ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hello zard
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<zard> Hello coolcoder613_mac :)
* zard is half-afk
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<coolcoder613_mac> Something pretty unusual happened today; I found a BASIC interpeter, written in Rust, which I had not heard of.
<zard> So you know BASIC?
<coolcoder613_mac> Yes
<coolcoder613_mac> I've done a bit of QBASIC...
<zard> The most BASIC-like language I know is assembly ;)
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<scanty> zard, no offense, but that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day. BAISC and Asssembly are nothing alike. You either don't know any assembly, or BASIC, or both.
<scanty> BASIC*
<coolcoder613_mac> scanty: BASIC is very different, but semantics are a little similar
<zard> Ha ha :). As you can see, I've never programmed in BASIC. But doesn't BASIC rely off of gotos instead of for/if statements?
<coolcoder613_mac> No
<scanty> no it has those
<scanty> and loops
<scanty> and whiles
<zard> Ah, nevermind then, BASIC is quite different
<zard> Does it at least have the goto statement?
<scanty> yes
<zard> Flexibility... or else "goto considered harmful" :D
<scanty> goto has it's uses in C/C++
<coolcoder613_mac> look at this: http://0x0.st/Hw7J.BAS
<coolcoder613_mac> (generic version)
<coolcoder613_mac> And this: http://0x0.st/HJbH.BAS
<zard> mmu_man: Nice :)
<zard> coolcoder613_mac: Yeah, basic is quite different from assembly after all
<zard> Goodbye all :)
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<BrunoSpr> hi all
<coolcoder613_mac> Hi
<BrunoSpr> anyone an idea what version I need to install to use node.js?
<BrunoSpr> hi coolcoder613_mac
<BrunoSpr> bcs there are 4 versions at HaikuDepot
<BrunoSpr> and another 4 devel ones
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<BrunoSpr> Just to test the server which Version does likely work?
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<BrunoSpr> ah ok it works!
<BrunoSpr> I just tried nodejs20
<BrunoSpr> not sure if I need the dev tools for learning it
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<coolcoder613_mac> Hello Begasus
<coolcoder613_mac> I'm trying to port cppyy
<Begasus> Hello coolcoder613_mac, how's that going?
<Begasus> Maybe I should try if I get this up and running with current KDE framework :) https://ibb.co/sRqfrpf
<Begasus> both buildmasters down :/
<Begasus> afk (dogs)
<diver> morning Begasus, there is a script which can help with that https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/blob/master/kde-frameworks/bump-kde-frameworks.sh
<diver> just don't run it twice or things would explode :P
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<Begasus> every time I open it, my balance decreases :P
* coolcoder613_mac is a little mystifeid by that comment
<Begasus> mystifeid? (my English is probably bad here) :)
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<coolcoder613_mac> mystified
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<coolcoder613_mac> botifico, quit?
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<Begasus> silensed :)
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<Begasus> k, need to boot into 64bit for this, no qt5webengine on 32bit
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<TmTFx> Hi folks! I've created a ticket because Haiku handles the time-attribute in a wrong manner :) it's also different from x86 an x64 arches.
<TmTFx> But I would like to ask another question: why in some readonly path Tracker shows date-time differently? some files have a long datetime format like " 19 Novembar 2020 01:25:55" and some have this representation "10/09/2018 22:30"
<TmTFx> the latter is the default on home dir
<Begasus> just closed down 32bit so can't check there, here on 64bit they show the same?
<Begasus> but maybe something changed in the nightlies
<TmTFx> I'm on 64bit I've opened /boot/system/develop/headers/os/support and Url.h and String.h has the latter format, the other files the first format
<TmTFx> the parent has all dirs listed with short fortmat except opengl
<TmTFx> (I'm on a localized Haiku)
<TmTFx> the same happens on x86 (not exacty the same but quite the same files). Does it depend on pkgs?
<Begasus> ah, now I see it too, never noticed :)
<Begasus> biab
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<TmTFx> I changed my localization tu USA an the representation is more consistent. It seems that November dates (and maybe some other dates... September, others?) are shorter but still written in letters as Nov 23 etc.. if needed this difference between dates, this is nicer than having a long string format as "23 di Novembar dal 2023..." and "23/11/2023" as in my localization... For example in italian it's consistent on all dates!
<TmTFx> I have to go to work, but if this is a translation matter please let me know on discuss... Maybe the dates format should be changed accordingly
<TmTFx> I'm TmTFx in discuss
<TmTFx> I think it's a matter of string lenght so when it's too long the shorter is used
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<jn> the best format, in my opinion is YYYY-MM-DD, e.g. 2023-11-28 for today
<jn> it has a consistent order of significance from big to small (unlike american date formats), and it allows for lexicographic sorting
<jn> ah, but TmTFx is gone
<phschafft> how I love those dates that are given as 1/2/3 and no order at all. I mean, could only be 3! different dates ;)
<phschafft> please also don't forget about the timezone thingy. that makes it very hard for me to work with data later on. as a general rule I suggest to always use UTC and convert from lokal time.
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<jn> if you need reliable timestamps, yes. formatted UTC, or something like TAI64 (https://cr.yp.to/libtai/tai64.html)
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<jn> or, if it's local time, add the timezone name (but that causes problems during summer/winter time change, because then 2:00-2:59 occur twice in the same night, at least how it's done in germany)
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<Habbie> CET/CEST :>
<jn> ah, right, the name changes along with it
<jn> Europe/Berlin would have the problem, but CET or CEST would not
<Habbie> yeah
<Habbie> but nobody will get it right anyway
<phschafft> you can also give the absolute offset as per ISO.
<phschafft> but that all pushes the rules onto the reader. if you convert to UTC on the data source side the render can again just do things like sort.
<phschafft> if the timestamp contains something else the reader again needs to apply that before every operation.
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<Begasus> looks like kmymoney can still be build with current frameworks :)
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<_-Caleb-_> hi all
<Begasus> Hello _-Caleb-_
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<Begasus> bugger ... Warning: POLICY ERROR: no matching provides "cmd:qmltime" for "bin/qmltime"
<_-Caleb-_> Hi Begasus :-)
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<Begasus> jikes, make docs in INSTALL :/
<Begasus> doesn't really matter on small projects, but like Qt5 it's kinda big to rebuild the docs ...
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<Anarchos> SDL backends don't mix well with RemoteDesktop
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<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/2caf7db87e7b...c2567b326146
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus c2567b3 - qt5, revbump for missing command (#9795)
<Begasus> let's see if this triggers the buildmasters ...
<Begasus> nope :/
<Anarchos> Begasus hello
<Begasus> Hi Anarchos :)
<Begasus> lol wondered why kmymoney was in English on the other laptop (system language still English there) :)
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<Anarchos> Begasus did you see my port of interlisp/medley ?
<Begasus> Anarchos, think I saw a screenshot passing by earlier/yesterday?
<Anarchos> Begasus yes this one exactly :)
<andreasdr[m]> Hi there.
<Begasus> arrr andreasdr[m] :)
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<andreaa72> hello, problem with lazarus and ld ...
<andreaa72> warning: /boot/system/develop/lib/crtn.o: missing
<andreaa72> better :
<andreaa72> Error: /boot/system/bin/ld: warning: /boot/system/develop/lib/crtn.o: missing
<Begasus> an issue with gcc?
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<andreaa72> i have to go
<andreaa72> thanks
<Begasus> cu later
<andreaa72> cu
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<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/c2567b326146...182249662a61
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 1822496 - kcalc, revbump, create symlink to be used for kmymoney (#9798)
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<Anarchos> how to use the stpncpy() function from libiberty in my own programs ?
<Anarchos> it seems string.h doesn't have it
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<andreasdr[m]> Begasus: :DDD
<andreasdr[m]> Whats going on?
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<Begasus> andreasdr[m], building qtwebengine atm :)
<Begasus> with updated qt5
<Begasus> not sure why it didn't launch the build last time, now it's up and running :)
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<Guest8454> Hello?
<phschafft> hm?
<Guest8454> Hey there, this is Aristotelis from Greece
<Guest8454> Haven't used irc for an incredibly long time
<Guest8454> Just trying to connect with the haiku community
* phschafft nods slowly.
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<jn> welcome, please set your nick name with /nick
<jn> so you don't appear as Guest8454
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<waddlesplash> augiedoggie: if you observe the behavior on VMware -- where do you see it?
<waddlesplash> besides thumbnail
<augiedoggie> that's the only place i see it, i didn't really look into the problem
<waddlesplash> ok
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<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 4 commits to master [+5/-5/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/9e758508a1ad...95d7243c21db
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] korli c4f7122 - sip: bump version
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] korli b88f295 - pyqt_builder: bump version
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 77609d2 - pyqt5_sip: bump version
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 95d7243 - pyqt5: bump version
<Begasus> kallisti5[m], no way to reach the restart button I suppose? :)
<Begasus> what's up with nielx? haven't seen him around in a while
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<Begasus> nice catch jmairboeck :) will be for tomorrow (first the other 2 need to be merged/build)
<jmairboeck> np, Begasus! I didn't test anything, just lurking around Github as usual ;)
<Begasus> np, any help there is appreceated
<Begasus> guess it's ready for a spin drive :) https://ibb.co/sRqfrpf
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<Begasus> pushed the change, the other one is still building so got the time atm
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<kallisti5[m]> Begasus: ahh. They're still offline. It wasn't clear from the UI. Thought time was "last communicated" time
<kallisti5[m]> yeah... i don't know. They're both offline. Maybe it's time to move them elsewhere
<kallisti5[m]> Begasus: sent an email
<andreasdr[m]> Begasus: Nice.
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<Begasus> kallisti5[m], where too?
<kallisti5[m]> mmlr
<Begasus> k, let me dig up his mail address :)
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<Begasus> he's hidden it well it seems, send a note to the default mail address
<Begasus> kallisti5[m], on moving them, that's up to the Inc. I guess :)
<kallisti5[m]> *i sent an email
<Begasus> [17479/21270] almost there :P
<Begasus> k, posted an issue also
<Begasus> afk ...
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57420] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=53bc9ad035bc+%5E2174e23fcb62
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 53bc9ad035bc - bfs: Reduce potential for garbage value ingestion
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<Lunovus> If I want to run Haiku virtually on a Win11 host, what virtualization solution should I choose: VirtualBox or Hyper-V?
<augiedoggie> vmware would be my first choice, virtualbox is probably my last choice
<waddlesplash> there are some people who run Haiku on Hyper-V
<waddlesplash> there are some settings you have to apply I'm told but I don't know what they are
<augiedoggie> although i had troubles with haiku running the latest vmware, they changed something in their EFI :/
<jmairboeck> it doesn't run very good on Hyper-V though: you have to use the legacy network adapter, the mouse wheel doesn't work, and changing the screen resolution throws a "general system error" (IIRC)
<Lunovus> Can the free VMware Wokstation player run Haiku fine?
<augiedoggie> probably, i see people on the forums using the free versions
<Lunovus> I'd love to use Haiku on "bare metal", but me playing around with GPT and Windows 11 has probably f*cked up my EFI boot process somehow (I guess)
<Lunovus> But since I de-installed VirtualBox to install Win11, I can probably also try a new virtual-thingie also
<Lunovus> OK, I see there is a fairly new guide on this available too, so why not
<Lunovus> I guess I can't debug any problems with my Realtek sound chip in Haiku there?
<Al2O3> if this USB dd command burn would ever finish, I might try and install it on 'bare metal'
<jmairboeck> It looks like both of my Hyper-V tickets are actually duplicates of older ones. I should have searched a bit better when reporting them ...
<augiedoggie> depends on the problem i guess, if you have no sound at all then you may need to install the opensound package
<Lunovus> Problem is SPDIF-output wasn't working (on bare metal), haven't tested the "speaker-thingie" connectors
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<Lunovus> Would SPDIF-output work in VMware?
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<Lunovus> Whoa, commercial licenses of VMware are costly, even with 30% off cyber week deals
<Al2O3> yes they are.
<Al2O3> isn't there some freeware VM you can use now that works just as good?
<Al2O3> or studentware, or non commercial opensourced stuff?
<Lunovus> For playing around with Haiku I could use the free player version, but I'd like too do other (commercial) stuff too, so that would require a commercial license
<Lunovus> Better the devil you know then, I guess, so I try VirtualBox (again), still have some VMs from that floating around on my system
<Lunovus> A few more (hopefully) won't hurt
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<coolcoder613_32> Good morning
<elix> My 8470p seems to greatly appreciate haiku
<Lunovus> Good evenening
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<elix> The only app missing is shortwave which i would port if I knew how
<coolcoder613_32> elix: I like porting things
<coolcoder613_32> Give me a link and i'll see what i can do
<coolcoder613_32> I already found it
<elix> The online radio app, not email
<augiedoggie> probably the gnome app since that app is closed source
<Lunovus> Ah
<elix> Yep
<elix> It has this unique feature that caches tracks and can be downloaded
<Anarchos> seems time to another PR on haiku : https://github.com/Interlisp/maiko/pull/485#discussion_r1408172728. What a maze of little PR leading to other PR to...
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<coolcoder613_32> Hmm... Do we have GTK4?
<waddlesplash> no
<waddlesplash> gtk3
<Anarchos> waddlesplash i saw your comments on my kill_other_thread PR. I am working on it.
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: I see the github PR you link, I'll add some comments there
<coolcoder613_32> elix: I guess shortwave is going to stay un-ported until GTK4 gets ported
<elix> Fair enough coolcoder613_32
<Anarchos> waddlesplash be careful, they seem rather rigid about POSIX :)
<waddlesplash> yes I see
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<scanty> if we have xlib and gtk2 (apparently!) would it be possible to port GNU Backgammon? http://www.gnubg.org/
<Habbie> try it!
<waddlesplash> we don't have gtk23
<waddlesplash> *gtk2
<waddlesplash> but, making a port should not be hard
<Habbie> ah
<waddlesplash> it may require reviving a lot of my hacks to gtk's x11 keyboard handling code which I wrote for gtk3
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/95d7243c21db...614485f118db
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] waddlesplash 614485f - ponpokodiff: retry build
<scanty> i see.
<Anarchos> waddlesplash anyway, copying the stpncpy from libiberty to our libroot strncpy.cpp , is just 6 lines :)
<waddlesplash> libiberty is GNU and under a copyleft license
<waddlesplash> I am going to copy musl's
<Anarchos> waddlesplash is copyleft licence a problem for haiku ?
<waddlesplash> we strongly prefer non-copyleft
* Anarchos don't know much about licence differences
<Lunovus> Copyleft = if you make changes to copyleft source, you have to make it available to individual somehow
<Lunovus> Non-copyleft = if you make changes to non-copyleft source, you can keep the changes all to yourself if you want to
<waddlesplash> it's got an optimized version yes
<Lunovus> If you include copyleft stuff into on of your projects, it may lead to the whole project getting open source
<Anarchos> Lunovus but if i just copy code of one function, without modify it ?
<Lunovus> Depends if you incorporate it somehow, or just link to it at runtime
<Lunovus> That's were things get complicated. My version was a bare bones version making copyleft stuff look bad
<Lunovus> Other version: Non-copyleft, you can steal any source code and sell it
<Lunovus> Copyleft, if you steal our source code, we may sue you about making your source code OS
<Lunovus> Still sounds bad. I think i don't like the copyleft licenses myself...
<Lunovus> The non-copyleft licenses are just most of the time way easier to handle if you don't want to make everything OS
<Anarchos> Lunovus got it.
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: does Interlisp work with Xlibe?
<Anarchos> waddlesplash well i could compile, but i didn't know how to launch the X server...
<waddlesplash> you don't need to start an X server
<waddlesplash> just start a program that needs X11
<waddlesplash> xlibe takes care of the rest
<coolcoder613_32> (It is not an X server)
<waddlesplash> (and it doesn't need an Xserver)
<Begasus> coolcoder613[m], have a recipe for GTK4, but it crashes with the demo :P
<Anarchos> it complained about X not running. Anyway i tried SDL and it worked. I will look to X again when they will accept hthe SDL patch :)
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: message please?
* Anarchos is not sure that interlisp/medley is a high priority :)
<Anarchos> waddlesplash let me compile it again for X
<Begasus> [18261/21270] (first 17K went pretty fast, now it's slow, hope it's done by tomorrow morning)
<Begasus> signing off, cu peeps!
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* Anarchos would prefer to be able to finish https://review.haiku-os.org/c/+/7105
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: I think there are a LOT of assumptions we are going to have to modify
<waddlesplash> we may have to just change the thread IDs
<Anarchos> waddlesplash i tried to change thread ids in my patch, but when i test it in qemu, i got KDL in thread_at_exit
<waddlesplash> that's what I'd expect
<waddlesplash> and there's other problems that will crop up
<waddlesplash> it may be easier just to patch whatever application needs this functionality
<Anarchos> waddlesplash i could'nt understand why.
<waddlesplash> why not take that approach? i.e. just edit whatever application is doing this
<Anarchos> waddlesplash they just use fork/execve. I do'nt know how to patch that.
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<Anarchos> waddlesplash medley compiling with X choked on XDestroySubwindows
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<waddlesplash> Anarchos: I probably do
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<waddlesplash> Anarchos: report?
<Anarchos> /Data1/INFORMATIQUE/maiko/bin/../src/xinit.c:115:(.text+0x107): undefined reference to `XDestroySubwindows'
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<coolcoder613_32> Something wants stricmp and strnicmp
<coolcoder613_32> Where would they be?
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: aha
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<waddlesplash> appears we do not have them
<waddlesplash> but they should be equivalent to strcasecmp
<Anarchos> waddlesplash that's what xref.landonf.org show in HttpUrlConnection.cpp
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<waddlesplash> yep
<Anarchos> waddlesplash what am i missing for XDestroySubwindows
<coolcoder613_32> Its okay, i just had to add an || defined(__HAIKU__) in def.h
<coolcoder613_32> it already had an #ifdef UNIX
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<coolcoder613_32> Any idea why it won't close?
<coolcoder613_32> It uses SDL2
<coolcoder613_32> The latest digger does not close when in press the close button on the titlebar, nor when i ^C it
<coolcoder613_32> I have observed this in the 2002 version of digger, but only when sound is enabled
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<BrunoSpr> hello all
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: can you send me build commands?
<waddlesplash> so I can compile and test this myself
<B2IA> (Butler) Welcome to BeShare.agmsmith.ca.
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<Anarchos> waddlesplash i sent that to you by private msg.
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<Al2O3> BrunoSpr: hello
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57421] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=5a66a9296903+%5E53bc9ad035bc
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 5a66a9296903 - BColorControl: right-align text box values
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: I only ever implemented methods that applications actually used. Nothing yet used that one so I didn't implement it
<coolcoder613_32> Do we have X11/Xft/Xft.h?
<waddlesplash> no, I didn't implement XFT in Xlibe
<coolcoder613_32> (I am building Motif)
<Anarchos> coolcoder613_32 good luck with this rabbit hole...
<coolcoder613_32> (So i can compile NCSA Mosaic)
<coolcoder613_32> (To end all of Haiku's browser problems)
<coolcoder613_32> ;)
<Anarchos> waddlesplash that's why i tried the SDL port, and it worked
<Al2O3> now that is a good one.
<Al2O3> who's got a NS/OS emulator running on Haiku?
<waddlesplash> coolcoder613_32: motif doesn't work on xlibe
<coolcoder613_32> Why not?
<waddlesplash> or at least it didn't last I checked
<waddlesplash> because motif is a twisted mess of a toolkit
<waddlesplash> it's a torture test even for real X11
<Al2O3> Would be neat to run WorldWideWeb.app emulated on Haiku.
<coolcoder613_32> waddlesplash: maybe Lesstif?
<waddlesplash> coolcoder613_32: hmm, I never tried Lesstif. But it looks unmaintained
<Anarchos> waddlesplash if you don't have any more questions for me, i will go to sleep
<waddlesplash> Anarchos: none at the moment. good night!
<Anarchos> waddlesplash oh you forgot to tell me how to patch fork/execve in child
<Anarchos> just do execve in parent rather than in child ?
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<waddlesplash> Anarchos: no, execve should be in child. I will have to look at the app to see how to patch it.
<coolcoder613_32> And...
<coolcoder613_32> ./boot/system/develop/tools/x86/bin/../lib/gcc/i586-pc-haiku/13.2.0/../../../../i586-pc-haiku/bin/ld: cannot find -lfl: No such file or directory
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<coolcoder613_32> I managed to build lesstif
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<coolcoder613_32> Al2O3: I'm compiling Previous