<OscarL>
s/least/last/, I guess? Proves my point abouy my terrible "English" at least :-P
<Skipp_OSX>
heyo OscarL can you retest my patch?
<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: Hi, I'll do a new build from your latest 8374 as soon as temps lower a bit later this night. Proper testing will have to wait till at least tomorrow.
<Skipp_OSX>
ok
<Skipp_OSX>
sorry I got too excited.
<OscarL>
no problem! :-) just saw your message on gerrit and I'm a slow typist :-) Thanks for your work!
<Skipp_OSX>
I think the RepopulateMenus() is the cause... I took that out on my Shortcuts patch and you said Desktop
<Skipp_OSX>
I don't think we need it anymore but... well my shortcuts patch does a lot so I'm not sure...
<OscarL>
yeah. latest issue I had was definitively on desktop, and not on the folder I was doing most of my tests before.
<Skipp_OSX>
We're probably repop on Desktop for Mount Menu so yeah, we need it for now but fixed on Shortcuts patch
<Skipp_OSX>
anyway, I think it won't crash on Desktop now.
<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: as you had said before that you had problems reproducing the issue... may I suggest running a VM, with 4 cores, but severly limited in speed?
AlaskanEmily3 has joined #haiku
<Skipp_OSX>
hmmmmm yeah I could try that
<OscarL>
like... run it in "eco" mode (for me its a about 1.3 GHz at lowest, after a 500 overclock, lol!), or limit the CPU percentage the VM is allowed to use.
<OscarL>
*500 MHz.
<OscarL>
4 cores, but too slow... might explain why I get so many "racy" issues?
gordonjcp has joined #haiku
gordonjcp is now known as Guest5060
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
* OscarL
should block any news about mini PCs with modern AMDs APUs. They just makes him want to cry whenever he compares them to his Phenom.
<OscarL>
off for today. Will report back tomorrow Skipp_OSX (sorry for the delay).
<OscarL>
See you folks!
OscarL has quit [Quit: Gone with the wind]
nipos has joined #haiku
Peppersawce has quit [Quit: Chat-O-Matic[0.1]: i've been liquified!]
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
crmsnbleyd has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
crmsnbleyd has joined #haiku
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mmu_man has joined #haiku
sri has joined #haiku
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
OscarL has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: still up?
linuxmaster has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
Tried patchset 8374/4, was feeling pretty good (far less weirdness with menues poping up far away from current cursor position), but in the end, got a crash. Good news (?), this one is not the usual "getNumAvailable == 0", but a straight Segment Violation.
bbjimmy has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Skipp_OSX>
but that's on RepopulateMenus()...
<OscarL>
took the patch via this: git fetch https://review.haiku-os.org/haiku refs/changes/74/8374/4 && git checkout -b change-8374 FETCH_HEAD
<Skipp_OSX>
In order to fix _that_ bug I'd need to include more changes from Shortcuts refactor... specifically the ones around RepopulateMenus(), ug
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah 4 is right
Skipp_OSX_ has joined #haiku
Skipp_OSX has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
hit refresh on gerrit, get suddenly blinded before it switches back to dark theme :-/
SLema has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
SLema has joined #haiku
<Skipp_OSX_>
Gerrit is a bit annoying not showing you latest revision until you refresh
Skipp_OSX_ is now known as Skipp_OSX
<OscarL>
The worst part of that "here's a wall of white light for you before we show you the actual content!" that gerrit does... is that it is one of those sites where I'm actually trying to pay attention, so my eyes are wide-open. The betrayal hits hard :-)
erysdren has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
SLema has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
SLema has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
<Skipp_OSX>
its all coming back now
dr_nil has joined #haiku
ablyss has joined #haiku
<ablyss>
omh, they're playing BeOS Taco on Mac Radio again
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<jezek2>
OscarL: try calibrating your display, use lower brightness, apply gamma correction to not have too hard contrast between darks and brights (the best way to tune the gamma correction is to use antialiased text where both white-on-black and black-on-white should have the same apparent thickness)
<jezek2>
the end result should be that looking into white should be as comfortable as looking into black
<jezek2>
even when the room is in total dark
Begasus has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
jezek2: Appreciate the suggestions... but none of that will help with dumb gerrit flashing a white full screen at you before rendering the actual content for no good reason. I already use my monitor at the lowest brightness possible :-)
<Begasus>
morning peeps
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL
<OscarL>
Good day Begasus!
<jezek2>
I go below lowest brigthness by lowering contrast and/or lowering brightness/contrast in the video settings
<jezek2>
I just find it quite sad that many people are looking into too bright monitors based on the comments and remarks all over the internet, but not unable to tell the people it is fixable
<jezek2>
some use dark mode but while some may like it, most of the time it is used as a bandaid for this issue imho
<jezek2>
*but unable
<jezek2>
(and personally I'm using both white and black backgrounds and switch rapidly between them without any issues, eg. GUI stuff vs terminal stuff)
<OscarL>
I can deal with (low brightness) light themes, or darker ones, no problem. But having websites/apps just throwing a "flashbang" granade at you unexpectedly, for no gppd reason... just. not. cool. man.
<OscarL>
Begasus: Python 3.13 release got delayed at least a week for some reason. Just when I was ready to get a "same day delivery" Python package this time :-) (when it actually releases now... I'd probably miss it again for a few days :-D)
<Begasus>
waiting ... :P
<Begasus>
anyway, lazarus still OK here
<OscarL>
Ah, saw that topic on the forum. Knew it would have you testing things up there again.
<Begasus>
one of my little projects ;)
freddietilley has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
our definition of "little" is a bit different I see :-P (glad you're willing to tackle those Begasus!)
<Begasus>
well, it's not like it's updated that much :)
<OscarL>
you wrote that you "get an error on first run"... can you paste the full error? I can't promise anything, but 4 eyes better than 2...
<OscarL>
guess it is not that important if it runs OK on subsequent runs.
<Begasus>
sec :)
<OscarL>
no hurries. just in case I *might* spot something.
<Begasus>
maybe should move that lazarus bin also, but not now
Viking667 has joined #haiku
<Viking667>
Good morftervening all.
<Viking667>
Is that the same lazarus that's the IDE for free pascal?
<OscarL>
yep.
<Viking667>
And now you're wondering "How did he know we were talking about that..."?
<Viking667>
(as in, I'm not connected to any other #haiku channel on any other network at the moment)
<Begasus>
well, there are still the logs (or just checking the forum)? :)
<Viking667>
logs. It has a setting for live updating.
<Begasus>
yeah :)
<Viking667>
It's evening here (19:53 on Tuesday).
<Begasus>
OscarL, need to grab cudaup.sh first
<OscarL>
(only one lazarus that I know of, related to software, at least)
<Viking667>
so I'm ahead of practically everyone else in the world.
<Viking667>
Yah, that's the only one of two that's programming-related.
<OscarL>
Begasus: don't worry then. Just hit me up if you get it again, or send it by email.
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
<OscarL>
I still haven't even tried it locally, but with any luck... I might remember enough from my Delphi (and BePascal/FPC) days to notice something.
<phschafft>
And a very good morning to all of you!
<Viking667>
the other one seems to be a devops for security environment
<OscarL>
gppd day phschafft :-)
<Begasus>
k, grabbing cudatext sources
<Begasus>
morning phschafft
<Viking667>
in short, AI-directed automated security tools. That's the only other mention I've seen.
<janking>
good morning
<Begasus>
morning janking
<phschafft>
all good for all of you?
<OscarL>
phschafft: a bit mixed, but listening to some old Weird Al songs made it a bit better at least, so... can't really complain. :-)
<phschafft>
:)
crmsnbleyd has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
<OscarL>
phschafft: but we do like our "Pan dulce de Navidad" (sweet bread, usually with nuts, or glassed fruits, or... grasp! rasins?!?! savages...)
<phschafft>
OscarL: so what do you eat with your hot chocolate on christmas?
<phschafft>
ah.
<OscarL>
phschafft: Christmas down here is almost peak summer, no one is going for some hot cocoa cup :-)
<OscarL>
"Fruit salads" thou... yes, I'll take 5 Kg for myself, thank you!
<phschafft>
OscarL: any exactly that is why I'm asking. fun to hear about it.
<phschafft>
I got some new christmas cookie cutters yesterday. but when I use those special tools for other products that always feels very strange to me. even if they have a very universal design (like a flower).
<OscarL>
Begasus: "(debugging...)" on the title bar this time. Might be trying to execute the app before it finishes linking or something the first time (just a wild guess). Anyway... not a show-stopper at least :-)
<Begasus>
right, that why I added 'not prio' :)
<OscarL>
phschafft: really weird being a kid, watching movies about snow in christmas... WAT?!?!?! :-P
sri has left #haiku [Leaving]
<phschafft>
OscarL: we used to have here. but with the climate catastrophe snow is a thing of the past over here.
<Viking667>
here, they don't have Christmas cookies. We have fruit mince pies, however.
dr_nil has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Viking667>
And it's barbecue weather on December 25th.
<Viking667>
Snow here happens in ... June/July/August.
<OscarL>
phschafft: yeah :-(. 39 C today here, last day of September... not sure I'll make it till the end of summer :-/
<phschafft>
about ten years ago we still had up to half a meter of snow in a night. now it's at least 15°C constantly outside.
<Viking667>
whoa. That's getting hot.
<Viking667>
We had 36C here one year, I was walking out in it. I stopped a lot of times - and I'm grateful I had brought water with me.
<phschafft>
OscarL: sounds like time for a swim. ;)
<Viking667>
pfft. Can't compose chars at the moment.
<OscarL>
phschafft: too bad I'm on an arid province... We "joke" that we only dirt rains here. :-) At least it is dry heat, I guess :-D
<OscarL>
*we only get
<OscarL>
real problem down here is when heat doesn't goes down below 30C even at night for a couple of weeks :-/
<phschafft>
OscarL: so you're more in the middle, not so close to the sea?
<OscarL>
(I have a close friend living in Auckland)
<phschafft>
OscarL: let's say the first picture in on that wikipedia page in the info box already tells a lot. ;)
<OscarL>
indeed :-)
<Viking667>
OscarL: yah. Not quite so close to the ocean/sea as Auckland though. I'm the furthest away from a coast I've ever lived. Feels strange. I can't fathom how there's 'Muricans that have never been to the beach.
<OscarL>
I'm currently about 1000 Km away from the coast (unless I cheat and go "the other way", through Chile, into the Pacific). I was born in a maritime port city, so yeah... can understand the weird feeling of not even being able to smell the see.
<OscarL>
s/see/sea/
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto has joined #haiku
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Viking667>
heh. here, it's only 100 km away, but it's still further away than I can walk.
<OscarL>
(not the same but... you can run shell commands and get their output in Pe windows).
<OscarL>
Properly integrating Terminal into Pe... would better be handled by having a Terminal replicant, I think.
<OscarL>
Way about my skill level, sadly :-)
<Begasus>
it's pretty handy though, no switching app/Desktop
<Begasus>
not that I use it always, just checked it :)
<OscarL>
Proper Terminal replicant... with proper scripting suites... could be reused not only by Pe, but for any app wanting an embedded terminal widget.
<Begasus>
right
<Begasus>
konsole works the same in Dolpin etc also
<Viking667>
Would be nice. We don't have replicants over in any other OS I use on a regular basis.
<OscarL>
a BTerminalView API wouldn't be so bad to have too. Maybe something for phschafft to chime in :-)
<Viking667>
Closest concept to that would have been the "Copy" operation in Smalltalk (esp. Sqeak/etc)
* phschafft
quickly gets up a random tree.
<Begasus>
too late
<OscarL>
phschafft: AVL, red-black, or what?
* Viking667
spraycans the tree with a bright orange can
<Begasus>
phschafft going Dutch now? :P
<Viking667>
jkkqk
<Viking667>
arrrk. Cat number 2 hit keyboard.
<Viking667>
Cat nr 3 is supposed to be eating dinner, but is too busy elsewhere.
<phschafft>
OscarL: haha.
<phschafft>
I'm more a ginkgo and red wood type however.
<Viking667>
and nr 1 is in the wardrobe, refusing to eat his disgusting tea.
<phschafft>
I mean ginkgo is clearly the best of both words ;)
<Viking667>
?
<phschafft>
A ginkgo is halfway between conifer and broadleaf.
<phschafft>
it features interconnected needles.
<OscarL>
beats the hell of trying to climb a cactus.
<phschafft>
also eatable fruits.
illwieckz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phschafft>
and red wood is 'cuddle tree' as the outer most layer is of a soft material that the tree uses as a fire protection.
<phschafft>
resulting in them so soft you can normally push in nearly a cm.
illwieckz has joined #haiku
illwieckz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Viking668 has joined #haiku
illwieckz has joined #haiku
<Viking668>
phew. So at least the name was correct on joining. And no "drop dead into the debugger" this time.
illwieckz has quit [Quit: I'll be back!]
illwieckz has joined #haiku
OscarL has quit [Quit: Gone with the wind]
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
illwieckz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
illwieckz has joined #haiku
ablyss has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
_justin_kelly9759 has quit []
_justin_kelly9759 has joined #haiku
ablyss has joined #haiku
<Viking667>
Okay, I'll head off again - busy re-teaching myself coding.
<Viking668>
uhm... Yeah. Me too.
Viking668 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
Viking667 has quit [Quit: *+++ATH0]
mmu_man has joined #haiku
Halian has quit [Quit: I'll be back.]
augiedoggie_ has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
ablyss has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
ablyss has joined #haiku
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
Peppersawce has joined #haiku
ablyss has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Halian has joined #haiku
ablyss has joined #haiku
Jixt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Monni>
plop
<Begasus>
that's mmu_man's line! :P
_-Caleb-_ has left #haiku [#haiku]
<Monni>
Begasus: Yup...
<Monni>
Begasus: Going through packages in HaikuPorts to see if I can find broken recipes... Already found one ;)
<Begasus>
I think there could be some mentions in the issue tracker there Monni?
<Begasus>
probably more to be found :)
ablyss has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Monni>
Begasus: I started with the ones I use on other operating systems... I might go through the issue tracker later...
_-Caleb-_ has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
+1 Monni thanks
<Monni>
Begasus: The one I found already had incorrect include directory in CMake target files... But there might be other issues I can fix as long as some other package depends on the broken recipe...
<Begasus>
no fun watching plasmatube in the VM :/
tuaris has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<Begasus>
think yt_dlp_python* should require yt_dlp also?
<Begasus>
OscarL! where are you? :P
<Peppersawce>
In my experience I found most recipes from 2022 or earlier are broken in some way or another
ablyss has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
Hi Peppersawce
<Peppersawce>
You could check the haikuporter issues for broken packages too
<Peppersawce>
Hi begasus :D
<Peppersawce>
If I could suggest a package to work on it'd be ScummVM
<Peppersawce>
Some people say it saves stuff in home, but for me it crashes while trying to save stuff
<Peppersawce>
Probably a paths issue, but the cool thing is that ScummVM officially supports Haiku so they should be willing to upstream Haiku patches
<Peppersawce>
So if it's fixed once it can stay fixed :)
<Begasus>
got the games saved on another partition I can't access atm, so can't really check there
<Begasus>
wouldn't be the first patch ending up there Peppersawce :)
<Peppersawce>
I can imagine :D
<Peppersawce>
But it's a good thing, scummvm is massive
<Peppersawce>
The more support Haiku gets from big projects like that the better
<Begasus>
_sev saved my day back then for hash* thing back then :)
<Peppersawce>
:)
rexbinary_ has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
aside a few version I think I've been keeping up for almost 20 years on that, same for TuxPaint
rexbinary has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rexbinary_ is now known as rexbinary
<Peppersawce>
I already used it a lot for LucasArts games but now they've got Nuvie (Ultima VI source port) in their code as well
<Peppersawce>
And I love that game so I'm glad Haiku is a target platform :D
<Begasus>
with ResidualVM integrated it also supports some like Mist
<Peppersawce>
Yeah, it's totally massive now
<Peppersawce>
Imagine a future where mame, libretro and scummvm merge
<Begasus>
still remember when I created a package for that one, the ResidualVM guy didn't have nice words on it :P
<Peppersawce>
Hehe, well, it's free software :)
<Peppersawce>
His fault for giving his code away lmao
<Begasus>
right, and we were already doing ScummVM packages for years by then
<Begasus>
didn't go without a strugle (integration) :P
<Peppersawce>
I can imagine, even if it's an SDL app it's so huge it's bound to have issues
<Begasus>
iirc the main dev for it stepped away after that
<Begasus>
the strugle wasn't importing the code :P
<Begasus>
importing that went pretty smooth
<Peppersawce>
Tbh ResidualVM didn't ever feel like a project with a lot of traction, I'm glad they got incorporated into ScummVM, I'm sure it's better maintained now
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
heh, didn't even knew it untill my eye fell on it at the website :D
<Peppersawce>
same ngl
Begasus_32 has joined #haiku
Anarchos has joined #haiku
<Monni>
I've seen some projects that never got a lot of traction, but their code was borrowed to other projects, so the time spent wasn't completely wasted... Some projects only live to contribute bits and pieces to other projects...
<Anarchos>
Monni: examples ?
<Begasus>
or projects taking different directions radare2/rizin ...
<Monni>
Begasus: Exactly...
<Begasus>
code there wasn't "borowed" 2 main devs taking different directions :)
<Begasus>
well 1 * :)
andreaa71 has joined #haiku
<andreaa71>
hullo
<Begasus>
hi andreaa71!
<andreaa71>
hi Begasus
<Monni>
The company I work with currently had two different owners before I bought minority share... I own about 45% currently... They completely ruined the reputation of the previous name, so twice rebranded...
<andreaa71>
Is the name BeShare becoming HaikuShare?
<Monni>
I don't think so as long as Jeremy Friesner lives...
<andreaa71>
ok, np ...
<andreaa71>
it was for consistency, but ok, np
<Monni>
Renaming something that has existed for decades just for consistency doesn't really make much sense...
<andreaa71>
to do better for newcomers ... but really ok, you are free !!!
<andreaa71>
it was in imho ...
<Monni>
Most of us don't use BeShare anymore... So there is nothing for newcomers... Some old timers still use it once in a while...
<andreaa71>
using also aMule ?
<Monni>
BeShare was good for sharing files between BeOS users when there was no single central place besides BeBits to download anything.... BeBits wasn't the right place for everything...
<andreaa71>
i will pray ... a pray ...
<Begasus>
I think more things went around in BeShare then on BeBits Monni :)
<andreaa71>
thank you and see you ...
<Begasus>
cu andreaa71
<andreaa71>
;)
andreaa71 has left #haiku [#haiku]
<Monni>
Begasus: There was BeShare-compatible clients for other operating systems, so everything wasn't about BeOS... It was sharing videos and other files too...
<Begasus>
yeah ... lost that name now ... bugger
<Monni>
Begasus: When Qt 4.8 got phased out, I stopped updating Unizone...
<Begasus>
ah, that one :)
<Monni>
Begasus: Doesn't run on Windows 10 or 11... Would have required complete rewrite, so no worth keeping it around...
<Begasus>
not much going on at BeShare too I guess, haven't stepped in there for a while, it's still active though, and has a bridge to IRC now
<Begasus>
but I could be wrong :)
<Monni>
Begasus: I check it once in a while... Only few users online on some of the servers I know about...
<Monni>
Begasus: TyCom Systems server isn't the "primary" server anymore... Most of the time it has no users online...
<Begasus>
no idea Monni, as mentioned, long time ago :)
<Monni>
Begasus: I still have BeShare on my latest Haiku VM... And I nudge Jeremy to keep Atrus and the other stuff up-to-date...
<Monni>
Yup... Wasn't there last time I checked, but that was a while ago ;)
<Begasus>
We are happy to announce the release of Qt Creator 14.0.2!
<Begasus>
too bad I, not going to check a build for that in VM
<Anarchos>
Begasus: i finally saved my hdd ;)
<nephele>
I'm wondering why there are no computercooling systems that us Oil *in curculation*. I'm seeing ones that have it submerged, which is cool. but seems really impractical
<Monni>
oil likes to foam when circulating...
<Begasus>
nice Anarchos! :)
<Anarchos>
nephele: it is cheaper to use an existing motherboard and put it in oil than design your own motherboard with oil circulation.
<Monni>
temperature change cause condensation water and oil to mix and that causes the foaming...
<nephele>
why would you add water to an oil system Monni?
<Monni>
nephele: you need to add the oil when all surfaces are hot, when the oil cools down, the surfaces attract condensation...
<nephele>
In a closed system without air there is nothing to condensate
<ablyss>
o,0
<Monni>
nephele: you will always need heat exchanger and that can't be filled 100% or it will have no room for expansion when temperature changes...
<ablyss>
luv my x'
<Monni>
In most cases you can only fill up to maximum of 90% of the internal volume, leaving 10% for expansion...
<ablyss>
wah lamd 2
<nephele>
Monni: can't you use a membrane to account for expansion like in a water based heating system?
<Monni>
nephele: that would weaken eventually... some materials don't like oil, alcohol or acetone...
<nephele>
Well, yes, it depends on what material you use :)
<ablyss>
mio cada peee casa
<ablyss>
pg- luckeee 13
<Monni>
nephele: it would also need to be able to withstand a lot of pressure... 2 bars is quite normal with oil circulation, but pressure can go a lot higher...
<nephele>
I'm also curious what kind of throughput one would need, since the capacity is quite a bit lower than water for heat
<ablyss>
Miss Jemkins ~ send a whirely bird to mio favorate x, weee need to go to dandy land
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Monni>
We used to use oil circulation here a lot before all the refridgerants started to be safe to use... The volume/minute isn't that high....
<ablyss>
the behive ya dum dum
<Anarchos>
ablyss: ???
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
rexbinary_ has joined #haiku
rexbinary has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rexbinary_ is now known as rexbinary
<Monni>
nephele: You can get sub-zero temperatures with oil circulation pretty easily... I managed to get below 0 during summer... It used air on other side and oil on otherside of the heat exchanger...
<nephele>
how do you achieve that with ambient temperatures over that limit? did that also use a seperate vaporization cooling?
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as Jixt
MisthaLu has joined #haiku
<Monni>
nephele: No tricks, just normal air flow...
<nephele>
what do you mean by tricks? I'm confused by your statement in the sense of how you achieve this in physics, if the air is above 0 degree, and there is no chemical reaction or change of states, how do you get a lower temperature than both your to-be-cooled oil and your air?
nephele_xmpp has left #haiku [#haiku]
nephele_xmpp has joined #haiku
nephele_xmpp has left #haiku [#haiku]
zard has joined #haiku
<Monni>
nephele: Pressure change... it acts like compressor even though there is not one...
<nephele>
how does that work? does pressure change on it's own (without condensation or vaporization) affect the temperature directly?
<Monni>
nephele: I don't know all the details, it's been about 25 years since I saw it working...
nephele_xmpp has joined #haiku
<nephele>
alright :) Just happy to learn more about such things
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<Monni>
nephele: If I had to guess, there would be condensation due to the air flow... Air always has some humidity, unlike bottled oxygen...
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 2de2394 - tellico, bump version (#11179)
<Begasus>
hi san2ban
<Begasus>
hi tzuMi, the Zumi ? ;)
DKnoto has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
coolcoder613_beos has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<tzuMi>
yes, that one, the other nick seems taken already :))
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Begasus>
not seeing you that often in the channel, hence the asking :)
<san2ban>
Begasus, I wonder how the users do the desktop screenshots that are published on the forums...any hint for me?
<nephele>
san2ban: press the printscreen button :)
<nephele>
or, failing that run "Screenshot" from the terminal
<tzuMi>
yep, I had a problem and the guys from the ithug suggested to ask here, there are any file recover for bfs?
<san2ban>
nephele...beautifying it or organizing it...i know about the screenshot
<tzuMi>
i tried with system's recover, but I had "*** Checking Disk Structure Integrity... Not getting name because node is invalid Not getting name because node is invalid recover: ../haiku-git/src/system/libroot/posix/malloc/hoard2/superblock.h:274:int BPrivate::superblock::isValid(): _sizeClass >= 0 Kill Thread
<san2ban>
I wonder if all the users listed beside are real or some spambots up to nothing..
DKnoto has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
lot's of lurkers around san2ban :)
<Monni>
Gotta have some sleepers... it would be so noisy if all were talking 24/7...
<Begasus>
with OscarL sleep schedule we're covered :P
<nephele>
considering we "just" moved to oftc :P
<Begasus>
lol nephele, maybe they just cp'd the list :D
<Monni>
Begasus: Sleepers are spambots that wait for right moment to write non-sense... To avoid getting kicked out immediately after joining...
<Begasus>
me better silense then :P
<nephele>
sometimes rejecting users in the forum becomes quite annoying
<Monni>
nephele: On my own forum, 100% of new users are spammers... No single normal user in 4 years...
<san2ban>
Begasus, nephele, any help wrt beautifying, organizing my desktop? suggestions? hint?
<Begasus>
san2ban, it's a personal thing, current one here is sober, nothing fancy (still) :)
<Begasus>
but for starters you could add some replicants
<nephele>
san2ban: It depends on what you want? I use a wallpaper, and colors that I like
<Begasus>
nice background to your liking ...
<nephele>
don't do much more for my setup
<nephele>
Monni: well, most people on haikus forum aren't spammers
<san2ban>
Begasus, the way they show it, will it always come up organized that way, I mean the applications, weather, etc..
<nephele>
but then you get 3 days after another with a new users posting immidiently how one would call customer support for some random company, with phone number and everything
<Begasus>
those can be dragged to any position san2ban
<Monni>
nephele: A lot of forums use block lists and other features to lower down the spam accounts before they even manage to register an account...
<nephele>
luckily the forum filters that quite well on it's own, it figures that someone filling out their profile before a post might be a spammer, and someone writing a new post incredibly fast might be too
<nephele>
... it only marks it for manual review though, it does not block. which is very nice as far as heuristics go, sometimes it is just wrong too
<Monni>
nephele: Usually some forums only allow replying to existing threads first, before allowing creating new threads... And even then, all comments are manually curated until certain number of accepted comments or account age...
<san2ban>
Begasus, that means they will take screenshot after manually placing whatever they want, wherever they want. Correct? there is no program to organize what should be displayed where on the desktop. Correct?
<nephele>
also the "delete user <and ip ban>" option beeing so prominent annoys me to no end, ip bans are a bad idea
<Begasus>
right san2ban, no magic there :)
<nephele>
san2ban: pretty much yeah
tuaris has joined #haiku
<nephele>
There is nothing stopping one from writing a programm like that however
<Begasus>
as long as no one is forcing me to use it nephele :P
<san2ban>
Begasus..thank you for confirming...I thought I was missing out on something..
<Monni>
nephele: My perosnal and work IP is banned in a lot of places due to belonging to net that is used to spamming or posting non-sense...
<nephele>
Begasus: i just don't want to accidentally press that
<Begasus>
heh
<nephele>
Monni: I'm banned from this IRC channel like 2 or 3 days each month
<nephele>
*shrug*
<nephele>
based on a rotating IP adress
<Monni>
nephele: I'm banned in even some DNS servers... Have to run my own DNS server ;)
<nephele>
Haiku should get some better ipv6 support
<Monni>
IPv6 is barely supported even on Linux... I have to manually configure it...
<Monni>
Kinda hilarious as Linux kernel has been using IPv6 only for a while... IPv4 traffic is tunneled...
<Monni>
Only few months ago my router got IPv6 support... Before that only tunneled connections worked...
bbjimmy has joined #haiku
<jezek2>
IPv6 was nice in the 3ffe prefix, had fun times 20 years ago :D
<nephele>
Huh? I'm using ipv6 on linux and freebsd, and all without manually having to configure it
<Monni>
I've used IPv6 since support was added to Windows... cloud-init on Ubuntu doesn't like IPv6 so I uninstall cloud-init when I don't need static IP...
<jezek2>
I even managed to make windows 98 to use IPv6 by some special network driver :D
<nephele>
also, Haiku "in theory" supports ipv6 if you manually configure it ;)
<nephele>
but that is just not practical for a desktop OS aimed at casual users
<Begasus>
cleaning wesnoth and on for a rebuild ...
mmu_man has joined #haiku
freddietilley has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.2]
deneel has quit [Quit: deneel]
<Monni>
I can use IPv6 to ping my Windows machine from Haiku, but can't ping internet websites ;)
bbjimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Monni>
So anything with fe80::/64 address works, but others don't...
<dovsienko>
as far as I can see, my installation of Haiku does not support IPv6 autoconfig and does not assign even fe80::, which may have to do with the ability to implement more that address per AF per interface
<dovsienko>
yet another space for improvement, perhaps not entirely irrelevant, but certainly not a critical priority
<dovsienko>
implementing an IPv6 network stack is not a trivial undertaking
<dovsienko>
(even if host-only)
<dovsienko>
I have been running Linux and other OSes dual-stack and IPv6-only for quite a while, and I do not agree that on Linux IPv6 barely works
<dovsienko>
but of course you can make your point directly to linux-netdev if you want, otherwise there is no point in complaining about it here
<dovsienko>
try fixing a bug in Haiku if you can. if you cannot, try making or improving a bug report to make it easy to fix for someone who can. if you cannot do that, try improving the documentation
<nephele>
dovsienko: documentation :D
<Monni>
dovsienko: I did manually assign random IPv6 address and filled up netmask and broadcast address...
nephele_xmpp has left #haiku [#haiku]
* nephele
wonders when humdinger will be around
deneel has joined #haiku
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
talos6 has joined #haiku
<Begasus_32>
not that much nephele
nosycat has joined #haiku
talos has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
talos6 is now known as talos
<nipos>
https://xref.landonf.org/source/xref/haiku/ has been down for some days.Does anyone know a good alternative?Was really helpful to find stuff within the Haiku source
Begas_ has joined #haiku
<Begas_>
ok, this still works :)
Begas_ has quit []
Anarchos has quit [Quit: Page closed]
<Monni>
Begasus multiplies like Easter bunnies...
<Begasus_32>
nothing new there Monni :)
Begasus has joined #haiku
<Monni>
Begasus: Maybe I need to fire up Vision and see myself multiply like Easter bunnies too...
<Begasus>
what client are you using now then Monni?
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
running Nheko on Windows, Vision here and on the 32bit one
<Monni>
Begasus: Thunderbird and Element
HaikuUser is now known as MonniTheKitten
<Begasus>
was just checking out chat-o-matic, can't remember my xmpp login to check that one in there :)
<Begasus>
that's no bunny :P
FreeFull has quit []
<Monni>
Begasus: It's not Easter either... And my kittens announced themselves on April Fool's Day, not Easter ;)
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
looks like we'll be having haloween pups :O
<Monni>
Begasus: No pups here yet... Just one crazy dog...
<Begasus>
only 1? :D
<Monni>
Begasus: 2 cats, one dog... Need one more dog for Easter ;)
<Begasus>
last one we "bought" came from Poland, lovely dog, real Husky with the big finger! :D
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Monni>
Begasus: We got our dog from island in North-West Finland... likes moonwalk like Michael Jackson...
<Begasus>
heh
<Monni>
Begasus: Was fun to see dog that walks tail first...
<Begasus>
got word this morning that one of the pups we rehomed died yesterday :'(
<Begasus>
lived here for about 2 years and then moved with his owners ans his sister to the states
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser is now known as janking
<Begasus>
janking, you know you can set your nickname in Visions prefs yes? :)
<janking>
no but i shall try that
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has left #haiku [#haiku]
janking has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
janking has joined #haiku
<janking>
is it working?
<janking>
yes it is
<Monni>
Begasus: A long time ago my family did live in Zagan, Poland after leaving Latvia...
zdykstra has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.1]
zdykstra has joined #haiku
san2ban has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
tzuMi has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
FreeFull has joined #haiku
Monni has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<nipos>
That doesn't provide full-text search for the source,it only searches the commit log (or I'm blind)
Begasus_32 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Skipp_OSX>
oh right, no, just the log messages
<nipos>
I mean,I can also use "mc" to search my local repository (and did so today),but usually my workflow is having documentation and additional information on another computer,organized in a mess of dozens of LibreWolf tabs where I can always go back to if I forget something
<dovsienko>
nipos: "git grep" would be better than grep or mc search because it excludes git internal files from the results
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: the other service lets you search for symbols directly
<nephele>
which is neat if you are not near a computer
<nephele>
dovsienko: ripgrep would be even faster :D
<nipos>
There are endless ways of doing search,but my preferred way is OpenGrok in a browser on another computer so I can keep it open while coding
<nephele>
(and also excludes .git and files mentioned in .gitignore per default)
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I get it, now I understand why people are still using landon's page even though the project rejected his very nice fatelf patch.
<nephele>
but we also have TextSearch
<Skipp_OSX>
I guess the page is down now though, too bad.
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah ok cool, so we have an OpenGrok alternative.
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: curious, what would you use fat elf for in the context of haiku? was the idea to have 32bit and 64bit intel in the same one?
<Skipp_OSX>
Yeah something like that, 32-bit and 64-bit binaries together in one binary, or Arm or RISCV later on someday maybe hopefully
<nipos>
Isn't that a huge waste of disk space?
<Skipp_OSX>
well, it's a small waste of disk space, sure.
<nephele>
Well, depends. only executable code would need to be duplicated. Nothing from the data
<Skipp_OSX>
right, so the resources are shared
<nephele>
(if engineered directly)
<Skipp_OSX>
but yes, 2 binaries are going to be bigger than one, for sure.
<nipos>
If I run x86_64 Haiku,I only need x86_64 binaries and not x86,arm,arm64,risc-v and whatever
<nephele>
nipos: not quite right though
<nephele>
see, if you use something like haikuports it does not matter
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah it's more about transitioning architectures at some vague point in the future in R2 land theoretically.
<nephele>
but if you distribute binaries over the web this is hugely relevant. most users don't know what the fuck an architecture is
<Skipp_OSX>
It makes it easier like how Apple did for PPC=>x86_64 and x86_64=>Arm
<nephele>
and now with ARM computers becoming more prevalent :D
<Skipp_OSX>
Well, the project leaders basically told him we will handle that in package manager so we don't need fatelf, which I guess is true.
<Skipp_OSX>
32-bit binaries wouldn't work on 64-bit right now anyway since we don't have the 32-bit libraries installed and haven't done the work to make multiple libraries work simultaneously.
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: huh? how so? you can install packages in a seperate prefix, no?
<nipos>
Sure having to know the architecture may be an additional difficulty,but if I think having to download LibreWolf or a similarly big application 5 times (x86_64, x86, arm, arm64, risc-v) that would mean about a half gigabyte.Well no,I'd rather go look if there's that nice Intel Inside sticker on my PC and choose x86_64 then :D
<nephele>
that doesn't make 32bit libs work, but multiple libraries simultaniously should work
<Skipp_OSX>
the packages are not the problem, it's the libraries they hook into like glibc
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah, we just don't have multiarch or whatever it's called.
<nephele>
The main reason why I *ever* needed multiarch on Linux is now gone: wine support
<nipos>
On FreeBSD I always deselect the optional 32bit stuff.Never needed it.
<nephele>
and to be honest, BeOS app support is interesting, but as someoen who doesn't know any BeOS specific apps (that don't run on 64bit haiku) i don't have much of a direct usecase
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah, that's what I said
<Skipp_OSX>
So fatelf is more about some vague future architecture change rather than 32-bit apps which have other problems and aren't very crucial.
<nipos>
It's great that we still have 32bit Haiku for old machines with 32bit CPUs.But on a 64bit system with 64bit hardware,I see no reason for running 32bit stuff.Well,except BeOS binaries maybe,but they're at least 20 years out of date by now
<nephele>
There is still usecases (in theory) like GoBe productive, but if there is ever a native office suite that will rapidly dissapear
<Skipp_OSX>
yep, there's a patchset to add 32-bit support on 64-bit but it's not a priority
<nipos>
It's a shame that they didn't open-source it
<nephele>
and I mean, we already have the table calculation. and word processing is not *that* far off
<Skipp_OSX>
Well I think Gobe is effectively dead now that we have LibreOffice, so since beta1.
<nephele>
Honestly I much prefer calligra on Haiku xD
<Skipp_OSX>
weirdo
<nipos>
GoBe productive could be one of *the* big showcases applications for native stuff,if it were open-source
<nephele>
It has a consistent UI, something I can't say about libreoffice
<augiedoggie_>
the source for gobe was provided to developers for porting but it was not feasible to do it
<Skipp_OSX>
I kid I kid, yes LibreOffice and Caliigra
<nephele>
And Libreoffice tries to destroy my ram when i dare to inline images in text documents
<nephele>
which happens often for my usecase :(
<Skipp_OSX>
Gobe is not actively developed, so it doesn't matter anyway, even if it was open source and available, it would still be irrelevant now that we have LIbreOffice
<nipos>
augiedoggie_: Really?Is that still available?I've read in the forum multiple times that it's lost with no hope
<augiedoggie_>
it was not publicly available, only a few select developers saw the code
<Skipp_OSX>
and it was version 3.0 ported to Windows so it would need to be ported back to Haiku.
<augiedoggie_>
yeah, they had thrown out most of the beos code by then
<nipos>
Oof okay,useless then
<Skipp_OSX>
It's about as relevant as ClarisWorks, it is literally developed by the ClarisWorks developers...
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, it's more like "we found it but it was already dead" rather than "lost with no hope"
<nephele>
how is the native spreadsheet app called?
<Begasus>
2 apps from back then would still be nice I guess, Pixel32 and Refraction
<nephele>
ah, got it. Sum-It
<nipos>
Making the original BeOS GoBe source compile would be easy,I guess,since the API barely changed since then.But porting back the Windows version is a waste of time.
Peppersawce has joined #haiku
Peppersawce has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Peppersawce has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
wb Peppersawce
<Peppersawce>
ty
<Begasus>
wesnoth at %94
<Peppersawce>
I was wondering, the thing you said about $prefix/bin
<Peppersawce>
Does it apply to apps also?
<Begasus>
depends :)
<PulkoMandy>
Pixel32 is/was mainly sdl based, I think. So not really native. Anyway I think the au hor sold the rights to it and no one is distributing it anymore or something like that
<Begasus>
yeah, Pixel32 was multi OS also
<Peppersawce>
Ah cool, wesnoth here takes about 40 mins to compile
<nephele>
huh, 4clause bsd. kinda wierd
<PulkoMandy>
Maybe it's time to stop crying on lost BeOS apps and start writing new ones :)
<nipos>
I mean,I don't really require office stuff here at all.I have M$ Office at work on some Window$ computer and that's the only place I have to deal with that stuff.I only thought GoBe as a major app from the old days would be cool somehow.
<Begasus>
ArtPaint already going nice :)
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: indeed!
<Begasus>
but yeah, sometimes we have our moment of memories :D
<Begasus>
Peppersawce, depends on the binarie
nephele_xmpp has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
if it's straightforward an app then $appsDir is nice enough
<Peppersawce>
Alright, then most of the recipes in my prs need testing for that :)
<Skipp_OSX>
We largely have stopped crying about lost BeOS apps and started writing new ones.
<Begasus>
if it's a binary that comes with multiple cli options imho it should go to $prefix/bin
janking has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<PulkoMandy>
For me the main missing/hard to replace one would be SynC Modular. But I have no souncard driver anyways .(
<nephele>
What does SynC Modular do?
<Begasus>
sound is disrupted/chocky on this VM :/
<Peppersawce>
Begasus agreed but I don't think I paid too much attention to it while making the recipes ngl
<Begasus>
np Peppersawce, wesnoth for instance comes with a server, not something you would launch from $appsDir
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: It's a software modular synth, with midi and lot of modules
<Peppersawce>
Anyway for wesnoth if you disable moving water, v-sync and the frame limiter in the preferences it kinda plays nice for 10 minutes here
<Peppersawce>
in fullscreen
<Begasus>
heh
<Peppersawce>
then it starts to chug
<Begasus>
me no like fullscreen :)
<Peppersawce>
Then it's gonna be more fun for you :D
<Begasus>
can be changed in settings :)
<Skipp_OSX>
We need 3d hardware acceleration really badly right now.
<Peppersawce>
I think I'll have to run it windowed to have a good time in it
<Begasus>
or probably when launched from Terminal
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: interesting. I've actually been thinking of wether the new api for DAWS can be ported to haikus media nodes. Though not sure if that directly would help a synth :)
<Begasus>
something like "wesnoth --windowed"?
<Peppersawce>
yeah it can be changed, honestly the game is really good at this porting thing, it's a thing on its own that runs the same everywhere
<Skipp_OSX>
The Battle for Wesnoth should not be a difficult app to run...
<Peppersawce>
It's not your usual 2d game though, uses a lot of effects and things that do require some power
<Peppersawce>
Not a thing I'd try to run on a Pentium 3 regardless
<Begasus>
which I'm missing now
<Peppersawce>
for instance
<Peppersawce>
it should start windowed on its own iirc
<Skipp_OSX>
well maybe not a p3 but a core2duo which is still pretty old at this point.
<Peppersawce>
But the in-game preference menu should have the option
<Peppersawce>
Fair
<Skipp_OSX>
anyway, I think we need 3d accel, WebKit 2.0, a bunch of bug fixes and we can call it R1 and finally leave 32-bit behind.
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: ah, found the name again CLAP audio :)
<Skipp_OSX>
The original plan for R1 was the BeOS compatible version, but we've modified that to mean a fully functional OS that you could actually use that is BeOS compatible, and that's a much harder goal.
<Peppersawce>
I wish, hw acceleration is what's killing me ngl :)
<nephele>
Peppersawce: for what do you need this? video decoding? 3d games?
<Peppersawce>
games :D
<Skipp_OSX>
The problem is, no matter what we say R1 is, there is an unspoken expectation for what R1 must be to really be R1.
<Peppersawce>
it's not like I *need* it
<nephele>
ah okay :D
<nephele>
For my case i just got a steam deck and play games there :P
<Peppersawce>
Fair :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Right now we can hide behind the fact that we're a beta so not everything is expected to work, but if we release R1, we're saying that we expect it to work, and "it" is a vague and nebulous target that includes a bunch of stuff like 3d accel and YouTube.
<nephele>
meh
<nephele>
i expect video playback to work, in general, in webpositive
<Skipp_OSX>
Literally and specifically YouTube like it or not.
<nephele>
but i don't plan to make youtube specifically work
<nephele>
Yeah, no. i don't care about googles illegal monopoly *shrug*
<Skipp_OSX>
it has to, because people expect it to and is basically the first thing they check.
<Begasus>
it's in the top list request by users
<nipos>
I'd rather call crappy monopolist stuff not being availabe a feature :D
<Skipp_OSX>
The fact that it's a monopoly is why you have to care.
<nipos>
No,I don't have to
<Skipp_OSX>
Well, that's true, but people expect it, that's all.
<nipos>
I'll never ever visit that page and honestly don't give a shit if it works.The good thing if it doesn't is that I can suggest stuff like Invidious
<Skipp_OSX>
First thing people do after installing Haiku is load YouTube and that's how they judge the entire OS like it or not.
<nephele>
no... I did tests with severall people, and nobody did that
<nephele>
I only saw tech youtubers do that. big suprise.
<Peppersawce>
lol
<nipos>
The first thing regarding media playback that I test is if the SWR4 stream works.If it does,everything's fine.
<Begasus>
still no invidious in Haiku :)
<Skipp_OSX>
well yeah the tech YouTubers promote the OS, that's the audience I'm talking about.
<Begasus>
or can you use it in a browser nipos?
<Peppersawce>
whatever the case a good browser is like one of the top apps nowadays, whatever you use it for
<nipos>
Invidious is a website,not an app.It works at least in every browser where Youtube also works (but faster),maybe even in some more that fail to render Youtubes Javascript mess
<Skipp_OSX>
right, unfortunately it is reality whether you acknowledge it or not.
<Begasus>
that's where it starts, define "good" browser :)
<Skipp_OSX>
good browser goes to youtube and plays video well
<Peppersawce>
Begasus, I dunno, I always stuck with Firefox :D
<nipos>
A good browser has to support uBlock Origin,that's all I need
<Begasus>
FF is for Windows
<Begasus>
Angelfish? :)
<nipos>
Use LibreWolf,it's Firefox without the telemetry bullshit ;)
<nephele>
by that definition qmplay2 is a good browser
<Skipp_OSX>
sure, if we could get people to use it that's true.
<nephele>
but honestly, when it comes to bars for browsers, the real bar is safari. Not whatever junk google produces
<Peppersawce>
I don't care about their telemetry, they want it to make a better browser so be it
<Begasus>
if that could be ported to Qt6 it would even mean less deps
<Skipp_OSX>
Safari is basically irrelevant except on iPhone
<Peppersawce>
I used Bezilla in Alpha 1 even :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Chrome is the standard like it or not
<nephele>
Peppersawce: does that justify mozilla installing adware in browsers?
<Peppersawce>
I'm not aware of adware
<nipos>
Thanks nephele,was about to say the same
<Peppersawce>
Is it a thing in the install?
<nephele>
Peppersawce: Mozilla deployed addons that showed Mr Robot advertisement in germany
<Peppersawce>
Oh yeah I run adblock
<nephele>
they deployed this *per default*
<Begasus>
can't check Safari (I think?) :)
<Peppersawce>
I don't see ads, problem solved
<nephele>
adblock does not help with ads your browser injects...
<nipos>
Firefox is technically great,but the company isn't much better than other big tech.So take the technology and remove the vendor lock-in from it => LibreWolf
<Skipp_OSX>
Mozilla is on the ropes unfortunately
<Peppersawce>
I don't see them tho?
<Skipp_OSX>
90% of their income comes from Google... and Google cut them off.
<nephele>
Yes, because their search deal was illegal to maintain googles monopoly
<nipos>
I wouldn't be too sad if the company went bankrupt and the browser becomes a community project again lol
<Skipp_OSX>
but it kept the lights on at Mozilla, which is a sad state of affairs.
<imrahil>
Isn't the main LibreWolf maintainer MIA?
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: not really. If they didn't do this google would have been sued for their practices decades ago
<imrahil>
And it's diverging from arkenfox
<nipos>
You don't need that many billions to build a usable browser
<Skipp_OSX>
Well, Chrome has basically taken over it hardly matters anymore anyway since the industry has consolodated on Chrome and clones.
<nephele>
which in the long run would have been much better
<nipos>
I'd rather stop using computers than touch any Google crap
<Skipp_OSX>
anti-trust is toothless
<nephele>
If you say so...
<nephele>
defeatist attitude
<nephele>
might aswell buy a chromebook then, why bother with haiku?
<Skipp_OSX>
I live in reality, that's all.
<Peppersawce>
It didn't happen with microsoft to be fair
<Begasus>
kiddos :)
<Peppersawce>
They got hit like what, 2 times out of a billion?
<Skipp_OSX>
Well, because Haiku is pretty great and we have to ride the bear
<imrahil>
nephele, ironically chromebooks can actually be some of the most Free modern devices
<nephele>
that doesn't mean we have to implement googles junk
<Peppersawce>
About antitrust
<Begasus>
second that Skipp_OSX :)
<nephele>
imrahil: what do you mean by "free" in that context?
<imrahil>
They all run coreboot
<Skipp_OSX>
Well we don't have to ride the bear, but let's not pretend the bear does not exist.
<imrahil>
Free as in freedom
<nipos>
Nice freedom,I can't even install another OS on it
<nephele>
Not sure what open firmware helps if the OS is spyware?
Peppersawce has quit [Quit: Chat-O-Matic[0.1]: i've been liquified!]
<nephele>
Acording to the fsf defintiion of "freedom" in that sense, just cutting fuses to make upgrading firmware impossible makes devices more free ;)
<nipos>
I still own a extremely old Chromebook which has been completely broken for years
<nephele>
damn. Haiku doesn't support my new gpu
<nephele>
guess, i'll put it in qemu so i can run it in 4k on that device
<nipos>
Tried to install custom firmware that allows booting another OS,that broke it and it's defective since then
<nephele>
not gonna develop webkit with that efi fallback resolution :(
<nipos>
Since then,I'm always buying stuff with preinstalled Windows.Windows sucks,but at least you can easily replace it.Even with Secure Boot and such,you can easily disable it and install on the hardware whatever you want.
<nephele>
nipos: that's just a 100$ markup for your device then :P
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah Chromebooks are pretty dubious
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean, they are basically disposable laptops for schools
<nephele>
I'm actually suprised that the linux support for older (intel) macbooks is so much worse compared to ARM ones
<imrahil>
nipos, yeah some models require more complicated methods to disable write protection. Mine was luckily just a matter of booting it without the battery in
<nipos>
The ability to use Haiku and not be forced to Google crap is easily worth more than $100 for me ;)
<nephele>
Was hoping to use their support as a baseline for haiku
<imrahil>
They're cheap as hell too. I paid $24 for mine
<imrahil>
Might actually install Haiku on it
<Skipp_OSX>
well you're not forced, but you're also not going to change hearts and minds of the unwashed masses
Peppersawce has joined #haiku
<nipos>
Mine was 200 or 300 euro if I remember right.For that amount,you can also get a Windows laptop
<nephele>
sounds like the smartTV model, pay less for the hardware by subsidization of advertisements
<nephele>
there is now a "free" TV in the US with a second screen just for ads
<nephele>
the future is now
<nipos>
Believe it or not,I still have a good old CRT television :D And it works
<Skipp_OSX>
BeOS came with RealPlayer :/
<nipos>
I won't let enshittification ruin my life :P
<nephele>
nipos: I have a "4k gaming monitor". Which just happens to have a hdmi port
<Skipp_OSX>
talk about making a deal with the devil there.
<Peppersawce>
that free tv is a great deal, just break the second screen
<Skipp_OSX>
RealPlayer was the worst of the worst
<Peppersawce>
problem solved
<nephele>
pretty sure it's not "free" as in you own it
kinkinkijkin has joined #haiku
<Skipp_OSX>
Like nobody installed RealPlayer on purpose, it was installed on everything though
<nephele>
but rather free as in no dollars you have to fork over
<Peppersawce>
As long as it is in my hands I don't think the difference matters
<Skipp_OSX>
a very bad time, thankfully forgotten
<Peppersawce>
But I'm joking, they probably thought a way around that
<nipos>
I also remember RealPlayer from my old days with Windows.Is that still a thing?
<Peppersawce>
nope, realplayer is like flash
<Peppersawce>
well, maybe the company still is a thing? I dunno
<Begasus>
maybe could make it play my iTunes files :P
<imrahil>
Just buy a smart TV and never connect it to the internet
<nipos>
Flash was also awful.It was really painful trying to do literally *anything* in the old web without having it installed.
<imrahil>
Unfortunately commercial displays are insanely expensive and have mediocre picture
MisthaLu has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<nipos>
I don't think I'll need to replace my TV in the next 10 years or so
<nipos>
Has worked fine for 30 years now,why would it not for another 10 or 20 years? lol
<Skipp_OSX>
must not be a plasma...
<nephele>
imrahil: doesn't work unfortunately, some have software locks that will apparently "brick" untill you connect it
<nephele>
Begasus: iTunes dropped DRM, so you can use the files as you want
<nephele>
i imported some music from iTunes into sims 2
<imrahil>
nipos, based, but also large TV and 4k and HDR are nice :)
<imrahil>
nephele, like the Roku ones you mean? Yeah never buy a Roku TV
<imrahil>
None of them are good TVs anyway
<nephele>
I heard that about samsung ones too
<imrahil>
Oh yeah Samsung is also junk
<nephele>
imrahil: in my case i bought a "4k gaming oled" display
nephele_xmpp has left #haiku [Error from remote client]
<nipos>
As long as you need to pay HD+ to get anything but ARD and ZDF in HD,I won't need 4k
<nephele>
Which, has no internet features at all
<nephele>
and just displays whatever it gets in hdmi
<imrahil>
nipos, idk what that means
<nephele>
and displayport, usb-c, is an awesome bonus
<imrahil>
nephele, yeah but large display nice
<nephele>
imrahil: ARD and ZDF are two public channels in germany
<imrahil>
Actually the largest displays (projectors) are also "dumb"
<nephele>
imrahil: can get those too as gaming displays ;)
<nephele>
we have a projector in our living room as tv :D
<imrahil>
nephele, like what? I'm curious
<nephele>
the one i got now is 31'' iirc
<nephele>
but there is also 40'' ones
<nephele>
but they become much more expensive quickly
<imrahil>
Which is tiny for a theater or even living room setup
nosycat has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<imrahil>
My next TV will probably be an 83" LG OLED
<Begasus>
nephele, those files are about 20years old, so far haven't found any way to play them in Haiku
<Begasus>
Peppersawce, build is fine, "wesnoth -w" still launches in fullscreen though (setting it in the prefs inline works though)
<nephele>
Begasus: if you still have your iTunes account you "just" need to redownload them
gouchi has joined #haiku
<Begasus>
lol
<Begasus>
wouldn't even know how to get in there again nephele :D
<Begasus>
probably with another email address I can't access anymore :)
<nephele>
imrahil: the biggers ones i can find (from a shallow search) seeem to be around 48''
<nephele>
Begasus: still have an email adress for it?
<Begasus>
don't think so nephele
<Begasus>
haven't logged in there for years
<nephele>
If you have a way to reset your password or something you should be able to download them anyhow
<Begasus>
yeah, not that much there to bother though :)
<nephele>
nowadays they are just acc files... the fight against drm in itunes was won. Now we have music streaming *shrug*
<nephele>
if you cant play acc you can re-encode it with ffmpeg
<Begasus>
we can get them from anywhere now (streaming)
<nipos>
You can also just use yt-dlp,maybe easier ;)
<nephele>
yeah but i cant stream them into sims 2 :P
<Begasus>
heh
<nephele>
nipos: something to be said about spending (a little) money to get high quality recordings :)
<nephele>
but yes it depends. the industry can be quite greedy
<Begasus>
looked into the source for plasmatube earlier when I saw the flatpak layout they use for yt_dlp_python, we're missing one from that list :)
<nipos>
I listen like 75% to radio,24% to vinyl and like 1% I stream music using Invidious or similar.
<Begasus>
used quite some podcasts recently, can be relaxing too :)
<nipos>
But never proprietary DRM shit.If I pay for it,I want to own it (vinyl)
<nephele>
According to my sibling vinyl recordings are made from unsafe PVC that emit chlorine... which turns into salzsäure in contact with water
<nephele>
so can cause lung cacner
<Begasus>
those were free gifts from the ISP back then :)
<nipos>
Everything can cause cancer in some way in another
OscarL has joined #haiku
<nephele>
yeah but inhaling chlorine gas is not a good idea in general :D
* Begasus
lights another sigaret ...
<nipos>
I don't smoke,rarely drink alcohol and such,but I wan't to listen to DRM-free quality music of course
<Begasus>
g'morning OscarL (again) :)
<nephele>
I have my drm free music on my computer
<OscarL>
Begasus: hi again :-) (sleep patterns more erratic than usual, lol)
<nipos>
Well,maybe it's more like 80% radio,19% vinyl or 85% radio,14% vinyl in the end,I don't know.The biggest part is radio anyway
<Begasus>
yeah, as I said this morning to Monni, OscarL can take the other shift :P
<nipos>
Have to use it as long as FM still works.DAB sounds horrible
<OscarL>
:-D
<OscarL>
guess I'll give the just released Python 3.13.0rc3 a go.
<Begasus>
ah, finaly released?
<OscarL>
just a third release candidate.
<Begasus>
ah no rc3
<OscarL>
final release pushed for next week.
<Begasus>
k, Peppersawce, anything else needed for wesnoth?
<Begasus>
I'll check in the morning for comments, if nothing pops up I'll merge then
<Begasus>
chat-o-magic still works, so I guess in it's current state (nothing fancy changed) it should be good to merge also
<Begasus>
I guess Renga will take presedence over that though?
<Begasus>
and it will have to be a VERY good IRC client before it will have me stopping Vision :)
_-Caleb-_ has left #haiku [#haiku]
<Begasus>
k, closing down here, OscarL is in the house
<OscarL>
See you Begasus!
<Begasus>
cu in the morning
Begasus has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
_-Caleb-_ has joined #haiku
dpirate has joined #haiku
dpirate has quit []
janking has joined #haiku
<Peppersawce>
@Begasus if you find nothing wrong in wesnoth and chat-o-matic's prs I guess they're fine 'cause I think they're fine
<Peppersawce>
(was at dinner)
<nephele>
Renga is likely prefered over Chat-O-Matic if you need xmpp
nexus6 has joined #haiku
<Peppersawce>
I updated chat-o-matic along with libpurple etc. in hopes of getting more than irc out of it
<Peppersawce>
I mean I updated the recipes
<Peppersawce>
And didn't get what I wanted but if the apps gets more exposure this way maybe it will get some more hands on it as well who knows
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
mmu_man has joined #haiku
Anarchos has joined #haiku
<Anarchos>
is a linking flag mandatory to link against libgnu.so ?
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
zard has quit [Quit: leaving]
HaikuUser has quit []
<OscarL>
Anarchos: same case as with libbsd.so, I would assume, no?
<jmairboeck>
Hi OscarL! It's 21:08 here (same timezone as e.g. Begasus, central Europe)
<Anarchos>
OscarL i do'nt care, i just port something :)
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: good night then :-) (albeit pretty early, for our local customs at least :-))
<Skipp_OSX>
Haiku is in debt to a lot of central Europeans
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<Guest5060>
jmairboeck: hello
<Guest5060>
jmairboeck: 20:17 now, here in NE Scotland
Guest5060 is now known as gordonjcp
gordonjcp is now known as Guest5132
<Guest5132>
bah, nickserv keeps forgetting who I am
Guest5132 is now known as gordonjcp
<gordonjcp>
does my head in
<OscarL>
too bad that my attemps to get a low-powered PC to act as local haikuports buildmaster have failed so far.
* OscarL
turns on a fan before starting to melt again while building Python on the Phenom II.
<jmairboeck>
gordonjcp: Greetings from Austria!
<gordonjcp>
jmairboeck: grüss gott!
<gordonjcp>
jmairboeck: wo kommen Sie aus Österreich?
<gordonjcp>
sorry my German is terrible, but slowly getting better
<jmairboeck>
Ich bin aus Oberösterreich, unteres Mühlviertel.
<jmairboeck>
Did you understand that?
<OscarL>
I did somehow :-/
<gordonjcp>
jmairboeck: also, schon. Meine Frau is aus Wien
<jmairboeck>
OscarL: you speak German too? But I must admit, I do sometimes understand a bit of your Spanish too, but not much.
vezhlys has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: I have zero clue about German, still manage to pick up the general idea of basic phrases like the ones written just now. No idea how.
petterhj has joined #haiku
<OscarL>
Sometimes I can read French without much issue. Other days I fail hard even on the simplest phrases. My brain is weird :-)
<jmairboeck>
I learned a bit of French just for fun, but it is a difficult language, especially spoken. Written French is a bit easier. Maybe that's why I pick up a bit of Spanish sometimes too.
<nexus6>
hello everyone! I've created a pretty silly PR for Dockbert. Could anybody check and approve it?
<OscarL>
nexus6: hi. just a heads up... In my experience... reviews can take quite a while on HaikuArchives. (unless you poke the right person, and they just happen to have enough free time at that moment)
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck Meine Mutter ist aus Murau, in Styria.
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck french is really easy for me :)
<jmairboeck>
Anarchos: ah, I didn't know you had a connection to Austria too :)
<jmairboeck>
French is easy for most people in France I guess ;)
nephele has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck Ja, aber ich habe Deutsch zur Schule gelernt.
Peppersawce has quit [Quit: Chat-O-Matic[0.1]: i've been liquified!]
<gordonjcp>
I mostly have trouble with verbs and working out when you use something like abfahren or fahrt <this> ab
petterhj has joined #haiku
<gordonjcp>
although I found in Vienna everyone was really helpful, more so I noticed than with people who just fired up in English straight away
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp like we have trouble with 'set off/ set over' etc (postpositions ?)
<gordonjcp>
next time I plan on having a t-shirt with "Schottland Ist Europäisch" on it
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: could be?
<OscarL>
showing that you at least acknowledge that other languages besides English exists... tends to go a long way with people :-)
<gordonjcp>
OscarL: indeed, it was like that in France too
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp could be what ?
<gordonjcp>
OscarL: guy in a shop where I was staying was pretty sneery about my shitty French and pretended not to understand, and eventually asked, "Anglais?"
<gordonjcp>
Ah, mais non, je 'n suis Anglais pas, je suis Ecossais
<dovsienko>
OscarL: there are ginkgo trees in Buenos Aires
<OscarL>
A frenchmen getting pissed off at people not speaking flawless French? unheard of! :-P
<HaikuUser>
hello i am testing haiku at the moment
<gordonjcp>
"Oh shit, sorry, I thought you were English, I am so sorree, I am not so good at accents, now what was it you wanted?"
HaikuUser is now known as Dogon
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp history between france and england is complicated :)
<gordonjcp>
OscarL: it could be the same as postpositions, I don't know the word for that in German and these days I'm not so sure about it in English
<Dogon>
i had first time to entrance in this irc channel
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: yes, very
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: less so with Scotland though
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp i am 50% britton so i can understand what scots feel towards england...
<Dogon>
haiku al most done
<dovsienko>
Dogon: congratulations, what would you like to have done using Haiku?
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: it turns out it's really simple to avoid hassle at
<gordonjcp>
the customs post at Calais
<gordonjcp>
you just have to have Scottish numberplates on your car
<Dogon>
so many things. for exampl amd microcode has and ralink drivers done
<Dogon>
something like video cards maybe but vesa driver amazing
<dovsienko>
if wireless does not work, the simplest way to solve it is to use wireless that works or wired
<dovsienko>
people that know how to fix wireless are busy fixing other things
<Dogon>
@dovsienko i have to ralink one of is ralink rt3090 its working perfect other is ralink rt 2870 its working little bit glitchy but every thing done
<OscarL>
dovsienko: re: ginkgo in Bs.As.: Could be. I haven't really noticed the few times I rush by through Bs.As. Only one I remember at least, was the bonzai one that my stepfather's used to have (in my native Mar del Plata). I'm pretty bad identifying trees/plants anyway :-D
jmairboeck has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<Dogon>
i whish that see window borders to make yellow like tab
<nexus6>
OscarL: yes I do not expect to happen tonight :) I have commit rights but I prefer a clean PR. No rush
<dovsienko>
Dogon: RTL8188EUS works well, it is a tiny USB thing from TP-Link
<Skipp_OSX>
you can change the window border in Appearance to be yellow like tab, try drag and dropping tab color to active window border color
<Skipp_OSX>
you'll have to turn off "Use automatic colors" first
<nexus6>
TP-Link nano-something is a bit slow but it does the job
crmsnbleyd has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
<Skipp_OSX>
We talked about making this the default... but we've decided to hold off on color changes for now
crmsnbleyd has joined #haiku
gouchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<OscarL>
nexus6: minor nitpick. use a shorter line as "summary line" in commit messages, expand on commit message body if needed.
<OscarL>
yellow border is a bit too much for my taste.
<Dogon>
how can i make it do you know?
<dovsienko>
OscarL: yellow is easier to see if there's a need for that
<OscarL>
sure, but doesn't makes it pretty :-P
<Dogon>
but not backgroud just borders other place have to stay same
<OscarL>
Dogon: on Appearance preflet... uncheck "Automatically pick secondary colors", and then change "Window border" settings.
<OscarL>
make it match the color that "Window tab" already has, and you're set.
<OscarL>
Wwe have amd_microcode pachages already, no? (even a PR open to update it)
<Dogon>
Thank you OscarL
<Dogon>
its looks beautiful i love it
<OscarL>
"pkgman search -s name microcode" shows both amd/intel microcode packages.
<Dogon>
Thank you so much
<OscarL>
if I recall correctly, if they are actually used, you should see that reflected on the /var/log/syslog file.
<Dogon>
Thank you OscarL
<OscarL>
no problem :-)
<OscarL>
not all CPU family/model/stepping have a corresponding microcode file thou.