<x512[m]>
I had an idea of making "PackageBuilder", an alternative of HaikuPorter with simpler declarative recipe language and full cross compile support. Write in C++.
<x512[m]>
Haiku still have no RISC-V package building infrastructure :(
<bjorkintosh>
yet.
<bjorkintosh>
consider how new risc-v is.
<x512[m]>
HaikuPorter lack of crosscompile support is major issue.
<bjorkintosh>
x512[m], do you have risc-v hardware?
<x512[m]>
Yes. HiFive Unmatched.
<puck_>
i kinda want a visionfive 2
<x512[m]>
Still not available on regular market.
<x512[m]>
> This item will be released on March 20, 2023.
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<andreasdr[m]>
I got one baked :)
<andreasdr[m]>
VK and GL3 was not working for me last time I used the visionfive with their official debian
<andreasdr[m]>
Waiting for the next release
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<x512[m]>
andreasdr: It will work with llvmpipe or lavapipe, but I don't know how show.
<x512[m]>
show -> slow
<andreasdr[m]>
Ah I see. No worries. I have time with this nice little hardware :) Can wait until they fix that.
<andreasdr[m]>
The GPU should be about as 4 times as fast the one from the PI4 i read somewhere, so I was very curious about the 3d performance.
<andreasdr[m]>
4 times faster
<andreasdr[m]>
The CPU seems to be quite slow
<x512[m]>
Did they solve a problem with slow memcpy()?
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<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie e05df5f - cdogs_sdl: update to 1.4.1 (#7880)
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<andreasdr[m]>
x512: I found nothing about slow memcpy
<x512[m]>
You can compile simple program that do memcpy() of some large buffer and measure time.
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<PulkoMandy>
I wonder how haikuports.cross works without cross compiler support in haikuporter… sounds like it should be possible
<PulkoMandy>
There are many hroblems with haikuporter (mainly being a python/bash tool written by a c++/perl developer) but I don't think cross compiling is one of them
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<x512[m]>
Right now haikuports.cross can't be used from Haiku, only from Linux.
<x512[m]>
It use alternative Python code path in HaikuPorter code and totally separate set of recipes.
<x512[m]>
GCC built from haikuports.cross is known to produce broken exception support.
<x512[m]>
So HaikuPorter cross compiling support is currently in disaster shape.
<x512[m]>
*.recipe format would be like need to be changed for cross compile support. Otherwise why separate repo exists for crosscompiled recipes?
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<PulkoMandy>
Recipe format has no problems and the separate repo uses that support. All you need in recipes is build_requires (things that run on the target) vs build_prerequires (things that run on the host)
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<PulkoMandy>
Cross-compile recipes were separated because they add some complexity to the recipes (not because the tools are bad, but because cross compiling is more complex than single target compiling), and it was best to keep that out of the way
<PulkoMandy>
And yes, haikuports.cross recipes are out of date and mostly unmaintained. But this has nothing to do with haikuports itself
<x512[m]>
Not to forget that haikuports.cross is supposed to produced some special bootstrap packages that is strange idea in the first place.
<x512[m]>
Crosscompiler should produce proper packages.
<PulkoMandy>
Yes. But again that's not a haikuporter problem, that's a Haiku buildsystem problem
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: Anybody succeed to crosscompile regular haikuporter recipes?
<x512[m]>
Haiku have no build system. That is haikuporter build system.
<x512[m]>
There are Jam rules, but that are mostly used by Haiku itself internally and a few native apps.
<PulkoMandy>
all the bootstrap thing and haikuports.cross is designed specifically for building haiku and tied with haiku buildsystem
<PulkoMandy>
regular haikuporter recipes needs some changes, to start with, replace "cmd:gcc" in the recipe with the name of the cross compiler. And then tell the buildsystem of whatever software you are building that you want to use that compiler
<PulkoMandy>
recipes in haikuports.cross can be used as an example of this, they have these changes, but they also have more: an attempt to reduce dependencies for each recipe to the very minimum, so that the recipes can be built without needing a full haiku.hpkg (for the host or the target system)
<PulkoMandy>
what else is needed from haikuporter?
<Begasus>
heading out for a while, will do some finetuning on the recipe, but so far looks good :)
<nosycat>
It's no hurry. Take care!
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<puck_>
hmm. once the EGL stuff works i couold probably properly make https://puck.moe/up/jabak-zapib.png work (it creates two GL contexts, and the SDL2 haiku stuff doesn't like it)
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<B2IA>
(nintendo1889) any former be devs working on haiku?
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<PulkoMandy>
Not currently and actively
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<B2IA>
(nintendo1889) have any ever worked on it besides travis? I guess they all had NDA's when they left
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<nosycat>
o/
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<B2IA>
(nintendo1889) nosy, what was the culture at be like?
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<PulkoMandy>
NDAs? They opensourced what they could and carried some of it over to their next employers
<PulkoMandy>
That's how Android got Binder, which was originally an experiment from Be and later Palm
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<x512[m]>
I wonder why Binder was made instead of extending existing scripting.
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<x512[m]>
With Binder they remade almost all BeAPI from scratch.
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<B2IA>
(nintendo1889) cool. Someday when haiku rules the world, we will make a proper documentary about beos & haiku development. I read the att hobbit wiki article yesterday. It reminded me of riscv and how awesome it will be to have a 32 cpu riscv system someday.
<B2IA>
(nintendo1889) It gave me hope for the future of computers. Just wanted to say thanks for such a great system. I know it's a labor of love.
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<PulkoMandy>
X512: the goal of Binder was to avoid having to write MessageReceived with big switch/case and instead have something directly calling methods. Back then CORBA was very popular and this looked like the future, and so they had a try at it
<x512[m]>
MessageReceived switch can be autogenerated.
<x512[m]>
The problem with scripting is a lack of ownership management (reference counting etc.), but I think it can be fixed.
<nosycat>
That's funny, I was just reading recently how MacOS Classic worked exactly like that.
<nosycat>
Apps had a big loop with a switch, like in SDL.
<nosycat>
Or Yab.
<PulkoMandy>
It can be generated but even having to subclass everything just to add a few things to MessageReceived is annoying. And also that you can send messages to only one place (StartWatching/;endNotices solves this already, but it add one more layer to the thing)
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<x512[m]>
I just think that it is better to extend existing API instead rewriting everything from scratch.
<x512[m]>
Do we really need to rewrite all API for Bindler like Be did?
<x512[m]>
> And also that you can send messages to only one place
<x512[m]>
You can subscribe for receiving messages.
<PulkoMandy>
With modern C++ we have a lot more options. It would be nice to be able to directly set a lambda to handle clicks on a button, instead of having to define a message constant, make sure it is sent to the looper/handler where you want to handle it, getting the message in a switch/case, extracting the data from the message to convert it into c++ variables or function arguments
<PulkoMandy>
Rather than code generation I would try doing it with a new API, possibly using the same BMessage based protocol so it can interoperate with existing code
<PulkoMandy>
But in BeOS days I can see why they would dare to drop compatibility, especially if this was for BeIA or some other of the late projects they tried
<phschafft>
I mean you could just register a on-click callback.
<phschafft>
which would get a random ID assigned or something.
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: It is possible to add generic message handled in BHandler/BLooper that will execute function pointer.
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<x512[m]>
Code generation seems required for inter-process RPC.
<x512[m]>
You can't just call a function pointer in another team.
<Begasus>
heading down, g'night peeps!
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<PulkoMandy>
Well, Binder does it, so does Corba. But it works the other way around: you subscribe to some event in another team, and when the event happens, you receive a notification and that calls your method
<PulkoMandy>
If you do things in this publish-subscribe way, and with more standardized messages so you can automate extracting their contents into things you can pass as function parameterr, no code generation is needed
<PulkoMandy>
It's an interesting approach if there are no compatibility constraints, but also this trend didn't really live past the 90s or early 2000s so surely it didn't quite work?
<x512[m]>
Definition contents extraction can already be automated with get scripting suite request.
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<andreasdr[m]>
Good morning.
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<BrunoSpr>
hello all
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi BrunoSpr
<andreasdr[m]>
Any news in Haiku universum?
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<BrunoSpr>
hello all
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