<Begasus[m]>
This has been around at haikuports in a PR for quite some time, why ask now?
<Begasus[m]>
for the record, solves cycling dependency
<Begasus[m]>
wasn't mine also (that one broke my bare install which I still haven't recovered)
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<nipos>
waddlesplash: Just wanted to test your fix for 128GB RAM,but the latest Nightly hpkg is hrev58204 which was before your fix.Need to wait some more days,it seems.
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<nephele>
hi there nipos :)
<nipos>
Good morning :)
<nephele>
Those darn dark mode issues keep cropping up
<nephele>
You have been quite effective at removing many of those :D
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<nipos>
With some good luck,I'll have time to work on that again next week
<nephele>
darn, what good are those packagekit memory improvements if webpositive eats all my ram
<nephele>
have like discourse open and 2 trac tabs and it's hovering at 1.5GB again. why
<nephele>
nipos: maybe i'll also finish some more soon. Also gonna adopt the hsl code for my previous patches to aboutSystem and TeamMonitor
<nipos>
That's modern webbrowsers.Can't say that LibreWolf is any better in that way
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<nephele>
I doubt that is modern webrowsers. I think that is just a memory leak >:(
<nephele>
close all tabs, only have one empty "new tab" open and it still takes 1.5GB of ram
<nipos>
Currently compiling LibreWolf 131.0.2 to get rid of that major security vulnerability discovered yesterday
<nipos>
(On OpenIndiana,still no luck with it on Haiku)
<Monni>
Closing tabs doesn't actually free the memory that those tabs used... Modern browsers use delayed freeing...
<nephele>
close WP, open it again... 220mb
<nephele>
that's more what i want to see
<nephele>
Monni: Have you looked at haikuwebkit code to back this up?
<Monni>
Object pools have been used for at least 20 years by now...
<nipos>
nephele: Do you have any specific examples for more dark mode issues?I thought I fixed most
<nephele>
sure, a couple are still around
<Monni>
nephele: I have worked with WebKit for years...
<nephele>
for example replicant "outline" when dragging it on the desktop is always dark (and also does not scale with dpi)
<nipos>
There are still many unmerged patches from me laying around
<nephele>
also screen preferences refresh rate -> other
<nephele>
has dark text
<nipos>
Oh yes,that should be a easy one
<nipos>
Let's quickly fix that,still have a hour before going to work
<nephele>
Monni: so far most of your vague statements the last days have not been really helpfull, and misleading at best. memory usage constantly climbing in webpositive and then never getting freed is definetely not by design
<nephele>
nipos: I'll try to take a look at some unmerged patches of yours in the next couple days
<nipos>
Thanks
<Monni>
nephele: I'm not saying that there can't be a memory leak, but I'm saying that high memory usage is by design... Every delayed free saves one trip from userland to kernel which will make things a lot faster when there is a lot of allocations happening...
<nephele>
HaikuWebkit uses the system allocator, we are in control of what it does. Ram is there to be used, but a web browser engine that can't release the memory when it is needed elsewhere is defective
<nephele>
and the released version is still using webkitlegacy...
<nephele>
anyhow, with the hw Haiku is targeting i don't think optimizing for high memory usage is a good idea in any case
<nipos>
Optimizing to waste memory is never a good idea.I also own Windows stuff with only 2GB of RAM,that's not that uncommon
<Monni>
I've been wondering why developers use memory hogging web browser engine since I noticed browsers like Chrome use ridiculous amount of memory for rendering even simple websites...
<nephele>
neochat uses 160mb without even beeing open
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 0a5286c12006 - Screen: Use B_PANEL_TEXT_COLOR for text in the RefreshWindow
<nipos>
And someone probably thought it would be a good idea,for whatever reason
<nephele>
in other cases we have those spinboxes and i'd rather have sliders
<nephele>
so i guess you can't win xD
<nephele>
(for font size for example, live updating + sliders would be the Nice stuff)
<nipos>
Font size live-updating has a long way to go
<nipos>
Currently you should reboot after changing the font size.Not strictly required,but the alternative is killing/restarting stuff like Deskbar and Tracker and,of course,every single application you have currently opened,to make the change take effekt
<nephele>
Eh, that can be fixed.
<nephele>
it's similar to color live updating
<nephele>
the only thing you can't really nicely restart is teammonitor, since it sits in the input_server
<nipos>
I think font size updating will be more difficult than colors,since you also have to recalculate other sizes that are based on it,reposition windows as the window tab grows bigger,change window sizes when the task bar grows bigger and other things
<nephele>
lol, the slider view sais "Type or use left anf right arrow keys"
<nephele>
arrow keys work, typing doesn't
<nephele>
you don't need to reposition windows, they can stay anchored to top-left where they are. The tab grows to the top etc
<nephele>
all very possible
<nephele>
the bold font, for the tabs, already live updates
<nephele>
and the appearence preview for it *also* does, giving a bit of a demo how this would work
<nipos>
Correct,the window tabs do live-update,but bringing them out of view doesn't seem right
<nephele>
moving windows to be lower would be worse imo, pick your poison
<nephele>
zardshard: nice, got MiniBrowser without it linked to webkitlegacy :3
<nephele>
nipos: webkit2 port is taking form more and more :3
<nipos>
That's great :D
<nephele>
my plan was to implement keyboard and mousewheel events next, but trying to make a working debug build distracted me for 2 days, and it still doesn't work
<nipos>
It's not totally impossible that I may do small improvements to WebPositive after the migration is done
<nipos>
I mean,web browsers are incredibly complicated beasts.I looked at some easy things when you wrote me a DM on the forum some weeks/months ago,but I didn't even find out where to start,or how.
<nipos>
But I absolutely want to have Adblocking,and if it's somehow possible with WebKit2,I may try to finally get into it and make it work.Or alternatively: Try,fail,cry and wait for something else to do it xD
<nephele>
the thing is webkit is a big codebase and it is intimidating, but if you have some starters it's really not that hard
<nephele>
I was thinking of trying to set up a "coding stream" for webkit development, with live my voice and a text chat or something
<nephele>
stream a full-hd screen segment with the development stuff and pick one or two tasks to work on, talk to people about it and they can ask questions
<nipos>
Oh,some months ago I almost updated Qt5WebKit to the latest version,and I also failed with that one
<nephele>
just no clue how to set up videostreaming on haiku
<nipos>
WebKit changes so fast and patches that worked for previous versions just don't do anymore.It was a lot of effort and left me with a big wall of errors I had no idea where they may come from
<nipos>
They forked it and rebased it on a recent WebKit version.
<nephele>
i am aware of that project. afaik they did not have any releases yet?
<nephele>
and also, same problem with wk2 vs wkL that we have, no?
<nipos>
Uhm that could be the reason it didn't work lol
<nipos>
I thought the master branch is expected to work and that it didn't was my mistake.Probably not.
<nephele>
Well no, the readme sais otherwise ;)
<nephele>
i'd rather pull you in and trick you into working on our native webrowser regardless :P
<nipos>
I gave up on the browser stuff long ago ;)
<nipos>
From time to time I test if SerenityOS Ladybird still compiles with my patchset,and I keep maintaining the latest LibreWolf for OpenIndiana,but that's minor tasks.Besides that,fixing bugs in Haiku itself is easier and sometimes more important (you need a OS that works right,before worrying about 10 browser ports)
<nephele>
Well, we only want *one* browser port ideally. And that is native software as much as possible
<nephele>
webkit helps expose bugs and deficiencies in Haiku :)
<nipos>
I personally want *one* browser that supports Adblocking and Tor.In the pasts it was unrealistic that WebPositive would do that in the near future so I focused on other options instead,but now it's totally possible I think.Tor already works with the Curl backend and Adblocking,well,waiting for WebKit2 :D
<nephele>
adblocking already works partially with a hosts file
<nephele>
but the native adblocking api is faster, yeah
<nipos>
You told me a million times,but it's not enough
<nephele>
if you want to help in that regard maybe check how gnome web enabled/implemented that api and point me to it
<nephele>
I can see how much work it is then
<nephele>
but i'll also get around to that on my own eventually, it is also a concern for me
<nipos>
hosts doesn't even support wildcards,neither does it support paths that are on the same domain as the actual content.WebKit,like any good adblocker,should do that.
<nephele>
first comes keyboard support though, a bit more important i think
<nipos>
Finding out how GNOME Web does it should be doable for me,but please make it better than them
<nephele>
also webpositive needs some new UI to support per-page capabilities
<nephele>
better in what way?
<nephele>
like, what are the deficiencies you see in their implementation? last time i checked it was on by default, and you could also tell it to use specific lists if you want
<nipos>
The filter list URL is somewhat hardcoded.You can only customize it by editing the dconf,which looks like the Linuxified version of Windows Registry lol
<nipos>
I'd prefer an actual UI to edit filters and filter lists like uBlock Origin does it,no Registry hacks
<nephele>
Ah okay. well if it's just a UI concern...
<nephele>
Mostly i work on the webkit side of things, but there is nothing stopping a nice UI beeing written for webpositve
<nephele>
(without extensions lol, let's just add proper functionality without outsourcing it...)
<nipos>
Having WebExtensions one day wouldn't be bad in my opinion,but at least a Adblocker should be native,without an extension,considering that WebKit already has support for it integrated
<nephele>
i don't mind extensions in theory, but I am annoyed at the concept of "must-have" extensions
<nephele>
stuff like vertical tabs and adblocking should just be build in
<nipos>
Hm,besides uBlock Origin there's also LocalCDN and LibRedirect which are *really* nice to have.I mean,I can live without them too (unlike Adblockers,I never go online without the required protection) but if they were available,I'd install them in any case
<nephele>
sounds like a more general redirectionruleset functionality should be build for that
<nipos>
Yes,but then sane defaults for some services and a nice UI would be a cool bonus.
<nipos>
And LocalCDN isn't about redirecting,but serving common third-party resources like jQuery and Bootstrap from the local harddisk instead.
<nephele>
redirecting to local disk doesn't seem different to me conceptually
<nephele>
just a file: uri instead of a https: one ;)
<nipos>
You can't access file URIs from webpages because that would be a security issue.It only works in that case because the files are included in the extension,but accessing random files on the hard disk doesn't work.
<nipos>
And yeah,having these replacements from xkcd as extension would make reading news a lot more funny of course
<nephele>
sure, websites can't do that on their own. But it is still fundamentally the same concept
<nephele>
webkit can already do this by the way, if you use the safari (or gnome web... basically the same thing) inspector you can create a "local overide" for a server response
<nipos>
Ah cool,didn't know that
<nephele>
only works while the inspector is open, so not that usefull in general for you, but the groundwork for local overides is there, somewhere :P
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<Begasus[m]>
OK, new thumbdrive, same issue :'(
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: That rules out that the thumbdrive was broken...
<Begasus[m]>
right Monni
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: That leaves pretty much corrupted BIOS settings...
<Begasus[m]>
on 2 laptops?
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: That's possible... To eliminate that it would require wiping certain parts of the MBR on the hard disk...
<Begasus[m]>
not an option on this one, and other one is still needed for build checking
<Begasus[m]>
if anything goes bogus there it will be the end
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: Certain tools are known to corrupt bootloader in MBR... It does still exist when using UEFI... If the bootloader is corrupted, it might attempt legacy boot if that is allowed in BIOS settings...
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<Begasus[m]>
Neon, Debian, Kubuntu, Gparted, all those iso's put on thumbdrive boot, just not the Haiku one
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: That's because Haiku bootloader will scan all drives, not just the current one... It's too smart in that way...
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: If any of the Linux ISOs use grub, it's likely that all the boot options are hardcoded in the grub configuration, so it doesn't need to scan drives like Haiku bootloader does... It just knows which drive is hard disk and which one is the optical drive/USB device...
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<BrunoSpr>
No OpenGL renderer... which files are missing? Thanks all there!
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<Begasus[m]>
BrunoSpr only one I can think of is mesa_swrast (but that's about into a default install)
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<Begasus_32>
bash: _comp_deprecate_var: opdracht niet gevonden
<Begasus[m]>
not sure where it got this from, just updated 32bit
<Begasus[m]>
last means "command not found"
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: _comp_deprecate_var is defined in bash_completion
<Begasus[m]>
that I gathered :)
<Monni>
Begasus: For me, HaikuPorts has too old version...
<Begasus[m]>
too old version?
<Monni>
Begasus: Should be at least 2.12 for that to be defined...
<Begasus[m]>
didn't had that message before the update, so not sure why the version would be an issue now?
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: Some package depends on 2.12... Might want to check the recipes for the ones that depend on bash_completion
<Begasus[m]>
bash_completion hasn't changed
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: inrecipe bash_completion
<Begasus[m]>
cmake/lixml2/qt5/zlib/readline
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<Begasus[m]>
Monni already done :)
<Begasus[m]>
readline could be an option there
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: Then just grep the source directory for that string, assuming you have the source directory extracted...
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<Begasus[m]>
Someone will bump into it also I guess, not updating my install in VM here for now
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<n005>
hey
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: If that's specific to 32-bit version of Haiku, I shouldn't bump it to it, but if it applies also to 64-bit systems, I guess I should bump to it eventually...
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<Begasus[m]>
Monni there is already a PR for bash_completion open
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: I wasn't going to make a PR for it...
<Begasus[m]>
ok :)
<Begasus[m]>
doing dog stuff for the website :)
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: I was talking about the package that depends on bash_completion 2.12 or newer...
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<Begasus[m]>
Monni gathered that now :) let's see who comes up with a fix
<Monni>
Begasus[m]: I don't think a fix is even needed if the new bash_completion recipe gets merged...
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<Monni>
Begasus[m]: I tried installing the new bash_completion and it worked after restarting all Terminal windows...
<Peppersawce>
How many linuxes read befs out of the box? I want to know if I got lucky :)
<Peppersawce>
Also, curiosity, how wise would it be to run my Haiku install that's in a separate partition inside a VM?
<Monni>
I haven't seen binary packages for BFS FUSE module after Ubuntu 17.04, so...
<Peppersawce>
guess it's pretty common then, that's cool
<Peppersawce>
makes multibooting way better
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<nephele>
I want to try out ponkodiff, where is it? I thought this would be in haikudepot?
<nephele>
want to use it for "git show <commit>" so i can keep some references open
<nephele>
oh, it is ponpoko
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<nephele>
doesn't seem to work as a git diff viewer :(
<zard>
Yeah, I was talking about the implementation of RunLoop itself
<nephele>
hmm, but where is PlatformMouseEvent used then *confused*
<zard>
I didn't really get much a mental model for the distinction between NativeWebMouseEvent, PlatformMouseEvent, etc.
<zard>
Maybe PlatformMouseEvent is just an alias for BMessage
<nephele>
well, the code for PlatformMouseEvent extracts the buttons pressed from the message
<nephele>
so, either that was broken and never used, or there is a path that it properly gets them
<nephele>
I'm trying to figure out where the scroll(wheel) info might be added
<zard>
Hmm, where's PlatformMouseEvent?
<nephele>
WebCore/platform/haiku/
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<zard>
I wouldn't be surprised if that one is unused or only used for WebKitLegacy
<nephele>
similar stuff is used in WebProcess/WebPage/ios :)
<nephele>
but maybe that is just a port decision if we want to follow this?
<zard>
No idea. Don't you just love the enormity of WebKit?
<nephele>
Honestly, as someone who massively struggles getting such stuff started I am just happy you got it into a working state, now I am more in my element ;)
<zard>
:)
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<nephele>
Wondering if local electronics store would sell me ps/2 extensions
<nephele>
new pc is way too big to put *onto* the standing desk
<nephele>
zard: maybe i can get it to a state where it doesn't crash if you press right click
<nephele>
by the way... debug build failed again *shrug*
<nephele>
but release build works
<zard>
Slowly but surely building on my computer 1199/1991
<nephele>
it failed linking the last target
<zard>
btw, how did you stop webkitlegacy from linking?
<zard>
Ok, we'll see what happens on mine
<nephele>
I just disabled it in the build
<nephele>
want me to send you a patch?
<zard>
Was it disabling ENABLE_WEBKITLEGACY in OptionsHaiku and disabling anything that depended on it?
<nephele>
that, and I added conditional inclusion of Tools/c
<nephele>
cmake/OptionsHaiku for the DumpRenderTree and HaikuLauncher
<nephele>
(so those are disabled now too)
<zard>
Ok. Well, at least that narrows down the problem
<zard>
I personally like building HaikuLauncher from time to time to make sure WebKitLegacy is still working
<nephele>
well, i don't care for wklegacy currently, just want to make some progress on wk2
<nephele>
maybe you can add a build option that you have to specify webkitlegacy or webkit for build targets
<zard>
Eh, if you say `ninja MiniBrowser` it shouldn't compile WebKitLegacy anyway, imo
<nephele>
yes
<nephele>
but goog luck, i did not find any explicit deps
<zard>
Neither did I :shrug:
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<nephele>
-DDoWhatIWantAndFixTheBuild=ON
<phschafft>
nephele++
<nephele>
++phschafft
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<nephele>
what is .mm? objective C?
<nephele>
".mm files contain a mindmap" yeah im sure, thanks random website
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<zard>
When I researched it, I came to the conclusion that it was Objective C or related to it
<zard>
Why does it look so similar to C++ though???
<zard>
The only difference I see is #import instead of #include
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<nephele>
website sais this is "objective c++"
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* phschafft
hmmms some.
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<Begasus[m]>
Hi Oscar-L !
<OscarL>
Monni: thanks for the spellchecking :-)
<OscarL>
hello Begasus-[m]! :-P
<Begasus[m]>
told he did a nice job on my tutoring :)
<phschafft>
:)
<phschafft>
Monni++
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL in regards of the file in profile.d, I'm guessing most important change in there would be the path completion in . ?
<Monni>
OscarL: That's one thing I do just to delay merging something... But otherwise the PR really looks ready...
<Begasus[m]>
I guess it's not that widely used, only by those packaging themselves
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: cmake-gui on 64 bits failed due to some network-related hiccup. Might want to change the recipe by changing something on the description or something (to trigger a rebuild only on 64 bits).
<Begasus[m]>
jmairboeck is looking into that anyway OscarL :)
<nephele>
phschafft: humm?
<nephele>
I think before BBB runs in webkit2 some time will have to pass :P
<phschafft>
nephele: hm?
<nephele>
or jitsi
<nephele>
phschafft: surely you have good ideas how to perform a "coding stream" from Haiku ;)
<jmairboeck>
Begasus[m], OscarL: But probably not today :)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: ok, just saying because augiedoggie_ might be missing a cmake-gui package in the mean time :-)
<Begasus[m]>
np jmairboeck :)
<phschafft>
nephele: I would guess it depends on what you want to do?
<Begasus[m]>
I guess by now augiedoggie already did a package for himself? shouldn't be that hard
<nephele>
I want a "Full-hd" steam of a (a segment) of my haiku desktop
<nephele>
with audio streaming, and a way for people watching to offer questions
<gordonjcp>
nephele: I've kind of done similar
<nephele>
or a stream based on app_server drawing commands :P
<gordonjcp>
nephele: I ran Haiku in qemu with the graphics device set to be VNC
<gordonjcp>
nephele: then I set up a headless dummy X server, ran vncviewer on it, and connected that to the Haiku VM
<gordonjcp>
then I pointed ffmpeg in "grab X framebuffer" mode at the headless X server
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] OscarL f9b9df0 - bash_completion: update to version 2.14.0. (#11200)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: re: bash_completion PR. The `pkgman install` completion fix for current dir is done on the `/completions/pkgman` file. The change in profile.d/bash_completion.sh is to avoid future breakage on that package update.
<OscarL>
man, I'm slow typying :-P
<OscarL>
*typing
<Begasus>
ok OscarL, if someone passes by I'll forward them to you :)
<nephele>
gordonjcp: okay, so connect ffmpeg to haiku vm, and then?
<nephele>
or what should ffmpeg do, is it streaming directly (as a server)
<nephele>
how does audio get taken into account for that
<nephele>
... maybe I can run haiku in qemu and ask phschafft for his jitsi instance and just use that
<OscarL>
Begasus: just link them to the PR where it says what to do before installing/updating the package :-P (not my fault auto-merge doesn't works :-P)
* phschafft
nods to gordonjcp.
<phschafft>
nephele: what gordonjcp is suggesting would also kind of my idea. if I would be 'under friends' I would just share the virt-manager window.
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<phschafft>
that would also give us access to the VM controls on-stream if we need/like.
<phschafft>
naturally it's not the 'real deal' as streaming from within.
<phschafft>
but it is a pratical solution.
<phschafft>
also, if you need the jitsi, just let me or stephan know. :)
<nephele>
Started ubuntu, immidiently was annoyed at the input latency... i forgot I had it set to 30hz to check input latency
<phschafft>
If it's more than once I'm sure stephan can also provide you with a moderator login.
<OscarL>
Begasus: Python 3.13.0 PR is ready too.
<nephele>
well, first i want to try if there is even interest in such a "coding stream" for haiku
<phschafft>
nephele: if it is within my availability I would surely be interested. depending on the format my interest might be more on the content or more on the networking side of things.
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<nephele>
would anyone be interested in trying this out now? assuming i can setup qemu properly
<phschafft>
(friends, beer, and code vs. educational frontal presentation vs. ...)
<nephele>
well mostly just "working on this" and letting people interest ask question how the stuff works in our webkit ports :)
<nipos>
It's likely just another missing SetHighUIColor somewhere,but I'm not in front of a computer right now
<nephele>
Clearly you are when sending this message ;)
<nipos>
Depends if you count laptops and smartphones
<nephele>
definetely
<nephele>
I'm even counting your washing machine
<nipos>
Laptops should probably be counted,but this one,running FreeBSD,is just for chatting when I'm laying in bed in front of the TV :P
<nephele>
my previous desktop OS was FreeBSD
<nipos>
My TV channel choice today: nepheles dev livestream :D
<nephele>
hehe
<nipos>
FreeBSD isn't bad.I'm using it on all of my servers.On laptops and computers I usually prefer Haiku,but well,drivers...On FreeBSD everything except wifi works and with an USB dongle it's working good enough
<nipos>
If I remember right,on Haiku neither the touchpad nor the touchscreen worked,and working with only a keyboard on a graphical desktop OS isn't that much fun
<nipos>
I'm now in your channel.Is there anything to see or hear right now?
<nephele>
yes
<nipos>
Fine,it doesn't work
<nephele>
i'm speaking ocasionally and there is also a full-hd stream of my desktop
<nipos>
Black screen and no audio
<nipos>
I can see the chat,but my own messages aren't sent it seems
<nipos>
Oh ok,it only took some time
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<OscarL>
repos still on r1~beta5_hrev58209. Guess I'll test 58221 tomorrow.
<waddlesplash>
yeah, it didn't build the right thing. hm
<OscarL>
build times looked a bit short on concourse (compared to previous ones) too.
<Begasus>
closing down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<scanty>
having problems on beta5, last software update was yesterday. in any case, the Desktop does not start-- you have to do it manually with ctrl+alt+del, at this point you have about 3-5 minutes to do anything, before things go south. Deskbar will eventually freeze, and Tracker eventually stops working as well. can't open files, at this point. any onscreen window can be moved and the cursor works as expected
<nephele>
hey scanty, did this only happen after an update?
<scanty>
yes, it stared i think 2 updates ago.
<scanty>
started*
<Skipp_OSX>
it's almost certainly the mount server getting stuck
<Skipp_OSX>
Deskbar and Tracker both implement Mount Server in the Window thread so if you have a stuck mount they will both become unresponsive trying to mount whatever they are getting hung up on.
<nephele>
scanty: can you (in the bootloader) load an earlier state and identify which version started this behaviour?
<Skipp_OSX>
try restarting the Mount Server see if that helps scanty
<scanty>
ok, brb
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<scanty>
hi... still same problems.
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<Skipp_OSX>
darn
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<scanty>
yeah, i have no idea what it could be.
<scanty>
still don't understand why desktop doesn't start.
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<scanty>
should i do a proper bug report?
<OscarL>
scanty: problem persists even when booting an earlier state?
<scanty>
I don't have earlier states
<OscarL>
:-/
<nephele>
you deleted them?
<scanty>
no, i never knew i was installing them?
<nephele>
then you have them
<nephele>
each installation creates a previous state which you can boot independently
<scanty>
hrm, okay.
<nephele>
so you can boot your system like it was before the installation of your new package
<scanty>
let me reboot then and see.
<waddlesplash>
if you haven't cleared your old states in a while they are probably taking up a lot of disk space
<waddlesplash>
FilWip does take care of this though
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<scantysnax>
okay, got a state working that's beta4. going to investigate beta5 later, ans zero in on the culprit. thanks for the tips.
<scantysnax>
and*
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<nephele>
old states only take up significant states if you have a lot of stuff installed, especially if that updates regularily
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