ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58229] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=2116682cac0f+%5E8b813adf6df7
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 2116682cac0f - bootloader: Round up heap region allocation sizes to B_PAGE_SIZE.
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<Monni> jam is just plain dumb... Spent hours trying to figure out how to add missing packages to ISO file.... Doesn't like package name, have to use package filename...
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<Begasus> morning peeps
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/017a553b993b...f96c17e92904
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb f96c17e - ponpokodiff: update to v0.5.1
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<humdinger> Are the buildbots on strike again?
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<Begasus> yep humdinger
<Begasus> seems like a thing lately :(
* humdinger sees Bender in a picket line "Fair wages for bots!" 0/
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<Begasus> we could use qtwebengine for Qt6 :)
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<Monni> World was so much better before they resurrected Futurama... Now people just wait for next season and wonder what happens next...
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<Begasus[m]> plop
<Begasus> back :)
* phschafft waves a good morning
<Begasus> morning phschafft
<Monni> morning Begasus
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<phschafft> :)
<phschafft> All good?
* phschafft offers Begasus and Monni each a cookie.
<Monni> Eh...
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<Monni> Running hrev58214 now... let's see how many KDLs I get today...
<Monni> gotta love using sed -i to change Haiku revisions...
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<OscarL> LOL at htop showing CPU usage "100.1%" on the cursed netbook. I guess it is doing it's giving its best? :-P
<Monni> In Russia best effort is 107%
<OscarL> even https://build.haiku-os.org/ is down (redirects to haiku-os.org) :-/
<OscarL> https://ci.haiku-os.org/ still up.
<OscarL> but seems today's build hasn't triggered.
<Begasus> re
<Begasus> thanks for asking and the cookie phschafft :)
<OscarL> wb Begasus.
<Begasus> hi OscarL Monni
<OscarL> 107.4% CPU usage, this Atom is being overworked! :-P
<OscarL> wonder how difficult would be to add load averages to /bin/uptime and to htop.
<OscarL> (on Haiku, I mean, of course)
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<Begasus> patches welcome? :)
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<OscarL> "Indoor Humidity
<OscarL> 88%", no wonder it feels so hot, even with 20°C (at 6 AM :-/).
<Monni> Here it's so dry that even flies go to bath...
<OscarL> usually pretty dry/arid down here most of the year. No wonder I'm feeling it so much.
<Monni> I've collected like 40 dead flies in last week only... They come indoors and can't get out...
* phschafft wonders if the indoor humanity will at some point reach 88%.
<Monni> Usually it's 39-52°C here depending on time of day, but lately it's been really cold...
<OscarL> phschafft: for some definitions of "humanity", I'm doing my part by not going outside too much! :-P
<OscarL> 52°C? and I complaing about our 42-45 all summer long :-)
<Monni> OscarL: Trees here are too short to cover sunlight... And the angle is prettty good to heat up building on top of hills...
<phschafft> OscarL: hm...
<OscarL> same here. my house having a tin roof and poor insulation ain't helping :-)
<phschafft> got this machine out of storage. it's a dell.
<phschafft> first thing: smells like it's on fire, guess it has a bit of dust to burn.
<OscarL> :-)
<Monni> OscarL: It's flat tar roof on this building.... They're repairing it currently...
<phschafft> also the usual thing: 2 1/2 minutes for the BIOS to do it's BIOS things, then 2 1/2 seconds for the OS to boot. all while loud and consuming way too much power for nothing.
<OscarL> that's why I want the cursed netbook to work OK... it is pretty slow... but without screen, pretty low power at least.
* phschafft nods.
<phschafft> this machine is from a client. but we use it as an eletric heater mostly.
<phschafft> it requires like 300 W idle. with *all* my other machines being more in the 3W idle or less range.
<Monni> My work PC is rated 600W, but it peaks at 1.2 kW when pushed to limits... It's quite easy to use for heating whole penthouse...
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* OscarL will time a clean `jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg` on the Atom N26000 to see where the baseline is.
<Monni> nightly doesn't even finish here... too many errors without patching...
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<OscarL> mmm, guess timing will be a bit off first time, as it will download some build packages. Oh well, at least will serve as an stability test :-)
<OscarL> (also not sure if I got the git tags :-/)
<Monni> My favourite hack is adding "AddPackageFilesToHaikuImage _packages_ : userland_fs.hpkg : nameFromMetaInfo ;" to UserBuildConfig... For some reason it will force jam to find all the missing targets...
<Monni> Otherwise the build will stop at haiku_devel.hpkg and it doesn't boot
<OscarL> only tweak I do is to comment out the 32 bits boot loader (to avoid the need for buildtools)
<OscarL> (talking about 64 bits installs/builds)
<Monni> I have buildtools... so no need to comment out anything... just increase the image size and add missing targets using the hack above...
<OscarL> Wonder if there's a hard limitation as to why buildtools is not an installable package one could instruct Haiku's ./configure to use (instead of having to clone/build it locally). Not that buildtools changes so often..
<Monni> I don't even boot the nightly image, just copy all files from /_packages_ and /system/packages and reset /boot/system/packages/administrative/activated-packages
<Monni> OscarL: Most likely it depends on host libraries and doesn't build all of them in-tree
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<OscarL> Would be nice to make the build system auto-detect the presence (or not) of buildtools, and disable the 32 bits boot loader automagically.
<Monni> OscarL: Too many people use 32-bit systems and it would have to be sure the target is 64-bit before disabling 32-bit boot loader ;)
<OscarL> I remember trying to do some Haiku stuff circa 2015, and repeatedly failing at even completing a shallow clone of buildtools.
<Monni> I used to use pretty old Linux release... But nowadays I use latest LTS release, so less problems...
<OscarL> Monni: my point is... imagine you're a newcomer just trying to fix a minor bug... having to clone/build buildtools as a hard requirement for, say, a bug fix on the Clock demo seems waaay overkill.
<Monni> OscarL: I went through all the trouble about 16 years ago...
<OscarL> docs could say... "unless you plan on building full images... you don't really need this stuff".
<OscarL> not much point in allow new people to have to deal with that wrinkle, IMO.
<Monni> I'm still counting all the old names that are not online on IRC or the bug tracker...
<Monni> brb... need more 0xc0ffee...
<OscarL> "warning: regexp escape sequence `\"' is not a known operator"
<OscarL> (gotta love the wrong usage of ` instead of ')
<Monni> Using ` will break any non-UTF-8 locale.... And there is still a lot of countries that don't use UTF-8 locales...
<OscarL> tell that to awk, that just printed that warning :-P
<Monni> I'm more of a sed user ;)
<Monni> At least it isn't using both ` and ´ ;)
<Monni> Using both grave and acute accent instead of apostrophe is just eww...
<OscarL> I would say that using `this´, even if ugly, is still at least more "consistent" than `this' :-)
<Begasus> 0_-
* Begasus needs to setup larger fontsize for Vision ...
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<Monni> I have 4K display that can't even show small characters like those...
<Monni> Gotta use 3x zoom (with 1.5x scaling) just to get small characters visible enough to be readable...
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* Begasus doesn't feel the need for "you gotta" :P
<Monni> In the world of Unicode, should just use left single quotation mark and right single quotation mark characters ;)
<Begasus> been there done that ... I'm retired, I do what I want :D
<Monni> Begasus: I've been retired since November 2017... And still not slowing down...
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<Begasus> didn't say I'm slowing down Monni, just on my terms now :)
<Monni> Begasus: And I feed the terms to my cats...
<Begasus> heh
<Monni> Begasus: Not gonna change with the world...
<Begasus> we thought we could do that 40 years ago Monni :)
<phschafft> that explains a lot....
<Begasus> ;)
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<N516[m]> anyway tried the new firefox port version?
<N516[m]> kenz updated the version
<Begasus> saw it earlier, haven't tried yet
<Begasus> N516[m] did you?
<N516[m]> downloading it but it takes 10 minutes
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<Begasus> stupid ... qrc:/qt/qml/org/kde/kdeconnect/app/Main.qml:11:1: module "org.kde.kdeconnect" is not installed
<Begasus> 2024-10-14T12:57:11 qt.bluetooth: Dummy backend running. Qt Bluetooth module is non-functional.
<Begasus> now you tell me! :P
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<Begasus> OscarL .... kallisti5[m] is in the house!!
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<Begasus> maybe we can lock him in the basement to fix the buildmasters first :D
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58230] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=66582b42a5f7+%5E2116682cac0f
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 66582b42a5f7 - Printers window position: fix initial position
<Begasus> matrix is waking up again :)
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<OscarL> Poor Alex got jumped right after crossing the door :-)
<N516[m]> <N516[m]> "downloading it but it takes 10..." <- the tar linked is empty seemingly
<N516[m]> N516[m]: likely my own error
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58231] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=7c6ab83094f7+%5E66582b42a5f7
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 7c6ab83094f7 - configure: detect supported retry flags for wget.
<Begasus> guess that bike ride did a good thing PulkoMandy :)
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58232] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8f0ecca94b83+%5E7c6ab83094f7
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8f0ecca94b83 - BAlert: Fix argument order
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<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/f96c17e92904...a719d2b46811
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus a719d2b - kphotoalbum, add (disabled) new recipe (#11211)
<N516[m]> <N516[m]> "likely my own error" <- nope it's not working
<N516[m]> oh
<N516[m]> it's because he named it wrong
<N516[m]> his file sharing service removed the tar part form his extension
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<N516[m]> input doesn't work
<Begasus> copy/paste didn't work (mentioned in the topic, maybe related)
<OscarL> darn Quad9 blocking "oshi.at" :-)
<N516[m]> <Begasus> "copy/paste didn't work (..." <- does it work for you?
<Begasus> haven't been able to launch it :)
<Begasus> weird archive ... nuking it ...
<N516[m]> the extension is changed because his file sharing
<N516[m]> it should be tar.bz2
<N516[m]> but it is jusy bz2
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<nephele> hi there
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<OscarL> renamed "ahux" to "firefox.tar.bz2", Beezer opens it up just fine (but slowly :-D)
<OscarL> I guess they forgot to unmark "randomize name" when uploading the file?
* OscarL waves at nephele
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<nephele> hi OscarL
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<nephele> i don't like that filesystems can't tell me how big folders are on their own :) would be nice to cache this info instead of having to calculate this when i actually ask about the info
<N516[m]> his firefox build is completely broken for me
<N516[m]> i have to dunk it outside the screen for it to refresh
<N516[m]> and input gets ignored
<N516[m]> I think I'm missing a dependecy
<nipos> That's because you didn't install his modified wayland_server
<nipos> The one from the repo doesn't include a important patch
<nipos> I made the same mistake when I tried the last build
<N516[m]> nipos: I did, or atleast I think I did, probably got overwritten with an update, thanks
<N516[m]> * an update since I installed that version months ago, thanks
<nipos> Yes,updating will overwrite it again.Hm,the same may happen for me too,thanks for pointing me to it
<nipos> Currently downloading it
<OscarL> (too many deps for me right now, back to bezilla! :-P)
<nephele> this is because SoftwareUpdates behaves the same like a "pkgman full-sync"
<nephele> you can use "pkgman update" on the commandline instead to only update some packages
<nipos> Ok,then I won't have the issue,I always use pkgman update
<nephele> i think with pkgman update you still need to pay attention if the haikuports version is newer than your installed one
<nephele> it just won't deinstall it *only* because haikuports doesn't have it
<OscarL> why "pkgman uninstall wayland" wants to uninstall "curl_devel" (among other things? what the heck is going on with this install?
<nephele> what are the other things?
<nephele> i think pulkomandy has a script in third_party in the haiku repo to visualize deps
<N516[m]> can't wait for firefox work :P been staring at this github spinning wheel for minutes
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<OscarL> nephele: libxslt_devel, wayland_server, ftgl_devel, qt6_base_devel, gd_devel, harfbuzz_devel, fontconfig_devel, glib2_devel libxml2_devel freetype_bootstrap.
<N516[m]> N516[m]: finally
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<nephele> OscarL: I'm wondering if this was maybe a "pulled in" dep, or something, and it just wants to clean up?
<nephele> i don't think pkgman currently understands the concept of auto-installed packages to be removed seperately
<nipos> LibreWolf would have been even better :P But yes,having Firefox in a usable state would be quite nice
<OscarL> attempting to uninstall just wayland_server gives the same list (minus wayland).
<N516[m]> nipos: librewolf is just firefox with fingerprint changes, you can probably get a close enough copy with user scripts
<Begasus> hi nephele
<Begasus> hi nipos :)
<nipos> hi Begasus
<Begasus> did we get all? ;)
<N516[m]> "nothing provides haiku>=r1_beta (bla bla bla) needed by wayland server"
<N516[m]> what does that mean?
<OscarL> same list even for "pkgman uninstall build_python39", sigh...
<N516[m]> s/wayland server/wayland_server/
<nephele> post the bla bla bla too and we might be able to tell you ;)
<N516[m]> it's just my version
<N516[m]> it's
<N516[m]> hrev57937
<nipos> N516: LibreWolf is Firefox with all the telemetry/spyware bullshit and bloat (Pocket,etc...) from Mozilla removed or disabled.Yes,you can do much of it with manual configuration,but LibreWolf makes it easier and provides sane defaults that should actually be standard for everyone who doesn't want to waste hours on fighting back their privacy.
<nipos> You probably need to update
<nephele> N516[m]: but what is the package?
<nipos> wayland_server was probably built against a newer Haiku hrev which it requires as minimum then
<nephele> nipos: don't need to guess, can check the package name
<nephele> N516 [m]: are you on a nightly install or on beta5?
<nipos> Okay,the Screenshot clearly confirms an update is needed
<nephele> i would be suprised if it wouldn't just offer to update then, in that case
<OscarL> hrev57937 is beta5
<OscarL> (IIRC :-D)
<Begasus[m]> screenshot mention 57980
<nipos> 57980 is the minimum the wayland_server package wants
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<Begasus> using a different one then in the depot?
<nipos> If you don't want to update to the Nightly version,you can instead rebuild the wayland_server with Kenz changes from source,that can be installed on your Beta5 then
<nephele> Begasus: yeah, they are trying to get the hacked together firefox to run ;)
<nipos> Firefox requires a patch to wayland_server
<nipos> It runs fine on my Nightly btw
<OscarL> (yeah, htrv57937_113 is the version on the beta5 .iso)
<N516[m]> going to repackage the wayland server
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<Begasus> jikes, nogo anyway here then :)
<nipos> A bit uncool to see that Sponsored bullshit on the start page.Have been using LibreWolf so long that I forgot it exists.But well,if Firefox works,building LibreWolf won't be a hard task as it's exactly the same codebase
<nephele> let's see how much progress we can make tuesday :)
<nephele> wondering if for the future other people might want to show off their work too, could make it a regular thing
<Begasus> waiting for qt6webengine so I can wach progress on konqueror :P
<nipos> I'll surely watch your stream again.The good thing is I don't have to work much this week,so I'm at home.But I'm not interested in streaming own stuff
<OscarL> before rebuilding wayland_server, I would try just unpacking the .hpkg, modifying the .PackageInfo file, and repackage it (might not even really need features from nightlies, given that 57980 hrev).
<nephele> nipos: did you learn interesting stuff?
<nipos> Yes,it was really interesting to see all the WebKit internals and how you worked with it.
<nephele> trying 10 times to make it compile? xD
<nipos> And it was amazing how fast you managed to implement Keyboard support.I couldn't have done that
<nipos> I'm always trying multiple times before it actually compiles,too
<OscarL> removed "activated-packages", rebooted, run pkgman full-sync (nothing todo). and still getting that insane list of things to uninstall for totally unrelated packages :-(
<nephele> next time we will use devconsole from pulkomandy, then i can show how that works
<nephele> OscarL: tried telling it "pkgman install curl_devel"?
<OscarL> let's see.
<nipos> Never heard of devconsole,what is that?
<OscarL> "already installed"
<nipos> I was quite surprised that you use a normal small text editor instead of an IDE for such a big project,by the way.I always use Genio.
<nephele> OscarL: well, i would say just let it deinstall them then. there is no critical packages, and then reinstall what you want
<OscarL> nephele: yup, but would be nice to understand what the hell is going on :-D
<nephele> nipos: I do want some "IDE-like" features... buuut, i don't like that nothing in Genio is pluggable
<nephele> Can't move out windows to a different workspace for example
<nephele> maybe on my 4k monitor genio would be kinda useable for me, but that doesn't help. I can't stream in 4k, nobody would be able to watch it pretty much
<nipos> Ah okay.Well,maybe it will come in a future version,they're working on Genio quite actively
<nephele> I doubt it, it's a different philosophy
<nephele> Paladin is a project editor that has "only" a list of files in the project for example, i could use that. but tracker is currently quicker, and the main parts i want i won't get
<nephele> like telling Koder where the "root" of the project is, so it only shows me where the file is in the project relative to that, instead of relative to /
<nipos> I never understood how Paladin works
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<nipos> Genio is more like what I know from other platforms.On GTK-based desktops I use Geany for example
<nephele> It's just a view of your project. you can tell it to build and stuff, and open files
<N516[m]> It worked and now it suddendly won't, only thing I did was update to newest stable version and install wayland required
<nephele> But really Paladin is "potential". In that, Haiku uses multiple windows for what on other OS might be in only one window. with BMessage we get a pluggability similar to what a shell can provide
<nephele> ideally it could look like this: Paladin starts Koder, tells it about the project, tells it to install shortcuts etc. those get transfered back to Paladin. It can start compiles with them etc
<nephele> the language server would be done by Paladin, your text editor only has to support some BMessages, and other than that your text editor is completely pluggable based on your preferences
<nipos> That's a good idea,but also sounds like a lot of work
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<nephele> you see I could contribute to Genio, but if i change stuff *I* don't like that is then changed to the detriment of other people, you can only make a mediocre one for everyone, or one with a huge number of options, or a specilized one
<nephele> if you have pluggability you can have your own enviroment that works for you
<nephele> and we already have Debugger, Koder (Or PE if you prefer) etc.
<nephele> also, i tried Genio and it was not really straightforward to setup, and i tend to give up on tools quickly if they are too complicated to use/setup for me
<nephele> ... once wrote a minetest gamemode because i could not install a different one
<nephele> or err, luasomething. have to look up the new name
<N516[m]> finally it works on a stable Haiku release
<nephele> N516[m]: please refrain from sending such messages over matrix
<nephele> It bridges them by sending a *webpage* you have to visit that is only valid for a short ammount of time, so nobody can even figure out what you are talking about in the logs
<nipos> nephele: I finally understand why you find Matrix annoying
<nipos> It didn't happen to me in *masses* before that I saw those links.
<N516[m]> yoy mean replying?
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<nephele> not sure what triggered that on the matrix side. But that could be it
<nipos> Avoiding the Matrix reply feature would make reading a lot easier already,yes.But it seems longer messages with multiple lines are also causing issues
<nephele> nipos: thing is, for a protocol that specialzes in bridging, with rooms *Dedicated* to bridges. It should really have some feature negotiation
<nipos> Yes
<nephele> Tell the clients "multiline messages don't work here!", tell them "don't use replies here" etc
<nephele> if somebody pasts 20 lines the client can then *directly* tell the user (on matrix) that it can't be send like that, but could be uploaded like a file instead
<nipos> > Tell the clients "multiline messages don't work here!", tell them "don't use replies here" etc
<nipos> How does that look like for you?
<nipos> (XMPP reply)
<nephele> one line "> message" next line your reply
<nephele> same as in irc really
<nipos> Okay, +1 for XMPP then :P
<nephele> but in irc usually people don't quote stuff that is two lines up
<nipos> I only wanted to try how it works here.I avoid quotes in chats
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<nephele> trying to find a forge to put haikuwebkit on
<nephele> asked in disroot now... can ask them in xmpp atleast
<nipos> Why not Codeberg?
<N516[m]> shame, seems that this firefox version triggers cloudflare badly
<nephele> for codeberg i have to use matrix, and i only have neochat and that works badly. But more importantly i don't have a codeberg account nipos
<nipos> N516: The problem is Cloudflare being shit actually.I have the same problem *everywhere* just for using Tor.I usually avoid pages that use Cloudflare if possible in any case
<nephele> nheko broke, quaternion broke. and now i have this kde client that doesn't quit properly, where all dialog boxes are transparent and behaves in performance like someone using discord with software rendering
<nipos> Why would you need Matrix for Codeberg?
<nephele> their support chat is in matrix
<nipos> Why do you need that?
<nephele> their tickets for such requests are on git, but i don't have an account
<nipos> Register for one?
<nephele> my username is taken by an "organization"
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<nipos> The fact that HaikuWebKit is hosted at M$ is quite disappointing btw
<nephele> Nipos. one copy of it is. The issue tracking is on trac.
<nipos> Maybe I'd also have a look at the code if it were at Gerrit and I could simply submit small patches that I'm able to make.But now I don't care.
<nephele> So if i just spin it up somewhere else you can send patches there aswell, switching haikuports to pull from another source is doable
<nephele> yeah it's not gerrit. but for codeberg atleast n0toose told me they have a tool called aGit (or similar name?) that works *kinda* similarily
<nephele> for example: no need for spurious forks
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<nipos> I have many projects on Codeberg already,works quite well for me
<nipos> Also I don't really care where it is as long as it's not GAFAM or requires and account with them
<nephele> codeberg supports foreign sign-in via github and gitlab
<nephele> so it would not be unreasonable to host haikuwebkit there
<nipos> I don't care if they support it,they should just not force me to it.So yes,that'd work for me as well
<nipos> I installed uBlock Origin in Firefox \o/
<nipos> Took some time as the process was quite buggy and now the popup to configure uBlock Origin doesn't show,but it's big progress
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<N516[m]> <nephele> "nheko broke, quaternion broke..." <- nheko broke? I'm using nheko to send you this message
<N516[m]> sorry
<N516[m]> reacting
<N516[m]> composting does seem off though
<nephele> It's not properly marking some shared library it needs. and i don't have it installed
<nephele> if you happen to have it installed it will probably for you
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<Begasus> NeoChat 24.08.2 together with libquotient latest rc is working pretty stable here so far
<nephele> i cant even scroll in neochat
<Begasus> scrollwheel broken?
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<nephele> It scrolls down, not up. but the scrollbars do not work
<Begasus[m]> scrollbars not working is on purpose/design
<Begasus[m]> but scrolling up (back in history) works here
<nephele> Uhh, warum?
<nephele> just looks like a normal scrollbar, then it better scroll like one
<Begasus[m]> must mah upstream fragen :P
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<Begasus[m]> asked that a while back, think volker gave me the answer it was meant that way
<Monni> Peope are supposed to turn their monitors upside down to be able to scroll in opposite direction?
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<OscarL> just shake it so the content view get loose and "falls down", revealing previous content at top :-P
<Monni> OscarL: Like those snow globe toys...
<Monni> Eine kleine Schneekugel...
<Begasus> a bit early for that Monni :)
<Begasus> only OscarL can make it snow now :)
<Monni> Begasus: Christmas ads start to come in July already ;)
<OscarL> haven't seen snow since Jul 2007... previous "snow sighting" for me was in 1991 (different part of the country).
<OscarL> nephele: I think you cursing my other netbook might have cancelled the curse on this one :-)
<nipos> You can also start to buy christmas sweets at end of July already :D
<Begasus> Monni, you find weirdos every where ;)
<OscarL> (either that, or nightlies fixed something, or this just works better when booting in UEFI than when booting in Legacy mode)
<OscarL> "jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg" took *only*: "real 211m36.023s"
<Monni> nipos: Here people need to preorder 6 months prior as everything is sold out if people wait for December to come...
<B2IA> (andreaa71) hullo from beshare ...
<nipos> We have to preorder christmas stuff when it's Easter at the manufacturers :D
<Monni> I managed to clone whole Haiku source repository using nightlie without single KDL...
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<nipos> It started to arrive last week, but I know others start selling it to customers at end of July already
<nephele> OscarL: excelent
<Monni> nipos: Some people say Christmas celebration starts on Saint Mary's Day, which is in late March...
<OscarL> 3 and a half ours for haiku.hpkg... not bad for such a slow machine, but not something to do on a hurry :-D
<OscarL> s/ours/hours/
<nephele> haha, who needs christmas when you have sinterklaas
<Monni> the H in hours is silent ;)
<OscarL> :-P
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<nephele> I want an input_server filter that hijacks the numpad and transfers all inputs a to a replicant of deskcalc on the desktop
<Monni> Just like G in GN or NG ;)
<nephele> and then teach deskcalc to do rpn calculation
<Monni> I need to teach Windows to do more than just connect to Haiku kernel... Redirecting serial port over network was fun experiment...
<nipos> Serial over network works great with IPMI if you have a compatible device :)
<Begasus> wasting a full day on something I know is not going to work ... but hey, it's "my" time :P
<Begasus> s/is/it's
* nephele made a ticket for hijacking the numpad
<nephele> maybe someone wants to do that too :D
<Begasus> I don't like gerrit :P
<nephele> Begasus: bait for arguments :P
<Begasus> here we go .... lol
<Begasus> maybe I could raise a topic at the forum, move Haiku's code to github? :D
<nephele> what would be the point of that?
<Begasus> arguments .... :)
<Begasus> pointless discussions? :)
<nipos> Seriously,moving even more stuff to that shitty walled-garden
<Begasus> see! :P
<nephele> nipos: watch out
<nephele> you fell for the trap
<nipos> Feel free to do that,but expect me to leave then
<Begasus> nipos, was pulling a leg here ;)
<nephele> Begasus: the forum has a premade ban reason for that "Reason: No constructive purpose to their actions other than creating dissent within the community"
<nephele> also begasus has a codeberg mirror of haikuports afaik
<nephele> so maybe just send prs there xD
<Begasus> yep
<Begasus> could do that, but mostly got some KDE stuff moving there :P
<nipos> Begasus: Speaking of code on the evil platform,you still haven't taken my dark theme for the build master that you wanted me to create,no?
<nephele> web mode dark themes, ui dark mode, nipos is taking over all my areas of expertise!
<Begasus> nipos, never said I would upstream it (haven't even checked that)
<Begasus> never did any PR for the website
<nipos> I don't like wasting my time.I said I expect it to be used if I invest time in it...
<nipos> nephele: I've been doing web stuff for 16 years now,so that's a lot easier for me than UI dark mode :D
<nephele> you can ask the haiku infrastrcuture team, maybe send a email to nielx or kallisti5
<Begasus> I only mentioned that the dark theme didn't work for me? never asked specifictly to fix or force someone to do it
<Begasus> iirc ...
<nephele> nipos: pah! web dark mode hasent existed for that long xD
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<nipos> True.You had to work with switches and store the setting in a cookie or localStorage before,not that easy to do
<OscarL> seems my issues with pkgman wanting to uninstall a bunch of _devel packages was due to this install somehow ending without zlib_devel installed.
<kallisti5[m]> nipos: eh. the buildmaster ui needs some work. It's functional but has a few issues that need resolved
<kallisti5[m]> for one, it parses a mega json file to load "all the builds" over time the UI has to work harder and harder to render
<nephele> nipos: the css dark mode is very easy to me
<nephele> straightforward to patch websites for it
<nephele> don't think i'd want any cookies for that
<nipos> Yes,with the implementation of CSS dark mode,it has become a lot easier to do
* OscarL is not touching the zlib recipe again for a while, just in case.
<nephele> kallisti5[m]: the buildmaster UI for the haiku CI or for haikuports?
<nipos> That CSS feature has only existed for a few years
<kallisti5[m]> buildmaster == haikuports
<nephele> ah okay
<Begasus> OscarL, and I'm not checking that again for some time :P
<nephele> Yes that ui is slow, but atleast it works for me
<nephele> Improving it would be welcome
<kallisti5[m]> wait...
<kallisti5[m]> https://build.haiku-os.org/ doesn't load
<kallisti5[m]> groans
<nephele> ah, nice, another redirect
<nephele> last time that was trac
<kallisti5[m]> www-build-64d8576457-pnzbp 0/1 ImagePullBackOff 0 29h
<kallisti5[m]> mmkay
<Begasus[m]> that sttill seems to show ok
<nipos> kallisti5: Maybe I can further improve the buildmaster website,but having the dark mode I made weeks ago be used would be cool
<kallisti5[m]> yeah.. it's the base index container
<nipos> That's the modified CSS if you want to bring it live: https://static.nikisoft.one/haiku-buildmaster/buildmaster.css
<nephele> Would be cool if we had some REST api kit in netservices, and code generator for openapi descriptions. then we could somewhat easily make native views for such things
<nephele> nipos: missing :root { color-scheme: dark light; }
<nephele> without that scrollbars will always appear in light mode
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<kallisti5[m]> nipos: so, the code is on github for it
<kallisti5[m]> you could submit a pr :-)
<nephele> also FWIW for most colors the Web exposes i hooked those up to native colors in Haiku, like document bg and such
<nipos> I won't touch that awful proprietary M$ walled-garden.
<kallisti5[m]> lol, ok
<kallisti5[m]> I support that.
<phschafft> Dell. When you plug in the monitor, thunder and lightning!
<nephele> kallisti5[m]: I'm trying to find an other forge to host a copy of haikuwebkit currently. maybe disroot or codeberg :)
<kallisti5[m]> we used codeberg already too
<kallisti5[m]> *use
<nephele> Though ideally i really want to have it on gerrit. iirc our infrastructure does not work for that? is it too big? can we make the infrastructure be able to support it?
<nipos> Is there a haikuporter mirror?I could make a PR there
<kallisti5[m]> our repo is big enough that we kinda stress their infra though
<kallisti5[m]> nah, just haiku right now
<phschafft> nephele: little interrupt: I was thinking maybe wen can use one of your next streams/interactive hacking sessions for my O_xxx stuff?
<nephele> phschafft: Hmm, i don't think this stream, but we could totally widen the scope to "Haiku" in general
<nephele> so, next next stream? :P
<nipos> All BSDs have mirror of their port trees there,with hundredthousands of commits.I don't think the Haiku repo is a major issue for them
<nephele> though haikuwebkit is about 16GB of size, that's not that nice to codeberg either :g
<nipos> Hm yes,WebKit is rather big,but the Haiku source isn't
<phschafft> nephele: yes, not the one tomorrow. the one after that maybe.
<nephele> should maybe publish the "planned topic" for such streams beforehand
<phschafft> but we could use tomorrows to just have a quick collecting ideas on how we could like share an editor over the stream or something.
<nephele> i think hacking together on it should be way easier for me too then ;)
<kallisti5[m]> anyway, build.haiku-os.org index fixed. The infra still was pointed at docker.io, while we moved to ghcr.io a while ago
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<nephele> oh wow, that tags view is really struggeling
<nipos> nephele: I added that :root thing,can you please check?
<nephele> check for?
<kallisti5[m]> nephele: yeah. We have all 20k tags in there.. but the UI flips out and refuses to show more than 19
<nipos> If it's done right
<nephele> well, it looks syntactically correct to me nipos
<nipos> Good
<nipos> Didn't know if it just needs to be added on top or somewhere else,never heard of it before
<nephele> however: this will change many *default* colors to their light/dark versions too
<nephele> so it might look a little different now :)
<nephele> no more light-mode inherited colors that have not been explicitly defined in the css
<kallisti5[m]> nephele: tag issue we reported: https://codeberg.org/forgejo/forgejo/issues/2754
<nephele> nipos: it's needed for stuff like native controls and such
<kallisti5[m]> I do like codeberg better than gh for the anti-microsoft reasons
<nephele> i'll brb, picking someone up from the station
<nipos> Codeberg is a lot better,yes
<kallisti5[m]> .. but until they (aka forgejo) can handle us, our hands are tied
<nephele> kallisti5[m]: well, codeberg or gerrit for haikuwebkit would be cool, can't really publish patches right now
<nephele> but ideally i want to review haikuwebkit patches in gerrit and not a "pr" view
<nephele> brb
<nipos> Isn't there the same problem on Github and therefore the tags are disabled?
<nipos> I think someone said that before
<kallisti5[m]> nephele: we could do gerrit... but i'm not sure gerrit would handle haikuwebkit well... it's *BIG*
<kallisti5[m]> (as you know lol)
<nipos> It's worth a try,no?
<nipos> Isn't Gerrit optimized for huge projects like this?
<kallisti5[m]> Gerrit says a lot of stuff. It's also java
<OscarL> pushing to gerrit is slow AF for me since... forever.
<OscarL> worst was around 6 minutes during the "remote: counting objects" step. After some gerrit updates, got around half of that at least.
<nipos> Yeah,pushing to Gerrit takes some time,that's true.Would be interesting if that gets worse with a bigger repository.Very possible,but maybe it's not as bad as we think now
<OscarL> besides that... gerrit web UI is so bad that makes me thing I designed it.
<OscarL> s/thing/think/
<nipos> The UI could be easier,but if you got used to it,it works good
<nephele_xmpp> its inspired by a tool they use internally
<nipos> It took some time for me to find out that after writing a reply,I have to hit the big Reply button on the top to actually send it.
<nephele_xmpp> gerrit is made by google but not used by google
<nipos> Lol?
<nephele_xmpp> For their huge internal stuff they have a different tool
<nipos> I saw it's made by Google so I thought they also use it for their big stuff like Chromium and that WebKit shouldn't be an issue then
<nephele_xmpp> kallisti5: can we disable stuff like their merge calculations to improve the performance?
<nephele_xmpp> nipos: google also splits up their stuff into tiny repositories, and they have a tool called repo... that uses git repos to manage more git repos
<nipos> Sounds fun to work with
<nephele_xmpp> Oh yes. I like checking out hundreds of gigbytes to compile an OS.
<nipos> You're talking about Android?
<nephele_xmpp> lineageos
<nipos> ...which is likely not smaller than original Android.Yes,that's frustrating.I'm happy that Haiku is rather small.
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<N516[m]> the current firefox port version really is cool. the only issue I find annoying is the copying and pasting (I can't use it for citing on my papers)
<nipos> Does uBlock Origin work fine for you?
<N516[m]> typing on youtube is killing my threads
<nipos> Then don't use that garbage site.Can't recommend Invidious enough.
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<N516[m]> how am i supposed to test ublock origin full capabilities then :p
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<nipos> Ah yes right,I forgot.
<nipos> I configure mine so that it completely blocks the Youtube site and everything else that belongs to Google lol
<nipos> My problem on Haiku is that the configuration site of uBlock Origin doesn't load at all.
<nipos> Maybe my old desktop is just not powerful enough.All CPU cores quickly go to 100% when using Firefox.Will retry on my more powerful laptop.
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<Begasus> didn't supprise me here :) https://0x0.st/X6Ut.png
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<Begasus[m]> kallisti5 buildmasters timed out again :)
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<Begasus[m]> OscarL reworked the script to uninstall/install the KF6 frameworks https://github.com/Begasus/HaikuScripts/blob/master/KDE%20scripts/installKF6-frameworks.sh
<Begasus[m]> worked for on the first run uninstalling alle the KF6 devel packages
<OscarL> nice :-)
<Begasus[m]> https://github.com/Begasus/HaikuScripts/blob/master/KDE%20scripts/installKF5-frameworks.sh this was how it used to be (this one still for KF5) :)
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<kallisti5[m]> <Begasus[m]> "kallisti5 buildmasters timed out..." <- 😥
<Begasus> won't be an easy job like this bumping the KF6 frameworks :P
<nephele> "Dieser weg wird kein leichter sein~"
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<nielx[m]> FYI: I am going to deploy a discourse bug fix release 3.3.2 (https://github.com/haiku/infrastructure/issues/143)
<nielx[m]> Starting a backup now (the site is read-only)
<Begasus[m]> it's kinda busy at the forum :)
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<nielx[m]> Sorry :-)
<nielx[m]> take a moment to reflect
<nielx[m]> back in 5 :-P
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<nielx[m]> Deploying right now (it is compiling JS and CSS)
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<nielx[m]> And we're back
<botifico> [haiku/infrastructure] nielx pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/haiku/infrastructure/compare/6598a9dada36...202b7dedfed0
<botifico> [haiku/infrastructure] nielx 202b7de - Discourse: update to 3.2.2 (from 3.2.1)
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<Begasus[m]> working :)
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58233] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=86c015295d2a+%5E8f0ecca94b83
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 86c015295d2a - Tracker: Fix argument order
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<B2IA> (andreaa71) hullo from beshare ...
<nephele_xmpp> hello from xmpp
<Coldfirex> @waddlesplash: FYI on ticket#18140, I will no longer have access to a server with these amounts of memory after this week.
<B2IA> (andreaa71) qmmp ?
<waddlesplash> Coldfirex: ok
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 7 commits to master [hrev58234] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8bacd281ba51+%5E86c015295d2a
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 2a39b810fa53 - configure: Allow specifying Python interpreter in HOST_PYTHON.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] a2afad0d66f1 - libroot: Use timespec_to_bigtime in clock_nanosleep.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8a19a29283f4 - FAT: Remove some unused macros and #ifndef around the remaining ones.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8f383fa10e87 - ftw.h: Remove unneeded #include <features.h>.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 916e681ca5a3 - kernel.h: Add a HOWMANY macro and make use of it.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] e5f515c322c2 - sys/select.h: Remove howmany() macros.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8bacd281ba51 - sys/param.h: Cleanup.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58235] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8251b2c8f6c7+%5E8bacd281ba51
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8251b2c8f6c7 - usb_audio: add missing descriptors for USB Audio 2.0 and update listusb.
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<Begasus> ah jmairboeck!
<Begasus> was waiting for you to drop in :)
<Begasus> I think there is still an issue with cmake-gui, it doesn't take the prefix when set?
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<Begasus> as you can see, I've set it to /boot/home/destdir, but in Terminal when installing it takes /system/lib
<jmairboeck> that's weird. What is generated in CMakeCache.txt in the build dir?
<jmairboeck> I thought that the gui works the same as the CLI version (or rather, similar to ccmake)
<jmairboeck> but, to be honest, I never really used cmake-gui much, except on Windows
<Begasus> looks OK in CMakeCache.txt
<Begasus> no mention in the generated Makefile?
<Begasus> never really used it also, just tried it out on a fairly easy source :)
<jmairboeck> did you forget to press Generate after changing it?
<Begasus> nope :)
<Begasus> fill in the blanks, configure ... generate
<Begasus> then in Terminal "make -Cbuild -j8"
<jmairboeck> no idea then
<Begasus> k, np here, just wanted to mention, maybe someone will get back to it
<Begasus> anyway, 'nough playing for today, closing down here
<Begasus> cu peeps!
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<jmairboeck> nipos: I submitted a PR for your buildmaster CSS changes: https://github.com/haikuports/haikuporter/pull/300
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 2 commits to master [hrev58236] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=255bf69fbc07+%5E8251b2c8f6c7
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 16e96d6e0440 - bootloader/bios_ia32: Add an assertion and clean up rounding in MMU code.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 255bf69fbc07 - kernel/vm: Clean up virtual addr_range processing and rounding.
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<nipos> jmairboeck: Thanks,but could you please also do logviewer.css?
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<jmairboeck> nipos: done, I updated the PR
<nipos> Thanks
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<mattlacey> Geez, it's been a long time since I built Haiku from source, and I usually do it on Haiku rather than something more established
<mattlacey> just did a build under Linux using 8 threads (keeping a few free for other code I'm doing) and it really didn't take very long at all
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58237] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=19141f211047+%5E255bf69fbc07
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 19141f211047 - Revert "bootloader/bios_ia32: Allocate physical memory from the kernel separate from the bootloader."
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58238] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=fb993aa0637c+%5E19141f211047
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] fb993aa0637c - kernel/vm: Fix typo in allocate_kernel_args.
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<B2IA> (#haiku-> (0 / Butler) ) catslo
<B2IA> (Butler) Rebooted on Mon Oct 14 21:27:00 2024 GMT
<Monni> hrev58238 still throws to KDL at very early stage...
<Monni> ffffffff81a1bf60 (+ 216) ffffffff8005a848 <kernel_x86_64> boot_splash_set_stage() + 0x148
<Monni> vm_soft_fault: va 0xffffffff81494000 not covered by area in address space
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<waddlesplash> Monni: are you really sure? I got that before ...38 but 38 fixed it
<waddlesplash> are you sure that isn't ...37?
<Monni> waddlesplash: I'm sure... I tested both 36 and 38...
<waddlesplash> does your syslog really say ...38?
<Monni> waddlesplash: It crashes long before it even starts writing syslog...
<waddlesplash> there is a syslog KDL command. and it is also printed to serial out
<Monni> waddlesplash: it doesn't show KDL on screen, only on serial port...
<waddlesplash> okay... so what does the serial log say?
<waddlesplash> for hrev
<Monni> waddlesplash: no hrev whatsoever...
<waddlesplash> it's definitely in there somewhere
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<Monni> waddlesplash: the whole serial output is just handful of lines... it initializes the serial port quite late for some weird reason...
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<waddlesplash> "Welcome to kernel debugger output!
<waddlesplash> 217Haiku revision: hrev58228, debug level: 2"
<waddlesplash> you don't have this?
<waddlesplash> are you building a KDEBUG level 1 or 0 build?
<Monni> Nope... it just initializes 2 CPUS (I have 3), and FPUs, then it crashes...
<Habbie> here's some back seat driving: hrev sounds important enough to have at any debug level
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<waddlesplash> Habbie: it should, unless serial out is disabled
<waddlesplash> Monni: did you update your bootloader too?
<Habbie> waddlesplash, ah ok, then i was happy i labeled it back seat ;)
<Monni> waddlesplash: I updated all hpkg packages....
<waddlesplash> ok. any other modifications to the source?
<waddlesplash> doesn't make any sense that serial out starts so late.
<Monni> waddlesplash: nope... only changes are adding userland_fs to the nightly ISO as that avoids package_daemon going amok...
<waddlesplash> well mine doesn't need that...
<waddlesplash> Monni: can you run KDL commands over the serial line?
<Habbie> waddlesplash, oh that reminds me, the triple fault AMD thing, would serial be any benefit there? i'm guessing no
<Habbie> because i have the components to add serial to the box i think
<waddlesplash> I doubt it
<waddlesplash> I think someone else tried getting serial before and there was nothing
<waddlesplash> I mean, if you are really dedicated then adding serial traces we could maybe hope to narrow down the fault location
<waddlesplash> but that would not be easy probably
<Monni> waddlesplash: Haven't tried if that works so early in the boot process... But I can try after I reboot Haiku again...
<waddlesplash> please do
<waddlesplash> if it does, use "syslog" command
<waddlesplash> and see if it's the right hrev
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<Monni> waddlesplash: it doesn't allow keyboard input using serial port...
<waddlesplash> odd. it does for me in QEMU
<waddlesplash> so serial in definitely works
<Habbie> waddlesplash, adding serial traces as in, increase debugging in -suspected- bad places
<waddlesplash> Monni: try updating the packages again, "just to be sure"
<waddlesplash> because it really just looks like the fault I saw before that fixed
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<Monni> waddlesplash: I tried with both old and new bootloader... With old bootloader it can load the new kernel, but new bootloader can't load new kernel...
<waddlesplash> which hrevs?
<Monni> hrev57937+122 and hrev58238
<waddlesplash> ok, so the beta5 bootloader and current kernel?
<Monni> yup...
<waddlesplash> ok
<waddlesplash> ok, so it's not the kernel ranges causing a problem now at least
<waddlesplash> are you REALLY sure the bootloader rebuilt after the most recent revert commit?
<waddlesplash> because this looks like behavior I was seeing earlier
<waddlesplash> without earlier serial out this may not really be debuggable
<mmlr> the latest change at least fixes the asserts under KVM without PAE
<waddlesplash> Monni: if your keyboard is attached via PS/2 you can try typing at that while serial is connected also
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<Monni> waddlesplash: Pressing any key on keyboard just reboots...
<waddlesplash> ugh
<waddlesplash> Monni: can you try with the hrev58227 bootloader?
<waddlesplash> and current kernel
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<Monni> waddlesplash: I don't like bricking my system...
<waddlesplash> well, if you aren't interested in bisecting and debugging this, it simply isn't going to get fixed unless someone else can reproduce
<waddlesplash> I will try more configurations later
<waddlesplash> but there's no guarantee I'll find one that reproduces
<Monni> waddlesplash: takes sometime to build a new image... I can try to boot from ISO with hrev58227 bootloader, but use kernel on hard disk...
<waddlesplash> or just revert all bootloader changes back to that and build a full image
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<Monni> waddlesplash: href58227 bootloader fails the same way... even before loading kernel
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<waddlesplash> Monni: PANIC + stack trace *is* in the kernel
<waddlesplash> but the trace is the same? in the boot splash?
<Monni> waddlesplash: It doesn't crash at same spot every boot...
<waddlesplash> well then it doesn't "fail the same way"
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<Monni> first boot I get kernel panic, when I try to reboot, it stops before allowing to enter boot menu...
<waddlesplash> if the kernel panic varies between boots that's important information
<Monni> the point why I tried with very old bootloader is to get to the boot menu to enable serial output...
<waddlesplash> well that explains it
<waddlesplash> the beta5 loader has boot serial out disabled
<waddlesplash> you need to use a nightly loader of similar vintage for serial out
<Monni> waddlesplash: with nightly bootloader it crashes before enabling serial output ;)
<waddlesplash> I said "of similar vintage"
<waddlesplash> so get a loader from around the time b5 was branched
<Monni> what hrev would that be?
<waddlesplash> the hrev without the +?
<Monni> So... hrev57937 bootloader with latest kernel?
<waddlesplash> yes
<Monni> waddlesplash: hrev57937 bootloader can boot latest kernel
<Monni> To me, seems like the "new" bootloader can't handle cold start (reboot), but can handle normal power up...