<OscarL>
only thing it does is... if you call "lpe somefile.txt:100:15", it opens somefile.txt, and moves the cursor to line 100, but also places the cursor on the 15 char/column
<OscarL>
same thing if invoked that way via /bin/open
<OscarL>
(as when you click on a "link" in Terminal, think gcc errors, and such)
vdamewood_ has joined #haiku
<Begasus[m]>
could be handy if you know the line and position it needs to open :)
vdamewood has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Begasus[m]>
that open "link" in Terminal is handy
<Begasus[m]>
use that quite often
<OscarL>
yeah... diver asked for support of file:line:col on "lpe", but then I saw that Terminal also tried to pass line and column (but with a different method), so I ended up adding both.
<OscarL>
reading some old but quite interesting changesets on Gerrit..., saw this: "In any case it would be great if things didn't stay stuck in review for this long, it frustrates everyone."
<OscarL>
:-)
<Begasus[m]>
OK, can test run it atleast I gues
<Begasus[m]>
grabbing latest commit/PR in the recipe ...
<OscarL>
just in case... the text I quoted wasn't directed at you Begasus[m]!
<Begasus>
gathered that :)
<OscarL>
just to the general "too few reviewers for so many projects" we seems to face in the Haikusphere :-)
<jmairboeck>
the important part compared to the common one is ARCHITECTURES (of course) and not removing the architecture-specific files
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb c5f322e - quicklaunch: update to v1.7
<jmairboeck>
and the additional PROVIDES for x86 to remove the secondaryArchSuffix
<Begasus>
ah kinda like the one for sdl-perl?
<jmairboeck>
yes, exactly
<Begasus>
gotcha! :)
<Begasus>
on par again :D
<jmairboeck>
but that is using Module::Build, so that is a mix of these two ;)
<jmairboeck>
but adding a 4th example would be a bit overkill, they aren't very different
<Begasus>
right, shouldn't be too hard to find what's missing
<Begasus>
can't cover "all" :)
hightower3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bbjimmy has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
mattlacey has joined #haiku
mattlacey has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
bbjimmy has joined #haiku
BrunoSpr has joined #haiku
BrunoSpr has quit []
BrunoSpr has joined #haiku
BrunoSpr has quit []
diver has joined #haiku
carlomonte has quit [Quit: leaving]
BrunoSpr has joined #haiku
<BrunoSpr>
Hi all
<BrunoSpr>
Strange, only Vision starts on booting after a minit the Desktop will start
<Begasus[m]>
added some autolaunch option?
Monni has joined #haiku
OrangeBomb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
OrangeBomb has joined #haiku
humdinger has joined #haiku
nephele has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<HaikuUser>
Hello
<humdinger>
hullo
HaikuUser has quit []
* humdinger
waves
<nephele>
hi humdinger
<humdinger>
hello
<Begasus>
'lo humdinger nephele
<humdinger>
woof woof
<nephele>
I've aproved some translations that use german quotes instead of english ones, and those now are marked as "critiical fault" but i can't figure out what the translation tool wants from mw
<Begasus>
something like that :)
<nephele>
hello Begasus
<nephele>
how are ya
<humdinger>
nephele: no idea... I always considered using fancy quotes more of a distraction. They also have to be used everywhere for consistency.
<humdinger>
I suppose you'll see with the next export if the errors are actually "critical"
<nephele>
Not sure if they are fancy as such, the double quotes at the top are not a thing in german, to my knowledge anyhow
<nephele>
but yes, i will make it consistent in that case
<humdinger>
At least using my german keyboard creates "normal" quotes. I think in every OS...
<nephele>
Yeah, but in writing (on paper) it's always a fault, and you can't have nested quotes like that ;) libreoffice corrects this automatically, i know iOS also does this manually
<humdinger>
Have fun with that!
<nephele>
for Haiku we can't do that automatically without keeping some kind of state in the textview about which quote was used last, and that is hard
<humdinger>
let me know if you need permissions at the user guide site
BrunoSpr has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Ich wurde eingeweicht!]
<nephele>
hmm, to adjust that too?
<humdinger>
if you want to open that can of worms.
<Begasus>
nephele, prepping for halloween :)
<humdinger>
I think the returns are minimal and not worth it.
<nephele>
I'm already now a bit "Ins kalte wasser geworfen" ;)
<Begasus>
well, and checking some meson generic recipe cleanup
<nephele>
hmmm meson
<nephele>
have been learning that a bit these pastv days
<Begasus>
you are spending way too much time with phschafft :P
<Begasus>
for me it's just the build process for haikuporter
<nephele>
meson was in efl, not with phschafft :)
<Begasus>
the "hmmm" was/is :)
<nephele>
ah
<nephele>
already got one suggestion yesterday to 'just' drop haiku and develop for efl on linux instead .-.
<Begasus>
eeps!
<Begasus>
nogo, we're short handed as it is already :)
<nephele>
well, the efl devs were kind and supportive :) I think that was just a user
<Begasus>
upstream radare2 was also last week, not changing camp :)
<nephele>
heh
<nephele>
i'm just casually porting efl and ocasionally checking on my covid strikken family member
<nephele>
don't want to catch that though...
<Begasus>
I may have gone to the dark side with KDE though (atleast a bit) :P
<Begasus>
hope they are doing well
<nephele>
I'm quite happy that you managed to get such a nice bridge to kde :)
<Begasus>
:D
<nephele>
i don't use much of their stuff on haiku but many users are quite happy that the sw is available
<Begasus>
yeah, as is with any of the other frameworks, but I guess most are familiar on those KDE apps
<Begasus>
well, clisp is around the corner, waiting for that PR :)
<jmairboeck>
very nice Begasus!
<jmairboeck>
in the meantime, I'm porting a lot of perl modules for biber
<Begasus>
hope that something at least got through on that forum topic on how and what about recipes
<Begasus>
wasn't there something you needed lisp for jmairboeck?
<nephele>
humdinger: regarding quicklaunch, i am curious if the app gets launched each time you use a shortcut. or if this only happens the first time it is launched, and then just Hide() Show()'s the window
<humdinger>
it get's launched&quit every time
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: yeah, it's a dependency of xindy (part of texlive we don't have yet)
<nephele>
on the forum it looks like you wanted to improve launch time even more, maybe having this as a service running that only shows the window when requested could make this faster even
<nephele>
iirc TeamMonitor in input_server kind of works like that
<humdinger>
yeah, but it's really fast enough. was faster before, I guess, becuse queries were cheap. but it's still fast enough to be instantaneous.
<humdinger>
Also,I don't want to deal with keeping the app list uptodate...
<nephele>
would likely be a live querry then instead? But yeah, it would be more complex
<nephele>
I'm thinking to install it in a bit to see how it works for me :)
<humdinger>
good :)
<phschafft>
hm....
<nephele>
is it fast enough for a 240hz display though? I guess we will find out if Haiku ever supports such displays :D
<Begasus>
doggies ...
<humdinger>
the app list is still built in maybe 0.02 seconds here, last time I timed it. Fast enough, I hope.
<nephele>
(according to screen prefs i can go up to 140hz but i have no way to verify if this is acurate, apart from checking the input latency and guessing)
<Begasus>
re
<nephele>
20ms? hmm, for 240hz in theory the worst time (to be in the next frame) would be 4,6ms with 60hz that's 16,6ms so that would "usually" be in the next frame i guess
<nephele>
but next frame response for such stuff is a very high target :)
<nephele>
especially when apps on windows on the same hw start for me in the seconds range...
<humdinger>
well, it's not a game. I just don't want to see a noticable delay after hitting the QL shortcut.
<nephele>
Sure, I agree here. input latency is just my pet pieve :)
<nephele>
i have some bigger fish to fry there first, like adding an option that usb mouse actually poll a bit faster...
<Begasus>
eeps, I think those tests for xapian could take a looong time on 32bit :P
<nephele>
hmm, ctrl + shift as shortcut doesn't work
<nephele>
bound it to win-tab
<nephele>
humdinger: so far works good. Thanks for making this! Now got to train myself to use it
<humdinger>
good. :) It's become my normal way to start apps. It's bad when I'm at work with Windows... :)
<nephele>
win-r
<humdinger>
I may try that in the future. I suppose it doesn't have "Favorites'.
<humdinger>
Which I also got used to...
<nephele>
it has "enter the proper name of this executable" and nothing more :/
<nephele>
and if it's not in the path you better also specify where it is
<Begasus>
good thing Windows powershell has tab-completion for that :)
<nephele>
humdinger: maybe boot/servers should be excluded by default
<humdinger>
maybe. but maybe someone would like it to re-start a server or daemon. I donÄt want to assume too much, and better have the user put it in the ignore list.
<nephele>
servers are re-started automatically. We should have a proper gui tool to manage service state
<nephele>
probably adding this to team monitor would be sufficient
<humdinger>
Check out HaikuUtils for that.
<nephele>
I know what tool you are reffering to but that seems way too overkill to me
<nephele>
as a user i only want enable/disable a service and have some sanity checks of "Do you *really* want to disable the application server?"
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 9d7c753 - libzim, bump version (#11261)
<Begasus>
wb OscarL :)
<OscarL>
Thanks Begasus :-D
chilledfrogs has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
seeing that libzim, makes me think. Mmm, would be nice to use Kiwix extension on Web+.
<Begasus>
well, kiwix is already there :)
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
I ran zim-tools for years (before I had stable internet). Nice to have. But the Kiwix extension is still useful for "once in a blue moon" cases, or for when you just have one or two .zim files you check more regularly.
<scantysnax>
good afternoon.
<OscarL>
Hello there scantysnax :-)
<scantysnax>
hi OscarL!
<scantysnax>
what's new and exciting?
* humdinger
waves
humdinger has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Oi with the poodles already!!]
<OscarL>
food is amost ready... (most exciting thing going on at the moment!) :-)
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<scantysnax>
i see. what are you eating?
<OscarL>
raviolis (filling of cheese and veggies)
<scantysnax>
mmm, sounds good.
<Begasus[m]>
enjoy :)
<Begasus[m]>
Hi scantysnax
<OscarL>
sprinkled with some chopped ciboulette (chives?) and white pepper.
<scantysnax>
ah
<scantysnax>
hi Begasus[m]
<scantysnax>
how are you?
<Begasus[m]>
fine so far, can't complain :)
<Begasus[m]>
you?
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I will, thanks, fortunately, this time the flu hasn't affected my sense of taste :-D
<scantysnax>
pretty good more or less.... having some minor issues
<Begasus>
:)
<Begasus>
scantysnax, we all do :)
<scantysnax>
indeed.
<scantysnax>
not complaining.
<Begasus>
we don't want to spoil OscarL's dinner :)
<scantysnax>
well, he has to eat lunch first.
<Begasus>
with OscarL you never know in what timezone he is :P
<Begasus>
could be breakfast :)
<scantysnax>
lols
<Begasus>
~> pkg-config libcurl --cflags
<Begasus>
Package libssh2 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
<Begasus>
OK, who bumped curl the last time .. :P
<Begasus>
bbl
dby has joined #haiku
<scantysnax>
oooh, i just saved a register.... cycles are cycles :-)
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<OscarL>
+1
<scantysnax>
bbl.
<scantysnax>
enjoy your meal
<Begasus>
bugger, seems to be missing devel:libpsl also
dby has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Begasus>
k, libkiwix fine now
<Begasus>
almost :P ../test/./httplib.h:1577:20: error: 'NI_MAXHOST' was not declared in this scope
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Begasus>
fixed :) grabbing libkiwix-13.1.0-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Share/haikuports/packages/libkiwix-13.1.0-1-x86_64.hpkg
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli 9157617 - ncurses6: clean up
<OscarL>
so... ww have "beautifulsoup" 4.9 to 4.12, but also "beautifulsoup4" at version 4.12...
<OscarL>
totally not confusing at all! :-P
<OscarL>
s/ww/we/
<OscarL>
opened the latter (because it is the only one in actuall use in-tree) and was like... wait... I *swear* I saw a buch of recipes in here yesterday! where did they go?
<Begasus>
heh
<OscarL>
also, seems 4.9 and 4.12 in the old location are just local leftovers. Anyway... let's see if we can remove the old ones...
<Begasus>
+1
<OscarL>
only html5_parser uses "beautifulsoup" without the 4 at the end... and html5_parser is only used by calibre... that uses beautifulsoup4 :-D
<OscarL>
don't want to start a chain reaction of things to test so... will keep html5_parser on the same version, but will try using beautifulsoup4 for TEST_REQUIRES there (and also, drop 3.9 for html5_parser).
Anarchos has joined #haiku
<Begasus[m]>
I'm going to grab a bite here also
<Anarchos>
hello
<OscarL>
enjoy!
<OscarL>
Hello Anarchos
<Anarchos>
hello OscarL
<Begasus[m]>
bbl
Anarchos has quit [Quit: reboot, netboot...]
<OscarL>
lol, had haiku_devel uninstalled (due to a previous test of a custom haiku.hpkg)... now haikuporter fetched it for me...
<OscarL>
chroot now has haiku-r1~beta5_hrev58283-1-x86_64.hpkg *and* haiku-r1~beta5_hrev58287-1-x86_64.hpkg as active package? :-D
Maylay_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
guess hp hid pkgman's "needs a reboot, you dawg!" warning :-P
Anarchos has joined #haiku
Maylay has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
(still think is pretty bad that hp just goes and installs stuff system wide instead of just downloading the needed packages and making them available to the chroot)
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Begasus[m]>
K, korli fixed, checking for tomorrow morning :)
<Begasus[m]>
closing down here, cu peeps!
<OscarL>
"hp -c html5_parser" (a pretty small package) took 1m45s (first invocatio of hp after a reboot) :-(
<OscarL>
later Begasus[m]!
hightower3 has joined #haiku
deneel has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: hit "waiting for build package html5_parser-0.4.10-3 to be deactivated" on hrev58287 64 bits :-(
<OscarL>
after some of your changes on nightlies, I had only seen it a couple of times on 32 bits.
<OscarL>
at least it didn't repeated this time on a retry after "hp -c"
<nephele>
Anarchos: where is the netboot stuck on?
erysdren has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
aaand, of course that now I get "waiting for build package html5_parser-0.4.10-3 to be activated" :-/
<nephele>
"patience, use the force. Think."
* OscarL
after smashing some old broken keyboard he has for such purposes: "solid advice, nephele".
<nephele>
OscarL: well obi-wan doesn't even follow his own advice. Jump out of a window to attack a drone
<nephele>
phschafft: available?
<OscarL>
not an star wars fan, but can relate with the jumping throw windows bit :-)
<nephele>
OscarL: on the one hand that should really be fixed, but on the other hand the mechanism *how* this works should be changed entirely too
<nephele>
no reason why this sub-haiku thing should need anything from the host OS apart from some packages mounted. So it should be independant
<OscarL>
even from a user's perspective: agree.
<OscarL>
guess it was more build with buildmasters in mind than dumbs like me updating recipes with it :-)
<nephele>
aslong as buildmaster still "works" i'm happy
<nephele>
I would really like this to be a bit less annoying for the haikuports folks :)
* OscarL
runs a profiler on "hp -c html5_parser" (right after a reboot, so no fs caches in play).
<OscarL>
"Repository._initAllPorts()" is the hot one, with the stat() builtin being where all the time gets spent.
<nephele>
I'm rebuilding haiku over and over to fix all the filesystem interfaces i break with my patch
<OscarL>
(I should continue my attempts at using picled dictionaries instead of plain files there, to see if that improves cold-start up times. switch to sqlite maybe?)
<Anarchos>
nephele i have many 'usb_manager' not found errors, and the last one before kdl seems to be 'nno /dev/net
<nephele>
hmm, sounds like the kernel has started atleast?
<Anarchos>
nephele no : no log into my remote_disk_server log, so i think i am stuck in the haiku-netboot.tgz stage
<nephele>
where do you see the messages about usb_manager?
<Anarchos>
nephele i hit spacebar on the boot loader menu
<nephele>
have you opened a new bug?
<Anarchos>
from what i understand, there is a tiny system in haiku-netboot-tgz file (with its own kernel) whose sole purpose is to retrieve the real system from the remote disk server.
<Anarchos>
i think the haiku-netboot system is unable to install the drivers for the network card .
<Anarchos>
nephele i didn't file a bug yet.
* OscarL
pats himself in the back for having a working script to do quick .hpkg diffs
<nephele>
hmmm, a graphical diff for that would be cool too
<Anarchos>
OscarL i cant' stand a language where tab is meaningful (Make and python are all the only ones i have on this ugly list). Anyway thanks for providing great tools !
mmu_man is now known as Guest7534
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
I used to hate that about Python too... made me disregard it as a viable language back in 1998. I regret that decision.
Guest7534 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
went back to it in 2007 because it was the only language that fit the build for the work I needed to to (replace an unholy ammount of megabytes of VBScript).
<OscarL>
now... "indentation as scope" is by far my prefered style over "begin/end" block markers.
<OscarL>
s/build/bill/ (man, that isn't even a typo, lol :-D)
<Anarchos>
hello mmu_man
<Anarchos>
OscarL «sed -i» is nice to replace megabytes in files :)
<nephele>
Anarchos: it's meaningfull in C++. If you ignore it the code style guidelines bite you xD
<phschafft>
nephele: no. which topic?
<nephele>
phschafft: oki. Just in general (regarding jail vs namespace)
<nephele>
No specific question
<phschafft>
nephele: maybe tomorrow. Today I needed to use my eletric plane. too much noise for tomorrow.
<OscarL>
not sure if phschafft is into woodworking, or RC model piloting :-P
tuaris has joined #haiku
<phschafft>
yes ;)
<OscarL>
nice :-)
<phschafft>
na, today just woodworking.
<phschafft>
but I build some small model planes before. but that is not really a big part.
jmairboeck has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<nephele>
implementing fdatasync was a bit more work than i'd thought
<phschafft>
this project is about installing a false ceiling in my bedroom.
<nephele>
needed to adjust the filesystem interface
<nephele>
now wondering if there should be 8 or 10 spare slots there too...
<phschafft>
hm?
<nephele>
phschafft: If i change the interface regarldess I might make room for say 10 more pointers/calls. so in the future atleast if that size of table matches older drivers can be loaded "easily"
<phschafft>
yes.
<phschafft>
so you want to add new slots; it's not that you're unsure if you calculated your padding correctly?
<nephele>
No, just wondering if that might be a good idea to do in one go
<nephele>
Haven't added that to my patchset yet but will mention it on the review tool and other devs can chime in
<phschafft>
anyway, lasagna!
<nephele>
Guten
<phschafft>
nephele: one could also add a parameter that provides the size and/or version of the structure.
<phschafft>
can provide more infos later/tomorrow. but now I really need to leave.
<Anarchos>
nephele code style guidelines won't prevent you to generate code without tabs...
Anarchos has quit [Quit: try netboot again]
vdamewood_ has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
vdamewood has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
I do not enjoy testing calibre... less so when it crashes, and the save port option causes Debugger to crash as well.
<OscarL>
started just fine from Terminal.... albet it immediatly offers to "update".
<OscarL>
this should be disabled (even by force if needed be) on our packages, right?
<nephele>
I agree
<nephele>
update checking (and associated network connections) are inapropriate for software managed by a repository
mattlacey has joined #haiku
Anarchos has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
opening an issue over Haikuports about it.
<Anarchos>
nephele i removed objects/ and rebuild with 'jam -j5 -q haiku-netboot-archive'. Still no luck.
<Anarchos>
nephele but before i did a 'git rebase master', it could contact the remote_disk_server. Unfortunately, my branch was 2 years older as the master branch i rebase onto.
<nephele>
jam should rebuild what is needed automatically. Probably something just got broken? (duo to lack of testing...)
<Anarchos>
nephele sure someone broke the build (TM)
<Monni>
A lot of network drivers are broken in nightly... I've seen some attempts at fixing them... Sometimes I get things working by downgrading bootloader, which is kind of weird...
<nephele>
upload a new bug report with the log i guess :g
<Anarchos>
Monni it is a rtl81xx, seems fairly standard and well supported
<Anarchos>
Monni are there tickets about that ?
<OscarL>
trying to use calibre to just open and read an .epub.... makes me want to go back to reading .ebooks on a 3.5" android 4 "smartphone".
<nephele>
:(
<nephele>
OscarL: does DocumentViewer not support .epub?
<Anarchos>
nephele bootloader logs are a pain : i have to take a photo...
<nephele>
or WebPosivite?
<Monni>
Anarchos: I've seen some tickets regarding broken networking, but those are already quite old...
<OscarL>
nephele: no idea... in reality, I'm just trying to make sure that my changes in html5_parser didn't affected calibre.
<Monni>
I'm building fresh nightlies and testing them once every few days...
<nephele>
If you have new bugs then please open tickets#
<OscarL>
I have friends that love calibre, for my use case... I only need a as-lightweight-as-possible reader.
<nephele>
i don't see any tickets about "a lot" of drivers beeing broken
<nephele>
certainly none of the network drivers my devices need are
<nephele>
OscarL: since ePub is "html in a zip" supporting it in webpositive as a "fallback" thing should likely be doable. Or with a webkit native viewer with wk2 later
<Monni>
nephele: I saw one that affected network drivers borrowed from FreeBSD... Caused KDL in earlier revisions...
<nephele>
maybe stuff that into DocumentViewer
nephele_xmpp has left #haiku [Error from remote client]
<nephele>
haiku format bot added 168 comments on my change that changes 59 lines...
<Monni>
haiku format bot is quite a nuisance... not sure how helpful it is in current state...
<OscarL>
nephele: right. also why I was earlier thinking that being able to use the kiwix JS extention on Web+ would be nice.
<nephele>
Monni: definetely isn't a nuisance. It's great, just not perfect. And the way such tools work it can't be perfect
<nephele>
OscarL: what is a kiwix js?
nephele_xmpp has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
kiwix provides tools for offline access things like wikipedia....
<Monni>
nephele: it needs to be gradually improved... if people just let it give wrong advices, it becomes as much of a nuisance as haikuporter when not doing it's job effectvely...
<OscarL>
they have commandline servers, but also a browser extension that it is able to open their file formats.
<nephele>
Monni: It *CANT* give perfect advice. Because the coding guidelines are not defined for everything. And we stupid humans treat declarations differently in different contextes.
<nephele>
Sure, it can be improved in cases. But jeez, just treat it as what it is: a tool that removes a huge work of manual review
<Monni>
nephele: IMHO in some cases it should refrain from commenting if the guidelines are not adequately defined, or it is unsure which guideline to apply...
<nephele>
that's just not possible with the way such tools work
<OscarL>
welp, calibre only crashed once, and renders .epub just fine. I'm assuming that crash was a fluke and possibly related to that "phone-home" thing it pulled.
<nephele>
it doesn't take examples from the code guideline and goes "yeah you are violating this"
<nephele>
OscarL: hmm, well my personal stance for browser addons is to implement all the "must-have" addons directly, and maybe later implement webextensions or something
<OscarL>
sounds ok to me.
<nephele>
but for this addon i dunno. It crosses paths with a more "proper" application i.e "desktop" apps. (or pwa) kinda. The whole offline thing :)
<nephele>
on iOS for example I just have the actual wikipedia application installed and use that always
<Monni>
nephele: I've seen pretty good tools for Python that make almost no mistakes with formatting... But Python is also quite strict about whitespace....
<nephele>
I don't doubt that. But you are comparing a tool for a language that has significant whitespace and is used in "single" projects with a tool that is made for severall languages and is for an entire operating system
<nephele>
we simply have much more attack surface for mistakes. I don't think this tool was tested on these fs boundaries before, and if our formatting we chose was consistent it would not need to check. But instead we have somewhat different formatting there
<OscarL>
good luck codifying the "I know it is wrong when I see it" rules :-D
<nephele>
exactly
<nephele>
OscarL: run an AI over it instead, it can complain at random :D
<OscarL>
I don't need AI for that, when I do that all day! :-P
<Monni>
AI is just one of the stupid things modern society thinks is solution for everything... it's pretty much guessing what people say and googling random bits of information and then gluing those together...
<OscarL>
mmm calibre is missing even more dependencies...
<OscarL>
"ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'netifaces'"
<Anarchos>
can someone remember me how to build haiku 32bits on a x86_64 install ?
<Monni>
One well known joke about AI is that it can't count how many R there is in strawberry ;)
<Anarchos>
Monni there is no R and 3 r :)
<Monni>
Another thing is that it can't sort decimal numbers like 9.11 and 9.9 which have different lengths...
<nephele>
Anarchos: just tell ./configure what you want to build for
<Anarchos>
nephele but i guss teh 'configure' is only if you run it from a 32bits install ? I think i have to do '../configure --cross-tools-source ../../buildtools --build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 --build-cross-tools x86'
<Monni>
AI basically tokenize the input and assign ordinal to every token... it doesn't actually care what each token contains...
<nephele>
follow the instructions for "Working in a clean build directory" i think Anarchos
<Anarchos>
nephele bummer, i looked for already existing ticket and i find this one : https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/17729, which is my very stack trace for 2 days ...
<Anarchos>
nephele let's try with 32 bits then
<nephele>
sounds like it cannot mount the network filesystem
<Anarchos>
nephele yes something prevents the "/dev/net" to be mounted on 64bits
<Anarchos>
nephele and there are some "x86 @{... @}" guards in build/jam/images/NetBootArchive , maybe related
<Anarchos>
nephele building a 32 bits version on my x86_64 will not be so easy : The command 'gcc -m32 -o conftest -O2 -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE -fcommon conftest.c' failed. *** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
<nephele>
-m32 means to make a 32bit image... but the gcc compiler we have can't do this. But that is normally what the buildtools should do. build a gcc compiler that *can* do this
<nephele>
and the 64bit build actually does this because it needs it for the mbr loader which is 32bit code
<nephele>
So i'm quite confused about that
<nephele>
maybe it is not tested too :(
<Anarchos>
nephele i am happy to be alone to be confused :)
<OscarL>
nephele: do you know why buildtools is not offered as a .hpkg instead of having people to have to clon/compile it themselves? (I'm just thinking of the "build 32bits Haiku from Haiku", or "build the anyboot image on 64 bits Haiku" cases)
<OscarL>
s/cases/use cases/
<Anarchos>
nephele as usual PulkoMandy found the trikc :« Make sure you don’t have “.” in your PATH, it is known to create some problems with building GCC.»
<Anarchos>
nephele guess what, i have . in PATH :)
<nephele>
Yes, by default
<nephele>
OscarL: I do not know. But the more interesting question is why the gcc we ship *can't* build 32bit applications, that we even require this. I guess the explanantion is that a) it's not part of haikuports and b) nobody did that yet
_-Caleb-_ has left #haiku [#haiku]
<nephele>
the config script for haiku does want the buildtools to be in a specific place though. But we could probably make that a /package/ path?
mmu_man is now known as Guest7537
mmu_man has joined #haiku
Guest7537 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
not requiring buildtools at all (or being able to just install it) would simplify initial setup a lot for potential new contributors.
<Anarchos>
OscarL yes, and i notice that building the buildtools is really looong time
<nephele>
You don't need them on 64 bit haiku if you do some trickery which i know how to do ;)
<OscarL>
I do know the comment line 21 secret handshake too.
<OscarL>
:-)
<nephele>
The thing is that line is because haiku.hpkg contains the haiku bootloader too. the bios one
<OscarL>
Anarchos: right, and the "get the source" guild doesn't even suggests --depth=1, so poor first timers waste a lot of time waiting on cloning stuff they'll never need,
<nephele>
Perhaps we should have a target for efi-boot only or something
<OscarL>
or detect presense or not of buildtools, disable that 32 bits boot loader?
<Anarchos>
OscarL i never did --depth=1 myself. now i understand why it was so long
<OscarL>
(even if that implies no anyboot.iso... beats not being able to just "jam" other targets)
<nephele>
OscarL: that would be unpredictable, not sure that is a good idea
<OscarL>
could put a fat warning before proceeding.
<OscarL>
still beats (attemps to) cloning/building buildtools, get frustrated, then find out there was a workaroud.
<Anarchos>
OscarL it is a pity that we cannot so easily modify/update guides on the website
<OscarL>
I would suggest putting the workaround on the guide, but it is already hard to follow as is.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: you can open PR just fine for haiku/website
<OscarL>
I haven't (other than for very small fixes), because I can't come up with something better.
<OscarL>
I lack the required technical knowledge to understand subtleties... and people that already know this stuff, has no problem with the guide as is.
<nephele>
open a ticket on trac instead then
<nephele>
we can discuss there how we can resolve this, either by updating the documentation (for example to include your --depth option) or making this whole process smoother
<OscarL>
(or just can't find a way to re-write it in a "fresh-minds" friendlier approach)
<OscarL>
nephele: sounds good.
<Anarchos>
even this one ends with "gcc -m32 ... failed" ==> PATH=/boot/home/config/non-packaged/bin:/boot/home/config/bin:/boot/system/non-packaged/bin:/bin:/boot/system/apps:/boot/system/preferences ../configure --cross-tools-source ../../buildtools --build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 --build-cross-tools x86
<OscarL>
nephele: not much, but at least I started taking notes for that future ticket :-) (better organize my thoughts a bit first :-D)
mattlacey has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Anarchos>
nephele i will try to build for x86, and forget the x86_gcc2 …
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<nephele>
Anarchos: x86 (not x86_gcc2) is unmaintained as primary architecture
<nephele>
I think that would give you even more pain
<OscarL>
Anarchos: that add-ons/kernel/cpu/x86 doesn't means 32 bits only
* nephele
tries to figure out what one has to put into fstab on linux for "mount disk to this folder" without systemd putting the OS in rescue mode again on next boot without telling me what is wrong)
* |cos|
believes nephele is on an impossible quest.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: on my 64 bits VM... listimage 1 shows: /boot/system/add-ons/kernel/cpu/generic_x86
<nephele>
as a user i want: not having to click on dolphin to open this disk. But what i don't want: read documentation about obscure config files, learn how to tell the OS to re-read those files (because it doesn't. But it does tell me it *knows* it changed, it just doesn't read it) and i also don't want to figure out what uuid a disk partition has
<nephele>
anyone know where i can get a 32bit efi bootloader for haiku to boot a 64bit system?
<nephele>
maybe i should just try booting a 32bit system for starters
<OscarL>
yesterday I used systemd to change the hostname... had to revert the change because all apps failed to start after that :-/
<OscarL>
*just linux things*
<nephele>
"schredder"
<Anarchos>
OscarL cause i see it exclude from the build in NetBootArchive (or more precisely, guarded by "#if x86"
<OscarL>
Anarchos: x86 is a loaded term
<Anarchos>
nephele schredder is the user not the hostname :)
<nephele>
Anarchos: no. the user is "user"
<OscarL>
"OscarL@A760G-Haiku" here :-P
<nephele>
linux and haiku have whoami, but FreeBSD has "who am i"
<Anarchos>
OscarL FloppyBootImage has "x86" and "x86_64" guards. Could explain the Netboot error if the kernel doesn' have cpu/generic_x86 !!
<|cos|>
nephele: i think i did some kind of cron madness to mount filesystems back when i ran systemd on something. @boot or whatever it was.
<nephele>
|cos|: in theory cron should not be needed when one has something *like* systemd running
<nephele>
but in practice i have no fucking clue
<nephele>
i just know cron will kill stuff that runs too long if you pick the wrong cron implementation
<OscarL>
Anarchos: I guess some of those files can have become outdated. Can't really comment, because I hardly understand anything related to jam :-)
<nephele>
Anarchos: for 32bit it's probably because the arch is x86_gcc2
<Anarchos>
OscarL i will just change the guard and see what happens
<nephele>
but i don't know how it compiles that.
<Anarchos>
nephele my arch is x86_64
<HaikuUser>
right, this new beta boots in one machine I have, typing from it right now, but not in other. In the other, I guet a boot error, invalid partition hash or something. But looks really cool.
<nephele>
from the same installation medium? or is that an installed system that fails to boot?
<HaikuUser>
the same medium.
<HaikuUser>
installation media, that is.
<HaikuUser>
usb key.
<nephele>
In that case filing a bug report would be nice :)
<HaikuUser>
I have no idea how things works here, very green, linux user =D
<nephele>
I assume you are getting a white screen on boot with the faults printed?
<HaikuUser>
yes, it falls into the 'kernel debugger'.
<nephele>
If that is the case we "only" need that photographed for the bugtracker. And if you report a bug potentially you beeing able to test a fix
<nephele>
say, if we fix that issue in the nightlies booting that to confirm it is fixed, so it will work for the next beta release
<HaikuUser>
cool, I'll try taking a picture later.
<nephele>
maybe something more would be required like some system info (also ones dumped from linux), but that would be asked on the bugtracker then :)
<HaikuUser>
I tried messing in the bios, usb modes, etc, but it is beyond me.
<Anarchos>
HaikuUser if you do it within the hour, i will look your kernel debugger photo.
<nephele>
that's fine. If there is a specific option we think may help it will be provided on the bugtracker
<nephele>
but generally no need to mess with the bios (unless you really screwed something up there), we have debug options in our bootloader menu that are usually sufficient
<HaikuUser>
then I'll need to log out, to get the usb key on the other machine, and get the picture.
<nephele>
alright. when you come back you can use /nick so we have a name to identify you with :)
<HaikuUser>
right.
HaikuUser has left #haiku [#haiku]
vdamewood has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<nephele>
is there any way to git restore files to HEAD~1
<nephele>
aha! --source HEAD~1
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
Anarchos: for what i is worth... on the jam/packages/Haiku file there are entries like this: "<pci>x86@x86,x86_64", so it might well be that you're not getting net drivers addded in on that jam/images/NetBootArchive ?
<OscarL>
s/i is/it is/
tqh has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<OscarL>
Anarchos: it even has "if $(TARGET_ARCH) = x86 || $(TARGET_ARCH) = x86_64 {" for adding that generic_x86 module :-)
HaikuUser is now known as neoncortex
<Anarchos>
OscarL the trouble is more for 'dpc' and 'generic' i guess but i think you are right
<neoncortex>
hey, me again, the boot panic. My cellphone is crap, but, https://ibb.co/HDDfYTh
<Anarchos>
OscarL i wonder if 'dpc' is blocking modules/addons to be loaded. (i guess dpc means 'deferred procedure call', which seems meaningful for modules to use it )
<OscarL>
No idea Anarchos, but I know what *I* would hastly try... s/x86/x86-64/ on that NetBootArchive :-P
<Anarchos>
OscarL sure that's my plan
<OscarL>
neoncortex: I got a similar panic yesterday (or the day before... brain-fog).
<Anarchos>
OscarL first, get netboot 32bits working (bump tarfs size). Second, get netboot 64 bits work in messing with nasty "#if x86"
<neoncortex>
I see.
<OscarL>
neoncortex: but my issue was on 32 bits with PAE enabled (and it was already fixed), so I can't really add anything really meaningfull, sorry :-(
<Anarchos>
neoncortex it seems your disk is corrupted ?
<neoncortex>
no, because I can boot it fine in other computer.
<OscarL>
guess it doesn't likes that particular AHCI controller.
<OscarL>
mmm, just noticed it chokes on an ntfs partition... where I read about similar issues lately?
<neoncortex>
thing is: I don't have any ntfs partition. There is a Debian installation on that machine.
<Anarchos>
neoncortex see, if you installed windows, it would boot perfectly to window$ :)
<neoncortex>
well, can't argue about this xD
<nephele>
neoncortex: the signature thing from ntfs you can ignore. it's just the ntfs driver saying "this is no ntfs partition!"
<nephele>
which isn't really relevant, seeing as we aren't using ntfs ;)
<OscarL>
neoncortex: bah... nevermind... the wording of those "ntfs error" always trip me.
<neoncortex>
I see.
<neoncortex>
at least it boots in this machine I'm on right now. I'll probably installl here. My first install =D
<OscarL>
specially when they start with "error:" and end in a scary exclamation mark... for simple things as "this doesn't looks like a valid ntfs partition, bye!"
<nephele>
yes, this is scary debug output :/
<nephele>
neoncortex: if you want you can try if a nightly boots
<nephele>
But other than that, i can only suggest to open a bug report with that picture
<OscarL>
"invalid superblock!" <<< dear jebus... is that fatal?
<nephele>
yes, same thing, whatever those drivers were asked to look at was not a superblock for ufs either ;)
<nephele>
the wording could really be a bit better
<neoncortex>
next shopping time I'll go with an usb key and bother the people to death trying it.
<nephele>
runtime_loader: /boot/home/proj/haiku/generated/objects/haiku_host/lib/libbe_build.so: Could not resolve symbol '_kernbuild_fsync'
<nephele>
dark, where do i need to define or redefine that now
<Anarchos>
nephele did you do 'pkgman update' ?
<nephele>
lol no, this is my own doing Anarchos
<nephele>
i'm changing a system call
<Anarchos>
nephele dark wizardry i didn't do yet :)
<nephele>
the system call interface in haiku isn't "stable" so you can change it without too much trouble
<nephele>
(that is, the numbering and such depends on the build, and applications instead link against the libc for this)
<Anarchos>
nephele i know. but i don't feel skilled enough to touch it
<nephele>
That's fine, but don't worry about it too much. If you touch it and break something other devs will tell you why it broke, it's not that terrible :)
<nephele>
i think haiku is very forgiving in that sense
<Monni>
If something doesn't KDL on first try, there is something seriously wrong in it ;)
<Monni>
Bootloader Death Land is also nice play to end up...
<OscarL>
neoncortex: crapshoot... tried using different USB ports? in particular, USB2 vs USB3 *might* change the outcome.
rexbinary has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rexbinary_ has joined #haiku
rexbinary_ is now known as rexbinary
<neoncortex>
I tried two ports, but there is three xD
<OscarL>
weird that it tries partition on the HDD/SSD instead of looking on the usb drive itself, no?
<Anarchos>
what can be wrong ?
<neoncortex>
I have no idea why it does this.
<Anarchos>
Monni i already encounter the bootloader death land. very scary place !
<nephele>
OscarL: no. the bootloader by default checks all devices
<nephele>
the bootloader from the usb can boot a installed system and vice versa
<neoncortex>
maybe if we can specify to look only in the usb key, it would boot?
<OscarL>
nephele: welp... it is not finding the partition son the usb drive in his case,.
<nephele>
can't know without the full system log
<nephele>
neoncortex: whatever you are encountering is a bug and we should fix it ;)
<neoncortex>
fair.
<nephele>
if you want you can unplug your hardrive, but i'm not sure that will do you any good
<nephele>
I think it simply tried to scan that last, your image only had a partial system log after all
<OscarL>
"did not find any boot partitions!", doens't gets any clearer than that :-P
<nephele>
error: 'boot' has not been declared
<nephele>
i need to learn how to spell
<nephele>
boollllll
<nephele>
huh, why does vision use a different font for the text view and input bar.
<neoncortex>
by the way, nice irc client.
<nephele>
OscarL: yeah, but that doesn't mean it didn't look
<neoncortex>
loving it so far.
<OscarL>
heads up nephele! will choke on those xtra "l"s :-P
<nephele>
:)
<nephele>
neoncortex: glad you aprove!
* nephele
weighs this against the user yesterday telling me to just drop haiku and develop on linux
<neoncortex>
DONT
<neoncortex>
now I need to learn stuff here. I'm getting tired of linux drama, and stuff that changes all the time.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: somehow it is trying to use gcc 5.4? that sounds around the times where x86 was a thing, no?
<nephele>
hmm, i'm not much aware of linux drama. Only my new gpu sometimes resets on linux, and that is annoying... I guess i might need to report that to the linux kernel if i want to play intensive games on it
<nephele>
I can understand the changes stuff all the time though, it is not that nice :/
<OscarL>
Anarchos: "gcc-5.4.0_2016_06_04-4" is mentioned on jam/repositories/HaikuPorts/x86.
<neoncortex>
my next question would be about security: it is a single user system, correct? Does applications have any isolation? Like if the web browser loads a malicious javascript, or image, or a pdf file, etc? Does everything gets 'admin' access by default?
<Anarchos>
OscarL i compiled for x86... not sure which gcc is used
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<nephele>
neoncortex: unfortunatelly yes. effectively everything runs with "root" rights
<neoncortex>
I see.
<Anarchos>
neoncortex the only user "user" is admin, though we have Posix permissions on files/dirs
<HaikuUser>
58288 seems to connect to internet... now let's see if it will stay connected or will it KDL...
<OscarL>
Anarchos: AFAIK, only x86_64 and x86_gcc2 are valid targets archs at the moment. that "x86" does gets confusing.
<nephele>
Yes, somewhat. However there is no gurantee that such a user can't simply say connect to one of the system servers to bypass such protections
HaikuUser is now known as MonniTheKitten
<nephele>
not ideal. But rather not give a false sense of security ;)
<neoncortex>
raw and dirty xD
<Anarchos>
OscarL yes but as i said, i can't build the buildtools for x86_gcc2
<neoncortex>
I'll disconnect, explore more. Coming back later.
neoncortex has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<OscarL>
ok, just saying why I think that "x86" won't work. That jam/repositories/HaikuPorts/x86 file is just unusable.
<OscarL>
(should probably removed, but what do I know)
<Anarchos>
OscarL i will try to build my x86_gcc2 :)
<OscarL>
The 32 bits haiku boot loader (bios) can boot both 32 and 64 bits kernels. No clue if the same applies to haiku_loader.pxe_ia32 :-(
<nephele>
OscarL: now i'm the one with the rebuild problem, turns out changing system callls changes stuff in in libc and now it recompiles almost everything xD
<nephele>
or atleast relinks it
<OscarL>
ouch :-(
<nephele>
gotta say though, beeing able to somewhat compfortably develop on an i3 is great
<OscarL>
should try building Haiku on an Atom N450... everything else feels fast then :-)
<nephele>
should i send you an i3? ;)
<OscarL>
(also, not all i3 are created equal, no? quite a wide range between stuff like some glorified slow mobile core2-duos, and others like the 12100k are pretty darn great)
<Monni>
I wonder what CPU my BeOS machine has... might be slow enough to have fun compiling Haiku...
<nephele>
i3-3220 is this one
<OscarL>
nephele: would be nice... if I wasn't 95% sure it will land on the hands of some corrupt customs officer :-)
<nephele>
do they want mini-pcs?
<nephele>
where do you live then?
<OscarL>
Argentina.
<OscarL>
but far, far away from the main entry point, where the stealing occurs.
<Monni>
My company has server farm in Chubut ;)
<OscarL>
unless you live in Bs.As., and can personally go to bother them (or bribe them), most of electronic stuff gets "lost in transit".
<nephele>
hmm, costs 45€ to send that to you with insurance
<nephele>
OscarL: is that a problem with insured packages too?
<OscarL>
(and then resold on our local version of ebay/amanzon :-D, we suck hahaha)
<OscarL>
nephele: no clue, really. Only things I managed to get from abroad was one CD from US, and one from Germany.
<Anarchos>
OscarL if only my x86_64 could be able to configure with "--build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 " :-((
<OscarL>
(in like... 2004/2006 :-D)
<Anarchos>
time to sleep
Anarchos has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<nephele>
OscarL: If you can figure out if insurance of packages works as a deterant (would probably ship with DHL) I'd be willing to ship you my dev machine (and pay the cost of shipping)
<OscarL>
Really appreciate it, nephele. Thank you. But I rather not risk other people's money/hardware.
<nephele>
the money would not hurt me much, and the hw is i got for free ;)
<OscarL>
surely you can find a local person/institute that can make use of it.
<nephele>
I doubt it
<OscarL>
(that would make me feel more at ease)
<nephele>
you see, i worked in waste disposal. And here people just throw away working computers
<OscarL>
maybe could be turned into a "test" buildmaster? :-D
Anarchos has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
:-(
<OscarL>
here we use stuff till even I can't use it :-D
<nephele>
I'm guessing this computer would make more impact for you then for me
<OscarL>
(that's why I ended up with 3 Atom based netbooks, two without screen)
<nephele>
(I have a *lot* of hardware, some just to port haiku onto... lol)
<nephele>
anyway, if you ever figure out if insuring packages actually works i can send you something, either a motherboard with psu or a mini-pc or something
<nephele>
(and it wouldn't really be risking my money then, that's what the insurance should cover... but i rather hope it ensures proper delivery)
<OscarL>
thanks :-)
<Anarchos>
Ah i finally found ! I had to specifify both --cross-tools-prefix (one for x86_gcc2 and one for x96), as it is indeed a cross-compilation of buildtools if i am on x86_64, compiling for x86_gcc2 and x86 !!! I should have guess that before :/
<nephele>
Anarchos: maybe you can make a PR for that site to improve documentation. Maybe a new "Building on 64bit haiku" section
<Anarchos>
well i hope not to have speak too early ...
<OscarL>
k, let's move beautifulsoup4 away from Python 3.9.
<Anarchos>
nephele indeed, it failed....
<Anarchos>
time to sleep
Anarchos has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]