ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
<zard> I've been thinking: should we have `from Interface import BWindow` like in the C++ api?
<coolcoder613_mac> maybe `from Be.Interface import BWindow`
<coolcoder613_mac> But I like be able to `from Be import *`
<coolcoder613_mac> for C++ you can `#include <Be.h>`
<zard> Maybe the two styles you mentioned are compatible, i.e. `from Be import *` would import Be.Interface.BWindow?
<zard> Wait, you can do that in C++? I never knew that
<coolcoder613_mac> I have looked around at the header files :)
<zard> Ha ha, just like how I found out that fortune exists
<coolcoder613_mac> We do that already, look at __init__.py
<zard> I guess the best way would be to allow both styles: `from Be import BWindow` and `from Interface import BWindow`
<coolcoder613_mac> No, from Be.Interface
<zard> Or that :)
<zard> I see the imports in __init__.py. Do you know if it's already possible to import something in a style similar to the one you mentioned?
<coolcoder613_mac> I think so, but you have to have a specific order, because not everything does a py::import
<zard> Ok, __init.py__ does `from .Window import *` instead of `from .Interface import Window`, so, there would be some work involved
<coolcoder613_mac> Just put them in folders with an __init__.py for each
<zard> Ah, that's easy enough :)
<zard> But, first would naturally be to continue working on releasing v0.2
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hello HaikuUser
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<cocobean> qtwebengine: Crashes seem resolved. Small issue with a lag with Octane 2.0 test... otherwise - seems OK.
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<cocobean> Web+ - able to rebase to 618.1.7 without issue. For MEdia Kit - able to run live news feed stream without much issue once initial buffering resolves.
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/67582700629d...9959e96313d0
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie 9959e96 - ripgrep: update to 14.0.1 (#9793)
<augiedoggie> that recipe is a huge pain in the butt
<augiedoggie> ~60 sources, i thought about just letting cargo fetch the crates
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<zdykstra> dang. Nice work on getting that updated.
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hello Begasus
<Begasus> Hi coolcoder613_mac
* coolcoder613_mac is writing Rust...
<coolcoder613_mac> They should have called it iron ;)
<coolcoder613_mac> You need to bang it into shape before the compiler deigns to touch it :)
<Begasus> good luck on that :)
<Begasus> had many fights with that, but if it works it's nice
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<Anarchos> Hello there
<coolcoder613_mac> Hello Anarchos
<Anarchos> coolcoder613_mac: i got reviews from Interlisp to my haiku port patch :)
<coolcoder613_mac> What did they say?
<Anarchos> that we should implement gethostid (but we won't since it has been decided explicitly that way in a ticket), and my replacement of stpncpy by strncpy is inorrect.
<phschafft> gethostid... hm...
<Anarchos> phschafft: :)
<Anarchos> yah, good idea a 32 bit unique identifier amongst unices machines :)
<Anarchos> but the reasoning is not silly : in libroot documentation it is said somewhere that we implement POSIX, so gesthostid should be there.
<phschafft> yes.
<phschafft> I just remembered the days that was relevant. ;)
<phschafft> does POSIX actually say anything about the value? or would it, strictly speaking, be valid to always return 0?
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<phschafft> I think the last part is not fully true.
<phschafft> I think that is the reason why there is no sethostid() in POSIX. to make POSIX most complete and compatible and still render this useless so it can be nicely deprecated.
<phschafft> not having a sethostid() also safes you from needing a syscall for it or similar.
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<Anarchos> phschafft: indeed, even POSIX has a good sense of humour : https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/
<Anarchos> "This volume of POSIX.1-2017 does not define the domain in which the return value is unique." :DDDD
<x512[m]> So long gethostid(void) {return 1;} is valid implementation?
<PulkoMandy> x512[m]: Yes
<phschafft> I think the only interesting question is about ensuring different software components see the same value when running at the same time in the same env.
<phschafft> e.g. to avoid that you see 1 in lisp and 0 in C and 1337 in python.
<x512[m]> My solution satisfy this requirements.
<x512[m]> It will return 1 in Lisp, C and Python.
<phschafft> then go for it. :)
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<Anarchos> phschafft: my better solution is to make the interlisp people accept that we don't have gethostid...
<phschafft> I don't know their internal constrains. but generally they should already have it deprecated anyway ;)
<Anarchos> phschafft: this is the moment i say that interlisp comes and dates back to Xerox PaloAlto... i saw some 1989 in the copyrights :)
<phschafft> ;)
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<bjorkintosh> Anarchos, you got medley running on interlisp?
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<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: no i got medley running on Haiku
<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: it is not an evidence but this screenshot was taken on Haiku (fullscreen window) https://ibb.co/XbFp4WC
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<bjorkintosh> Anarchos, that's what I meant :-)
<bjorkintosh> medley on haiku.
<bjorkintosh> was it difficult?
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<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: no, one h: just commenting signals wich don't exist on haiku : SIGIO, F_SETOWN etc. And using the sdl backend (i could not make the x backend work with xlibe yet)
<Anarchos> one hour.
<bjorkintosh> wow.
<bjorkintosh> not bad at all.
<bjorkintosh> have you attempted to run opengenera too?
<Sark> I need to learn the differences between the various Lisp environments. Not totally sure where they all fit together.
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<bjorkintosh> Sark, medley and opengenera are historical.
<bjorkintosh> the current Common Lisp environment is ...
<bjorkintosh> Emacs
<Sark> haha
<bjorkintosh> (with slime)
<Sark> Well, but there's Opengenera and then just Genera, right?
<bjorkintosh> same thing really.
<Sark> I'm pretty sure my Symbolics ran Genera 7.2? Something like that? It's been a while since I used it. Never really did fully learn the ins and outs of the OS, it's very... different.
<bjorkintosh> you had a 'bolix?
<Sark> Still do.
<bjorkintosh> wat??!
<bjorkintosh> what sort of software do you have on it, besides the OS?
<Sark> Mostly just the OS, I got it second hand, of course, I played with it for a while but never really learned a ton about it. The mouse started acting up and it became something I needed to fix, and... well it's been a couple years.
<Sark> I've been kind of holding out on firing it back up again until I have the time and everything ready to dedicate to imaging the hard drive.
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<bjorkintosh> of course.
<bjorkintosh> Sark, I've only ever used it emulated. lots of quirky bits about it.
<bjorkintosh> I wish I understood the VM a lot better than I do at the moment.
<Anarchos> indeed. And i don't know lisp at all
<Sark> Yeah, I only know a little. It's a fascinating system and I've wanted to do more with it.
<Sark> Of course, my other current problem is that I need to move it to my house and get it out of my parent's basement... and that thing is a pain in the neck to move.
<bjorkintosh> Anarchos, which languages do you know?
<bjorkintosh> Common Lisp can be surprisingly imperative.
<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: ocaml c c++
<bjorkintosh> oh. ocaml is lisp adjacent.
<bjorkintosh> (ish)
<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: i know i know
<bjorkintosh> hell, the first versions of ML were bootstrapped in lisp
<Anarchos> i am reading" practical common lisp" at the moment
<bjorkintosh> yep. very good place to start.
<Anarchos> bjorkintosh: i know they bootstrapped caml with lisp
<Anarchos> but could not find taht version
<Anarchos> anyway, time to leave off work
<bjorkintosh> buried in a paper reference somewhere.
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<jelkner> hi all, would anyone here have a few minutes to help a newbie with haiku programming?
<jelkner> i'm a high school cs teacher working my way through DarkWyrm's book
<jelkner> i'm stuck on chapter 14
<jelkner> the first time an attempt is made to create a GUI program on haiku
<augiedoggie> i can help but i'm in the middle of doing some other stuff so it may take a few minutes to answer
<jelkner> thanks augiedoggie, i'll have class start again in 20 minutes
<Al2O3> oh cool.
<jelkner> but i'll keep coming back
<Al2O3> nice to know about this.
<jelkner> Al2O3, that is the resource i'm using
<Al2O3> yah, just looked it up, didn't remember or know about it and forgot.
<jelkner> i've put the first app in a git repo
<Al2O3> neat resource
<jelkner> yes indeed
<jelkner> i'm teaching C++ this year to my students
<Al2O3> nice, that will be neat to take a very old and unfinished product like Haiku and get it some exposure.
<jelkner> and thinking Haiku could provide the best way for us to expand into GUI programming
<Al2O3> I like Haiku, wish it was more mainstream.
<Al2O3> fast, lean, and opensource.
<jelkner> Al2O3, i've been following it for years
<Al2O3> me too
<jelkner> it is not really usable
<Al2O3> was involved with it in 95/96.
<jelkner> wow
<Al2O3> back when it was BeOS
<jelkner> a veteran!
<Al2O3> one of the first, owned machine #0004
<Al2O3> but what a fun operating system to use for C++.
<Al2O3> As for GUI programming, not sure about that.
<Skipp_OSX> so does your test Haiku App compile and show a window or not?
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<Al2O3> As much as I don't like Crapple any more, I'd say interface builder and the GUI libraries for OSX are maybe a bit more suited? Not trying to bash or take away Haiku kudos, just seems so much simpler to do drag and drop, and make live link/message associations dynamically and/or programmatically.
<Skipp_OSX> Apple uses objective C or Swift, not C++ for the most part.
<Al2O3> correct
<jelkner> So in Paladin, as DarkWyn recommends
<Al2O3> just depends on if the objective is to do GUI programming, or C++ GUI programming.
<jelkner> i am getting "undefined reference to `main'
<Al2O3> for the latter, I'd say Haiku is maybe better.
<Al2O3> anyway, back to help
<jelkner> my goal is C++ GUI programming
<jelkner> and Haiku is looking like the potentially best way to do that
<Skipp_OSX> yep, Haiku is C++ and GUI
<augiedoggie> hm, might be because the signature isn't right, should be 'int main(int argc, char** argv)'
<jelkner> So i don't know if anyone has a minute or 3 to clone the repo, load the project in Paladin, and tell me what i'm doing wrong
<Skipp_OSX> or void, but that shouldn't matter
<jelkner> in the book, it's just void
<jelkner> which i always ommit without problem
<jelkner> i'll try changing the signature, but here are no command line arguments, so i wouldn't think i should
<Skipp_OSX> yeah that shouldn't be a problem
<augiedoggie> Paladin hasn't been worked on in a while and has some quirks, you might try the Genio IDE
<jelkner> augiedoggie, let me try that
<jelkner> i'll let you know how it goes
<jelkner> I don't see Genio IDE in the HaikuDepot
<bjorkintosh> jelkner, emacs works in haiku if you prefer that.
<jelkner> i'm a vim guy
<jelkner> and i have that working
<bjorkintosh> fantastic!
<jelkner> DarkWyrm reccommeded an IDE for GUI programming though
<jelkner> since there is sooo much boiler plate
<jelkner> btw. Paladin was last updated this year
<bjorkintosh> ah okay. that makes sense.
<jelkner> this is a long term project
<Skipp_OSX> Paladin should work
<bjorkintosh> jelkner, may I ask, is it a programming class or a c++ class?
<Al2O3> quick link I found, from '09
<augiedoggie> the app compiles and runs fine for me with paladin
<augiedoggie> although i had to re-add the source files to the project
<jelkner> thanks, augiedoggie
<jelkner> let me try that
<Skipp_OSX> try Build => Update dependencies
<Skipp_OSX> I wonder if it's not linking to libbe.so as it should
<augiedoggie> i think it's just confused about which source files are part of the project
<jelkner> wow, it worked!
<jelkner> that's all i needed
<jelkner> you rock, augiedoggie
<Al2O3> good luck jelkner
<jelkner> ok, i have students coming
<jelkner> but i'm ready to resume my Haiku journey now
<jelkner> thanks!!
<augiedoggie> :)
<Al2O3> have fun, some here will follow
<Skipp_OSX> ok cool, great.
<Al2O3> look forward to updates and exams :)
<jelkner> i'm hoping to become a regular
<Al2O3> that would be fun
<jelkner> and perhaps a recruiter of young talent for Haiku
<Al2O3> that would be useful.
* jelkner signs off for class
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57417] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=783aa308c31c+%5E111528d18dab
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 783aa308c31c - network/stack: Clean up socket_receive.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] ba4ed24acc17 - Tracker: Replace Path with Location in Query
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57418] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=ba4ed24acc17+%5E783aa308c31c
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<waddlesplash> hm, this channel is set to +s
<waddlesplash> anybody remember why we did that?
<waddlesplash> #haiku-3rdparty isn't
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<bjorkintosh> what's +s?
<waddlesplash> channel doesn't appear in server listings
<bjorkintosh> it does.
<bjorkintosh> just checked.
<waddlesplash> yes, but you're in it!
<bjorkintosh> shows #haiku, #haiku-3rdparty and #haiku-promo
<waddlesplash> the other two are not +s
<waddlesplash> if you leave this channel it should stop showing up in all listings
<bjorkintosh> I'll test it and see.
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<bjorkintosh> magic.
<bjorkintosh> perhaps it keeps the hoi polloi guessing.
<augiedoggie> as far as i can tell it's been +s for 2 years :P
<waddlesplash> so, since the beginning I guess
<waddlesplash> (since we've only been on OFTC for 2 years)
<bjorkintosh> so not a big deal. is there a reason it never migrated to libera?
<waddlesplash> we jumped ship from freenode to here, before libera was even a thing
<augiedoggie> AlwaysLivid kept turning it on for some of the #haiku* channels
<waddlesplash> and we don't really have any reason to move, oftc is fine
<bjorkintosh> ah. early departures.
<waddlesplash> yes, we got out while the going was still good lol
<bjorkintosh> fair enough.
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<waddlesplash> augiedoggie: if you want an X11 server it will probably be easiest to port xwayland at this point I suspect
<augiedoggie> it would be nice to have but i have plenty of other things to work on
<waddlesplash> fair enough :)
<augiedoggie> i may give it a shot just to see how hard it is
<waddlesplash> well at least compiling Xnest wasn't too bad
<waddlesplash> so I'd guess Xwayland is equivalently easy to at least build
<waddlesplash> who knows what'll happen after that
<augiedoggie> yeah
<augiedoggie> i just spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out why emacs freaked out on me, i think it's hitting limitations of the font api
<waddlesplash> oh?
<augiedoggie> we may have to offer a split package, one with cairo enabled
<augiedoggie> certain fonts like nerd-fonts and all-the-icons won't render properly
<augiedoggie> i don't know if it's the ligatures or what
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<Al2O3> got an old lenovo T430U, will haiku install well on this portable?
<waddlesplash> probably
<waddlesplash> I have a T550, works fine
<Al2O3> neat, TY
<Al2O3> latest iso?
<waddlesplash> which "latest"
<Al2O3> link if you have it, if not I'll find it.
<waddlesplash> either b4 or a nightly should work, yes
<augiedoggie> in the channel topic
<Al2O3> Ty
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<Al2O3> waddlesplash: 32 or 64 make a diffy?
<waddlesplash> yes
<waddlesplash> more software on 64bits usually
<Al2O3> 6 meg dl speed, nice
<Skipp_OSX> T430U should work fine, it's listed here: https://hardware.besly.de/index.php?systeme=list
<Al2O3> TY
<Al2O3> got no CD/DVD in this lappy, so its either smart card or USB looks like.
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<Skipp_OSX> The sound card was an issue at one point, but that too has been resolved I believe.
<Al2O3> neat.
<Al2O3> hopefully wifi as well, linux mint doesn't do by install/default (later updated maybe with aptget kinda stuff) the wifi on this lappy.
<Al2O3> thus Haiku going on it.
<Al2O3> I'm assuming this works on most systems?
<Al2O3> I'm using OSX to make the USB stick.
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<Al2O3> I do not have etcher, I'm running old 10.6.8
<Al2O3> "Any tool writing ISO images will work in about the same way as Etcher: Choose the "Anyboot" image as source, pick the correct USB flash drive, write the image."
<Skipp_OSX> yeah wifi should work
<Al2O3> cool.
<Al2O3> Skipp_OSX: will disk utility write this iso to a USB stick of 8 gb and do it so its bootable on this lenovo?
<Al2O3> or should I use dd
<Al2O3> either or?
<Skipp_OSX> use belena etcher although dd works fine
<Al2O3> 10.6.8 here, not sure, but will see if etcher is available
<Skipp_OSX> ok use dd then
<Skipp_OSX> Disk Utility might work but I'm not sure, I know dd works.
<Al2O3> cool, DL etcher now just to see if its all in the .pkg and works with snow slut
<Skipp_OSX> dd if=haiku-anyboot.iso of=/dev/disk3 bs=1M or whatever the disk number is in `diskutil list` (which I think works on 10.6.8?)
<Skipp_OSX> hmmm actually it says Wireless card not supported.
<Skipp_OSX> :/
<Skipp_OSX> is that still true? Realtek RTL8111/8168
<Al2O3> not sure if its the 8111/8168 (don't recall), but that was and is a problem with the standard distro now of mint as mentioned.
<Al2O3> there is a driver out there to fix this, but you have to be hooked up wired and then get it, install, and I'm like… why not in the distro?
<Al2O3> so I passed
<Al2O3> anyway, heading to burn to a USB, TY for the dd command, and hopefully this at least boots, and installs.
<Al2O3> maybe wifi will work, maybe not.
<Skipp_OSX> Can you look in System Information to see what the wifi is while you're in Mac OS X?
<Skipp_OSX> (hold option while selecting About this Mac to get sysinfo)
<Al2O3> you mean my PM 1,1->2,1 upgraded machine?
<Al2O3> I'm running osx on an old hardware
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<Al2O3> the lappy I'm not running anything on yet.
<Al2O3> sorry for the confusion if so.
<Al2O3> burning image while on old hardware with old osx
<Al2O3> installing haiku on lappy
<Al2O3> via the burned usb stick.
<Skipp_OSX> oh nvm then, I thought you hacked 10.6.8 on there
<Al2O3> lol, nope.
<Skipp_OSX> ok nvm then
<Al2O3> thought that is where you were
<Skipp_OSX> not for many years now
<Al2O3> if that was the case, I'd likely just enjoy osx on that lappy :)
<Al2O3> i haven't' done a crackintosh in decade/s.
<Al2O3> like maybe early 00s
<Al2O3> gave up on it.
<Skipp_OSX> yeah
<Al2O3> went back to old hardware and it just works great.
<Al2O3> dimms the lights, but hey.
<Al2O3> keeps the room warm.
<Al2O3> hey, got a question. 8 gb usb stick Im' about to blow away, has osx snow leopard on it. First I should make an bootabl iso from it to a HD. :)
<Al2O3> dd to the rescue I guess.
<Al2O3> just swap if of
<Skipp_OSX> FreeBSD says the driver is supported as of FreeBSD 9 or thereabouts so there's a good chance.
<Skipp_OSX> The re(4) driver supports RealTek ... RTL8111 based Fast Ethernet and Gigabit Ethernet adapters https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.0R/hardware/
<Skipp_OSX> Hardware database is prob out of date is all
<Al2O3> lets hope.
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<Al2O3> weird, bs=1M gets me back from dd 'bs: illegal numeric value'
<Al2O3> old dd surely, but weird it would puke on 1M
<Skipp_OSX> eh block size not that important anyway
<Al2O3> hay, using 256
<Al2O3> working now.
<Skipp_OSX> I guess it doesn't like the M part, 1024
<Skipp_OSX> but whatever, that barely matters
<Al2O3> will try 1024
<Al2O3> yep, 1024 works.
<Al2O3> TY
<Skipp_OSX> you welcome
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57419] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=2174e23fcb62+%5Eba4ed24acc17
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 2174e23fcb62 - HaikuDepot : New Parser Generation Script
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<Al2O3> writing to the usb stick now.
<Al2O3> 1-2 hours later … I'll try and install via usb boot on the lappy.
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<augiedoggie> 1024 is probably bytes, so you're doing 1k blocks
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<BrunoSpr> hello
<Al2O3> BrunoSpr: howdie
<Al2O3> BrunoSpr: you looking to install, run, or otherwise use haiku?
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+5/-5/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/9959e96313d0...0ff224e0ee86
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 0ff224e - qt5: bump version
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<coolcoder613_32> Good morning
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/0ff224e0ee86...2caf7db87e7b
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 2caf7db - qt5: switch to python3
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<Skipp_OSX> hehe I think BrunoSpr knows how to run and use Haiku
<Skipp_OSX> (veteran user)
<Skipp_OSX> Al2O3 you get Haiku installed on your Lenovo yet?
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<BrunoSpr> yes for sure
<BrunoSpr> Thank you anyway maybe you are a developer and can help us with some features Haiku needs
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<Skipp_OSX> icon always on the very left, highlights whatever the first column is, in this case the size column.
<Skipp_OSX> Tracker doesn't seem to work very well unless Name is the first column.
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