<zdykstra>
I used GNOME for a day, and now I'm back in Haiku tinkering on things. What a vast difference in how the systems feel.
<erysdren>
haiku has a great feel, despite its shortcomings
<erysdren>
linux pales in comparison much of the time.
<erysdren>
(saying this as someone who uses linux every day on their desktop pc)
<win8linux[m]>
Haiku is very much rooted in older OS designs, although not to an extent that it feels entirely archaic either.
<win8linux[m]>
* older OS UI designs, although
<erysdren>
yeah, and i love it for that
<erysdren>
it's rooted in older UI designs, but it still feels good and responsive unlike many old OS's.
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<erysdren>
howdy
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<win8linux[m]>
I like that there is an option for single-window navigation. That's a newer UI feature than the classic Mac OS/Win95 era that BeOS (and by proxy Haiku) took cues from which is very good.
<erysdren>
ah, you mean navigating folders inside one Tracker window?
<win8linux[m]>
Yes
<erysdren>
yeah, i like that a lot
<erysdren>
definitely a good feature
<erysdren>
i do wanna daily-drive Haiku one day, but i haven't found the motivation
<erysdren>
mostly because i know it's gonna be a lot of shortcomings to put up with, especially with my current web browsing habits
<erysdren>
i really wanna support Haiku over Linux though, in the long run
<win8linux[m]>
Same
<erysdren>
i think Haiku has the potential to be a fantastic single-user OS for both nerds and average people
<erysdren>
just a few more barriers to get through
<win8linux[m]>
There are usually periods of time every year that I do daily-drive Haiku.
<erysdren>
i always keep a Haiku image ready for booting in QEMU
<erysdren>
for testing ports and other things
<erysdren>
i absolutely hate how linux/unix was never designed to be a desktop single-user operating system, and suffers greatly in the usability area for it
<erysdren>
haiku solves a lot of these issues for me
<win8linux[m]>
My desktop and laptop both have Haiku installs for testing ports.
<win8linux[m]>
Found it better to build ports on bare metal with access to all CPU cores.
<erysdren>
i had Haiku installed on a 2006 thinkpad, but i had to salvage the harddrive from that, so it's not installed on any of my machines currently
<win8linux[m]>
Also, the speed difference between VM and bare metal is very noticeable.
<erysdren>
oh for sure
<win8linux[m]>
Tbh while I do like the general UX of single-user OSes, gotta admit that it's perhaps somewhat risky security-wise.
<win8linux[m]>
Don't think that means Haiku should go in the usual Unix multi-user direction, though.
<win8linux[m]>
Well, in the UI anyways.
<erysdren>
sure, it's risky
<win8linux[m]>
Some of the Haiku devs were previously talking about a capability-based security model, similar to what Fuchsia has.
<erysdren>
yeah i was gonna say
<erysdren>
i think it can be mitigated with good security practices and safeguards
<erysdren>
not that i know what that entails exactly, but the kernel devs are smarter than me and could probably figure it out
<win8linux[m]>
Users would be actual people, not just given to any process.
<win8linux[m]>
Would be rather interesting to have a retro-style OS on the surface, but very modern under the hood.
<erysdren>
i think that's the dream
<erysdren>
if you strike a balance just right between old-style simplicity and modern capabilities you can have something great
<erysdren>
and Haiku is well on its way, imo
<win8linux[m]>
Haiku already has a better HiDPI story than Linux, for a start.
<erysdren>
i used a 5:4 monitor for a brief time (power supply died after a month of use) and it was actually great. it was a replacement for a double-1080p monitor setup
<erysdren>
it felt way more "compact" and i felt less overwhelmed sitting at my desk
<erysdren>
and my eye strain was dramatically lower
<erysdren>
i think it was 1280x1024
<erysdren>
recent games were ok with the resolution for the most part, but the intro titles always assumed 16:9 and got cut off at the sides :P
<win8linux[m]>
Haiku is also an immutable system, yet it doesn't feel as limited compared to others.
<erysdren>
what does immutable mean in this context?
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<win8linux[m]>
Base system cannot be directly changed
<erysdren>
ah, right
<erysdren>
yeah i remember getting a tad frustrated trying to adjust system files in haiku, whereas in linux it's almost nontrivial
<erysdren>
er
<erysdren>
trivial
<erysdren>
anyways, maybe it doesn't matter. whatever i was doing probably didn't need to be done
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<Begasus>
superseded by the latter, so could/should be removed yes
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<OscarL>
Hi Begasus :-). As the "bliss" PR stated that the older recipe was kept for compatibility, but this one said nothing... made me wonder.
<Begasus>
can be cleaned on a next update I guess, extrowerk will read this also :)
<OscarL>
+1
<Begasus>
k working on a recipe for qxlsx, can be build for both Qt version, providing them into one recipe wont work as both provide a base and devel package (conflicting .so library too in the end) ... so probably end up writing 2 recipes for the both Qt versions
<Begasus>
ah no, .so don't conflict :)
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<OscarL>
Do backups before anything else, of course :-D
<OscarL>
Begasus: my own ugly bulk-updater for changing supported Python versions on .recipes as just finished its first run (< 3 seconds for 155 files, not too shaby). Now... I need to manually review them alll, LMAO! /me gets some coffee.
<Anarchos>
OscarL i think there is an imap server for outloook.live.com
<OscarL>
I haven't used native email clients in at least 15 years so... that link is all I can do to help :-D. Wishing you luck with that Anarchos!
<Anarchos>
OscarL should do if i create a new account as imap
<Anarchos>
will do that tonight
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<OscarL>
Doing some manual update in the 8 remaining recipes that need manual intervention, and I really want to triple check things :-D
<Begasus>
ok, thanks for this!
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<matt5>
xmpp or xmmp ?
<OscarL>
your welcome! It is kinda fun to do. Except that seems I can't program sh*t: darn ugly script took me waaaaay more trial and errors attempts (over only one recipe) that I'd like to admit. Oh well... beats doing it manually :-P
<matt5>
hi OscarL : peace !!! ;)
<OscarL>
Hello matt5! and /me preffers xmms :-P
<matt5>
to everybody : peace ;)
<matt5>
hi OscarL : fine and freedom ;)
<matt5>
to everybody : freedom ;)
<Begasus>
OscarL, can you add a version check/bump there too? :P
<OscarL>
You mean like... check if there's a new version, and autoupdate the recipe?
<Begasus>
yep ;)
<Begasus>
but seeing how setuptools evolved that could be tricky ;)
<OscarL>
yeah, that's the bad part, other than that... Given enough head-banging against my keyboard.... should be doable :-)
<Begasus>
heh
<OscarL>
If we had a buildmaster for testing... we could do it anyway... and then just manually work on the ones that fail :-D
<Begasus>
given your choice on metal that would speed things up :D
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 0e0d388 - avra, bump version (#9326)
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<cocobean>
Begasus: For AGG, I corrected the license.
<Begasus>
thanks cocobean :)
<cocobean>
Can we see if it builds?
<cocobean>
;)
<Begasus>
it still uses the snapshot which has been dis-advised (wonders if that's a real word) :)
<cocobean>
If it doesn't build and work as expected... then I'd agree.
<cocobean>
But, it works OK for everything I've tested.
<cocobean>
Even... matplotlib. ;)
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<cocobean>
...and gnash.
<Begasus>
yeah saw that, I'm not the one to convince here :) (and not the only one with merge access)
<cocobean>
"Young people hold the key to creating a better future..."
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<Begasus>
as an old(er) peep I don't always agree :P
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<OscarL>
Man, this lxml build is slower than my brain :-/
<OscarL>
"Building without Cython." mmm
<Begasus>
that counts for something OscarL :)
<OscarL>
From requirements.txt --> "Cython>=0.29.7" :-/
<OscarL>
build finished. I think I'll just add it to my list of recipes to fix up, but AFTER this bulk-update. I want this change to be "no functional changes only".
<Begasus>
probably can't catch them all in one go, those left behind can be tackled individualy?
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<OscarL>
I'm currently doing some manual touch up on a few recipes (removing 3.8, and making sure the recipes are more inline with what we do now, to ease future automated changes)...
<Begasus>
tons of work then ;)
<OscarL>
But not adding Python 3.10, for example, so... we might do that while fixing further issues (like this lxml missing cython).
<OscarL>
Hoping to open the bulk-update PR in an hour or so :-)
<Begasus>
ok, will check again later, food now :)
<OscarL>
enjoy!
<Begasus>
thanks :)
<OscarL>
Welp, took less than an hour :-P
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<Begasus>
already done?
<OscarL>
yup!
<OscarL>
I think it should clear up the report.txt on buildmasters (assuming all goes well).
<Begasus>
OK nice, I'm not checking on individual changes on the PR though :)
<Begasus>
good to go then?
<OscarL>
LGTM! (and ready to fix what breaks, tomorrow :-P)
<nerdistmonk>
Is basilisk II ever going to be ported to haiku 64bit?
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<OscarL>
Begasus: [if you read the logs] last 3 PRs for me to be merged in order: #9329, #9330, #9331. These should fix the root cause of about half of the issues that popped after the bulk-update. Some might require rev-bump to trigger rebuild, I think. Will look into it tomorrow.
<OscarL>
Begasus: all in all, things went really smoothly! /me unplugs. Later!