ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<zdykstra> I used GNOME for a day, and now I'm back in Haiku tinkering on things. What a vast difference in how the systems feel.
<erysdren> haiku has a great feel, despite its shortcomings
<erysdren> linux pales in comparison much of the time.
<erysdren> (saying this as someone who uses linux every day on their desktop pc)
<win8linux[m]> Haiku is very much rooted in older OS designs, although not to an extent that it feels entirely archaic either.
<win8linux[m]> * older OS UI designs, although
<erysdren> yeah, and i love it for that
<erysdren> it's rooted in older UI designs, but it still feels good and responsive unlike many old OS's.
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<erysdren> howdy
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<win8linux[m]> I like that there is an option for single-window navigation. That's a newer UI feature than the classic Mac OS/Win95 era that BeOS (and by proxy Haiku) took cues from which is very good.
<erysdren> ah, you mean navigating folders inside one Tracker window?
<win8linux[m]> Yes
<erysdren> yeah, i like that a lot
<erysdren> definitely a good feature
<erysdren> i do wanna daily-drive Haiku one day, but i haven't found the motivation
<erysdren> mostly because i know it's gonna be a lot of shortcomings to put up with, especially with my current web browsing habits
<erysdren> i really wanna support Haiku over Linux though, in the long run
<win8linux[m]> Same
<erysdren> i think Haiku has the potential to be a fantastic single-user OS for both nerds and average people
<erysdren> just a few more barriers to get through
<win8linux[m]> There are usually periods of time every year that I do daily-drive Haiku.
<erysdren> i always keep a Haiku image ready for booting in QEMU
<erysdren> for testing ports and other things
<erysdren> i absolutely hate how linux/unix was never designed to be a desktop single-user operating system, and suffers greatly in the usability area for it
<erysdren> haiku solves a lot of these issues for me
<win8linux[m]> My desktop and laptop both have Haiku installs for testing ports.
<win8linux[m]> Found it better to build ports on bare metal with access to all CPU cores.
<erysdren> i had Haiku installed on a 2006 thinkpad, but i had to salvage the harddrive from that, so it's not installed on any of my machines currently
<win8linux[m]> Also, the speed difference between VM and bare metal is very noticeable.
<erysdren> oh for sure
<win8linux[m]> Tbh while I do like the general UX of single-user OSes, gotta admit that it's perhaps somewhat risky security-wise.
<win8linux[m]> Don't think that means Haiku should go in the usual Unix multi-user direction, though.
<win8linux[m]> Well, in the UI anyways.
<erysdren> sure, it's risky
<win8linux[m]> Some of the Haiku devs were previously talking about a capability-based security model, similar to what Fuchsia has.
<erysdren> yeah i was gonna say
<erysdren> i think it can be mitigated with good security practices and safeguards
<erysdren> not that i know what that entails exactly, but the kernel devs are smarter than me and could probably figure it out
<win8linux[m]> Users would be actual people, not just given to any process.
<erysdren> ahh, ok
<erysdren> thanks for the info
<win8linux[m]> Would be rather interesting to have a retro-style OS on the surface, but very modern under the hood.
<erysdren> i think that's the dream
<erysdren> if you strike a balance just right between old-style simplicity and modern capabilities you can have something great
<erysdren> and Haiku is well on its way, imo
<win8linux[m]> Haiku already has a better HiDPI story than Linux, for a start.
<erysdren> i used a 5:4 monitor for a brief time (power supply died after a month of use) and it was actually great. it was a replacement for a double-1080p monitor setup
<erysdren> it felt way more "compact" and i felt less overwhelmed sitting at my desk
<erysdren> and my eye strain was dramatically lower
<erysdren> i think it was 1280x1024
<erysdren> recent games were ok with the resolution for the most part, but the intro titles always assumed 16:9 and got cut off at the sides :P
<win8linux[m]> Haiku is also an immutable system, yet it doesn't feel as limited compared to others.
<erysdren> what does immutable mean in this context?
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<win8linux[m]> Base system cannot be directly changed
<erysdren> ah, right
<erysdren> yeah i remember getting a tad frustrated trying to adjust system files in haiku, whereas in linux it's almost nontrivial
<erysdren> er
<erysdren> trivial
<erysdren> anyways, maybe it doesn't matter. whatever i was doing probably didn't need to be done
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/a854cd0f039a...2005c61874b1
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk 2005c61 - libopenmpt: bump (#9317)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/2005c61874b1...13fbda2e922f
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk 13fbda2 - OpenBLAS: bump (#9318)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/13fbda2e922f...55d820c4f62f
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk 55d820c - Armadillo: bump (#9319)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/55d820c4f62f...95b4c5ad0270
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk 95b4c5a - Blaze: bump (#9320)
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/95b4c5ad0270...8c72e99a1f3d
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk 8c72e99 - Blis: bump (#9321)
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<erysdren> good morning Begasus
<Begasus> g'morning erysdren :)
<Begasus> small patch upstreamed and merged for qalculate-qt :)
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-1/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/8c72e99a1f3d...e54533bf2dad
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus e54533b - qalculate_qt, bump version, add translations/manpage (#9315)
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<OscarL> Aloha dudes!
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/e54533bf2dad...31cc4b09ea32
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 31cc4b0 - qalculate_qt, fix typo (#9323)
<Begasus> aloha OscarL :)
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<Begasus> superseded by the latter, so could/should be removed yes
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<OscarL> Hi Begasus :-). As the "bliss" PR stated that the older recipe was kept for compatibility, but this one said nothing... made me wonder.
<Begasus> can be cleaned on a next update I guess, extrowerk will read this also :)
<OscarL> +1
<Begasus> k working on a recipe for qxlsx, can be build for both Qt version, providing them into one recipe wont work as both provide a base and devel package (conflicting .so library too in the end) ... so probably end up writing 2 recipes for the both Qt versions
<Begasus> ah no, .so don't conflict :)
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<andreasdr[m]> Hi there.
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<Begasus> arrr andreasdr[m] :)
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<andreasdr[m]> Arrrr. Begasus!!!
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<botifico> [haiku/website] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://github.com/haiku/website/compare/b8c5fb592072...f7bc3ef9897b
<botifico> [haiku/website] Swangeon f7bc3ef - Adding VPN Support Project Update 7 (#653)
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<Anarchos> mail_daemon downloaded many emails from my outlook , deleting them from outlook servers. Is there a mean to send them back on my account ?
<OscarL> Anarchos: maybe this might help? (it is for Thunderbird, but if you can setup MDR as imap, it might work?) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1266661
<OscarL> Do backups before anything else, of course :-D
<OscarL> Begasus: my own ugly bulk-updater for changing supported Python versions on .recipes as just finished its first run (< 3 seconds for 155 files, not too shaby). Now... I need to manually review them alll, LMAO! /me gets some coffee.
<Anarchos> OscarL i think there is an imap server for outloook.live.com
<OscarL> I haven't used native email clients in at least 15 years so... that link is all I can do to help :-D. Wishing you luck with that Anarchos!
<Anarchos> OscarL should do if i create a new account as imap
<Anarchos> will do that tonight
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<Begasus> nice OscarL!
<Begasus> what's stopping it?
<OscarL> Doing some manual update in the 8 remaining recipes that need manual intervention, and I really want to triple check things :-D
<Begasus> ok, thanks for this!
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<matt5> xmpp or xmmp ?
<OscarL> your welcome! It is kinda fun to do. Except that seems I can't program sh*t: darn ugly script took me waaaaay more trial and errors attempts (over only one recipe) that I'd like to admit. Oh well... beats doing it manually :-P
<matt5> hi OscarL : peace !!! ;)
<OscarL> Hello matt5! and /me preffers xmms :-P
<matt5> to everybody : peace ;)
<matt5> hi OscarL : fine and freedom ;)
<matt5> to everybody : freedom ;)
<Begasus> OscarL, can you add a version check/bump there too? :P
<OscarL> You mean like... check if there's a new version, and autoupdate the recipe?
<Begasus> yep ;)
<Begasus> but seeing how setuptools evolved that could be tricky ;)
<OscarL> yeah, that's the bad part, other than that... Given enough head-banging against my keyboard.... should be doable :-)
<Begasus> heh
<OscarL> If we had a buildmaster for testing... we could do it anyway... and then just manually work on the ones that fail :-D
<Begasus> given your choice on metal that would speed things up :D
<OscarL> heh
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<OscarL> matt5: available on Haiku :-D ("pkgman install qmmp")
<OscarL> I just wish we had CL-Amp sources instead :-(
<matt5> fine .. i have tried time ago ... very nice also visuasl=>double
<Begasus> one of my favorite ones is QMPlay2 :)
<Begasus> or just use StreamRadio (Haiku native)
<zdykstra> morning all
<matt5> i will install haiku under virtualbox ...
<Begasus> g'morning zdykstra
<Begasus> again matt5?
<matt5> yeha, it is a good exercise ... ;)
<Begasus> 3 tests, 0 failed
<matt5> tabula rasa ...
<matt5> installed qbtorrent client @ ubuntu ...
<matt5> downloaded haiku os 64 bit ...
<Begasus> heading out for a bit, wife needs kine ...
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<matt5> installed ... 1024 mb ram ... 24G vhdd
<OscarL> /me googles kine = "Plural of cow".... yeah.... I get that hungry sometimes too! :-P (best of luck with the therapy!)
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<matt5> first there is the emotional sphere ... then science ;)
<matt5> so : love to you ... :)
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<Begasus> re
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<cocobean> But don't you... step on my blue suede shoes....
<mr_lou> What is the best webbrowser for Haiku? :)
<Begasus> depends on your needs mr_lou
<Begasus> for me Web+ and Otter are fine (but that's just me) :)
<zdykstra> Web+ for most things, Web(Epiphany) for sites that are really complex
<mr_lou> WebPositive? Is that what you mean?
<zdykstra> yes
<mr_lou> Ok
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<matt5> my real name is Andrea Allegri ...
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/31cc4b09ea32...0e0d38832b54
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 0e0d388 - avra, bump version (#9326)
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<cocobean> Begasus: For AGG, I corrected the license.
<Begasus> thanks cocobean :)
<cocobean> Can we see if it builds?
<cocobean> ;)
<Begasus> it still uses the snapshot which has been dis-advised (wonders if that's a real word) :)
<cocobean> If it doesn't build and work as expected... then I'd agree.
<cocobean> But, it works OK for everything I've tested.
<cocobean> Even... matplotlib. ;)
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<cocobean> ...and gnash.
<Begasus> yeah saw that, I'm not the one to convince here :) (and not the only one with merge access)
<cocobean> "Young people hold the key to creating a better future..."
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<Begasus> as an old(er) peep I don't always agree :P
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<OscarL> Man, this lxml build is slower than my brain :-/
<OscarL> "Building without Cython." mmm
<Begasus> that counts for something OscarL :)
<OscarL> From requirements.txt --> "Cython>=0.29.7" :-/
<OscarL> build finished. I think I'll just add it to my list of recipes to fix up, but AFTER this bulk-update. I want this change to be "no functional changes only".
<Begasus> probably can't catch them all in one go, those left behind can be tackled individualy?
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<OscarL> I'm currently doing some manual touch up on a few recipes (removing 3.8, and making sure the recipes are more inline with what we do now, to ease future automated changes)...
<Begasus> tons of work then ;)
<OscarL> But not adding Python 3.10, for example, so... we might do that while fixing further issues (like this lxml missing cython).
<OscarL> Hoping to open the bulk-update PR in an hour or so :-)
<Begasus> ok, will check again later, food now :)
<OscarL> enjoy!
<Begasus> thanks :)
<OscarL> Welp, took less than an hour :-P
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<Begasus> already done?
<OscarL> yup!
<OscarL> I think it should clear up the report.txt on buildmasters (assuming all goes well).
<Begasus> OK nice, I'm not checking on individual changes on the PR though :)
<Begasus> good to go then?
<OscarL> LGTM! (and ready to fix what breaks, tomorrow :-P)
<Begasus> +1
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±154] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/0e0d38832b54...70ac5caddab3
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] OscarL 70ac5ca - python3.8: bulk removal of now obsolete "_python38" packages. (#9328)
<Begasus> crossing fingers :)
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<OscarL> yeah :-D
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<OscarL> Mmm, one package failed already missing "pathtools_python310"... Ah... not build dependency, but runtime. korli said it is ok to get those.
<OscarL> Heh, "pathtools" already on my "Add 3.10" ToDo list :-D
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<Begasus> one down ... * to go :)
<Begasus> speaking off, heading down here too
<Begasus> need to check latest bmake on 32bit tomorrow :)
<Begasus> cu peeps!
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<nerdistmonk> Is basilisk II ever going to be ported to haiku 64bit?
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<OscarL> Begasus: [if you read the logs] last 3 PRs for me to be merged in order: #9329, #9330, #9331. These should fix the root cause of about half of the issues that popped after the bulk-update. Some might require rev-bump to trigger rebuild, I think. Will look into it tomorrow.
<OscarL> Begasus: all in all, things went really smoothly! /me unplugs. Later!
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