<waddlesplash>
stuff we all know well, of course, but it seems he found the developer internals documentation and links to it
<waddlesplash>
so that's cool, and it's clear he "did the reading" because he seems to know about and use some features that newcomers miss or misinterpret :)
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<BarmenduChakraborty[m]>
<waddlesplash> "someone has a pretty neat write..." <- That's awesome
<BarmenduChakraborty[m]>
I really have a hard time when it comes to package manager and searching for stuff in the haiku docs :P
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<alexa27>
will 32 bit beta 4 run under 256MB of ram?
<augiedoggie>
i think waddlesplash said earlier today that you could get by with 192MB
<augiedoggie>
when he was talking to someone else
<waddlesplash>
on the nightlies, at least, as far as I know
<waddlesplash>
beta4 may not boot with that little due to all the extra packages, not sure
<alexa27>
ok, thanks!
<waddlesplash>
but a nightly build, especially with a few hundred MB swap, will work fine in 256MB
<waddlesplash>
though modern web browsers won't
<alexa27>
ok
<alexa27>
sorry for being a noob on the subject, but how would I go about dual booting haiku and Windows xp?
<rennj>
but im a troll, cause i call out bullshit...NIH...i know it well...
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<matt1>
hi
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<felixp7>
Hello!
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<felixp7>
o/
<Anarchos>
hello felixp7
<felixp7>
I just installed Haiku beta 4 in a VM. My first time getting that far.
<felixp7>
Been following development for a very long time.
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* felixp7
waves!
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<Anarchos>
felixp7 if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask !
<felixp7>
Thank you! So far everything looks clear.
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<felixp7>
Nitpick: this is probably a known issue, but the install instructions refer to a BootManager app that's not there and not needed anymore, it seems.
<Anarchos>
BootManager is an application installed . You can launch it from Terminal
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<matt1>
is there anybody to talk about open source using skype ?
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<felixp7>
Anarchos: oh, there it was. But the installer took care of that already.
<Anarchos>
felixp7 yes installer is very clever nowadays :)
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<Anarchos>
mmu_man automatic connection ?
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<felixp7>
There. That's me, from HexChat. Switching clients now.
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<jessicah>
waddlesplash: heh, you like your long replies :p
<waddlesplash>
I do?
* waddlesplash
is trying to remember how often he types replies this long
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<jessicah>
well, that was definitely longer than most ;-)
<jessicah>
but you often have a giant paragraph in HN comments
<PulkoMandy>
You don't see me there because I do it mainly on the French Linuxfr.org :)
<jessicah>
:)
<PulkoMandy>
(and they keep gifting me books for articles I write there which is nice too)
<waddlesplash>
jessicah: pretty sure that usually happens when there's multiple questions in a comment and I reply to all at once with a short paragraph each
<jessicah>
or someone is "wrong" :)
<jessicah>
ah... comment sections :p
<waddlesplash>
well, this time nobody is wrong, and I'm just writing up a bunch of history and thoughts on community relevant to the comment about Linux vs. Haiku innovation
<jessicah>
indeed, was a good summary :)
<jessicah>
and was a good article
<andreasdr[m]>
Cool article.
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<zdykstra>
that was a great article that really highlights some of the neat features of Haiku
<zdykstra>
packagefs / previous states are A++ ideas
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 050515f6aefd - BFS: Fix missing trim of last range in a corner case.
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<zdykstra>
say I install package A, that drags in packages B, C, D as dependencies. When I uninstall package A, packages B, C and D are left installed. Is there any way to remove those dependencies automagically ?
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<waddlesplash>
unfortunately not
<waddlesplash>
there's still a ticket about implementing this
<zdykstra>
diff -u <( sort state_2023-02-17_14:21:06/activated-packages) <( sort state_2023-02-17_14:39:17/activated-packages ) to the rescue, then
<waddlesplash>
:)
<zdykstra>
wasn't sure if I was complicating it or not, heh
<waddlesplash>
yes, lots of workarounds possible thanks to how the system is designed!
<zdykstra>
it took 18 seconds from pressing the power button to being at a working Haiku desktop. That's pretty stellar.
<waddlesplash>
and the boot process is woefully unoptimized
<waddlesplash>
there is a ton of stuff in it that could be optimized considerably, not least of all packagefs initialization
<waddlesplash>
presuming packagefs state doesn't change across reboots, most of it could probably be cached
<nephele>
(I'd rather have it optimized to not initialize my display to white for 10 seconds before the desktop shows :P)
<waddlesplash>
and if the file cache allowed more data than requested to be read, some of the additional caching in packagefs could be cut out
<waddlesplash>
nephele: sounds like an intel_extreme bug?
<nephele>
radeon_hd in my case :)
<waddlesplash>
ah
<PulkoMandy>
we used to have code in intel_extreme to do no modesetting at all between the boot splash and the desktop, but that was removed :(
<PulkoMandy>
also, a possibly easy optimization is removing some stuff from the syslog at boot, for example all the PCI and HDA debug info, pkgman list of activated packages, etc. But that's all quite useful in bugreports and in some cases there are no other ways to get the info
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: yeah, why did that get changed? I saw those commits when browsing once but never actually read them
<nephele>
why would that slow down the boot though? isn't that just kept in memory?
<waddlesplash>
yes, syslog isn't written to disk until syslog_daemon starts
<PulkoMandy>
nephele, not if you have a serial port at least, it's sent there
<waddlesplash>
anything before then to syslog is a memory write
<waddlesplash>
oh, right, serial out
<PulkoMandy>
(somehow I still do on my desktop machine)
<nephele>
Would probably be an "easy" change to disable serial in haiku release builds for that then?
<PulkoMandy>
we already do
<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash, this code was suspected to break modesetting on some machines, but I don't think there was a strong proof of that. May be worth bringing it back
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<PulkoMandy>
but my next TODO list on graphics driver side is experimenting with multi display support in the EFI framebuffer driver (I saw RedOX OS does that)
<nephele>
okay :)
<nephele>
Perhaps we should make our own reFind theme and offer to install it ...
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<zdykstra>
PulkoMandy: multi-display, now that'd be quite neat :)
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<badkeming[m]>
if it's not feasible to actually do this (due to Haiku not supporting e.g. Mesa), OK.
<x512[m]>
> due to Haiku not supporting e.g. Mesa
<x512[m]>
?
<x512[m]>
radeonsi Mesa OpenGL driver seems use obsolete AMDGPU UAPI features, maybe it is a reason why it is currently not working.
<andreasdr[m]>
?
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<x512[m]>
There are 2 drivers in Mesa that supports the same Radeon GPUs: OpenGL (radeonsi) and Vulkan (RADV). Only Vulkan one is currently working on Haiku.
<andreasdr[m]>
Ah i see. Thank you.
<andreasdr[m]>
Any other news about your 3d work If I may ask? Also this Wine for 32 Bit thing sounds very interesting. Just asking :)
<badkeming[m]>
x512: I meant to imply that "I do not know how Haiku works re. OpenGL/Vulkan"
<badkeming[m]>
would just be cool if the Zink stuff could work on top of the RADV stuff =)
<x512[m]>
Zink is already working in Haiku. It can also run over software Vulkan implementation (meaningless but can be used for demonstration that Zink is working where Haiku hardware acceleration is not yet available).
<badkeming[m]>
cool!
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