of DEs/toolkits), besides some rough edges (lack of drivers, some missing dependencies you might have, etc).
<Begasus>
k, another round for botan, well rename the recipe to botan3 (as library name/SONAMe changes et all)
<geigercounter[m]>
Vosk works very well for basic language recognition at a fairly lightweight and numen basically lets you assign logic to an arbitrary dictionary of phrases that the language model can recognize to the end of controlling programs and accomplishing somewhat clunky dictation. It'd be a pretty big addon to Haiku, but would also be a really awesome and useful accessibility milestone. If all goes according to the plan I have in mind, the
<geigercounter[m]>
final product will be something you can install in one big package and it'll "just work".
<geigercounter[m]>
I might need somebody's help for the GUI though.
<OscarL>
You can count on me for moral support at least! (don't have enough programming skills to help, sadly :-/)
<Begasus>
only 2 OS's reported for numen on repology
<OscarL>
You can try writing about your project/proposal/roadmap over on the forum, geigercounter[m], it might reach more people that just the bunch of us here on IRC.
<geigercounter[m]>
OscarL: I am not organized enough for that yet! I only just started working on this about 10 hours ago.
<Begasus>
it "can" go silent here for days on IRC (depending how's online) :)
<geigercounter[m]>
Thanks for the support! 😁
<geigercounter[m]>
Begasus: That does seem to be how it goes! 😆
<Begasus>
for looking into a recipe at haikuports I can guide you to a bit I guess :D
<Begasus>
to/too* ... bugger
<OscarL>
Begasus: re: silent IRC... wonder if trungnt2910[m] now regrets saying this channel is too quiet :-P
<OscarL>
It ain't on my watch! :-P
<Begasus>
heh probably does OscarL :)
<OscarL>
ouch! :-P
<Begasus>
ps, did you start on bs4 already? :P
<OscarL>
can't if you keep talking to me, psst! :-P
<Begasus>
launching build for botan3, that will take a few hours
<Begasus>
tsss ...
<geigercounter[m]>
Oh, hey. I have a curiosity. I know Wine was ported to Haiku. Has anybody gotten Steam/Proton working on Haiku?
<Begas_VM>
not me (mostly on 32bit)
<OscarL>
We don't have 3D HW support yet (besides some experiments), so no much need for it.
<Begas_VM>
and so far I got everything I need for Haiku inside Haiku :)
<OscarL>
Also, doesn't it depends on blink/chromium? (we don't have that one either).
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<geigercounter[m]>
Hmm... Well at present, Haiku is not a likely candidate for a daily driver for me except on older hardware where 3D acceleration is not much a concern, but if I were ever going to make the switch for keeps I would want such things. Gaming is pretty important to me.
<erysdren>
agreed
<erysdren>
once i get a machine setup i wanna try porting some older games of which there is source
<erysdren>
specifically i wanna use haiku on this 2005 thinkpad
<Begasus>
looking forward to those erysdren :)
<erysdren>
i've always wanted to make own quake sourceport.... considering porting WinQuake or icculus's old SDLQuake
<geigercounter[m]>
I'm not sure I'll ever leave Linux tbh. I am quite fond of my extremely specific and janky setup. But I have some dissatisfaction with Linux lately and Haiku is weird and quirky and may work for me.
<erysdren>
yeah i'm a big time linux user on my main desktop
<erysdren>
but haiku to me feels perfect for that old laptop when i wanna chill in bed or something
* OscarL
remembers installing SuSE 5.1 in 1998... how time flies.
<Begas_VM>
RH5.1 (such a pain!) :)
<Begas_VM>
SuSE 6.0 was a releaf compared :)
<OscarL>
CorelLinux 1.0 was kinda cool (polished kde 1), too bad it didn't lasted much :-D
<Begas_VM>
And BeOS5 made them all like old dogs :P
<OscarL>
that's true!
<geigercounter[m]>
Yeah. Aside from Puppy, I find it difficult to find a useful and lightweight distro these days. TinyCore Linux is just not that useful. And my own attempts at making a lightweight Linux with a graphical environment that *isn't* X11 were met with me going "fuck it, I don't care enough to make this work"
<Begas_VM>
Elive wasn't that bad back then
<geigercounter[m]>
Some day, I will make those projects happen maybe.
<erysdren>
i have been considering giving classic BeOS a shot (not for daily driving, but out of historical interest)
<Begas_VM>
when you get to my age one doesn't tend to move back (only going down memory lane at times) :)
<erysdren>
ah i'm only 22 so i have plenty of time to look back :D
<Begas_VM>
yeah, been there, it was nice, but now isn't so bad either :D
<geigercounter[m]>
I'm 27 now
<Begas_VM>
oldest granddaughter is almost 15
<OscarL>
I was 23 for my first BeOS install. I think. Too long ago :-D
<Begas_VM>
around 36 here OscarL :)
<Begas_VM>
cleaning/patching/rebuilding llvm9 atm, this is gonna hurt :P
<erysdren>
hmm, i love id software games so i'm wondering which one i wanna go with
<erysdren>
GLQuake would be the easiest to port, i'd just use TinyGL and fix up any broken calls, use Haiku SDL2 for windowing
<erysdren>
or... something
<OscarL>
no pain, no gain Begas_VM! :-P
<erysdren>
but maybe something like DOOM or Wolf3D would be more stimulating to port
<erysdren>
or god forbid Duke 3D
<Begasus>
checked haikuports if there aren't one of those already?
<OscarL>
yamagi_quake2
<erysdren>
oh right
<OscarL>
openarena
<OscarL>
tyrquake_libretro
<erysdren>
ah damn, all the ones i had in mind have been done it seems
<erysdren>
in haikuports
<Begasus>
:)
<erysdren>
i might do one anyway just as something to do, but i would like to do something that hasn't been done before
<OscarL>
hexen ones, duke is there...
<OscarL>
even Gordon Freeman can Haiku, thanks to xash3d
<erysdren>
lol
<erysdren>
thanks Xash
<geigercounter[m]>
erysdren: Port Hover from Windows95. I miss that game.
<OscarL>
is there any port for Catacom3D, or we should just use DosBox?
<Begasus>
we haven't been sitting still at haikuports :)
<Begasus>
checked repology OscarL ?
<OscarL>
*Catacomb 3D. Will do.
<Begasus>
meantime ... I still haven't seen a PR for bs4 ...
<erysdren>
seems that Catacomb3D hasn't been ported
<Begas_VM>
you can type once a build is running :P
<OscarL>
network topping at 80 kbps doesn't helps :-(
<Begas_VM>
good thing you're not doing llvm then :)
<OscarL>
"ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'hatchling'" never heard of that one before :-D
<Begas_VM>
heh
<Begas_VM>
didn't encounter that one also
<Begas_VM>
just as wcwidth earlier
<OscarL>
Begas_VM: why do you think I stay away from big recipes or large dependencies :D
<Begas_VM>
oh, you could try some of those sci recipes, not big, not many dependencies .... always a joy to build ....
<OscarL>
hatchling -->> "Modern, extensible Python build backend" another one of those? how many are there? (narrator: it is Python so... at least 3.14 gazillions)
<Begas_VM>
-50MiB for llvm, not that bad
<Begas_VM>
heh
<Begas_VM>
are you trying the latest bs4?
<OscarL>
yup
<Begas_VM>
ah, bit work from scratch then
<Begas_VM>
atleast the BUILD section I guess
<OscarL>
using build+installer now.
<OscarL>
(ditching setuptools)
<OscarL>
but still trying to figure out all these darn build backends :-(
<Begas_VM>
good think I looked into those then ;)
<OscarL>
also good I added one needed for build 0.10.0 :-D
<OscarL>
(korli cheated with that one.... using older build to build build :D)
<OscarL>
seems we can go up to 4.12.0 while still using setuptools.
<Begas_VM>
nice!
<OscarL>
trying to run some test now (just in case)
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<OscarL>
(can't add TEST() for all python versions because we dropped pytest for 3.8... oops! :-D)
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<Begasus>
"we"? ;)
* OscarL
looks around.
<OscarL>
k. I.
* Begasus
nods ...
<Begasus>
well, can't you run the tests for only one version?
<OscarL>
"4 failed, 622 passed, 1 warning in 14.41s"
<Begasus>
not bad
<OscarL>
that's what I did. only for python 3.9 (it's the default, after all, and considering we didn't even ran TEST() before... good enough, I say :-D.
<Begasus>
+1
<OscarL>
need to add a || true at the end, coz hp thinks it is broken otherwise :-D
<OscarL>
(pytest sets $? to 1)
<OscarL>
and all 4 fails are on same lxml test case. That lxml always gives some issues
<OscarL>
... IIRC from when running the tests for the main Python packages (3.10)
<Begasus>
like in Gentoo "| die" :)
<OscarL>
yup. only this "please don't die" :-D
<Begasus>
have to nick some of your work for the python recipes to recreate my template :P
<Begasus>
pydispatcher ... this could work :)
<OscarL>
looks reasonably sane :-D
<OscarL>
(unlike me :-D)
<Begas_VM>
heh, did a good job there :)
<Begas_VM>
grabbing editables-0.3-1-any.hpkg and moving it to /boot/home/haikuports/packages/editables-0.3-1-any.hpkg
<Begas_VM>
grabbing editables_python310-0.3-1-any.hpkg and moving it to /boot/home/haikuports/packages/editables_python310-0.3-1-any.hpkg
<Begas_VM>
grabbing editables_python38-0.3-1-any.hpkg and moving it to /boot/home/haikuports/packages/editables_python38-0.3-1-any.hpkg
<Begas_VM>
grabbing editables_python39-0.3-1-any.hpkg and moving it to /boot/home/haikuports/packages/editables_python39-0.3-1-any.hpkg
<Begas_VM>
should add some documentation on the python build system on my wiki ...
* OscarL
updates bs4 description to the one on current website
<OscarL>
Begas_VM: yeah... it gets confusing fast :-D
<Begas_VM>
autotools = autotools, not much fuzz there, same with cmake/meson ...
<Begas_VM>
but python :)
<Begas_VM>
should create some python templates using setup.py/*.whl/pyproject ...
<OscarL>
on Python, I was afraid we might need poetry... but as long as we can do it with build+installer... I'll avoid poetry and is dependencies.
<Begas_VM>
never used it, so can't complain so far
<OscarL>
that's why I'm not so eager to work on recipes for every "build backend" out there, without trying first with what we already have :-D
<Begas_VM>
I've got some time (llvm9 can hold on for now) to look into hatchling :)
<Begas_VM>
atleast start out with the dependencies
<OscarL>
Python packaging is still a moving target. better let it settle down a bit instead of trying to chase it too closely :-D
<OscarL>
darn, forgot to sort some of the requires :-D
<Begas_VM>
OscarL for new python recipes we shouldn't add one for python3.8 right? (as nothing so far is actually using it)
<Begas_VM>
heh
<OscarL>
I wouldn't add 3.8 for new recipes, no.
<Begas_VM>
k, I'll leave them out in the templates also then
<OscarL>
+1
<OscarL>
I think we might end up skipping 3.11, if we're lucky :-D (we might have a recipe for the main Python 3.11 package just for testing things, but for the _python3xx ones... we might just want to jump to 3.12)
<jjido>
I am trying to install Haiku on my Thinkpad. The nightly doesn’t boot. The beta does, but the installer hangs at bash hpkg 192 of 562
<jjido>
I reformatted the disk with DriveSetup. Let’s see.
<jjido>
Still hanging
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<jjido>
What can I try?
<augiedoggie>
boot into safe mode? try a nightly from a few weeks ago?
<jjido>
Is it Shift for safe mode?
<zdykstra>
or space, if you're booting via EFI
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<jjido>
The nightly hangs on the rocket launcher
<jjido>
Is there a way to see why?
<jjido>
I also tried safe boot.
<jjido>
Module Intel partition map recognised the partition, but failed to scan it.
<jjido>
Could not find partition
<jjido>
I copied the iso to a sd card directly, didn’t partition it. Is that wrong?
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<Begasus>
g'night peeps
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<jjido>
For some reason, after enabling on screen debug logging, the USB boots all the way. But the nightly has the same installer hang issue as the beta
<jjido>
Is there a way to install on the command line?
<Encelo>
Hello, I hope I'm using the right communication channel. I'm trying to build Haiku x86_64 from sources on Arch Linux but I got several errors from jam. Buildtools build just fine though.
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<Encelo>
If I follow the documentation and issue `jam -q @nightly-anyboot`, I get "don't know how to make @nightly-anyboot". So I'm using just `jam -j16 -q` but I'm getting various compilation errors. :(
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<andreasdr>
Arrrr
<jessicah>
Encelo: are you using jam from our buildtools?
<jessicah>
Boost and freetype jam are incompatible
<jjido>
jessicah: is there a command line installer ?
<Encelo>
yes, I built jam from the buildtools I downloaded from git
<jessicah>
jjido: I don't believe so
<jessicah>
Encelo: are you invoking jam from the generated dir?
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<jessicah>
It can sometimes behave weirdly without
<jessicah>
jjido: apart from maybe installing MBR boot sector and such for bios/csm boot, it's pretty much just a big file copy operation
<Encelo>
I have added the directory that contains the jam executable to my PATH and ran jam from the generated directory, yes
<jessicah>
You can probably look at the iso layout for how to copy onto disk
<jessicah>
Encelo: huh, maybe try absolute path to your built jam?
<jjido>
So I can just copy the files from the iso to the target partition ?
<jessicah>
jjido: basically, I think there are a couple path tweaks, but pretty close
<jessicah>
I think installer has some non-active packages in a separate dir that get copied into the packages dir
<jessicah>
If in doubt, there are sources for the Installer app :) uses a copyengine class
<jessicah>
I'd be more specific if I wasn't on my phone ;-)
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<jjido>
I could not use that method to install. One thing I did find is that the nightly boots fine with the VESA driver.
<jjido>
I don’t understand. It feels like when the installer reaches the bash hpkg, it takes a big lock and everything is blocked, can’t run any app. About Haiku doesn’t show high memory usage.
<jjido>
The top command doesn’t show high CPU. When the installer starts I see the Installer Copy Engine on top but it quickly moves down and stays there, stuck on the bash hpkg.