ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | | Nightlies: | Bugtracker: | SCM: | Logs: | Matrix: | XMPP:
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] nephele-gh 52de4ef - New recipe: diff-so-fancy (#7872)
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<ablyss> ketchup
<B2IA> (AGMS) Butler catsup 3
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<hexchat> Hi,
<hexchat> I would like to know it's too late to joine for haiku project(GSOC) ? And it's mainly for students? not for experience learner?
<augiedoggie> i don't think applications have even started for gsoc yet
<pairisto[m]> it is not late to join as proposals open march 20th and end april 4th
<hexchat> Aha, nice to hear i was confused with Mentoring organization application deadline which was on February 7 - 18:00 UTC.
<hexchat> But the thing is i'm not a consider to be a student. But i am highly self motivated computer enthusiast. I'm sure i'm eligible for this project.
<pairisto[m]> to answer your other question I believe that you also have to be a student but I am not 100% because the website just talks about students.
<augiedoggie> the rules have changed, it's anyone that's new to open source
<pairisto[m]> coolio
<pairisto[m]> * other question, I
<hexchat> As leaner i always consider myself `student` :)
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<pairisto[m]> where is the API documentation for the sockets/networking library for C++, NetworkInterface.h, and the net_* libraries? I found but I couldn't find any example code.
<augiedoggie> there is also some documentation for the new netservices kit
<pairisto[m]> thank you!
<augiedoggie> also the bebook has good documentation for things
<augiedoggie> but it doesn't include haiku specific things like the new netservices
<pairisto[m]> gotcha
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 08de181 - webkit_gtk: bump version
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<Begasus> 'lo peeps
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<Begasus> hi jmairboeck
<jmairboeck> Hi Begasus
<Begasus> did something change on buildmaster? some packages didn't got build, even though they should have ...
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<jmairboeck> I just noticed something: the lilypond documentation subpackages on 32bit are not "any" arch but x86_gcc2, doesn't this work to specify a different architecture for subpackages if secondaryArch is used? and if it is supported, what is the correct syntax? Does SECONDARY_ARCHITECTURES_doc etc. need to be set empty explicitly?
<jmairboeck> also, it seems msgfmt is missing in the 32 bit build, because only msgfmt-x86 is available probably. Would this work if I add cmd:msgfmt to BUILD_REQUIRES or would that conflict with the x86 version?
<jmairboeck> why do we have 3 versions of the gettext recipe?
<jmairboeck> the newest version (0.21) isn't enabled for gcc2, so would it make sense to not use $secondaryArchSuffix for its commands (and commandSuffix instead)? or would that break something?
<Begasus> °_O
<Begasus> Is it an issue if the docs isn't any arch jmairboeck ?
<jmairboeck> no, in practice it doesn't make a difference
<Begasus> SECONDARY_ARCHITECTURES_doc (don't think this will work)
<jmairboeck> as long as isn't done at least
<Begasus> that is indeed something we would have to deal with when it hits there
<jmairboeck> even then, it would only be an optimization
<Begasus> on gettext, I think only 1 primary and 1 secondary version is available for 32bit?
<jmairboeck> there are 3 different versions in
<Begasus> 0.18 is superseded by 0.19 for primary (gcc2)
<Begasus> 0.19 is superseded by 0.21 on secondary (gcc11)
<jmairboeck> lilypond needs devel:libintl$secondaryArchSuffix and the build tries to run msgfmt apparently (from the buildmaster logs), which doesn't work currently
<jmairboeck> because devel:libintl$secondaryArchSuffix means gettext_x86, which only provides msgfmt-x86
<Begasus> it's part of the default gettext package, so you shouldn't need to use cmd:msgfmt in BUILD_PREREQUIRES?
<Begasus> build system should pick up mgsfmt_x86 just fine
<andreasdr[m]> Does Haiku already have rust and cargo. Because this looks nice:
<Begasus> yep andreasdr[m]
<jmairboeck> Begasus: the build log says: "make[3]: msgfmt: Command not found"
<Begasus> local build jmairboeck ?
<andreasdr[m]> Begasus: Good morning and nice.
<Begasus> hi :)
<jmairboeck> my 32 bit vm is not big enough :(
<jmairboeck> so I would need to set up one with a bigger disk image
<Begasus> ah right there jmairboeck (just checked buildlog)
<Begasus> it's weird as in configure status it finds it? checking for msgfmt... msgfmt
<jmairboeck> that's weird indeed
<Begasus> checkout out something else, so can't run a build atm
<jmairboeck> I'll take a look later (probably tomorrow), what the configure script actually does there, I have to go now.
<Begasus> cu later :)
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<Begasus> Hi Kokito :)
<Kokito> Hello Begasus!
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<Begasus> How's it going there?
<Kokito> All is well here. Thank you! How about you?
<Begasus> Not to bad, had better days, but also worse days :)
<Kokito> Such is life!
<bjorn3[m]> I decided to try Haiku in a qemu vm. It works, but the if_config_tqg_0 kernel thread is consuming a full cpu core and ethernet link state checker is also consuming some cpu state. It also keeps poping up a network status notification alternating between "configuring" for a split second and "no link". Does anyone have a clue what could be going on?
<bjorn3[m]> At first I was running it in a single core vm, which made everything unbearably slow. With 4 cores it isn't slow anymore, but still if_config_tqg_0 shouldn't consume that much cpu, right?
<Begasus> Not familiar with qemu here
<bjorn3[m]> I see.
<Begasus> Maybe ask in the forum also?
<bjorn3[m]> Another thing is that launching GLTeapot caused a popup that an error occured (GLTeapot was still running), when I chose to open a debugger this showed two threads with a segment violation. Closing the debugger prompted if I wanted to kill GLTeapot or or continue. I chose to kill it which it did, but the debugger didn't close. Attempting to close again just prompts the same question without closing the debugger window.
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<PulkoMandy> there is an incompatibility between our network driver and one of the network cards emulated by qemu, the workaround is to configure your qemu for another network card device
<PulkoMandy> bjorn3[m], is the ticket about it, the workaround is adding -nic model=e1000 to your qemu command line or you could also use virtio network
<PulkoMandy> the default is -nic model=e1000e which isn't happy with our driver
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<nosycat> Where can I report a package with broken dependencies in HaikuDepot?
<nosycat> And for that matter old packages that haven't been kept current?
<nosycat> Not to be ungrateful, but we probably want the Depot to be useful.
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<nosycat> Thank you!
<PulkoMandy> thanks for taking the time to report problems, it's hard to keep track of everything :)
<nosycat> Of course.
<nosycat> There are hundreds of open issues. ^^;
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<bjorn3[m]> Thanks PulkoMandy! With `-nic model=e1000` it works fine.
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<waddlesplash> anybody watched this talk? slides separately here:
<waddlesplash> cc PulkoMandy, puck_, kallisti5[m]
<waddlesplash> we're not really in a position to do a whole lot related to the suggestions he's making, but, perhaps something to keep in mind
<waddlesplash> in fact I think we've all mentioned a bunch of the things in there before
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<nosycat> o/
<Begasus> nosycat, I guess it is you for the latest issues comments? ;)
<nosycat> Yes. Sorry to impose.
<Begasus> np, as PulkoMandy mentioned, not enough people to keep up (or the time to do so) :)
<Begasus> hitting "waiting for package ... " again :/
<nosycat> Fair. No worries.
<Begasus> problem 1: nothing provides lib:libicuuc_x86>=57.1 needed by boost165_x86-1.65.1-4
<Begasus> it's a known problem, some of those packages need a version bump or rebuild against newer boost version
<nosycat> Should have searched for "boost". Oops.
<Begasus> np, related to icu also, so it's not that easy to spot :)
<Begasus> but it's good that you created the issue, now we can look into it!
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56786] -
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 429e730135f7 - mount_server: remember read-only attribute
<Begasus> boost163 is old, so we should see to rebuild those packages with the newer version :)
<Begasus> But we need people like you creating issues so we don't miss them :)
<zdykstra> is there a GUI for configuring NFS mounts / enabling mount on boot / etc ?
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus d3830cd - scummvm(tools), bump version (#7877)
<Begasus> k, this should be fine (checked build on 32bit), and hopefully ready before the official release :)
<nosycat> Thumbs up!
<pairisto[m]> I am having a problem with booting a compiled version of Haiku. I am trying to use the command qemu-system-x86_64 haiku-nightly-anyboot.iso and it just stays at the boot screen shown below? I am using Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and it is running in VirtualBox if that helps with anything.
<pairisto[m]> s//`/, s//`/, s/below/above/
<waddlesplash> pairisto[m]: likely need more memory
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<waddlesplash> add "-m 1G" to command line
<waddlesplash> or at least -m 512M
<pairisto[m]> how much does qemu give normally?
<waddlesplash> don't remember, but a very small amount
<pairisto[m]> I see, thank you though waddlesplash!
<badkeming[m]> Why do people use virtualbox on linux?
<badkeming[m]> like, qemu-kvm, gnome-boxes and virt-manager are all a thing.
<nosycat> My manual page says 128M is default in Qemu.
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<pairisto[m]> agreed, virtual box wa just to make sure I am sane and testing every possibility
<badkeming[m]> ah, ok.
<pairisto[m]> ah, that is very small
<pairisto[m]> s/wa/was/
<AGMS> Also VirtualBox is relatively easy to use. Though performance is bad for Haiku with more than one cpu emulated (so use just one for extra speed!).
<AGMS> And you can use the same image files under Windows, if you dual boot.
<Begasus> I used VBox for years on Ubuntu to boot into Haiku, never had any real issues (on Windows11 I need to switch to VMWare)
<nosycat> 512M suffices for x86, but RAM is always close to full.
<pairisto[m]> fair enough, I also have a question since I am new to open source, should I download the new version of haiku everyday to do testing and create patches with or can I just use one build every week or so? mostly looking to contribute so I want to know the best environment setup for that
<waddlesplash> if you're going to build the system yourself you may not even need to download new versions
<waddlesplash> and, the system can update itself via the package manager anyway, you do not need to download full versions manually
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56787] -
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 36e200e2e051 - sys/uio: Add preadv/pwritev.
<AGMS> Right, if you use the development repository for the packages, you get the latest version.
<pairisto[m]> so just stick with one for now and then recompile when I am adding things and update when needed. also should I use the live version and not install?
<Begasus> bugger, buildmaster reconnecting on 32bit :/
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56788] -
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 08f748dea76c - Deskbar: Remove B_TRANSLATE_SYSTEM_NAME and leave a comment as to why.
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<Begasus> Something is deffenitly wrong at buildmaster (64bit for webkit-gtk):
<Begasus> some packages already exist at /var/buildmaster/haikuports/packages, revision bump required
<Begasus> it's a version bump?
<Begasus> gulrak_filesystem was a new recipe, got that same message there (lilypond too for the new version) ...
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<waddlesplash> Begasus: I think it restarted the build
<waddlesplash> the real build is a few back
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<Begasus> false reports then waddlesplash ?
<waddlesplash> no, it's correct
<waddlesplash> it just already built, but then a later recipe the builder disconnected
<waddlesplash> so it restarted the whole job, including already completed builds
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<Begasus> ah :)
<B2IA> (Butler) Welcome to
<Begasus> could someone poke the 32bit buildmaster?
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<Begasus> 'lo humdinger :)
<humdinger> hullo!
<Begasus> nosycat, just checked a current build for mudler, errors out, maybe it could use an update :)
<nosycat> So it's hopeless for now?
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<Begasus> Not yet ;)
<Begasus> I'm not giving up that easy :P
<Begasus> Doing a new check with the latest commit for elbee-lib
<nosycat> Fingers crossed.
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<B2IA> (beosbinky) Is there a wifi tool for haiku?
<zdykstra> you can connect to wifi networks, is that what you're asking?
<B2IA> (beosbinky) yes
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<B2IA> (beosbinky) There is no wifi network mentioned in the Network preference
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<nosycat> If you don't see your Wi-Fi adapter listed, Haiku probably doesn't have a driver for it.
<Begasus> Got the same thing on some of the laptops here
<B2IA> (beosbinky) Is there an alternative wifi driver available?
<Begasus> Don't think so, this laptop doesn't even have a LAN connection, so I'm out of luck using Haiku on it
<Begasus> (aside from Virtual)
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<B2IA> (beosbinky) That is a pitty
<B2IA> (beosbinky) I was running ZevenOS recently. It is an ubuntu version but it looks like BeOS. Only the development of it has discontinued.
<Begasus> Well, I can run Haiku on it, but no network connection
<Begasus> It was a project from someone in the BeOS days long time ago beosbinky :)
<Begasus> Anyway, mudlet still building nosycat (grabbing some food here now) :)
<nosycat> Thank you!
<B2IA> (beosbinky) That's quite common in linux distros. If you are happy using one, than at some point in time the development stops.
<Begasus> np, if buildmaster doesn't come up shortly I need to switch to 64bit to build scummvm(tools) for the latest release myself :)
<nosycat> Going to bed soon anyway.
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<HaikuUser> Hey
<HaikuUser> So R1B4, I get errors when trying the live cd mode.
<nosycat> Hello!
<HaikuUser> Tried different USB, checked sha256 sum.
<HaikuUser> So, for example GLTeapot will bug out
<HaikuUser> Drivesetup will result in a kernel panic
<HaikuUser> So, I tried setting it up with the terminal. Figured fdisk, parted, part, etc is not available. How do I do it through the Haiku terminal?
<HaikuUser> Nightly just freezes. R1B3 worked fine though.
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<HaikuUser> I assume it's the command mkfs, which seems good
<HaikuUser> But how do I list the disks?
<nosycat> mkfs can only format an existing partition.
<HaikuUser> I see, how do I list and initialise disk from terminal, also create a partition in Haiku?
<HaikuUser> I'm used to linux tools
<nosycat> Dunno, I'm new. Beta 4 was perfectly stable for me. Sorry.
<HaikuUser> I am going through the /bin folder looking for the commands
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) beosbinky, the best thing to do is buy a supported wifi card. Or meet someone on craigslist and buy it if the usb driver boots.
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) that zevenos sounds like BlueEyedOS
<HaikuUser> Might kernel panic now
<B2IA> (beosbinky) zevenos looks nice
<PulkoMandy> pairisto[m], how you use Haiku for development depends a bit on what you'll be working on. For example if you work on drivers or kernel things, it's easier to build on Linux and boot the generated image in a virtual machine. However if you work on an application it may be easier to build just that app inside Haiku, and then having it as a more "permanent" install, even in a VM, is a better way
<PulkoMandy> BlueEyedOS was a reimplementation of the Be API over Linux (source compatible but not binary compatible). ZevenOS is/was just a BeOS look for Linux with no compatibility at all with existing apps
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<B2IA> (nintendo1889) @binky you can also look into these alternatives if you're dying to run haiku, I doubt they have better driver support, if a network card is the issue:
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) Was zeta made by yellowtab?
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<B2IA> (nintendo1889) nm, found the answer
<B2IA> (beosbinky) As far as I know zeta was indeed made by yellowtab.
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<B2IA> (beosbinky) The were some problems with the intellectual property rights of BeOS by yellowtab
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<Begasus> Heading down here, g'night peeps!
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<B2IA> (beosbinky) Good night
<andreasdr> Good night
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<B2IA> (nintendo1889) was there ever a Beos 1.0 or 2.0? I can find one on or
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) can => can't
<HaikuUser> So I am back. I used virtualbox to init the drive and format
<HaikuUser> I then managed to boot on real metal and install haiku, update it
<HaikuUser> Now GLTeapot runs without bugging out
<HaikuUser> I am afraid to run drivesetup
<B2IA> (beosbinky) Have you looked at for BeOS 1.0?
<HaikuUser> Screw it
<B2IA> (beosbinky) ?
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<andreasdr> Hi
<andreasdr> In the ocaml package there seems opam to be missing?
<andreasdr> I had a look into porting haxe. (
<andreasdr> That would be the first barrier
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) I checked, even downloaded all of the beos torrents, no 1.0 or 2.0 of beos. I guess the developer releases were those releases, or they weren't release publicly
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<PulkoMandy> the early versions were for the first generation BeBox based on the Hobbit CPU before Be switched to PowerPC. Indeed that was never released
<PulkoMandy> and then there were the "Developer Releases"
<PulkoMandy> has a summary
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<waddlesplash> PulkoMandy: actually the Hobbit stuff was released
<waddlesplash> or leaked? idk
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) yeah there's a hobbit image and filesystem dump on
<PulkoMandy> it was archived from the prototypes that people got out of Be
<PulkoMandy> but never released commercially or anything
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) I wish at&t had released the hobbit cpu. Someone should write a book about all of the interesting technologies that never saw the light of day or saw a wide release. Example: there is no hobbit cpu article on wikipedia and not much about it on the chip datasheet sites. Including the tech culture at Be Inc
<waddlesplash> no, there's a wikipedia page
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) ah
<B2IA> (nintendo1889) is there a way to switch ctrl and alt everywhere except the terminal? I'm always using the wrong shortcuts when switching browser tabs or switching between applications. Even when editing text, I'm keep using ctrl-left and ctrl-right to skip back and forwards to the previous/next word.
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<waddlesplash> nope
<waddlesplash> this is probably a case where it makes the most sense to argue that Haiku is right and all other OSes are wrong
<waddlesplash> well, I guess macOS does the right thing here also?
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<B2IA> (nintendo1889) ok, I'm only a light mac user
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<B2IA> (nintendo1889) I get the compatibility with macos, but whenever I switch to windows, I find myself using the haiku shortcuts
<puck_> <@waddlesplash> we're not really in a position to do a whole lot related to the suggestions he's making, but, perhaps something to keep in mind <- doing non-asymmetric core numa requires a lot of weird design thinking
<puck_> oh boy the at&t hobbit got mentioned
<puck_> i should clean up my hobbit emulator some day
<x512[m]> PulkoMandy: For me it is easier to run Haiku in RISC-V emulator (RVVM or TinyEMU) when developing kernel code.
<x512[m]> No Linux is needed.
<x512[m]> It is nice to have environment that you understand and can fully control.
<puck_> i think i might be the only person who can currently emulate the AT&T Hobbit and the prototype bebox's peripherals >:3
<waddlesplash> woah
<puck_> it's very slow /but/ the CPU is correct at least
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<waddlesplash> where's the CPU emulation from? or did you have to write it from scratch
<puck_> :)
<puck_> it's from scratch, with a /lot/ of work gone into figuring out some of the lesser documented quirks
<waddlesplash> wow
<pairisto[m]> thank you PulkoMandy!
<waddlesplash> I know MAME has something here but not very much
<puck_> took me about a week total
<bjorkintosh> puck_, what was special about the hobbit?
<waddlesplash> you should at least do a code dump
<puck_> bjorkintosh: it's a CRISP (C Reduced Instruction Set Processor)
<puck_> it was basically designed as a semi-stack machine; there's *no* registers at all
<puck_> (except for MSRs but eh)
<waddlesplash> if it's a semi-stack machine, recompiling should theoretically be easier?
<puck_> this causes some funny quirks
<puck_> e.g. this is valid AT&T Hobbit assembly: movar8048,r8
<puck_> that is indeed referencing a "register 8040"
<puck_> 8048*
<puck_> to clarify, that is the equivalent to `*(sp + 8 bytes) = *(sp + 8048 bytes)`
<puck_>'s unmarked, so i think it probably is word-size
<puck_> ahahah looking through the rest of the file system dump, i just found "add3r16524,r240"
<waddlesplash> there have been screenshots from the Hobbit BeOS on the web already, I wonder where they come from?
<puck_> someone with a capture card, i think
<waddlesplash> ah
<puck_> once as a joke i replicated one of the photos of a prototype bebox: vs
<x512[m]> puck_: > emulate the AT&T Hobbit
<x512[m]> What!? I WANT it.
<puck_> fun fact: the Hobbit BeBox could maybe control one lamp and coffee:
<waddlesplash> did you post this on twitter at some point?
<waddlesplash> how did I miss that
<x512[m]> > took me about a week total
<x512[m]> Lets praise the hero.
<bjorkintosh> interesting.
<waddlesplash> are the hobbitdocs saved on the internet anywhere?
<waddlesplash> I have them downloaded from who knows where
<waddlesplash> I also have an archive of the "Andrew Lampert BeBox Images", which has disk images of 3 different Hobbits
<pairisto[m]> what directory would I find the tun kernel code in Haiku itself if the github has it in src/add-ons/kernel/network/devices/tun/tun.cpp?
<waddlesplash> pairisto[m]: haiku doesn't ship the source code in default builds
<puck_> waddlesplash: i have be3 and pixels, and images for serial number 9, 44, 58
<waddlesplash> yeah, the lampert has 9, 44, 58
<waddlesplash> where's be3 and pixels from?
<puck_> waddlesplash: those are the fs names of two of those images
<waddlesplash> ah
<waddlesplash> wait I have an installer package?
<waddlesplash> where did I get this from
<waddlesplash> it appears to be 7 1.44M floppy images
<pairisto[m]> I'm assuming that is also the case if I compiled it?
<puck_> yeah i have those extracted as well
<puck_> installer.img is a bootable OS i think, then 1 through 7 of 7 are archive.Z0{0-6} files; the update img is archive.Z00
<puck_> bsdtar can actually extract them (tho it ends up truncating somewhere, might be my mistake in building this archive tho)
<waddlesplash> puck_: so what do we have to bribe you with to upload this somewhere?? :p
<x512[m]> He deserves a reward from Haiku Inc..
<puck_> She* :p
<puck_> tbf the reason i wrote this is i wanted to prank someone by compiling something as a hobbit .elf lol
<x512[m]> Sorry.
<puck_> i think i want to spend a bit of time cleaning up the CPU logic and make it actually multi-threaded instead of weird lockstep
<puck_> and possibly lay down the foundations for userspace emulation
<waddlesplash> userspace emulation?
<puck_> qemu-user style
<waddlesplash> ah, right
<puck_> primarily because of one small issue
<puck_> i don't have a working C compiler for the Hobbit.
<puck_> or well. i *do*
<puck_> it's just for the Hobbit
<bjorkintosh> puck_, did you write the emulator from whatarethosethings... text?!
<waddlesplash> oh, and not BeOS on the Hobbit you mean?
<puck_> no, it's for hobbit BeOS
* waddlesplash is confused
<puck_> but there's a bug causing every keypress to take a good 2 seconds to process
<waddlesplash> oh
<waddlesplash> I see
<puck_> also i don't think there's a text editor for the Hobbit. maybe vi?
<waddlesplash> just inject text files into a hard disk?
<puck_> oh, also, i emailed someone who has a bebox prototype to see if they could dump the boot rom, but i haven't heard back, lol
<puck_> (i implement enough of the logic the boot rom would do, i can even emulate >32MiB beboxes)
<waddlesplash> neat
<puck_> bjorkintosh: yeah, the bitsavers pdf
<bjorkintosh> wat?!
<puck_> i linked it a bit back
<bjorkintosh> that's a lot of work.
<waddlesplash> bjorkintosh: how do you think emulator development from scrach works? :-p
<puck_> it's not too complex tbh
<puck_> it's a nice little architecture even
<bjorkintosh> waddlesplash, umm. spin up Qemu... and then voila!
<bjorkintosh> there. from 'scratch'.
<PulkoMandy> mh... I wonder how vbcc would behave if you tell it your CPU has no registers...
<puck_> yeah that's a whole design issue
<puck_> though my issue was in the other direction
<puck_> can llvm handle 2^32 registers
<puck_> since, well, there's no "register spilling"
<waddlesplash> PulkoMandy: probably makes sense to use a compiler designed for Java or something like that?
<x512[m]> puck_: What executable format do BeOS Hobbit use?
<waddlesplash> puck_: how does the cpu cache behave? surely it makes sense to have a "registers-like area" which is frequently accessed
<puck_> x512[m]: system/browser: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, *unknown arch 0x39d* version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped
<puck_> waddlesplash: it's got a small cache of the bottom of stack that works like a register file, yes
<waddlesplash> well, then use that as the "registers area" for llvm, right?
<waddlesplash> that's got to be what, no more than 2^12?
<puck_> the stack cache is 64 words.
<waddlesplash> do you have any control over it from asm or is it purely dependent on the cpu?
<waddlesplash> that sounds pretty workable
<puck_> this is a fun question and the answer is "it's load-bearing"
<PulkoMandy> vbcc can target the Z-Machine (interpreter for infocom games like Zork) which also seems to have no registers
<PulkoMandy> so it should be OK with that I guess
<puck_> so, as a fun anecdote. it took me a week to write the emulator because i spent like 2 to 3 days just being baffled
<puck_> because context switches Did Not Work
<bjorkintosh> what, it took only a week? is it that simple?
<puck_> no i just hyperfocused
<puck_> so it'd switch the context, do some weird trickery with the stack cache (which i ignored in my impl because, well, it's a cache), and then switch the page table .. and instantly segfault
<bjorkintosh> oh. desert island situation
<puck_> turns out, and i could've seen this coming, not having registers means you can't switch page tables and then switch stacks. where do you store the stack to swap to?
<bjorkintosh> on another stack.
<bjorkintosh> or on a heap.
<puck_> how do you point to that heap or other stack?
<bjorkintosh> grab a stick.
<bjorkintosh> I have no idea!
<puck_> so. when context switching, the code explicitly wipes the stack cache, sets it to a static 8 bytes, which covers the new stack and program counter
<puck_> it then swaps page tables, *and the stack cache happens before TLB translation*. it does its logic, then explicitly *discards the stack cache* instead of having it write back into memory
<waddlesplash> huh
<puck_> so yeah. load bearing cache
<puck_> (you can only do this in supervisor mode. userspace does not let you discard the stack cache.)
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<x512[m]> Port object watching design.
<AlienSoldier> puck_ any planed FPGA core?
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<puck_> AlienSoldier: i am not very good at fpga design otherwise i'd do it
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<bjorkintosh> puck_, first, you start with a target FPGA board! do you have one lying around?
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<puck_> the issue is mostly dram, i could probably amaranth the rest pretty easily
<bjorkintosh> dram on the board? or some hobbit weirdness?
<puck_> i just can't be bothered to write a proper DRAM controller
<x512[m]> FPGA is much harder to have and use for wider audience compared to pure software solution.
<bjorkintosh> x512[m], well, its a special sort of masochist who wants to play with FPGAs.
<bjorkintosh> it's still not as bad as 'modern web'.
<bjorkintosh> NOTHING beats that damned nightmare.
<x512[m]> Hobbit emulator in web browser :)
<x512[m]> RVVM RISC-V emulator online:
<bjorkintosh> speaking of fossilized computers:
<bjorkintosh> Construct the computer from your childhood or build an entire computer museum at home with these paper models, free to download and share.
<bjorkintosh> Print, Cut, Score, Fold and Glue.
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