<chaosDNA>
everything went poof in 2006, as you know.
<OscarL>
Nice! Congrats! (on both the family, and the return to the flock :-))
<OscarL>
chaosDNA: yeah... I "disappeared" too in early 2006 (moved across country, no internet at home till a couple of years ago).
<Skipp_OSX>
ok just fix the conflict then
<chaosDNA>
i see that mmu_man is still ticking too. :)
<OscarL>
chaosDNA: I kept ocassionally reading mailing list, rss feeds and suck whenever I got at least some dialup, but pretty much stayed as lurker for quite a long time.
<chaosDNA>
i moved and homesteaded. no internet but dialup until 2010, the hughes jupiter
<OscarL>
I think beta5's .configure went nuts: "You need a case sensitive file-system to build Haiku"
<OscarL>
nuked "generated" dir... tried again same command... worked OK this time. Oh well.
<chaosDNA>
OscarL: wasn't it you who i hired to mirror and relink back to bebits? my memory is fuzzy. or was it BeRyllium?
<OscarL>
It surely wasn't me :-)
<OscarL>
I do remember you offering to host/mirror my little bebits shennanigans at the time, though! (which was great, because I didn't even new where to put my little apps/drivers :-D)
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<chaosDNA>
i'm happy to be back. gimme a few days to build a box and i'll binky BeShare
<OscarL>
:-D
<OscarL>
don't forget to say hi to Atrus! :-P (don't recall the name of the new bot)
<OscarL>
"/msg Atrus catsup" to see what others were talking about... oh, the memories. Now we have full on logs for this channel.
<chaosDNA>
catsup 10 000 000
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<scantysnax>
good times.
<OscarL>
hello there scantysnax :-)
<scantysnax>
hi OscarL. how are you feeling?
<OscarL>
better... better not talk about it :-P
<scantysnax>
ah, okay
<OscarL>
(half-serious, half-joking :-D). Better now than earlier, so... that's good at least! (trying to update some recipes).
<OscarL>
how about you?
<scantysnax>
mostly pretty good. some rough patches these past few weeks, but nothing serious.
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<OscarL>
Welp. Wish you the good times last as long as possible!
<scantysnax>
thanks, you as well :)
<OscarL>
(and if not... that at least we get some hours/days to "breath" bewteen rough patches :-)
<scantysnax>
true
<scantysnax>
i have to go for an MRI tomorrow.
<scantysnax>
not looking forward to that.
<OscarL>
never had one of those, but I can see how it can be a bit unsettling if one goes in while being a bit nervous.
<scantysnax>
i have had an MRI before, this worst discomfort is when they inject the dye into you
<OscarL>
imaging that the loud sounds are just from a bad DJ might help? :-)
<scantysnax>
contrast time
<scantysnax>
contrast dye*
<OscarL>
yeah, forgot about that part :-(
<scantysnax>
it burns when it goes in, and then you get really hot, and then you have to pee
<scantysnax>
i just hope it doesn't take a long time
<scantysnax>
and maybe a cute nurse
<OscarL>
Sounds like a crappy party :-(. Let us hope for it to be a short one then!
<OscarL>
that could help :-)
<scantysnax>
i've been to a lot of doctors, and haven't yet had a cute nurse.
<scantysnax>
they must be out there somewhere, statistically
<secondcreek>
just do _not_ think about the MRI fight scene while you are in there. https://youtu.be/y5vxDOma1Ok
<scantysnax>
well, then i surely will not watch that video.
<secondcreek>
it is a highly unlikely scenario
<OscarL>
scantysnax: my mother was a nurse for 32 years... I used to basically live in a hospital, as a kid, when she had long shifts... I don't ever recall seeing a cute nurse either, lol.
<scantysnax>
haha
<scantysnax>
cute pharmacist at the pharmacy today. probably half my age.
<scantysnax>
yeah, i'm old.
<OscarL>
*old(er) Begasus would say :-) (and he's old(er), so... better listen to the elders! :-P)
<scantysnax>
indeed.
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<Halian>
o/
<OscarL>
\o
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<OscarL>
no idea why my beta5 build keep failing. sigh.
<OscarL>
(built from master just fine before on this install)
<OscarL>
"cannot find {crti.o,start_dyn.o,init_term_dyn.o}" (I alread run "CC=gcc-x86 ./configure" after nuking "generated" dir)
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<OscarL>
Anyone knows gerrit enough to tell me if I should "git push origin HEAD:refs/for/r1beta5" to submmit the fix for the merge confict on https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/8536 ?
<OscarL>
silly me first tried with the "usual" HEAD:refs/for/master (and got rejected :-D)
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<OscarL>
I give up. Keep getting that "cannot find ctri.o" (and co) whaterver I try to build on Haiku's repo (running 32 bits, hrev58289)
<OscarL>
crti.o is under /boot/system/develop/lib/crtio, and belongs to haiku_devel package.
<OscarL>
mmm, doh. missing haiku_x86_devel :-)
<secondcreek>
you answered your own question :)
<OscarL>
this is what happens when you test a single "haiku.hpkg"... the previous _devel packages get unninstalled along with their matching haiku-r1beta5*.hpkg
<OscarL>
secondcreek: thanks to coolcoder613 knudges :-D
<OscarL>
s/knudge/nudge (/me can't type, nor English, right)
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<secondcreek>
no regex bot here?
<secondcreek>
s/no/yes
<secondcreek>
nah
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<secondcreek>
better anyways, in #monero-pools we have one, and it's used to prank ppl
<Begasus[m]>
recipe wise it's always better to stick with the beta
<Begasus[m]>
my 2 cents*
<OscarL>
and that "missing" haiku_x86_devel kept me running in circles, while tring to test a Tracker fix.
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I got two fresh beta5 installs on SSD now, but they are not yet "production ready" for HaikuPorts work.
<Begasus[m]>
checking local fixes then?
<Begasus[m]>
focus! :)
<OscarL>
issue is.. I moved away from beta5 because of way too many crashes and bugs so...
<Begasus[m]>
took me a few days after last problems to get into shape, you can do it too :)
<Begasus[m]>
most annoying thing atm is the choppy sound in VM :/
<OscarL>
If I want to remain in beta5 for HP work... I hope to get at least the most annoying bugs out of the way :-)
<Begasus[m]>
so things like PlasmaTube/Haruna/Kasts is a nogo in VM
<OscarL>
:-(
<Begasus[m]>
if those are not in the way how buildmasters work it should be fine I guess? :)
<Begasus[m]>
but we've seen it before, build on nightly is fine but not on the beta
<Begasus[m]>
dogs are still not adjusted to the winter hour here ...
<OscarL>
yes, that's why I open a ticket over vmware_addons, so it can be build on both beta5 and nightlies.
<Begasus[m]>
could try a build later perhaps in this VM for 64bit
<Begasus[m]>
finaly got the Pro version installed :)
<OscarL>
it is a pretty small package (vmware_addons), builds quite fast. Wish I could say the same for the unholy mess that it is virtualbox_guest_additions :-(
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<OscarL>
Reason for my wanting to update it is to include a small fix, so vmware_video stops spamming the syslog with usless lines.
<Begasus[m]>
+1
<Begasus>
Subject: [PATCH] Fix build on nightlies.*
<Begasus>
so this does nothing on beta?
<OscarL>
it shouldn't as the breakage occured on hrev58151.
<Begasus>
error: /boot/system/develop/tools/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-haiku/13.3.0/../../../../x86_64-unknown-haiku/bin/ld: cannot find -lsupc++-kernel: No such file or directory
<OscarL>
Begasus: missing gcc_syslibs ?
<OscarL>
*_devel
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<OscarL>
"LCD subpixel" antialiasing type looks really bad on Terminal when using white on black text :-/
<OscarL>
Grayscale it is then.
<Begasus>
ah could be, with full-sync yesterday some suff got uninstalled
<Begasus>
but then the recipe should take care of that?
<bl4ze>
I am not able to connect wifi in haiku. In the quick tour , "wireless connection" section, there's a wireless decide part which my haiku doesnt have
<Begasus>
yep missing from the recipe OscarL
<Begasus>
same here bl4ze, using external dongle for it
<Begasus>
anyway, out for a bit
<OscarL>
Begasus: good to know. Only used "make install" outside HP, to test it, after hp failed (due to me running nightlies).
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<OscarL>
bl4ze: not sure what you mean by "wireless decide part". You mean the NetworkStatus icon on Deskbar?
<OscarL>
(if that's the case... you can enable that icon from the Network preference app: "Show network status in Deskbar")
<OscarL>
if the issue is that it doesn't actually shows a list of WiFi networks to connect... you might be out of luck then.
<bl4ze>
Yeah it doesnt shows a list of WiFi networks
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<bl4ze>
Why is that? and how do i proceed then?
<OscarL>
Not much you can do, I'm affraid, unless you're into driver development, and can help make it better.
<bl4ze>
How do i still contribute?
<OscarL>
maybe open a ticket over https://trac.haiku-os.org, where you add the output of the "listdev" command, and the /var/log/syslog file as attachments.
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<OscarL>
it could be that there's simply no driver available for your WiFi card... or that it is not working perfectly.
<bl4ze>
is it because i'm doing it in a vm?
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<OscarL>
Unless you're using some form of I/O bypass, so the VM can directly access the hardware... yeah... you won't see WiFi on a VM.
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<OscarL>
No real need for WiFi in a VM, when you can just emulate an ethernet card.
<OscarL>
doesn't matter if the host actually uses WiFi to connect to the internet, the Host<->VM interaction is what you should care about "from inside the VM".
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<bl4ze2>
OscarL: Thanks , Its working now
<OscarL>
:-)
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<OscarL>
bah, got my first media_addon_server crash on the SSD :-(
<Begasus>
re
<Begasus>
OK, is this safe to install OscarL? ;)
<OscarL>
I ran "make install" from vmware_addons clone without issues, at least :-)
<Begasus>
no crash so far :)
<Begasus[m]>
clipboard sharing works :)
<OscarL>
I *might* end up switching to VMware 16, just to have that working, and not crashing on the regular, like in VBox :-D
<OscarL>
cloned haikuporter and haikuports already... before doing much work, I need to patch haikuporter to use separate "repository" per arch, but only one clone.
<OscarL>
(got tired of dealing with separate clones per arch)
<Begasus[m]>
could be handy indeed
<OscarL>
"shouldn't be too hard" (famous last words)
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<Begasus[m]>
new car on the way, can't week untill next week :)
<OscarL>
just as with haiku you can use different "generated" dirs, "repository.$(arch)" shouldn't be that much of a change.
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<Begasus[m]>
won't it populate multiple items in the repository directory then?
<OscarL>
I think that there should be one "repository" per primary arch... say... repository.x86_64 and repository.x86_32
<Begasus[m]>
that would be better yes
<OscarL>
the latter should contain both gcc2 and x86 data, just as it does now.
<Begasus[m]>
how about the wor* directories?
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<OscarL>
I think I'll need to add arch suffix there too.
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<OscarL>
same as already done for _x86
<Begasus[m]>
haikuporter tends to create work directories for about every recipe, even if it isn't build
<OscarL>
yeah... that's suboptimal, to not be to harsh.
<OscarL>
*too
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<Begasus[m]>
too not be to harsh?
<OscarL>
:-P
<Begasus>
ah! mouse sharing works also :)
<OscarL>
why on earh LC_NUMERIC and LC_MONETARY are still set to es_ar.UTF-8, even if I set everything to just plain "en" :-/
<OscarL>
(wish I had at least one day per week without hitting bug after bug :-/)
<Begasus>
now wouldn't it be a thing I launch something on this VM and drag it to the external monitor on Windows ? :D
<Begasus>
k, someone enables screen sharing as an option? :P
<OscarL>
in VirtualBox there's a "Seamless mode". You can have plain windows from the VM as standalone windows on the Host (I remember using that at work)
<OscarL>
but with how broken/unfinished/bit-rotten our virtualbox-guess-additions are... doubt we'll ever get that on Haiku :-)
* OscarL
kicks himself in the rear.
<OscarL>
seems I have my fix on profile commented out for testing purposes... and on this particular install... never uncomented it :-/
<Begasus>
tsss :P
<OscarL>
one of the reasons I want/need to centralize things... I lose track of things too much :-)
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<Begasus>
you could install novelwriter and keep track in there :)
<Begasus>
reminds me that I should check roidex(?) work and compare to what I have here :P
<Begasus>
nice, it also works the other way round, copy in Windows, paste in Haiku :)
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<bl4ze>
which ide do people often use in haiku? is it BeIDE?
<Begasus>
There is Genio now for native IDE, or Paladin
<Begasus>
for external ones, there is quite a variaty
<bl4ze>
Thanks:)
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<Begasus>
out for a bit again :)
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<matthewcroughan>
First time I've ever seen a "security risk" warning from a firefox download on linux 🤔
<matthewcroughan>
Ah it's because it's coming from http without ssl
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<Anarchos>
hello
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<matthewcroughan>
One thing that has so far been unintuitive for me in installing Haiku, is that upon successful installation to a disk, the installer disk mutates itself, and on second boot ends up being in a "Try Haiku" state, leading the user to falsely believe the installation was successful, not sure how much of this is user error on my part
<matthewcroughan>
I have an old 32 bit machine which is only able to boot in a specific setup, so I installed to a second disk, but this second disk cannot itself be booted, so I thought I'd try again. But I found that my installer disk had actually modified its contents and became "Try Haiku" by default, somehow.
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan maybe you miss the 'makebootable' operation ?
<matthewcroughan>
Maybe, but the installer disk modifying itself seems like a bad idea? Is this known?
<matthewcroughan>
Since it meant that I had to unplug the installer disk, and re-flash the haiku installer iso, in order to get access to the installer again
<augiedoggie_>
The installer is just a regular application you can run
<augiedoggie_>
available in the blue leaf menu or by browsing the disk
<matthewcroughan>
Yes, I just mean it is strange and unlike other systems. Usually the installer disk doesn't modify itself?
<matthewcroughan>
It seems like the WiFi for this laptop (compaq nc6120) doesn't work in Haiku anyway, is there anywhere I can read about the existing driver support?
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan for wifi, just tells us the model of your network card
<matthewcroughan>
It does show up in listdev as "PRO/Wireless 2200G [Calexico2]"
<matthewcroughan>
is there a way to have listdev show the "kernel module in use" like Linux's lspci would?
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan if y our network card is not recognized, its driver won't show up in the list of areas used by the kernel
<matthewcroughan>
what is the equivalent of dmesg in Haiku?
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan but we have the «lspci» command :)
<matthewcroughan>
Ah looks like /boot/system/var/log/syslog
<matthewcroughan>
Anarchos: It doesn't seem to be in the default install by that name `lspci` so I might have to connect to a network to install it right?
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<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan you're right it is not installed by default
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<matthewcroughan>
It appears none of the USB Wireless devices in my drawer make Haiku happy either.. hmm
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan strange, i see drivers/network/wlan/iprowifi2200 in the source code
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan so your wifi card should be supported.
<matthewcroughan>
It says "could not load firmware" without much else debug information in the kernel log
<matthewcroughan>
But yeah it does notice the existence of the device and tries to use and load that driver
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<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan what version of haiku do you use ?
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<matthewcroughan>
I just downloaded and installed beta4, somehow
<matthewcroughan>
Though I should try beta5
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<matthewcroughan>
Looks like beta5 doesn't fix it, though I do now see a battery meter in beta5 that I didn't see before, on the Deskbar
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan i see the iprowifi2200 as old as 2021 so it should fairly work in my opinion
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<matthewcroughan>
When it says "Failed to load firmware" in the kernel syslog, how can I debug further?
<matthewcroughan>
e.g is there a utility like rfkill in Linux?
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* Anarchos
finds it difficult too build an old gcc2_hybrid from 2022
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<Anarchos>
why do i get this error : generated/build_packages/gcc_x86_syslibs_devel-11.2.0_2021_07_28-5-x86_gcc2/develop/headers/x86/c++/type_traits:1447:12: error: expected identifier before '__is_nothrow_convertible'
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<Monni>
Anarchos: Most likely the error is before that and confusing the compiler when trying to parse the template...
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<Anarchos>
Monni strange, i just checkout an old commit from 2022 and tried to build it
<Monni>
Anarchos: Picking random commit might not always result in getting correct version of files... Sometimes going few commits newer or older will fix mysterious errors...
<Anarchos>
Monni i am sure it build at that time
<Monni>
Anarchos: Building gcc is only guaranteed to work when using the previous version of gcc or the same exact version...
<Anarchos>
Monni i don't build gcc, i build haiku !
<Monni>
Anarchos: When you build Haiku, it will also build gcc
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<Anarchos>
Monni only iif you do a cross-build
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<Monni>
Anarchos: Anyways, most likely cause is that there is version mismatch between compiler and the headers it tries to use...
<OscarL>
Anarchos: sometimes things changes on Haiku's headers/defines/etc, and you then cannot build things on older revisions, unless you patch things up (assuming you find *what* to patch).
<OscarL>
(or the other way around, can't build older software on newer hrevs)
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<Monni>
Usually looking at the preprocessed output will reveal the real error...
<Monni>
Something either gets defined as empty, ot contains reserved characters....
<Monni>
} without matching { for example can give mysterious errors... same for misplaced ;
<Anarchos>
OscarL i see... my trouble is that nightly has trouble with a legacy driver. And i am not skilled enough for that
<OscarL>
I know the feeling all too well :-( 99.99% of things are above my skill level :-)
<Monni>
When I started with Haiku, I did ask a lot from people who knew more than me...
<Anarchos>
OscarL when i compile my patch on nightly, at execution i got : legacy_driver_add_preloaded : Failed to add rtl81xx : Device not available
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: there are some files where you instruct the build system on which driver/app/addon/etc has to be added to which .hpkg or .iso/.img/etc.
<OscarL>
maybe you're missing adding rtl81xx on the right place? (just a shoot in the dark)
<OscarL>
ah... "device" not available, not "driver" not availabe... might be something else then, I guess.
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<OscarL>
nipos: getting "502 Bad Gateway" when I was about to make my first search on your OpenGrok instance :-)
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<Anarchos>
OscarL PulkoMandy said me it has something to do with legacy d rivers and packagefs
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<OscarL>
in kernel.cpp's main2()... legacy_driver_add_preloaded() comes before vfs_mount_boot_file_system(). Maybe the rtl81xx driver needs some lib/addon/module that it is not available that early?
<OscarL>
in any case, way out of my league, so... wish you good luck with that, and I'll go back to something more on my pay-grade :-)
<Monni>
I can't even find error code for "Device not available"... Most drivers should only need the bus module, for network cards, it's likely PCI bus module...
<OscarL>
Monni: I think it comes from line 1420 of kernel/device_manager/legacy_drivers.cpp ? "status = imagePath.Append(image->name);" is the closest that sets "status" before that "legacy_driver_add_preloaded: Failed to add [...]" message.
<Monni>
OscarL: Would be useful to know contents of imagePath at that moment...
<Anarchos>
Monni the error code is ENOXIO
<Anarchos>
Monni yes i will trace the imagePAth value
<Monni>
I know ENXIO
<Anarchos>
this one yes
<Monni>
That one maps to "Device not accessible"
<Anarchos>
OscarL do you remember the year legacy driver/new style(?) drivers diverged ?
<OscarL>
no, sorry.
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<Monni>
ENXIO is only returned in 4 places in whole Haiku sources... So not very hard to diagnose why it is returned...
<OscarL>
From what I can see "imagePath" will be something like: /boot/system/add-ons/kernel/rtl81xx ? if "vfs_mount_boot_file_system()" gets called after "legacy_driver_add_preloaded()", kinda expected "/boot" to be a "Device not available" ?
<Anarchos>
OscarL really no idea.
<Anarchos>
OscarL i forgot to precise it is for the haiku-netboot.tgz archive
<Anarchos>
OscarL the net boot loader
<Monni>
init_hardware() or init_driver() hooks failing can result in ENXIO being returned...
<Monni>
It's been over 15 years since I worked on drivers... But those came to mind when grepping the source tree...
<OscarL>
KPath.cpp's Append() only returns B_NO_INIT/B_BAD_VALUE/B_OK or B_BUFFER_OVERFLOW, so might not be 1420 after, but "add_driver()" the one failing.
<Monni>
OscarL: That's what I figured out too...
<Monni>
Specifically when add_driver() calls load_driver() which can return ENXIO...
<OscarL>
is TRACE() disabled for load_driver()? otherwise Anarchos should be getting a more specific debug output from that function, no?
<Anarchos>
OscarL i will add TRACE to see the different values
<Anarchos>
OscarL but that laptop is slow to compile, and i was unable to cross compile on my x64 server
<Monni>
OscarL: By default, it should be disabled...
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<OscarL>
in any case, init_hardware() init_driver() for rtl81xx come from the freebsd_network compat layer, so good luck chasing that down.
<Monni>
It's Halloween... Best time for chasing anything...
<Anarchos>
OscarL i t hink it is a matter of order of initialization between "vfs_mount_boot_file_system()" and init_driver
<Monni>
Then it means the tarball is missing something that it should contain...
<Anarchos>
Monni not sure but plausible
<Anarchos>
Monni the build/jam/images/NetBootArchive has not been maintained for months.
<Monni>
Anarchos: Like I said earlier, it should only need driver for PCI bus.... But what PCI driver needs, that's another question...
<Anarchos>
i forced add the pci driver. no idea of its dependencies !
<Monni>
Gonna need to kick the person who wrote the PCI bus driver to see if he remembers its dependencies ;)
<Anarchos>
Monni code is so intricated after 20y...
<Monni>
Anarchos: True... But someone remembers more than we know currently...
<OscarL>
Anarchos: I think pci module needs acpi and also the "ecam" kernel addon.
<Anarchos>
OscarL acpi should be there in build/jam/images/NetBootArchive. ecam ? never head about that
<OscarL>
X86PCIController.{h,cpp} has an fECAMPCIController instance of "ECAMPCIControllerACPI".
<Anarchos>
let me look
<OscarL>
under add-ons/kernel/busses/pci/
<OscarL>
you'll see x86 and ecam side by side
<Anarchos>
ok but why is ecam not mentioned in any of build/jam/images/* ?
<OscarL>
Anarchos: git log shows "pci/x86: reimlpement PCIe configuration mechanism using ECAM" from May 2023
<OscarL>
hrev57034 if you want to look at it.
<OscarL>
ecam added on Dec 2022.
<Anarchos>
ok but why no ecam in /build/jam/images files ?
<OscarL>
weird, jamfile for ecam has a "KernelAddon <pci>ecam" target, but not seeing it under /system/add-ons/kernel/busses/pci/ I only see "x86" :-/
<OscarL>
bah..
<Anarchos>
OscarL maybe <pci> is an alias for pci/x86 ?
<OscarL>
jamfile for the "x86" looks for the needed ecam .cpp files and compiles them into the "KernelAddon <pci>x86", if I'm reading it right.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: the "<pci>" is just to separate/distiguish "x86" module for PCI from the one for CPU.
<Anarchos>
all that jam stuff is way over my head
<Anarchos>
time to sleep...
<OscarL>
yeah. Sleep well :-)
<Anarchos>
anyway, if i understand there is a chance that pci is not launched due to ecam missing ?
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: no, I think it already has the code it needs compiled in. Not sure about the ACPI module, though.
<Anarchos>
OscarL the acpi is there
<OscarL>
then, I'm out of ideas, sorry.
<Anarchos>
generci_x86 was missing but i added it (in removing the if TARGET== x86) guard
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