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<janking>
good morning to you all
<erysdren>
good morning janking
<OscarL>
Hello erysdren and janking. Wishing you all have a good day.
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<Begasus>
morning peeps
<MonniTheCat>
Morning Begasus
<Begasus>
morning MonniTheCat
<OscarL>
Hallo Begasus. Hei MonniTheCat.
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL
<janking>
good morning to u all :)
<erysdren>
good morning Begasus
<OscarL>
Hola janking. Greetings from Argentina :-)
<OscarL>
erysdren: nice to see you around too :-) Hope you're well.
<janking>
yes i am verry well OscarL
<OscarL>
I'm glad to read that!
<Begasus>
Hi janking erysdren
<OscarL>
Firefox's handling of arrow keys shortcuts on "pop up video windows" makes me want to punch someone. left/right keys for backward/forward, up/down for volume control... how hard can it be?
<Begasus>
patches welcome? :P
<OscarL>
who the hell will expect left/right to control volume by default, unless you first "click" on the darn video window?
<OscarL>
Begasus: I can't even handle proper patches into HaikuPorts... still have a long way before sending patches "upstream" :-P
<Begasus>
having the patches in haikuports is already more then half to send them upstream OscarL :)
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<OscarL>
I see what you mean... still... I guess handling the actuall upstreaming of patches can be quite a burden, at least with some projects?
<OscarL>
Otherwise... more of our Python patches could have been upstreamed already, I would think, for example.
<OscarL>
Best I could do was to try to squash/simplify/separate some commits a bit, but actually upstreaming? out of my league. I bet I couldn't handle most of review/followup question they migt rise, for example :-D
<OscarL>
Begasus: minor good news from the Python front: got Python 3.13.0rc3 to start up in under 100ms. Best time I've seen so far with any version in Haiku.
<OscarL>
(that after I applied some patches I did for 3.12 originally, still, 3.13 went a bit faster still)
<Begasus>
lot's of patches around that have been sitting silently, too bad they never got upstreamed
<Begasus>
can't go around upstreaming them all by myself :P
<Begasus>
good news on python then :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: I totally understand you. My thoughts usually go... even korli hasn't sent this upstream... I don't stand a chance! :-D
<OscarL>
re: Python 3.13.0.... I'm really liking it so far!
<OscarL>
we will have to wait a proper release, and for packages/libraries to catch up... but, 3.13.0 might be a good candidate for the next "default Python in Haiku", from what I've seen so far.
<Begasus>
nice!
<OscarL>
I just wish I was smart enough to help fix some of the issues all our Python have with locks/threads/forks/etc :-(
<OscarL>
best I managed to do so far, is making the test-suite run more or less predictable.
<OscarL>
and documenting where the problems manifest. Oh well... some day we will get a proper "python expert" :-D
<Begasus>
k, first morning run done :)
<Begasus>
we all could use some extra knowlidge OscarL :)
<OscarL>
32 bits buildmaster back at work it seems? cool.
<Begasus>
wished I could actually do some code :)
<Begasus>
ah? didn't check yet there
<OscarL>
Begasus: And yet you manage to do a LOT of awesome work still! We are so lucky to have you!
<Begasus>
error: 'htmlparser_states_external' was not declared in this scope; did you mean 'htmlparser_state_external_enum'?
<Begasus>
what am I missing? this worked in Terminal :)
<Begasus>
thnx :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: about that "htmlparser_states_external" error... which .recipe or upstream repo?
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<Begasus>
OscarL, think I already mentioned cmakeDirArgs on that one some time ago :)
<OscarL>
Guess that was on the original PR. in any case, the point of my PR is basically to fix the PROVIDES for 32 bits.
<OscarL>
there should be a pinned issue in Haikuports about SDL ports and BGLView::UnlockGL().
<OscarL>
*... related crashes.
<OscarL>
*SDL2
<OscarL>
Or a "master ticket" where the rest of the affected packages can be listed.
<Begasus>
probably spread throughout the tickets atm, needs a master to control them :)
<OscarL>
I would say that if a given crash report mentions SDL and UnlockGL()... pretty safe to assume they have the same root cause (given the history of bugs so far)
<OscarL>
In any case, what I had in mind is... maybe let user know before hand that ports using SDL2 are prone to crash (or have issues) related to OpenGL.
<OscarL>
so we don't end up with a bazillion issues for the same root problem
<Begasus[m]>
think it's hard to do at haikuports side?
<OscarL>
you mean hard to pin an issue? or something else?
<Begasus>
hard to pin an issue
<Begasus>
one could add tags, but otherwise never seen it done iirc
<OscarL>
Seen plenty of pinned issues on other projects, at least, so it can't be *that* hard.
<OscarL>
but I have zero experience managing public repos/projects, so... what do I know? :-D
<MonniTheCat>
It was a lot easier when Jeremy was the definite person maintaining BeShare and MUSCLE...
<MonniTheCat>
It's hard to keep up with "forks" when someone updates one repository and then gets distracted and someone else takes over... Nothing goes "upstream"...
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<Begasus>
hi Kokito!
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* OscarL
waves Jorge as well :-)
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<Kokito>
Hola OscarL!
<Kokito>
Hello Begasus!
<Kokito>
Playing with DockBert for the first time. Nice!
<OscarL>
while I have read about similar issues from other users, I never had that issue myself.
<OscarL>
not even the worst behaving of my netbooks gives that error.
<Habbie>
"did not find any boot partitions"
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<OscarL>
which from a (current) end user point of view, is not very helpful.
<Habbie>
yes
<MonniTheCat>
That screenshot has a lot of noise due to probing all different filesystems on the partition...
<OscarL>
being able to manage partitions (and boot issues) is fast becomming a lost "art" it seems.
<Habbie>
MonniTheCat, "but what partition"
<MonniTheCat>
It should only need the Haiku boot partition... It depends on if it's using UEFI or not...
<OscarL>
IIRC, sometimes the issue is that users create the partiotion as BFS, but forget to format it as BFS. or format a pre-existing partition as BFS, without actually changing the partition type, or something like that.
<Habbie>
crmsnbleyd, is this -after- install?
<OscarL>
thus why we have some folks advocating for making DriveSetup do the create-partition/format-partition an "atomic" operation.
<Habbie>
makes sense
<MonniTheCat>
I had to enable MBR boot just to get Haiku started... UEFI just wouldn't work... Not all BIOS allow emulating MBR boot...
<OscarL>
"re-using" partitions (that were previously used for other OSes) can also be a source of problems, IIRC.
<OscarL>
or creating them in advance with tools that are not really BeOS/Haiku aware.
<OscarL>
Never had any issues while using Ranish Partition Manager, at least :-D (man, I'm old! :-D)
<MonniTheCat>
usually changing the partition type and using legacy boot is enough... For the sake of reusing same hard disk without legacy boot, I also updated the EFI partition...
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<OscarL>
"MBR boot" sounds innacurate. Some BIOS allow booting in BIOS mode even from GPT partitioned disks.
<MonniTheCat>
I have GPT partitioned disk...
<OscarL>
not sure if UEFI allows booting from MBR-style partitioning.
<Habbie>
OscarL, don't think it does
<OscarL>
MonniTheCat: I mean that the distinction is usually BIOS boot vs UEFI boot, not "MBR boot" vs "UEFI boot".
<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: Well... There is MBR vs. VBR boot... pretty much install Haiku boot loader on the partition instead of start of disk...
<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: With "legacy" boot, the bootloader has offset to the Haiku partition, so it doesn't need to analyze the partition table to find boot partition... It's simple raw seek and read...
<OscarL>
partition boot record being a thing... yes. I used that a lot just to be able to use BeOS (and the Haiku's) BootManager to chainload silly Grub (installed in a partition and not on MBR).
<gordonjcp>
ugh, now i know soooo much about the Data Protection Act
<gordonjcp>
I don't have an answer to my question though
<gordonjcp>
my entire morning that I'd planned to spend hacking on Haiku is pretty burst
<MonniTheCat>
I spent a lot of morning trying to find download site for Thunderbird that didn't nag about donating... just because the automatic update stopped working...
<MonniTheCat>
Miss the days I could just use Eudora... Gonna stay away from Outlook 365 for ever...
<Begasus>
MonniTheCat, checked repology?
<Begasus>
I know for one, Arch somtimes supplies a archive link
<Begasus>
k, no changes for last release and latest commit checkout on ctemplate, both crash at the same place for the tests :)
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<OscarL>
Last email clients I cared about enough to remember: kaufman mail warrior, and i.Scribe. Both usable from a floppy disk I carried over to a "cyber caffe" once in a while (as late as 2008).
<OscarL>
having to walk 8 km up and down to get/send some mails... so fun.
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<Begasus[m]>
bbl (I hope)
<crmsnbleyd>
omg fellas I think the issue is because I used ventoy lol
<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: My parents had enough money that they ordered 7.2 km of cable just to get us internet at home...
<OscarL>
nice :-)
<MonniTheCat>
We were supposed to get only 256 kbit/s, but as nobody else used the cable, it just used the fastest supported speed...
<OscarL>
crmsnbleyd: that might be. for Haiku, you need to write the .iso to the USB drive in "raw" mode, and not just copy it over it.
<OscarL>
crmsnbleyd: the only "multi-boot" tool that I'm aware of that claims to support Haiku is "Easy2Boot", but that works just by messing around partition 4 in the USB drive's MBR, and while it worked the one time I've tried... Easy2Boot is just a mess.
<crmsnbleyd>
used etcher like suggested, let's see how it goes
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<Anarchos>
Hello
<Anarchos>
Hello
<OscarL>
MonniTheCat: I was doing work for a SoCal startup in late 2015... PC connected to internet via USB tethering... with a pre-paid data plan from cell company... at mindblowing 30 KB/s :-D
<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: I was piggybacking WiFi of company next door because they forgot to add any authentication... When I looked up router of our company, I found package of toilet paper instead...
<OscarL>
(only got "proper" internet at home about 2.5/3 years ago)
<MonniTheCat>
I got dial-up internet after my 18th birthday... The phone bill was around 2000 FIM, so my parents were really happy...
<OscarL>
ah... the good old days of "hang-up the phone! I was downloading something, you idiot!" :-D
<MonniTheCat>
1 EUR used to be 5.94573 FIM, but the inflation has been so high in last 20+ years that it's closer to 1 EUR = 0.5 FIM...
<Anarchos>
if i want to do a recurring donation to Haiku Inc., what is the best way to do it ?
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<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: We had two phone lines and each computer had own modem... after we got DSL, we installer coaxial Ethernet to connect all computers together... Best years we had 21 computers...
<OscarL>
Anarchos: seems like via github sponsors (due to it having no fees)
<OscarL>
MonniTheCat: two lines... DSL... nice! "sneaker net" was best we could do down here, heh :-D
<crmsnbleyd>
Installed on the USB drive instead of hard disk :0
<crmsnbleyd>
also no WiFi or touchpad! Time to copy drivers from linux
<OscarL>
Anarchos: on behalf of those of us that are unable to make donations to Haiku... thanks for considering doing so.
<OscarL>
crmsnbleyd: you can't "copy drivers from Linux".
<crmsnbleyd>
you know what I mean
<crmsnbleyd>
Wait what's the haiku license
<OscarL>
MIT.
<MonniTheCat>
OscarL: My dad didn't understand the concept of money, so he bought everything using company credit card... After few decades the company went bankrupt but we still could keep everything he bought...
<OscarL>
also... what do you mean "it installed on the USB" ? The iso you wrote to the USB drive should be boot usable as installer and as a "live" environment.
<crmsnbleyd>
So somehow the actual installation happened on the USB? And when you select it on the boot menu it just loads up Haiku instead of showing the installer
<OscarL>
if you used the Installer application... are you sure you properly setup the partitions? because it won't just use the USB all by itself.
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<OscarL>
crmsnbleyd: if you somehow dismissed the installer the first time... it will indeed boot into a "live" environment.
<crmsnbleyd>
hmm let's try again and see
<OscarL>
you can just open the Deskbar menu, and from there use Applications->Installer.
<crmsnbleyd>
let me see, thanks for the tip
<crmsnbleyd>
okie it indeed is the live image
<crmsnbleyd>
Though I'm getting a blinking curson and nothing else after the vendor logo on booting from drive, which is why I thought the installation was broken
<OscarL>
specially for UEFI mode.. it won't do things automatically for you.
<OscarL>
if you're already using grub... you need to add Haiku to grub's menu.
<OscarL>
let me see if I can find some simple instructions on doing that.
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<crmsnbleyd>
somehow,,,,
<crmsnbleyd>
I booted into the disk drive
<crmsnbleyd>
By restarting from the live image
<OscarL>
the USB drive has a boot loader, and can detect the installation from the HDD and boot from it.
<MonniTheCat>
Live image scans boot volume from all drives, not just the same drive...
<crmsnbleyd>
At least the installation works :)
<OscarL>
but unless you properly configure your current boot loader to chaingload the Haiku bootloader... you won't be able to boot into Haiku without that USB :-D
<crmsnbleyd>
Yea trying the UEFI instructions you've sent
<Begasus[m]>
k, so far the idea of trying to swap the drives
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<nephele>
hmmm, ubuntu doesn't boot anymore... maybe that drive is just bad
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<MonniTheCat>
I switched from Ubuntu back to Debian, because some updates just broke everything...
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<nipos>
Anarchos: Maybe I'm too late now, but Liberapay accepts euro directly using SEPA transfer. That's how I donate.
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<nipos>
https://liberapay.com/haiku.inc Hm, they show the amount as US Dollars now, thought they were showing Euro. My recurring invoice setup one or two years ago still directly takes Euro, however.
<Anarchos>
nipos ok will consider.
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 9f07fe52a456 - kernel/vm: Don't commit memory for non-private clones in vm_clone_area.
<Peppersawce>
@Begasus pretty hilarious that the majority of recipes I submitted ended up raising issues on the gihub... also pretty sad
<Peppersawce>
Anyway about the Wesnoth issue my hunch is that it's SDL-related. I looked around and there were similar closed issues all with SDL in common. Also, other sdl apps suffer from the same issues
<nephele>
oh, sdl issues. now i'm interested :D
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<Peppersawce>
lol
<Peppersawce>
apparently sdl apps crash if you try and resize them
<Peppersawce>
Or minimize them when they're in full screen
<nephele>
hmmm, sdl1 or sdl2? My game didn't use to do that
<Peppersawce>
sdl2
<Peppersawce>
Not all of them though, ecwolf for instance has window resizing disabled and only fakes fullscreen so it isn't affected at all
<nephele>
any specific sdl2 version?
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<Peppersawce>
I have 2.30.2
<Peppersawce>
Could this be caused by apps compiling against internal headers/libs or something?
<nephele>
the game called debugger on it's own it seems.
<Peppersawce>
Like, ecwolf compiling against Haiku SDL so it has the broken features disabled and the others using other versions?
<nephele>
> Could this be caused by apps compiling against internal headers/libs or something?
<nephele>
Uhh, not gonna answer that before i check it out :P
<Peppersawce>
Fair, I'm mostly ignorant about these things anyway :D
<nephele>
you can run the game and then run listimage to see which libraries it actually uses
<Peppersawce>
kk I'll try
<nephele>
Begasus: no debug symbols for sdl2? :(
<Begasus>
haven't touched SDL2 in years nephele
<Peppersawce>
it's using /boot/system/lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0.3000.2 /boot/system/lib/libSDL2_image-2.0.so.0.2.3 /boot/system/lib/libSDL2_mixer-2.0.so.0.2.2
<Peppersawce>
which are all current as far as I can tell
<Begasus>
ah hi Peppersawce, didn't see you in there :)
<Peppersawce>
Hi :)
<Begasus>
ccache kept me busy
<Peppersawce>
no worries, didn't miss much
<Peppersawce>
It's basically what I wrote in the ticket anyway
<Begasus>
yeah, things tend to raise issues, some can be resolved, some can't (atleast not with my skills) :)
<Begasus>
yeah, just saw that
<Peppersawce>
Cool, yeah, I'm basically in the same boat, I don't know how one would fix that issue
<Begasus>
me has never been a great fan of SDL2 :)
<Peppersawce>
So I'm trying to figure out why some sdl2 apps have workarounds for the issues and some don't
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<Peppersawce>
Like, if you test ecwolf from the recipe I put up there, it's sdl2 but it has non of the functionality that makes other sdl stuff crash
<Peppersawce>
*none
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<Begasus>
too bad my VM isn't up for the larger projects atm
<Peppersawce>
:(
<Begasus>
even building ccache is a pain
<nephele>
im building webkit in a vm :D
<nephele>
Begasus: maybe use distcc?
<Begasus>
distcc?
<nephele>
yeah. It's a compiler suite you can use to distribute compile jobs over the network. You could use it to have the Host of your vm compile the actual meaty stuff, while the vm only prepares the jobs
<nephele>
or use other pcs in your network to help speed up the compile
<Begasus>
not familiar with that :) also, not sure how this will work with haikuporter?
<Begasus>
for the record, ccache isn't meaty also :)
<nephele>
I think you tell it to use distcc as c compiler instead of gcc, not sure how that works with haikuporter
<Begasus>
epiphany taking too much resources doesn't help also :(
<Begasus>
have to kill it to make it stop
<nephele>
not that haikuwebkit is better in that regard
<nephele>
also have sites that just eat memory and then never release it even if you close the tab
<Peppersawce>
Web+ does fare better at browsing while compiling in my experience because the others crash or freeze
<Peppersawce>
Granted, it is incredibly slow in that situation, but still, it's slightly better imo :)
<nephele>
Seems SDL2 is build in "Release" mode and not "RelWithDebugInfo"
<Begasus>
k, off to dogschool, I'll let nheko finish up for later to test again
<Begasus>
cu l8r peeps
<Peppersawce>
cya
<dovsienko>
I would like to enable both CPU cores on the box so when it boots Linux it can use that, and when it boots Haiku, it would be convenient not to go into the BIOS setup to change the CPU to run single-core
<dovsienko>
#disable_smp true
<dovsienko>
nephele: thank you!
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<nephele>
fixed those damn scrollbar colors in webkit
<nephele>
that was pissing me off quite a bit
<Skipp_OSX>
thank you
<Skipp_OSX>
somebody got creative with the scroll bars
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: sadly webkit (currently) does not actually use the controllook to draw the scrollbars
<nephele>
but instead re-implements how they are drawn in HaikuControlLook with lower level (button drawing) primitives .-.
<Skipp_OSX>
Well I flushed out scroll bars in control look to draw each of the pieces separately
<Skipp_OSX>
It was a bit of a mess before, anyway, so the WebKit part needs updating which I haven't touched because I looked at it and was like, nope, not for me.
<nephele>
I want to update the webkit parts to just call the relevant functions
<nephele>
maybe also taking into account if the window is in-focus or not. currently it does not care
<nephele>
(though the out-of-focus scrollbars in dark mode look disabled. don't really like that)
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<Skipp_OSX>
I mean, aren't they supposed to look disabled?
<Skipp_OSX>
like in the screenshot posted above: https://0x0.st/XErG.png the Vision scrollbars look disabled bc they are in the bg
<nephele>
I dunno. That always confused me. Since Disabled is also the style used when there is nothing to scroll
<nephele>
from a glance i can't tell apart if there is for example backlog in vision or not if another window is in focus
<nephele>
(and maybe obscuring it partially)
<nephele>
hmm, other simple visual things to fix? :D
<nephele>
Oh, by the way. i saw safari fixed link colors in dark mode. I'm hoping it works now properly
<Skipp_OSX>
We don't really differentiate between disabled and unfocused visually.
<nephele>
maybe we should *shrug*
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean, we could do better, and I'm sure there is room for improvement
<nephele>
Ideally webkit should just call the controllook with whatever info it has access too
<nephele>
and if we then improve upon this it would just use that
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<Skipp_OSX>
shouldn't it be blue for unvisited, purple for visited like Netscape Navigator GOLD! ?
<nephele>
the document color and link color are adjusted there to check it properly picks them up from the OS
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<nephele>
:)
<Skipp_OSX>
we have an OS link color?
<nephele>
yes
<Skipp_OSX>
but no OS highlight color :)
<nephele>
with hover, visited and active
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah, I recall that vaguely... bc of AboutSystem
<Skipp_OSX>
links, not just for browsers anymore
<nephele>
we have control highlight, navigation base and control mark
<HaikuUser>
Hi! Regarding r1~beta5_hrev58197_dirty ....Is a bomb there or something? What's so dirty regarding this hrev?
<nephele>
HaikuUser: that is likely just a bug in the CI, the _dirty means that something in the build was not checked into git
<Skipp_OSX>
it means you have made local changes on top of hrev58197
<nephele>
so potentially a build artifact produced by the build and not properly ignored in .gitignore or something
<HaikuUser>
I see. So I can test it.
<Skipp_OSX>
or maybe you need to pull tags or delete build-revision
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: it's not a local build in this case, for some reason the CI produced a revision marked as dirty
<Skipp_OSX>
hmmmmm
<HaikuUser>
I saw the changes regarding the set_area_protection and set_memory_protection into the vm.cpp and mmap_cut_test.cpp and it looks yummy so far.
<Skipp_OSX>
ok so same thing, but on the CI server, either tags need to be pulled or revision file deleted/recreated
<HaikuUser>
thanks
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<nephele>
I would really love for tracker to support alpha drawing for desktop images
<nephele>
we could use the transparent haiku logo then
<nephele>
hmm. I kinda wanna work on webkit, but at the same time much rather on webkit2
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<HaikuUser>
hi
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<dovsienko>
I spent some time tinkering with the Apple Mac mini 2007, and this time I had a working Haiku disk ready to boot in BIOS mode, so it went slightly better
<dovsienko>
specifically, Haiku start to boot and the 7 signs light up, but then the screen goes dark and stays this way
<dovsienko>
I thought of trying some boot options, and holding Shift indeed brings up the bootloader menu, but the keyboard does not work
<dovsienko>
given this little PC does not boot from USB, and how much time it takes to take it apart to swap the SATA disk, it seems better to avoid it
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