ChanServ changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<ponies> is asahi alarm supported here? they seem to only have a matrix channel
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<PaulFertser> ponies: there's asahi-alt IRC channel for discussions of everything but Asahi Fedora Remix.
<chaos_princess> not really, this is more about fedora or whatever applies to all distros, alarm is an external project
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<ponies> PaulFertser: Thanks
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<runxiyu_> LarstiQ: It's a configuration issue. Fedora switched to a more secure OpenSSL configuration, but my school's WiFi AP uses insecure hash algorithms
<runxiyu_> Compatibility
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<monthebiff> so off my unsuccessful attemps to run WoW, i thought i'd try and launch guild wars
<monthebiff> so far its launched... but slooooowwww
<monthebiff> (via steam)
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<technomagik> oh boy I am about to go down a rabbithole.. https://github.com/tenstorrent/tt-metal/issues/18296
<technomagik> I have an M1 macbook air, and an M2 macbook pro, it seems like both of those are pretty well supported
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<monthebiff> guild wars ran, but couldnt seem to coax the frame rate up at all
<monthebiff> shame - directx9 according to the in game settings menu
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<technomagik> What does "PCIe (GE)" mean on the support page? How would adding PCI devices over thunderbolt links be supported, does that require a lot of reverse engineering of the controller?
<chaos_princess> GE is for real pcie slots in the mac pro
<chaos_princess> and yes, it would require some more RE to do pcie over thunderbolt
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<technomagik> So as a way to do development, is it possible to use APIs provided by Apple in MacOS to bridge a thunderbolt connected PCI device through Apple's hypervisor interfaces? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/hypervisor/
<chaos_princess> i do not think macos supports pcie passthrough
<technomagik> Or run M1N1 as a hypervisor guest
<chaos_princess> no, thats not how it works, macos is run as a guest, and m1n1 as host
<technomagik> ooh, and m1n1 passes all the pci stuff to MacOS?
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<chaos_princess> yes, m1n1 steals one usb port and iirc thats basically it, everything else is mostly transparent
<technomagik> so... this would be rube goldberg, but could I use https://developer.apple.com/documentation/kernel/hardware_families/pci/implementing_a_pcie_kext_for_a_thunderbolt_device to somehow get a thunderbolt PCI device back to a linux kernel?
<chaos_princess> what are you even trying to do
<chaos_princess> which device?
<technomagik> Tenstorrent AI accelerator
<chaos_princess> ok, but, like, why tho?
<chaos_princess> if you are interested in doing RE on tb, do you not have a simpler pcie device?
<chaos_princess> and gpus and similar are a bad idea, there are missing features in apple's pci-e tb controller that make using gpus next to impossible w/o dirty hacks
<technomagik> well my current understand of the Tenstorrent driver is it's mostly just mapping a bunch of memory into /dev/tenstorrent/0 , but I have not looked in great detail at the driver code
<chaos_princess> yea, that's a recipe for triggering this specific issue
<technomagik> can you point to any docs on what's missing in the controller
<chaos_princess> controller can't map memory behind it as normal memory, only as device memory, and gpus tend to have a bunch of userspace that expects it to work
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<technomagik> yeah this kind of stuff is sort of where I gave up on apple hardware and started a Don Quixote quest to replicate the Mac G4 cube with open source hardware
<chaos_princess> that's not just apple, i think almost all arm hardware has similar issues in their pcie controllers for some reason
<technomagik> but damn, it's cool it seems like I could actually run linux on an M1/M2 mac again as a daily driver
<chaos_princess> raspi and stuff also suffers from it
<technomagik> okay how is this working then.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyR7iCS7gNI
<chaos_princess> insane amount of mostly non-upstreamable hacks
<tpw_rules> and not really demanding much of a not really demanding card
<chaos_princess> like, "trap the invalid accesses and emulate them", levels of hacks
<technomagik> That's unfortunate. I had TuxRacer running on AMD gpus with SiFive cores without a lot of trouble. I have not replicated it with a BeagleV-fire yet
<technomagik> well, something seems to be functional on a Raspi.. https://github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/issues/564#issuecomment-2682879335
<technomagik> okay if it's just trapping alignment, I could imagine fixing all unaligned accesses in the Tenstorrent driver a lot easier than a full GPU driver stack
<chaos_princess> https://github.com/Coreforge/linux/commit/aea600022585f02fa1efec84bea5696907890049 - see, they are doing exactly what i have said
<chaos_princess> tbh, if all of tenstorrent's stack is open source the solution could be "just fix all alignment issues, lol"
<technomagik> this is the way
<chaos_princess> still not great as device memory is uncached, but at least it will work
<chaos_princess> full gpu driver stack it is strictly impossible
<chaos_princess> as closed source software that uses the drivers can map gpu buffers and write there
<chaos_princess> as in from app code, not driver code
<technomagik> Once I got used to running linux on powerpc where I had to compile everything from source I started avoiding any application I don't have the source for
<chaos_princess> raptor?
<technomagik> PowerMac 7100/80 with MkLinux
<technomagik> and then G4s and Power5s
<chaos_princess> thats a choice, but why not
<technomagik> It is the only sane choice in an insane world :P
<technomagik> But here I am still typing from an M2 mac running OSX ....
<chaos_princess> if you have money to burn, check out talos workstations from raptorcs
<chaos_princess> though beware, their community is mostly the kind of people who think bitcoin is a good idea
<technomagik> I mean, the satoshi C++ code as a reference design for a post-capitalism consensus ledger could be pretty interesting but talking about altering the holy deflationary monetary policy has gotten me excommunicated from several places..
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<ponies> 'post-capitalism' excuse me what the