<Monni>
Begasus: Too early for that kind of precision ;)
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<Begasus>
heh
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<Monni>
Begasus: This week I had to write in Thai at work... First time for me...
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<Begasus>
congrats Monni :)
<Monni>
Begasus: In last 20 years I have noticed knowing English isn't enough... 20 years ago I used 13 different languages in a month, now that number is a little higher...
<gordonjcp>
I mostly just use English and German these days although now that V2.0 is about ready to start school I use more Gaelic
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<gordonjcp>
I can order food and beer in French, that's about it, but everyone in France speaks perfect English anyway
<Monni>
I mostly use Spanish and English at work, but with other companies I have to use various Asian languages...
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<Monni>
People looked at me funny when in Argentina they tried to speak Spanish so I wouldn't understand... Then I replied to them in Spanish...
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<Begasus[m]>
Monni at work? I thought you were retired? :P
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: I am... But I still own 49% of the company...
<HaikuUser>
Is there something to repair the file system ?
<HaikuUser>
I think I corrupted the fs by using other Haiku installation to copy files to my Desktop folder.
<HaikuUser>
There was no Desktop folder only /boot/home/home folder. I can read those files using Find but their location is "-" and Terminal returns "bad data" when I try to cd into that folder.
<Begasus>
Desktop folder should be in /boot/home/Desktop?
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<nephele>
hello there
<HaikuUser>
I know, but when I opened that USB Stick from Haiku USB Stick 2 there was no Desktop folder there - only "/home/home" that have the Desktop's icon.
<Monni>
I got ghost folders few days ago... but they disappeared after rebooting.... Happens if you try to mount disk with duplicate name and unmount it without rebooting...
<HaikuUser>
I try to reboot.
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<Begasus>
Hi nephele
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<nephele>
Begasus: copying my proj to another pc over ssh... i want to use the bigger screen normally but keep starting stuff on the older pc xD
<Monni>
I just use RDP to share screen between operating systems...
<nephele>
doesn't really help when the newer pc has a much higher resolution
<Begasus>
nephele, I can use the external monitor/screen over HDMI on Windows and move the VM there, if both were side to side it would work I guess, but not the screen above the screen from the laptop (neck doesn't like it for too long)
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<Begasus>
hi nexus6!
<nexus6>
Hi Begasus and everyone!
<Monni>
I use 4k display with Haiku using 1600 pixels wide VESA mode...
<Monni>
If Haiku would support my hardware, I could use it on HD Ready TV that has better native resolution...
* Begasus
is happy enough with native resolution on the laptop ...
<Monni>
I sometimes mirror my phone screen over WiFi or Bluetooth... Not too bad delay...
<HaikuUser>
I think I made some wrong settings in AutoRaise and now I can't bring different apps Windows to the front by clicking on the window, only clicking on decorator brings them to front.
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<HaikuUser>
Is there some tool similar to ckhdsk for BeFS? I copied some files from FAT32 partition to my Desktop and they don't appear in Terminal or Tracker, I can only find them with Find and then their location is "-".
<HaikuUser>
They open but I would like to delete them. Not sure what caused this because I was running another Haiku installation in Live mode to copy them.
<Begasus>
checkfs
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<HaikuUser>
checkfs reclaimed free space on that volume so I can see more free space now but those files are still there I can find them using Find and play them in MediaPlayer.
<Monni>
checkfs doesn't fix if the file size is correct... it still thinks the file is valid... I'm not sure if it is possible to move the files to another folder, but that might refresh the location, but might also crash hard...
<Monni>
There is various reasons why location shows up as "-", one reason is that the file is stored inside filesystem image that isn't mounted in single folder, but uses overlay instead...
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<HaikuUser>
I can not find the location of those files. But I haven't checked from the Live system I used to copy them.
<HaikuUser>
So I will boot into that system maybe this will help. When I was copying them there was no /boot/home/Desktop on that partition only /boot/home/home with Desktop icon so that's where I copied them.
<Monni>
There might be a command for Terminal that will show where it thinks the files are located...
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<nephele>
why doesn't haikudepot show what a package provides logically :(
<nephele>
i.e the .packageinfo
<nephele>
trying to figure out what the correct devel: invocation is for lua5.2_devel, and having that displayed would be cool
<nephele>
huh pkgman install devel:liblua>=5.2 makes pkgman freeze....
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<Begasus>
something fishy there I guess nephele?
<nephele>
yeah, it should just return quickly if it doesn't know what is going on
<Begasus>
lua5.2_devel
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<Monni>
> redirects output, not sure where = is though ;)
<phschafft>
likely it asks something or similar. and the prompt just never makes it to you.
<phschafft>
that is why I suggest to *always* quote meta characters. even if it feels like they don't need in that context.
<phschafft>
(like when people use things like: find ... -name *.bla; always make it '*.bla' or \*.bla)
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<Monni>
"*.bla" also works
<Monni>
Sometimes shell creates file with weird name if it doesn't recognize what comes after redirection... As long as that filename is remotely valid...
<Monni>
Basically the filesystem driver does the validation, not shell...
<nephele>
ah yes. silly me. That is anooying
<Monni>
Deleting such files can be tricky as all the special characters need to be escaped...
<Monni>
In school we used to redirect descriptor 0 to NULL driver... Made the operating system pretty much useless...
<phschafft>
nephele: on of the reasons why all strings need to be quoted in SIRTX. to just never get into this game of the shell doing magic. ;)
<nephele>
what? you don't like magic? >:(
<nephele>
yesterday i unset LC_* and that fixed a build, that is real magic
<Monni>
Magic is just form of illusion ;)
<phschafft>
nephele: the manpage for patch recommends:
<phschafft>
I think that example, while here applied to diff, should make you think about those things when doing any kind of automated stuff.
<nephele>
for reference a compiles was choking on "1.0" beeing an unknown symbol
<phschafft>
maybe another item on the list for that container tool we talked about yesterday(?).
<nephele>
perhaps
<nephele>
a flag for a predictable environment
<phschafft>
I would consider doing it the other way around: having a clean env being the default.
<nephele>
Depends on the usecase, if it's intended for users too then unsetting their locale would be quite detrimental
<phschafft>
which brings us to the middle ground: keeping, cleaned up, and fresh.
<Monni>
Let's just name all functions by byte-width of the return value and number of parameters... symbol mangling can't get any simpler ;)
<phschafft>
like reseting some stuff (PATH, session variables, ...)
<phschafft>
the problem with that, Monni, is that it's actually not that far away from the perfect implementation.
* nephele
read something some days ago about c++ proposal to define byte as beeing 8 bit
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<phschafft>
haven't they includeded that like in the second last standard?
<Monni>
phschafft: There used to be operating system where function names in symbol tables were just numbers...
<nephele>
it said that until now it is implementation defined
<phschafft>
nephele: maybe it only got into the C standard then? not sure.
<phschafft>
just reading about it at least before the two recent standards. so it is a topic that is in the air for some time.
<nephele>
C vs POSIX vs C++ battle royale
<nephele>
haikus default locale is named POSIX, which mpv has a problem with because they really wanted to set one named C
<phschafft>
POSIX has actually a very good definition for my taste. It lets you do a all sane operations and still doesn't over-define stuff that might break on the next generation of computers.
<nephele>
not one that is equivalent to C
<phschafft>
Monni: yes. but most of that was... not fun. I'm more talking about a more theoretical/formal definition of function.
<Monni>
phschafft: It wasn't fun trying to figure out what all those numbered functions did... But that was just an example of how short function names can be...
<Ellenor2000>
we live in a hell world
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<phschafft>
we still have that system.
<Monni>
Even modern compilers support functions with no name...
<phschafft>
I mean, symbols are nice and all, but at runtime they are converted to pointers (which are numbers). which is visible e.g. if you debug.
<phschafft>
and syscalls are also most of the time just nummered.
<phschafft>
ioctl and similar as well.
<phschafft>
so the concept stayed at least in some areas.
<phschafft>
I mean syscalls are generally not even translated at runtime or link time. they are translated at compile time.
<phschafft>
not very different from jumping at some random address as you used to for syscalls in much older systems.
<Monni>
interrupt vectors are basically functions with just ordinal...
<phschafft>
yes. we moved from call XXX to int XXX, and now to more modern ways to call the kernel, which still are just something XXX.
<phschafft>
and with stuff like the code exported into the process by the kernel (vsyscall, vdso, ...) we're back to call XXX ;)
<phschafft>
and I must add that anonymous functions are not 'modern'. but they are like a must-have for modern languages.
<Monni>
"int <n>" is just indirect jump.... same is used in userland when function depends on instruction set of the CPU that eventually runs the program... Not always the same as on the host compiling the program...
<Monni>
anonymous functions are quite useful when you need to delay execution of something after some other function finishes, like as a callback function... In normal cases all the variables would go out of scope when the original function ends...
<phschafft>
yes, what I said.
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<phschafft>
I find anonymous functions useful even without closures.
<phschafft>
callbacks are one of the examples.
<nephele>
call me back, before you go go
<phschafft>
nephele: btw. was your request for a meeting for today or was it more a general 'we should maybe do that sometime or not'?
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<nephele>
I'm a bit confused what you are reffering to
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<phschafft>
the namespace topic.
<nephele>
ah, yesterday. Well I think "next time" fits. But i don't feel like audio chatting today. Have to go outside and get some covid tests and am preparing for that
<phschafft>
have fun.
<phschafft>
just wanted to make sure. I'm also a bit packed today.
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<OscarL>
but the earlier state booted fine, and I even removed the SSD, and same pacic occurs in hrev58265 :-(
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<Begasus>
I still look forward to the day I can boot my thumbdrive :)
<OscarL>
and I thought... I'll just do a quick test while drinking a coffee, before going downtown to run some errands...
<OscarL>
never such thing as simple testing :-D
<Begasus>
heh right there!
<OscarL>
Also... had to just blacklist the HDA driver on 32 bits... it is just not reliable anymore on my machines since I left beta4 :-(
<Begasus>
well, same here in the VM with sound, no progress in testing PlasmaTube and the likes
<OscarL>
Begasus: like yesteday... "let's do some quick update to hatchling"... https://bpa.st/4XALO (in the end korli did the update the "easy" way :-D)
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<Begasus>
yeah saw it in the logs :P
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<OscarL>
guess I should first run "pkgman full-sync", and see if the issue still persists on latest nightly before reporting, right? :-)
<OscarL>
(k, got rid of locally built packages, now pkgman full has a chance of finishing without errrors :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
and hope to fix booting? :)
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: welp... I had some "famous" zlib locally built packages in there after all...
<OscarL>
but hrev58179 booted with them just fine, so... they were not the problem, I think.
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
at least one got lucky :P
<OscarL>
another plus to be able to use the same install in bare-metal, and under VM.
<OscarL>
s/to be/of being/
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<OscarL>
welp, update to hrev58285 was fast. First a reboot still on the VM... All good.
<OscarL>
\m/ bare-metal time! \m/ (I'll be back, I hope)
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<OscarL_32>
Live from hrev58285 32 bits bare metal \m/
<OscarL_32>
boot a tad slow, but... hey... worked! :-D
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<Begasus>
nice :)
<OscarL_32>
Issue *must* have been PAE related.
<OscarL_32>
because 32 bits... and on bare metal I have 8 GB, and on VM only 2 GB.
<OscarL_32>
saves me writting a ticket, so... /me happy :-)
<Begasus>
lol
<OscarL_32>
back to testing microcode loading then now.
<Begasus>
8GB here in VM, 6GB on bare 32bit
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<OscarL_32>
welp, no go on 32 bits either with korli's proposed changes :-( (fails too boot on 32 bits too).
<nephele>
phschafft: working on fDataSync
<phschafft>
oh?
<nephele>
int fdatasync(int fd) { RETURN_AND_SET_ERRNO_TEST_CANCEL(_kern_fsync(fd, true)); }
<phschafft>
yes.
<nephele>
so it now checks if the FS has a fdatasync call
<nephele>
and if it does not it will fall back to fsync
<nephele>
seems fine i thinK?
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<nephele>
maybe someone wants to take up switcher and fix that up
<Begasus>
k, nearing the end on checking the modules for clisp
* OscarL
wants to get back at doing some acpi_thermal testing. Works fine on older hardware, but gives non-sensical data on most "modern" one (Celeron N4020).
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<Monni>
I should try figuing out why rebooting from bootloader doesn't actually reboot my machine and instead continues the boot process...
<Begasus>
we all have our issues Monni :)
<Monni>
I can cycle through all the previously saved states just by telling bootloader to reboot ;)
<OscarL>
(fixing acpi_lid would be nice too... to make it trigger screen/backlight off on drivers where that works)
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<nephele>
I think on radeon_hd we don't have backlight *off* but could probably add that
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<OscarL>
(for the record, acpi_lid mostly works, just gives wrong state on first read)
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<Skipp_OSX>
does Cmd+H not work for file panels for you guys?
<Skipp_OSX>
(to go home)
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<Skipp_OSX>
it works fine here idk what he's talking about...
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<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb b5452dc - Slayer: update to latest commit
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<Skipp_OSX>
vmware fusion intercepting the shortcut... yes I ran into that the other day myself.
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<Begasus[m]>
closing down here, cu peeps
<zdykstra>
seeya Begasus[m] !
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<Anarchos>
who can close tickets ?
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<Skipp_OSX>
I can close tickets...
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: if you think a ticket can/should be closed... you can usually just leave a comment to that effect on the ticket in question.
<Skipp_OSX>
doesn't mean somebody won't reopen them right afterwords though
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah if you think a ticket can be closed probably best to leave a comment rather than closing so it doesn't get reopened
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<OscarL>
... humdinger, diver, or other of the "usual suspects" will act on it if they agree :-)
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<Anarchos>
OscarL will do tomorro then
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<Anarchos>
i couldn't netboot anymore
<Anarchos>
netherless, the haiku-netboot.tgz file expands to more t han 10Mb so the kTarRegionSize in /src/system/boot/loader/file_systems/tarfs/tarfs.cpp must be bumped to 11 * 1024 *1024