ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<zdykstra> how do people do backups of Haiku ?
<augiedoggie> i usually only want to keep track of ~/config/settings and a few other directories with my scripts and stuff so i just zip them up
<augiedoggie> but i store a lot of stuff on my NAS, so i don't have a lot in my homedir
<zdykstra> accessed over NFS?
<augiedoggie> yeah
<augiedoggie> i usually also grab the system settings directories
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<augiedoggie> at some point i should see how well borg works on haiku, i know begasus put some effort into getting it to build
<zdykstra> does rsync know how to copy attributes, if going from one BFS volume to another?
<augiedoggie> i don't trust it with my main backup repository though which has 5-6 systems in it
<augiedoggie> yes
<augiedoggie> if you use -X
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<augiedoggie> waddlesplash: do you know if atime in stat() is on a TODO list or if BFS doesn't support it for some reason?
<augiedoggie> it appears to always return the current time
<waddlesplash> afaict, it's not supported by BFS
<augiedoggie> ok
<waddlesplash> I just looked at BFS source code, and there's no atime in the inode structures
<augiedoggie> heh
<waddlesplash> other filesystems on Haiku should support atime
<augiedoggie> thank, i'm talking with the emacs dev to figure out a problem
<zdykstra> core2duo a bit of a dog to compile Tracker
<waddlesplash> augiedoggie: ext2 does at least
<augiedoggie> at first i thought stat() was modifying atime every call
<waddlesplash> the ext2/3/4 driver does, that is
<waddlesplash> NTFS does theoretically but I think it's disabled with an #ifdef atm
<augiedoggie> cool, he'll have to update his comment for the patch he pushed probably
<augiedoggie> hopefully he doesn't have to revert and patch something else instead
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<zdykstra> what's the preferred/fast way to test changes to libtracker.so ?
<augiedoggie> probably put its path first in $LIBRARY_PATH
<x512[m]> zdykstra: Put it to ./lib directory of your application.
<augiedoggie> does that come before the system lib directories?
<zdykstra> Tracker auto-restarts if I kill it, how can I stop that?
<x512[m]> Or to /bopt/home/config/non-packaged/lib if you want to apply globally.
<x512[m]> /boot/home/config/non-packaged/lib
<augiedoggie> use launch_roster to stop Tracker
<zdykstra> ahh thanks
* zdykstra uses HaikuUtils/Services
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<zdykstra> the difference between a ~2008 low voltage core2duo and a 65watt i5-8500 is pretty staggering
<zdykstra> after 20 minutes on the core2duo, libtracker still wasn't done building. Maybe 3? minutes on the i5 and it was done.
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<humdinger> Morning!
<humdinger> does 32bit Haiku beta4come with ggc2 and gcc11 ffmpeg packages installed?
* humdinger pages Begasus
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<humdinger> just the man!
<humdinger> Hi Begasus!
<Begasus> Ai!
<humdinger> I willed you here :)
<netposit1ve> morning
<humdinger> A question for the old 32bit user:
<humdinger> does 32bit Haiku beta4come with ggc2 and gcc11 ffmpeg packages installed?
<Begasus> moin humdinger netposit1ve
<Begasus> afaik yes
<humdinger> ok thanks.
<humdinger> what's the deal with the packages "ffmpeg" and "ffmpeg5" btw?
<Begasus> 4.2.1 installed atm
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<Begasus> think I had some issues building/installing ffmpeg5 here, but that has been a while
<humdinger> Begasus: how sure are you about both ffmpeg versions being in beta4? can you verify?
<Begasus> I can mount an usb stick here, should be clean
<humdinger> great, thanks!
<humdinger> I'd have to download the ISO for 45 minutes...
<Begasus> bugger, that was the 64bit version :)
<Begasus> downloading (about 15minutes)
<humdinger> thanks. I'm still waiting on my fiber connection...
<PulkoMandy> There are the two versions of ffmpeg libraries for sure, I don't remember how we set up the command line tools however
<humdinger> Hi PulkoMandy. yes, the _tools package is the one I need.
<humdinger> Is there a performance diff between the versions?
<Begasus> avg speed 9MB/sec, not bad :)
<humdinger> Begasus: like 1.5 here :\
<Begasus> flashing ...
<humdinger> for some reason I cannot find out what ffmpeg packages are bundled from the Haiku source tree.
<humdinger> I should be able by looking into build/jam/ I guess...
<humdinger> illudes me
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<Begasus> both ffmpegg gcc2 and gcc11 for version 4.2.7 installed in the beta
<humdinger> Great, thanks!
<Begasus> np
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<humdinger> Then I'll just use the gcc2 version of ffmpeg and be done.
<Begasus> less download I presume? ;)
<humdinger> I hope. I suppose if I use "REQUIRES="cmd:ffmpeg" in the recipe, it should pick the /bin/ffmpeg binary
<Begasus> did you check with "pkgman search cmd:ffmpeg"?
<humdinger> nah in ffmpegGUI we call the "ffmpeg" binary. if there were just the ffmpeg-x86 version, it wouldn't find it
<humdinger> I did search, but cannot now remember... I think it found all ffmpeg packages there are. 4, 5 and _x86
<Begasus> right
<humdinger> I think I'll make another testrun.
* humdinger waves
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<Begasus> doxygen could use an update :) https://github.com/doxygen/doxygen/pull/9610
<jessicah> zdykstra: yeah, the perf and perf/watt improvements is pretty mind boggling
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] autocommitter pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56777] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=98a5975248fc+%5E050515f6aefd
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 98a5975248fc - Update translations from Pootle
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<Begasus> previous PR for doxygen merged, created PR for filesystem.hpp upstream that should cover and fix detection for Haiku :)
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56778] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=9a91a726625b+%5E98a5975248fc
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 9a91a726625b - Api docs: dark mode
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<humdinger> hullo!
<humdinger> is there a way for an app to check ifit runs in a 32bit Haiku?
<PulkoMandy> the simplest way seems to be #ifdef B_HAIKU_32_BIT at compile time
<humdinger> oh. I'll try that, thanks!
<PulkoMandy> (defined in BeBuild.h so you may need to #include that)
<humdinger> thanks!
<humdinger> gotta boot into 32bit to check...
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<humdinger> Any Italian around that wants to finish ffmpegGUI translations?
<humdinger> You have until tomorrow. :)
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56779] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=dc509bfab4fd+%5E9a91a726625b
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] dc509bfab4fd - fs_shell: Use proper readv/writev functions on Haiku hosts.
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<bjorkintosh> <humdinger> Any Italian around that wants to finish ffmpegGUI translations? make chatgpt do it!
* nosycat applies garlic and crosses
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<humdinger> bjorkintosh: I doubt that'll work out well. And I have no interest learning to use chatgpt... :)
<humdinger> bjorkintosh: If you do, try it with German. That at least I can check when it's finished.
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/5117887593fb...81015e952f0d
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] nephele-gh 81015e9 - Doxygen: 1.9.6 (#7862)
<humdinger> Plus, IMO if there's no Italian user interested in translating, there's no interest in an Italian version of an app.
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<ANDREAS0211> hello hello how low
<Begasus> 'lo ANDREAS0211 :)
<humdinger> Also, I like to see Haiku app development as a community project. No robots allowed. :)
<Begasus> humdinger, no need for chatgpt here also, let's use our own brains :)
<humdinger> hi ANDREAS0211. get a heharing aid. :)
<humdinger> Begasus: ... and live with what we end up with that.
<humdinger> ^"hearing aid"
<Begasus> hehe
* humdinger , mess-upper of punch lines
<Begasus> nephele around?
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* humdinger looks under the sofa. not here.
<Begasus> once this gets merged no need to patch doxygen anymore :) https://github.com/gulrak/filesystem/pull/163
<humdinger> ArtPaint release is delayed. Dale wants to squash a few more annoyances.
<nosycat> To be honest I tried contributing translations to a few projects. Got burned a couple of times, and the third time I got bored. Dunno if anyone was using the language.
<humdinger> Leaves Begasus with more time for the Dutch translation :)
<Begasus> well, if doxygen updates that file in the repo also
<humdinger> nosycat: one never knows. but having a human translator, there's at least one user for it. :)
<Begasus> Time is to lacking here humdinger , and from time to time I wan't to commit my focus on other things ;)
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<humdinger> Begasus: no problem. we just annoy the Dutch users with an incompletly translated GUI until they fill in the blanks. :)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/81015e952f0d...80250fcab643
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] davidkaroly 80250fc - wxgtk: update to 3.2.2.1 (#7863)
<nosycat> +1 for ArtPaint, it's my favorite graphics app from HaikuDepot.
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/80250fcab643...ab060fe7e2f2
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] davidkaroly ab060fe - wxqt: update to 3.2.2.1 (#7864)
<humdinger> cool!
<Begasus> can live with that humdinger :P
<humdinger> "like and subscribe" :)
<nosycat> I have telemetry enabled, does it count?
<Begasus> been looking into a build for gulrak_filesystem and catch2 earlear today
<humdinger> nosycat: for HaikuDepot? that just counts views of a package. Actually rating/commenting would be better :)
<nosycat> Duly noted.
<ANDREAS0211> My Haikiu installation has ssl cerf problems. Is it me something doing worng?
<humdinger> ANDREAS0211: possibly a misconfigured time/date
<ANDREAS0211> thanks
<Begasus> Or permission issue?
<Begasus> ah no, that was with ssh keys
<humdinger> keep us posted...
<ANDREAS0211> i didn't look at the time
<humdinger> time flies...
<Begasus> ...
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<humdinger> ho tqh!
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<tqh> hi
<B2IA> (cinati) Hello
<humdinger> hi cincinnati
<B2IA> (cinati) lol
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56780] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=3cc1da2b77d2+%5Edc509bfab4fd
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 3cc1da2b77d2 - BControl: fix big-endian bitmap handling for control icons
<B2IA> (cinati) I am testing the port or BeShare on BeBox PPC
<B2IA> (cinati) of
<humdinger> a blast from the past
<Begasus> seems to be OK cinati :)
<B2IA> (cinati) Yes, I had to fix some things to get it compile and link. I am using BeOS R4.5 on it
<Begasus> whoot, blast from the past :)
<humdinger> hmmm... this year I celebrate my 25th year of BeOS/Haiku usage... :o
<B2IA> (cinati) About same for me
<B2IA> (cinati) I used it on a Pentium II 350
<B2IA> (cinati) With a voodoo 2 accelerator
<humdinger> Had a DualP3@333 I think.
<humdinger> riva128
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<Begasus> First BeOS version was PE for me (about 1999/2000?)
<humdinger> so, a newbie then. :P
<andreasdr[m]> At the end in 2004 i had a dual PIII with 800MHZ, pretty sure I ran BeOS on it still.
<Begasus> :P
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev56781] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=fc2f1a32476e+%5E3cc1da2b77d2
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] fc2f1a32476e - BMenuField: remove deprecated constructors
<andreasdr[m]> I had Pro. :DDD
<Begasus> I still do andreasdr[m] (after I made contact with PE) :)
<andreasdr[m]> Oh. Still using BeOS R5 Pro?
<Begasus> no, not anymore, but still got the box and CD's here :)
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<humdinger> Been a Haiku user 3x longer than BeOS...
<andreasdr[m]> My BeOS R5 Pro was a gift of my dad. I think he might still have the box and CD.
<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
<andreasdr[m]> Haiku gets great. Steadily. I love it.
<Begasus> whell there was BeOSMasEd, PhOS, ZETA ...
<humdinger> aww, drat. gotta run!
* humdinger waves
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<B2IA> (cinati) Does haiku work on BeBox ?
<Begasus> Mas/Max*
<andreasdr[m]> Bye.
<andreasdr[m]> I missed Zeta.
<andreasdr[m]> I applied at Mannheim for ZETA development. I never got a single answer.
<andreasdr[m]> :DDD
<Begasus> :)
<Begasus> had close contacts there at that time (doing testing and translations)
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<andreasdr[m]> Now I applied also at AmigaOS4.x team(like a year ago), also I got no answer. I got a nice answer from MorphOS team. Nice people.
<andreasdr[m]> So at least I tried to apply for OS development :DDD
<Begasus> Why not Haiku? ;)
<andreasdr[m]> Need to pay my bills.
<andreasdr[m]> Unfortunatly.
<Begasus> Ah
<andreasdr[m]> Common story.
<andreasdr[m]> I do software development for my living.
<foint[m]> i never heard of MorphOS
<andreasdr[m]> Its a Amiga like OS for PPC, mostly Mac PPCs.
<andreasdr[m]> Not that bad. They need serious multi processor support. They even recently got a newer 3d stack.
<andreasdr[m]> But newer in this case is still old.
<andreasdr[m]> Maybe TDME2 can be adjusted to run on those machines.
<andreasdr[m]> Need to check,.
<andreasdr[m]> But those old PPCs, like a G5. They use so much power and have so less performance. So its some sort of nostalgia that I can understand on the one side but not on the other.
<foint[m]> well cool
<foint[m]> besides gnu/linux, freebsd and haiku. i don't know too much current operative systems
<Begasus> MorphOS has been around for a long time, remember doing a BeOS demo at the Belgium Amiga club back then :)
<andreasdr[m]> Well mostly its Linux nowadays, the BSDs(Net,Open,Free) and some rare other OSes.
<andreasdr[m]> Nice.
<andreasdr[m]> The early 2000 were nice.
<andreasdr[m]> We had QNX.
<Begasus> That too!
<Begasus> SkyOS
<B2IA> (cinati) QNX was nice running from a single floppy
<andreasdr[m]> This was very nice too next to BeOS, but they stopped doing a non commercial distribution for it.
<foint[m]> andreasdr[m]: i wasn't born back then lol
<andreasdr[m]> QNX was a full OS just liek BeOS also.
<Begasus> yep
<andreasdr[m]> Ok.
<andreasdr[m]> Well I am 43 now :)
<andreasdr[m]> I was 20 in the 2000s
* Begasus whistels
<andreasdr[m]> :DDD
<nosycat> I played with NetBSD some in recent years. It can run on configurations that make Haiku look bloated. :P
<andreasdr[m]> FreeBSD is rock solid. OpenBSD is too slow for my needs. And NetBSD related I wait for 10.0
<andreasdr[m]> NetBSD 10.0 will have updated DRM
<andreasdr[m]> If they manage to stabilize it
<B2IA> (cinati) Solaris is rock solid too
<Begasus> Never really got around to any BSD OS
<andreasdr[m]> I felt in love with NetBSD 2004
<andreasdr[m]> It was so clean and small and super performanant.
<andreasdr[m]> I tried it on at least 3 architectures those days.
<nosycat> It has great documentation too.
<Begasus> k, need to see how to link -lnetwork for gulrak_filesystem
<andreasdr[m]> MacPPC, X86, HP Jornada 720
<andreasdr[m]> That was fun
<andreasdr[m]> Yes. Documentation is very nice on all of the BSDs
<andreasdr[m]> I tried solaris not very seriously.
<andreasdr[m]> I for sure booted it once
<andreasdr[m]> Last time I checked Solaris it had no 3d stack.
<andreasdr[m]> Well.
<andreasdr[m]> All my jobs depend on 3d hw currently.
<andreasdr[m]> Did someone give Fuchsia a serious try?
<andreasdr[m]> Fuchsia wanted to become a Android replacement.
<andreasdr[m]> Maybe also interesting.
<andreasdr[m]> Travis Geiselbrecht was again working on Fuchsia AFAIK
<andreasdr[m]> Travis Geiselbrecht is the father of the NewOS and hence the HaikuOS kernel.
<andreasdr[m]> Arrrr. I am sending love to Travis Geiselbrecht :DDD
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<andreasdr[m]> Travis Geiselbrecht brought iOS on Arm to life.
<andreasdr[m]> Stuff like that.
<andreasdr[m]> Hihi.
<nosycat> My opinion of Fuchsia just went up a couple of notches.
<andreasdr[m]> Please tell us about it.
<nosycat> Didn't know who was working on it.
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<andreasdr[m]> Lots of people for sure.
<andreasdr[m]> Just wanted to mention Travis Geiselbrecht. He is worth a mention
<nosycat> People matter.
<PulkoMandy> you know he's right there on this channel, right? :)
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<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
* nosycat waves, then!
<andreasdr[m]> Hi Travis Geiselbrecht!
<Anarchos> hello
<Anarchos> i hope travis has not been fired with the recent news about hte fuchsia team
<andreasdr[m]> I heard about that too.
<andreasdr[m]> Whats going on now with Fuchsia?
<andreasdr[m]> Does someone know?
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<nosycat> Haven't followed the news, sorry.
<andreasdr[m]> I also did not follow that much.
* Anarchos recalls that the fuchsia team has been severly targeted by the layoffs at google
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<andreasdr[m]> Hm. Sad.
<foint[m]> :(
<nosycat> Par for the course.
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<nosycat> o/
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<Anarchos> hello BrunoSpr
<BrunoSpr> hallo
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<Anarchos> BrunoSpr i wanted to play aquaria you ported but i realized i need the files
<BrunoSpr> Anarchos... sorry it was not me porting Aquaria! Btw. you need the original files you can buy on GOG
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<Anarchos> BrunoSpr not enough money to purhcase games when you have kids…
<BrunoSpr> Anarchos sorry I dont have the game either!
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<andreasdr[m]> I recently bought Q2 for 5€. Yaaaaar.
<andreasdr[m]> I loved Quake2. Nice game.
<andreasdr[m]> :(
<nosycat> Great for multiplayer, too.
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<andreasdr[m]> Yes.
<andreasdr[m]> There is a RayTracing version out there of Q2. But I dont have a NVIDIA graphics card.
<andreasdr[m]> Think its NVIDIA only RT
<andreasdr[m]> Arrrrr.
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<BrunoSpr> Never tried multiplayer on Q2
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<Begasus> heading down, g'night peeps!
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<nosycat> Same. Bye!
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<andreasdr[m]> Bye!
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<jessicah> urgh, when you spend hours building llvm, and then you need to start from scratch :-/
<andreasdr[m]> Hell on Earth!
<andreasdr[m]> How long took that build? Like 20hrs?
<B2IA> (loveaddicts) hai
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<jessicah> andreasdr[m]: no, not 20 hours
<jessicah> maybe 4 or 5? I don't recall
<jessicah> I even built llvm in my linux vm just so I could have a comparison of why things differed :p
<jessicah> so this is my 3rd full build
<jessicah> plus many hours trying to figure out what was wrong in the first place...
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<jessicah> turns out location of the build dir confused a part of the cmake rules
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuporter] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuporter/compare/b10bfb8dcc7e...2894b31ea223
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuporter] davidkaroly 2894b31 - use relative paths in cmakeDirArgs
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<Anarchos> default constructor for BScrollView with or without layout support are ambiguous.
<Anarchos> if you don't specifiy flags or resize mode, they use the same mandatory parameters
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<andreasdr[m]> 5hrs. I see. Still lots of time.
<andreasdr[m]> May I ask what you are trying to do with llvm?
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<jessicah> andreasdr[m]: oh, just need a newer version of llvm
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<andreasdr[m]> Oh i seeeeeee.
<jessicah> last version available is llvm12, they're up to 15 now
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<jessicah> wonder if it's useful to add the other versions (13, 14), I dunno what their ABI guarantees are like
<jessicah> 1592 of 5468 targets done :) getting there
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<andreasdr[m]> Cool.
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<jessicah> x512[m]: looks like it's still in progress
<x512[m]> No specialists capable to write a recipe.
<jessicah> I'll push my llvm-15 recipe once I've finished the build
<jessicah> you should be able to use that if you wanna patch llvm15 further
<jessicah> I've migrated the patches from llvm12 to llvm15, since they didn't apply anymore, few other changes
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<jessicah> although looks like your tree is based in 15.0.7?
<andreasdr[m]> I love it!
<jessicah> github only showed two commits, so I dunno where your tree is at
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<x512[m]> jessicah: There are 2 Haiku related commits on top of history: https://github.com/X547/llvm-project/commits/llvm-haiku
<x512[m]> No existing HaikuPorts patches are used.
<x512[m]> Patches makes lld functional and set it as default.
<foint[m]> what is llvm?
<andreasdr[m]> The base of clang I would say. Clang is a competitive MIT licensed compiler suite just like GCC is.
<jessicah> it's a compiler infrastructure project
<jessicah> clang is a c/c++ frontend utilising llvm, and a bunch of other languages use llvm too
<andreasdr[m]> vertex and fragment shaders get also compiled with llvm? right x512?
<x512[m]> Mesa have 2 options for amdgpu shader compiler: LLVM and NIR. NIR is used by default for RADV.
<andreasdr[m]> Oh cool. Did not know.
<jessicah> zig, I think rust still uses llvm too, couple other notables
<x512[m]> NIR is Mesa own shader code generation framework.
<andreasdr[m]> Ah i see,
<jessicah> foint[m]: llvm has a bunch of companion tools, lldb (debugger like gdb), lld (linker like gnu ld), their own implementation of the c++ standard library (apple uses llvm)
<andreasdr[m]> FreeBSD also uses clang and llvm.
<jessicah> and then llvm as a compiler infrastructure project, you can have the rich language server things used in IDEs and the like
<jessicah> it powers a lot :)
<foint[m]> jessicah: Oh, so cool!
<jessicah> but yeah, takes a while to build...
<jessicah> my little intel nuc is pretty capable, but a few years old now
<jessicah> and Haiku has some issues with i/o
<jessicah> and maybe slow forking? dunno
<jessicah> pretty slow compared to linux, anyhow :p
<jessicah> get spoilt at how fast linux can compile stuff!