ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<trungnt2910[m]> <tqh1> "Is this different than cross-..." <- It is.
<trungnt2910[m]> Take this program for example:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/eRnvUzimFvylMGcLBcEDjsDH)
<trungnt2910[m]> * Take this program for example:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QchPOaFbORbaHTuoapIPUQsU)
<trungnt2910[m]> When compiled using the native (or emulated) compiler, it runs well.
<trungnt2910[m]> But when cross-compiled, exception handling is broken (it is also broken when running natively on Haiku).
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
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<netpositive> morning Begasus
<Begasus> morning netpositive
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<stickman681> I'm trying to figure out why hrev56272 is the last build that is able to ./configure the buildtools for x86_64.
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<stickman681> hrev56278 and up will hang/crash.
<trungnt2910[m]> There was a recent commit to the buildtools repo before hrev56276.
<stickman681> It's been killing me. :-) I'm able to ./configure and build the current tree on linux and on older hrevs.
<stickman681> but I couln't see anything in the commit messages that looked likely...
<stickman681> unless the BPlusTree.cpp changes do something really weird?
<stickman681> it looks like those are only for XFS anyway...
<trungnt2910[m]> The buildtools repo.
<stickman681> ahhh.. sorry.
<trungnt2910[m]> Something that passes the `--eh-frame-hdr` flag to the linker.
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<stickman681> ok, I'm lost. why would it still work on the older hrev? or did I just get lucky?
<cocobean> hrev56288 tested?
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<trungnt2910[m]> If the new buildtools isn't broken, then I don't know. Something happened to Haiku.
<cocobean> Put it in a ticket and they'll handle it.
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<trungnt2910[m]> `haiku_loader` in a vchroot environment running g++ with fully functional headers and libraries.
<x512[m]> kernel_x86_64_hyclone_monica_Linux :)
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<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "kernel_x86_64_hyclone_monica_Lin..." <- Yep
<trungnt2910[m]> Hyclone is the project
<trungnt2910[m]> Monika (MONItor_Kernel_Access) is the subsystem that manages syscalls.
<trungnt2910[m]> Linux is the host machine.
<x512[m]> It may be able to run UserlandVM (Haiku riscv64 application -> UserlandVM -> Hyclone -> Linux).
<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "It may be able to run UserlandVM..." <- Might be possible to run gcc if I have a riscv64 sysroot.
<Begasus> extrowerk, you linked a site where you could look into libraries and the soname changes (compat against prior version), I lost the link :)
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<bparker_> Begasus: I have logs but no idea what I'm looking for.
<Begasus> logs are online bparker_ ;) but it has been a while and I lost my bookmarks
<Begasus> hmm should have some logs from Vision also
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<Begasus> libgit2 tests running, system lags ...
<Begasus> 12 failed out of 374, not to bad (considering no prior tests had been included)
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<Begasus> libgit2 had dependencies for libssh and libiconv, but seems they were not activated (needs setting to ON in BUILD)
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56292] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=1f26a521ac81+%5Eabc159e3fdb9
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 1f26a521ac81 - kernel/arm64/int: add missing header
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<trungnt2910[m]> bash on haiku on bash on ubuntu on Windows
<trungnt2910[m]> (But it's still a bit funky)
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<trungnt2910[m]> I wonder, why isn't the prompt working?
<trungnt2910[m]> bash just opens something blank, there isn't any `~>` prompt.
<trungnt2910[m]> Is it handled by bash or by the Terminal app?
<phschafft> hm?
<trungnt2910[m]> (oh, and not on Haiku but on the emulator).
<trungnt2910[m]> So basically I'm asking how does the prompt (`~>` or `/path/to/current/working/directory>`) on the Terminal work.
<trungnt2910[m]> Does the Terminal app display it or does bash show the prompt itself.
<phschafft> generally speaking the prompt is part of the shell.
<phschafft> while the terminal is just a adapter for terminal based programs to run in a graphic env.
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<Begasus> Cooling down for the pups :) https://ibb.co/5TtcWvN
<phschafft> :))
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<mmu_man> Live at DebConf22: Wookey on ARM port update https://debconf22.debconf.org/schedule/venue/2/
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<x512[m]> mmu_man: How is it related to Haiku?
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<mmu_man> well he goes on the new architecture features, some we might want to have a look at
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<mmu_man> and possibly the boot aspect too
<x512[m]> Boot aspect is simple: use EFI.
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<mmu_man> ugh :p
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<mmu_man> eh, GCC defaulting to Neon on ARM32 and using it before the check, lol
<mmu_man> They are still discussing 64bit time_t for ARM32 :)
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<trungnt2910[m]> Bash with a prompt.
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<Skipp_OSX> are you running Haiku's runtime_loader on Linux?
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<Skipp_OSX> I see, you are running on HyClone server
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<trungnt2910[m]> <Skipp_OSX> "are you running Haiku's runtime_..." <- It's a binary that's compiled from 90% Haiku's runtime_loader object.
<trungnt2910[m]> The rest of it is some patched objects to handle syscalls and TLS>
<trungnt2910[m]> s/runtime_loader/runtime\_loader/, s/>/./
<trungnt2910[m]> * It's a binary that's compiled from 90% of Haiku's runtime\_loader objects.
<trungnt2910[m]> The rest of it is some patched objects to handle syscalls and TLS.
<trungnt2910[m]> <Skipp_OSX> "I see, you are running on..." <- HyClone server is just a kernel server that stores some states that should have been stored by the kernel.
<trungnt2910[m]> The code that loads, maps and executes ELF files is the same as Haiku's runtime_loader.
<Skipp_OSX> oh so then you are running Haiku's runtime_loader on Linux, cool
<trungnt2910[m]> Skipp_OSX: Yeah, the goal is to share as much code with Haiku as possible.
<trungnt2910[m]> * It's a binary that's compiled from 90% of Haiku's runtime\_loader objects.
<trungnt2910[m]> The rest of it are some patched objects to handle syscalls and TLS.
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<x512[m]> Serverless Haiku Wayland implementation is running with stubbed protocols implementation:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oIAyvEzfjebHEVJKMWLKRxQl)
<x512[m]> * Serverless Haiku Wayland implementation is running with stubbed protocols implementation:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FaTPdGLnfIVNBMWbBqaHgMUb)
<Skipp_OSX> ooooooo
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<x512[m]> wl_ips: Wayland in-proc server. Wayland server run as add-n in client process instead of separate process.
<win8linux[m]> What part of the Haiku stack will this fit into?
<x512[m]> It can be used to run GTK 3+ applications, Chromium and other Wayland based applications.
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<x512[m]> Similar to Xlibe but for Wayland.
<trungnt2910[m]> Chromium, huh.
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<waddlesplash> doesn't Chromium still use GTK?
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<x512[m]> Chromium have Wayland backend.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56293] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=5e596efecfa9+%5E1f26a521ac81
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 5e596efecfa9 - Refactor touchpad movement generation by migrating MovementMaker to userland.
<waddlesplash> x512[m]: yes, but doesn't it use GTK in addition? it also has an X11 backend too, but...
<waddlesplash> anyway we already have Chromium via QtWebEngine but it crashes excessively and nobody's figured out why
<waddlesplash> I expect the real Chromium would do the same...
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56294] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=75e66d613596+%5E5e596efecfa9
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 75e66d613596 - Tracker: Improve repeated apps in Open with... menu
<x512[m]> fd and epoll is fully wiped, BLooper is used for "server" loop.
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<x512[m]> waddlesplash: I catched another global freeze that seems related to OpenBSD drivers.
<waddlesplash> okay, did you try any of the things I suggested to try and narrow it down?
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<waddlesplash> what's this?
<x512[m]> Freeze in app_server event loop.
<waddlesplash> is this the problem seen where it goes to 100% CPU?
<waddlesplash> but if it's in a mutex_lock, how can it be using 100% CPU?
<x512[m]> It seems no 100% CPU.
<x512[m]> It may be even different problem. Full system freeze caused by OpenBSD drivers and single application freeze caused by scheduler changes.
<waddlesplash> ok. so this is the full system freeze you mean?
<x512[m]> Yes, KDL when whole GUI stopped.
<waddlesplash> OK
<waddlesplash> please determine what is currently holding the lock that app_server is waiting on
<x512[m]> I never got single app freeze.
<waddlesplash> i.e. "threads | grep 1057" then "mutex 0x...."
<waddlesplash> it should show "holder: <thread id>", get a backtrace of this thread
<x512[m]> KDL session is lost. USB stall -> no keyboard.
<waddlesplash> :/
<waddlesplash> well, you had keyboard when you took the screenshot, yes?
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<x512[m]> Yes, but after some time (5+ minues) it show USB stall and keyboard don't work anymore.
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<waddlesplash> ah
<waddlesplash> ok. well, if you can reproduce it, I need the backtrace of the thread that currently holds the lock everything is waiting on
<waddlesplash> likely we need better deadlock detection in the kernel...
<waddlesplash> at least under KDL anyway
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<waddlesplash> x512[m]: ^^ here, extremely naive deadlock detector
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<waddlesplash> x512[m]: ah, you will need to delete the "does not exist" panic
<waddlesplash> won't boot otherwise
<waddlesplash> as some threads acquire locks during destruction
<x512[m]> Is it fine to acquire lock during destruction?
<waddlesplash> yes, it has to do that to destroy VMCaches
<waddlesplash> x512[m]: new version
<waddlesplash> probably this should be a KDL command however
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<x512[m]> Compiled GTK with Wayland backend.
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<x512[m]> * Attempting to run GTK:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uEBgeaaAEiKKSEtzfIFUGWdB)
<x512[m]> It attempts to use libdrm2 and EGL...
<trungnt2910[m]> Now this is the real bashonhaikuonubuntuonwindows.
<trungnt2910[m]> I still don't understand though, why is the prompt `bash-5.1$` instead of the real cwd.
<Skipp_OSX> x512 app_server crashed in the Window::MouseMoved() method trying to run View::ViewAt() and GTK crashed trying to load the cursor so it seems like missing cursor might be the problem causing both crashes.
<Skipp_OSX> trungnt2910[m] your bash prompt is set up in .bashrc, or .profile, .bash-profile
<x512[m]> Skipp_OSX: Stack trace?
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<Skipp_OSX> (the stack traces that you posted)
<x512[m]> I my case it is freeze, not crash.
<x512[m]> KDL is opened manually.
<Skipp_OSX> ok fair enough but it still seems to point to the problem being that it is not able to load the cursor (I think)
<x512[m]> My serverless Wayland is very incomplete, so it is expected to crash. It crashes because of missing callback in xdg_toplevel.
<Skipp_OSX> k
<x512[m]> It is about 2 day work.
<trungnt2910[m]> YESSSSS
<trungnt2910[m]> Sorry but I'm quite a noob at bash.
<trungnt2910[m]> But thanks for your help.
<x512[m]> trungnt2910: Have you tried to run Python? HaikuPorter is written in Python.
<Skipp_OSX> trungnt2910[m] .bashrc is probably the one you want to look at
<tqh> nice, btw whats our take on zsh vs bash these days ..
<Skipp_OSX> zsh has a nicer license, better features, but bash is still king for compatibility
<x512[m]> A lot of software probably hardcoded to Bash.
<tqh> Mac is on zsh, I think FreeBSD as well, and I havn't had issues with compability when using zsh..
<Skipp_OSX> seems that eventually we'll flush glibc, gcc, and bash down the toilet and switch to musl, clang, and zsh, but we're not there yet.
<tqh> That is why I am starting this discussion :)
<Skipp_OSX> Should be on the glass elevator hehe
<x512[m]> Not a part of BeAPI.
<tqh> It was discussed long ago, this is just a rehash :)
<Skipp_OSX> but since it was discussed a long time ago, we've managed to build a lot more stuff without using glibc and gcc
<trungnt2910[m]> <x512[m]> "trungnt2910: Have you tried to..." <- Maybe that's my next target.
<trungnt2910[m]> That is, after I clean up some stuff, document things a little bit, and then publish the source on GitHub (for anyone who's interested)
<x512[m]> Anybody want to fix/improve lld patch: https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/pull/4813?
<trungnt2910[m]> BTW, are there any Haiku syscall tests? I might be interested in running them as a CI on GitHub Actions.
<trungnt2910[m]> Skipp_OSX: Follow what Apple does eh?
<x512[m]> And switch to PE executable format :)
<trungnt2910[m]> PE is hell to parse.
<x512[m]> PE is very simple format.
<x512[m]> I made PE loaders and analyzers.
<trungnt2910[m]> Really? I created a C# library that parses PE, ELF and Mach-O, and IMO Mach-O is the simplest while PE is the most complicated.
<x512[m]> ELF is MUCH more difficult and its symbol resolving system is complex and fragile.
<x512[m]> What is complicated in PE?
<x512[m]> It have very trivial relocations and symbol resolution.
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<x512[m]> Note that BeOS R4 x86 (Haiku is BeOS reimplementation) used PE executables.
<tqh> Wouldn't we want to do something else if we switched that part?
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<x512[m]> Honestly I think that switching to PE may be not a good idea because it will likely complicate ports building. But it can be interesting experiment.
<Skipp_OSX> PE is tied to Metroworks compiler, even if Be used it on R4 x86, that's not a good reason that we should
<Skipp_OSX> but maybe there is a good reason, I don't have a strong preference
<x512[m]> Clang can be used to compile PEs. And it seems use ABI compatible to BeOS R4.
<x512[m]> At least C++ name mangling is compatible.
<tqh> So PE, ELF, COFF, any other formats?
<Skipp_OSX> so does that mean our runtime loader could be made to execute BeOS R4 apps? hehe
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<x512[m]> PE advantage is 2 level symbol resolving that avoid symbol name collision between libraries. PE allows to have 2 or more libraries with the same symbols in single process.
<x512[m]> Skipp_OSX: Yes. It can support both.
<Skipp_OSX> I ran into that with DevaCalc which had a PE binary, but of course it didn't run on Haiku. It was detected as an executable correctly though.
<x512[m]> But it will be hybrid build.
<Skipp_OSX> that's running on Haiku after I rebuilt it from source, but there are R3 binaries that could possibly be made to run
<tqh> Not likely R3, R4 and R5 was not that compatible with different API's
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<Skipp_OSX> file says: DevaCalc: PE32 executable Intel 80386, for MS Windows
<Skipp_OSX> And while it is not be for MS Winders but it is a PE binary that can be used to test
<x512[m]> You can disassemble it in IDA Pro free and it will show demangled names.
<x512[m]> It use Microsoft C++ ABI.
<x512[m]> Not sure about libc++.
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<Skipp_OSX> tqh: mach-o of course!
<x512[m]> Mach-O also have 2 level symbol lookup, so it have no problem with symbol conflicts.
<x512[m]> ELF is worst format in terms of ABI compatibility and heavy dynamic library usage.
<x512[m]> At first glance Mach-O looks complicated.
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<Vidrep_64> Are any of the devs going to be do any work on WebKit before the next release?
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<Vidrep_64> *doing
<Skipp_OSX> we're still trying to get people to build webkit, let alone work on it.
<Vidrep_64> Are you referring to WebKit 2 or legacy?
<Skipp_OSX> either or
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<Skipp_OSX> HaikuWebKit which is still v1 afaik
<Vidrep_64> HaikuWebKit 1.8.4 WebKit 614.1.20 has quite a few bug fixes and is noticably "snappier" than what's included in nightly builds
<Vidrep_64> However it crashes upon quit most of the time
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<Skipp_OSX> The short answer is no, nobody is going to do any work on WebKit before the next release.
<Vidrep_64> I don't mean WebKit 2, but legacy branch
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<Skipp_OSX> same answer
<PulkoMandy> for me the current web+ crashes on kit as well anyway so that's not even a regression
<PulkoMandy> I think I'll do the same as for the previous beta, do an update during the preparation of beta4 when the haikuports builders are running the latest haiku
<PulkoMandy> also I have to decide if I build it with curl, but that would probably require more testing to see if the cookie manager still works, if cookies are properly saved, etc
<x512[m]> GTK4 on Wayland reached main loop without crashes:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/qUUEOnqQtTjTaRifaTnhYiKm)
<x512[m]> * GTK4 on Wayland reached main loop without crashes:... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JGuYlJLrqkKWlnUoeUcKNHMQ)
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<Vidrep_64> PulkoMandy, it looks like we'll be using WebKitLegacy for the foreseeable future
<PulkoMandy> until someone gets webkit2 working. I would like to at least finish cleaning up and merging Rajagopalan's work before we give this code to another GSoC student
<PulkoMandy> unless someone else gets it working before that (and with clean code that I can review and merge)
<PulkoMandy> I have a bit more free time than usual during the summer (choir is on vacations so no rehearsals, and it's too hot to go outside ride my bicycle), so maybe I will have a look again in the next few weeks
<PulkoMandy> had other things I wanted to finish first
<Vidrep_64> PulkoMandy, as far as WebKit goes, it looks like you're still "it".
<PulkoMandy> mostly. Nephele and Madmax did some work too, and they did more in-depth things that require investigating and actually fixing problems
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<PulkoMandy> I'm just merging changes from WebKit at the moment
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<Vidrep_64> WebKit2 looks like a project more suited for a paid contract
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<PulkoMandy> I don't know, I think it's not that far off actually, it just needs a days or two of work to get it running again, but for me it has to be two fully uninterrupted days. A coding sprint could be enough maybe. But then there are more steps between just having it running and having it fully usable
<PulkoMandy> and reasonably fast
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<deadfwd[m]> Anyone else having issues with BeShare? Crashes on launch
<win8linux[m]> tqh: Personally, ZSH would be a better fit for Haiku with regards to user experience. Better autocompletion from the get-go and being able to use arrow keys in tab completion make the terminal more user-friendly.
<win8linux[m]> Fish would be even better in that regard, but it is an exotic shell and has many incompatibilities with most scripts.
<win8linux[m]> Majority of shell scripts assume Bash or at the very least, a Bourne-compatible shell.
<win8linux[m]> ZSH can be extended to have many of its features anyways, while still being a Bourne-compatible shell.
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<zdykstra> fish and bash coexist quite nicely - fish never tries to be /bin/sh, /bin/bash, /bin/dash, etc - so just put a proper shebang on your script and everything is fine
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<Skipp_OSX> so zsh would be a better choice
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<rennj> ibm rexx and amiga dos would be the better choice, only the amiga makes it possible https://imgur.com/H2OQ1Qx
<rennj> hmm ffmpeg on amiga
<rennj> 68060@100mhz feel the power
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<rennj> https://imgur.com/uGHLo23 need youtube-dl/yt-dlp
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