<OscarL>
(Guess I should really try to find a cheap usb-ethernet adapter... should make using soft-KM more reliable too)
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: on the positive news... my N2600 "half-netbook" (no screen)... feels pretty stable running nightlies (currently on hrev58265). Thanks for your work. beta5 and earlier was just frustrating on this little machine.
<OscarL>
(just too bad it takes 3.5 hours for that Atom CPU to do "jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg" :-P)
<nephele>
how can i gzip something up in c++? more specifically a BJsonTextWriter output
<OscarL>
See you around folks. Have a nice evening/night/weekend.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) No idea what BGA is doing. Yes, AGMS is running the BeShare to IRC bridge, OscarL and nephele. It's just a couple of bash scripts! And BeShare and Vision.
<nephele>
funny that your couple of bash scripts are more reliable than the entirety of the matrix-irc bridge
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<nephele>
also after the gzip part aes-gcm ontop of that
<nephele>
I'm implementing sending syslogs over the network to an existing log application
<waddlesplash>
it would be neat if we did that in the kernel over UDP
<waddlesplash>
a lot of the BSD drivers have "Debugnet" support that we could also expose
<waddlesplash>
i.e. network packet output under kernel debugger
<nephele>
what do you mean by in the kernel? I am passing this to a udp socket
<waddlesplash>
from the kernel instead of from syslog_daemon
<waddlesplash>
that way we could make this work for early boot too
<nephele>
Well, I am not against *also* doing that. But i think syslog_daemon is the better place overall since I want application logs to work reliably over the network too
<nephele>
... while currently with the "stuff it all into syslog" design it becomes quite hard to seperate out say mail_server logs and such, and as a result we don't actually log them
<nephele>
waddlesplash: the protocol I am trying to be compatible with is basically stuffing one log line into JSON, gzip that and then perform aes gcm ontop of that and send it over UDP.
<nephele>
Not sure if stuff like the JSON kit is available in kernel space?
<waddlesplash>
that sounds... overcomplicated
<waddlesplash>
no, but there's some existing protocol for this in UDP, I think
<waddlesplash>
I vaguely recall there being a ticket about it
<nephele>
complcated in comparison to what?
<Habbie>
an existing protocol for what? syslog?
<nephele>
if you don't care about encryption sending it over "just json" would work too, but doesn't make much sense to go any lower than that...
<nephele>
BMessage flattened format is unsuited as it doesn't have a stable disk format just dumping memory to disk .-.
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<Begasus>
morning peeps
<|cos|>
morning! now, since i messed up my haiku machine while attempting to debug that cdn-issue...
<|cos|>
how do one easiest get a booting kernel again? booting off the live image is the first step, i presume.
<|cos|>
is it possible to chroot on haiku, or how do one actually install the bootloader in "rescue mode"?
<Begasus>
use the installer from the live image?
<Begasus>
err ...
<Begasus>
that's more high level I guess :)
<|cos|>
ah. it has such functionality? i should probably just test it instead of plotting a plan before trying. (:
<Begasus>
always backup before attempting anything :)
<Begasus>
learned the hard way a few times
<|cos|>
i wish there was something valuable to backup... my plan is to make haiku into my daily driver on sundays, as god intended with his day(?). but i'm not really there yet.
<|cos|>
Begasus: thanks for answering my ramblings!
<Begasus>
np |cos|
<Begasus>
what I would start out to do is, have a seperate partition for data, aside from the system partition
<Begasus>
keep some backups on that data partition, so if you loose some settings for instance, you can easaly recover that on a new install
<Begasus>
I even use a "second disk" in VM for this
<|cos|>
that seems like general sound advice. i kind of make sure to always make sure whatever i'm working on is synced to some server instead.
<Begasus>
+1 there, for some things I use some git repos to backup to
<Begasus>
k, KDE gear 24.12 is preparing it seems :)
<|cos|>
i practially use git for everything, and syncthing for stuff where it isn't applicable. (but last time i checked st wasn't packaged for haiku.)
<Begasus>
st*?
<Begasus[m]>
eeps ... go*
<|cos|>
syncthing is a two-way replication app written in go-lang, yes.
<Begasus[m]>
that's a no-go :)
<|cos|>
darn! i was about to ask if it was my quest to package it, but i will not be porting google's toy language.
<Begasus[m]>
go has been attempted by many, I think there is still an old version, but no updates there
<Begasus>
golang-1.4.3
<|cos|>
i'm skimming the threads and issues about it right now. i get the hunch that upstream aren't super-supportive with including haiku-patches. is that the tl;dr?
<Begasus[m]>
not sure, haven't been following it that close, if others with a lot more skills even can't handle it .... :)
<|cos|>
it seems the golang team is one of the more reasonable parts of goog. the only official interaction appears to be https://github.com/golang/go/issues/56224 which is fair enough. no actual patches for inclusion submitted.
<|cos|>
but, yeah. i'd rather write a second implementaion of syncthing in an available language than mess with golang, and even that is a project that is nowhere close to happening... guess i will need another backup strategy for haiku.
<Begasus>
there should be some that could do the trick I guess, just need to find them :)
<Begasus>
rebuilding without the linker, this could take a while, I'll grab some of the errors later nielx[m] and save them, if you are around I'll poke you again for it then :)
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] alex-w 6d9a367 - Stellarium 24.3-2: Switch to use system-provided QXlsx library (#11231)
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<nephele>
waddlesplash: concerning network log... can't the efi loaded use efi network services to also do this? ;)
<|cos|>
Finally that USB-stick finished writing, and I've booted into the live image. It sure appears like that the installer wants to re-install over my existing installation. Which I assume would remove whatever is there.
<Monni>
Installer is not meant to be used for upgrades... In most cases you only want to add new or changed hpkg files and reinstall boot loader...
<nephele>
|cos|: It will remove all installed packages and replace them with a fresh set, yes
<|cos|>
I'm quite sure the only package needed to reinstall is haiku, which I understand to be the kernel.
<nephele>
We don't have a seperate package for the kernel; haiku.hpkg contains the entire userland and kernel.
<nephele>
What problem are you trying to solve?
<|cos|>
chroot exists, but sh is only under the path /boot which does not seem to exist in my mounted system disk
<|cos|>
My system stopped booting after I tried upgrading while the cdn was broken.
<nephele>
|cos|: /boot is "the disk that was booted from", it is a semantic mountpoint. It is the same drive as the one you mounted
<nephele>
(if you had booted into the system)
<nephele>
Does it not boot in the sense that the bootloader is broken or something later is?
<nephele>
if it does boot into the bootloader just boot into an older state and upgrade that instead, it will be less trouble
<nephele>
if that doesn't work i can walk you through how you can manually copy the packages over
<nephele>
|cos|: oh, also you can't "just" chroot into the mounted disk, that can't work. Haiku packages are *mounted* not extracted, the offline version you mounted as a result does not have any packages active
<nephele>
so you can't see the system files untill you mount them manually, but there is no need to since you can just replace whatever is the faulty package instead
<nephele>
|cos|: ah okay. You deleted the haiku.hpkg file. In that case just copy it over from the live iso into /yourInstall/system/packages
<|cos|>
interesting. i should leave my unix-thinking somewhere else and start listening good.
<nephele>
just drop it into there and then try to boot *assuming* the package versions are the same
<nephele>
so the hrev57937_122-1 part has to match
<|cos|>
the package versions will likely mismatch, but i'll try to get the experience
<nephele>
if it does not match you also have to copy haiku_datatranslators and i think haiku_ something bootloader?
<nephele>
just copy all haiku_* in the case they do not match
<nephele>
and if that does not work indeed just let the installer install over it. or boot a much older state with an earlier beta5 revision
<nephele>
also: how did you delete the original haiku.hpkg? was that done in tracker or terminal?
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<Monni>
If copying haiku_* fails, most likely extra packages are installed on the system... I've only seen it happen when userland_fs is installed, but can happen with any of the optional features...
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<|cos|>
I removed the haiku package from the terminal, and once that was done `pkgman full-sync` managed to complete without errors.
<nephele>
hmm okay. That is a bit concerning, tracker atleast has protections against this.... Hmm, maybe patching in freebsd-style system-immutable flags could prevent this
<Begasus>
nielx[m] still around?
<|cos|>
My first attempt of merely copying the haiku package got me past the boot loader, but the startup seems to freeze on the initial screen after lighting the rocket.
<Begasus>
I'm guessing it's not related to rust, https://bpa.st/5G7FQ -> nielx[m]
<|cos|>
But this about booting into an older state? How would I do that?
<Monni>
Bootloader has option to select which state to boot in to...
<nephele>
|cos|: one moment, let me get the docs for you
<nephele>
Monni: doesn't really help if the haiku package is missing...
<|cos|>
are older states preserved forever? i'm fully familiar with how bootenvironments work on freebsd and illumos, but i understand this is a configuration of which hpkgs to mount rather than zfs snapshots.
<nephele>
yes, that is correct. the states to boot are *only* a text file, and when relevant acompanying older versions of packages
<nephele>
so basically
<Monni>
nephele: Before clearing the file, you can copy over the missing file from any hrev... It won't need same hrev as the old state...
<nephele>
/system/packages/ holds the current packages
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<nephele>
/system/packages/administrative/state_* hold the respective text files with info on what to mount, and the packages which were updated/disabled in the last state folder for which they were active
<nephele>
aslong as you don't delete /system/packages/administrative/state_* yourself, or have a tool do this for you the states will remain
<nephele>
my system has states going back 2023, but some people clear this every week or so. For me it's just storage so whatever, since i am not running nearly low i don't care (and this is more a problem if you often update big packages)
<nephele>
|cos|: as a result, in comparison to bootenviroments and snapshots, user data is not preserved with this at all, and no COW is going on :)
<|cos|>
on the other hand its lightweight in comparison to zfs
<nephele>
yes, but it's different tradeoffs. and when you are used to zfs something to be aware about
<|cos|>
...and now i'm irc:ing from a terminal under haiku. \o/
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<|cos|>
i have states going back to 1980, but i guess that's not really true. (:
<Monni>
I should try to learn how to start irssi from serial debugger... That would look funny...
<nephele>
empty cmos battery?
<|cos|>
most likely empty cmos battery. i unfortunately have not managed to get haiku into regular use. but i think this plan with using it on sundays might have a chance to work.
<Monni>
In 1980, I was about 1 year old ;)
<nephele>
we have a "sync time on boot" option. Now if only it worked reliably .-.
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<Monni>
sync time on boot would need network connection, but sometimes establishing network connection takes longer than booting Tracker...
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<nephele>
I don't see why you would do this in tracker tbh
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<Monni>
Tracker is only good for starting BeShare and Vision... The real work is done in Terminal ;)
<nephele>
No
<|cos|>
Here's a silly question, but it obvously kept me from irc for ten minutes. Are window manager shortcuts remappable? I find shortcuts in settings, but is there a cli tool for window/workspace operations?
<Monni>
Once I realized I can reroute serial port to named pipe in Haiku, I've used Haiku over network...
<nephele>
|cos|: I think not directly, but you can use "hey" to send bmessages to applications. If you know which application needs to receive them that could be an option
<|cos|>
maybe i should ask about the actual problem i have. how would one best switch between different fullscreen terminals? ctrl-tab only picks one of them.
<|cos|>
i've placed one per workspace now, but that seems like a workaround.
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<nephele>
ctrl-tab is a bit icky indeed. One per workspace and alt-f(N) works for that. But i guess the "easiest" way might be to use the in-terminal tabs and use alt-left alt-right
<nephele>
alt-t to open a new tab, alt-w to close one
<|cos|>
ah. it's designed for tabs. i'll stick with one terminal per workspace then. thanks for answering!
<nephele>
If you *don't* have it in fullscreen you can also use the window tabs instead
<nephele>
then it is super(win)-left super(win)-right
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<Begasus[m]>
updating 32bit VM ... this could take some time :)
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<|cos|>
i'm not really managing to restore my system, and can't fully figure out why. :(
<nephele>
|cos|: what problem are you facing now?
<|cos|>
what determines wheter a state shows up in the bootloader or not? i'm uncertain of if my attempts are booting or if it is still my broken one.
<nephele>
if the folder exists it should show up
<nephele>
"current" is the one without any states. You may need to delete the "activated_packages" file in /system/packages
<|cos|>
neither HaikuDepot or pkgman finds any updates, which is odd since this state is about a month old. but it looks for packages downloaded rather than active?
<nephele>
if you want to "update" and are in a newer state it will just pick the already-downloaded newer packages if available. no need to download them again
<|cos|>
i did one attempt at `pkgman install haiku` which created a new state, but it was lacking essentially all other packages (including wifi drivers) making it hard to recover.
<nephele>
huh? how did you determine that?
<|cos|>
the terminal gave an error about zsh not being available, using default shell instead. gvim didn't exist. diff didn't exist. network gave errors.
<nephele>
that was with installing it and then rebooting?
<|cos|>
yup. rebooting into the old known good state still works.
<nephele>
alright. What is the content of /system/packlages?
<nephele>
compare it with the content of the state file you used now
<|cos|>
is there a way to get the name of the state used while booting. i know what i believe to have booted, but that directory has 373 packages. /boot/packages/ only has 90.
<|cos|>
or perhaps 88, excluding administrative/ and broken/
<nephele>
hmm okay. Do you know which state deleted haiku.hpkg?
<nephele>
check the one before that for it's activated_packages file
<nephele>
compare it with current and see which packages are missing
<|cos|>
what bothers me most is that both folders from the of problem introduction are completely missing in the boot loader
<|cos|>
and i have eight folders from 2024-09-09, but only one show up in the bootloader
<|cos|>
nephele: when you say to compare with /system/packages, you really mean to compare with /packages, right? that seems to both match better and make more sense.
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<nephele>
Not really. /packages is a special mount point. I ment compare the list in state_whatever/activated_packages with the *.hpkg packages in /system/packages
<nephele>
/system/packages/ is the default state, so in the older state there should be more packages if you are missing some
<nephele>
Anyhow, the alternative is still letting installer just install over it and then installing packages you want again later
<nephele>
i think that should leave your user settings alone, but I am not 100% sure since installer is designed to copy over *everything* from the install medium
<|cos|>
there's no magic going on to update /system/packages to what was selected in the boot loader? that might be my big misconception. in that case i miss a lot of packages.
<nephele>
sounds plausible, yeah. If you have problems with so many system components not working
<Monni>
When booting from CD/DVD, "cp /boot/_packages_/*.hpkg /boot/system/packages/*.hpkg /Haiku1/system/packages/" should restore all missing packages...
<nephele>
Monni: _packages_ is only for optional packages
<Monni>
nephele: Yes... but if the installation is not clean, it will avoid a lot of errors during first boot
<nephele>
no it won't. It will fail to copy any actually relevant packages
<Monni>
nephele: No it won't...
<nephele>
those are optional because you don't need them during system operation
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<Monni>
nephele: You don't need them when running Installer, but Installer will install them on new drive...
<nephele>
Monni: I would apreciate if you would check before claiming such things. There are *no* haiku packages in that folder. Copying it over won't fix anything
<nephele>
The only thing you are doing is installing development tools to a broken system...
<Monni>
nephele: I have checked... and copying over both directories helped fix one of my broken installations when copying just /system/packages didn't...
<Monni>
... /_packages_ has more than just development tools...
<nephele>
copying stuff from _packages_ should never be needed for system operation
<Monni>
nephele: At least with nightlies that isn't true...
<nephele>
on nightlies there are 24 packages in there you don't need to just run the OS
<nephele>
and they are all development tools
<Monni>
I can count how many files I have there... doesn't take long to boot Haiku....
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<nephele>
anyhow. It doesn't matter. Either install the missing packages via booting the old state (and telling pkgman to do it) or boot into the installer and let it install
<|cos|>
I combined Monni's suggestion with my own understanding, and am now in a successfully booted system.
<|cos|>
gvim, zsh and stuff are still missing, but at least I seem to be on the latest kernel.
<|cos|>
thanks everyone who helped!
<Monni>
25 hpkg files in /_packages_
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<|cos|>
I skipped that part of the advise, and only copied /boot/system/packages/*hpkg
<Monni>
You can reinstall most of the missing programs when the base system is working again...
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<|cos|>
I've already reinstalled zsh, and am back to the good old "ERROR: this script is obsolete, please see git-completion.zsh" which I probably should file a bug about.
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<Begasus_32>
OK, good so far :)
<|cos|>
Guess not too many people actually use zsh on Haiku, given that error message showing up whenever launching it. (:
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<nephele>
I only use a real shell
<nephele>
/s
<nephele>
I use the same shell as android does :P
<|cos|>
i'm kind of considering using the default shell on haiku, but that would be a gradual transition. my shell config has decades of adaptations.
<Monni>
The issue with zsh and git is a known limitation... There is already a patch for it, but it might not be in Haikuports yet...
<nephele>
You can use the default shell if you want, but it's an older bash version
<nephele>
Personally I don't and just use mksh
<nephele>
and using your own (posixy) shell should be perfectly supported
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<bbjimmy>
just updated to Haiku revision: hrev58270 Oct 20 2024 06:15:19 (x86_64), all yab apps get state: Exception (Segment violation) and nextcloud spams the Deskbar tray.
<nielx[m]>
It explicitly uses functionality in libbe.so. It does seem to instruct cargo to link to libbe, but I do not recall if this method is transitory, i.e. if it is picked up by a build that consumes the crate (https://github.com/strawlab/iana-time-zone/blob/main/haiku/build.rs#L20)
<nielx[m]>
I think these link instructions form the build script might have been propagated to building crates that consume a crate, but this was not intentional and does not work any longer (looking at https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/9554)
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<Begasus_32>
thanks for reporting back nielx[m]! I'll do some investigations there too then :)
<Begasus_32>
checking some PR that nobody wants to tackle it seems ...
<nielx[m]>
The proper fix would be to have a link argument in the source of the iana-time-zone-haiku package. An intermediate solution may be to patch it in the package that you are compiling right now
<Begasus_32>
damn now I need to copy all of this :)
<Begasus_32>
for now I had it solved with cmake_exe_linker flag :)
<nielx[m]>
that's a perfect workaround :_)
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<Begasus[m]>
not sure if this would make any difference from the one in build.rs? println!("cargo:rustc-link-arg=-fopenmp");
<Begasus[m]>
only differs in lib/arg
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<nielx[m]>
I think the argument you quote there is some special linker magic (according to a quick search), and it may include a static copy of the library
<nielx[m]>
So that means it is going to be included, and will not cause linker errors when stitching all the crates together for the final binary
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] kenmays cb61e2f - nghttp2: bump to 1.63.0 (#10969)
<Begasus[m]>
maybe just keep it as is for now, not something to update that fast anyway :)
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<BiPolar>
Updated to hrev58270... now I get "sed: read error on stdin: Operation would block" and "grep: (standard input): Operation would block" (last one repeated one more time) every time I open a new Terminal. :-/
<BiPolar>
k, seems related to my custom bash prompt (one that give info about git branches).
<BiPolar>
no idea why it is complaining now.
* BiPolar
reboots earlier state to confirm it is the latest update the one that broke it.
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<BiPolar>
sure enough, on hrev58228 all works as intended.
<dovsienko>
hrev58270 kernel/fifo: honor O_NONBLOCK on open() for FIFOs
<BiPolar>
yeah
<BiPolar>
was looking at that one dovsienko (btw, hello there! OscarL in disguise here :-D)
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<cocobean>
Hello... about the FIFO commit... you can switch Haiku repo to r1beta5 (hrev57937+122) or retract to hrev58246.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Peppersawce 4062737 - Recipe for ECWolf (#11169)
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<Begasus>
there, enough PR's for today (checking) :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: thanks for your time doing PR reviews/testing/merging.
<OscarL>
Man... that hrev58270 is pretty kaput.
<cocobean>
hrev58265 is safe.
<cocobean>
Howdy
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: I think my "portable Haiku" (SATA disk on a USB adapter) has a similar problem than yours. Today I tried to boot it natively instead of in VirtualBox, but the boot loader wouldn't find a volume to boot from. In VBox it works fine though, using emulated IDE with passthrough from the host)
<jmairboeck>
I tried running checkfs, but that ran out of memory with just 4 GB of RAM. However, I did manage to complete it now by assiging more RAM to the VM.
<jmairboeck>
checkfs reported no errors, so it is a Haiku problem, not only with my system
<Begasus[m]>
jmairboeck 16GB in this laptop, that shouldn't be the issue
<Begasus[m]>
did you get "boot volume is not valid" too?
<jmairboeck>
yes, something like that I think, but this is using the BIOS loader, not EFI
<Begasus[m]>
cocobean check you PR in every way you can, had to make small adjustments to a few already checking both arch's
<OscarL>
(I ran checkfs regularly with only 2GB of RAM, but largest partition is just 20 GB)
<jmairboeck>
mine is 230 GB with about 3 million files on it (now I know ;)
<Begasus[m]>
cocobean you've been around long enough to know how to :)
<cocobean>
:)
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<Begasus[m]>
jmairboeck got webkit cloned on it? :P
<Begasus[m]>
oh well I guess texlive would be a good candidate too :D
<jmairboeck>
no, but I think two or three haikuporter "work" dirs of texlive
<Begasus[m]>
see! :)
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL no option to install ClamAV-GUI on that then (still using Qt5) :-)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I'll be getting more room soon (5 + 5 GB for 32/64 bits installs, 40 GB for HaikuPorter stuff, 2+2 GB for two more Haiku installs for testing). Still on the lean side though :-)
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<Begasus[m]>
you need to move into a bigger house soon OscarL :)
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<scantysnax>
any place i can get GameKit-specific advice/help?
<OscarL>
idualwifi7260 not working again... /me goes back to sneaker-net to test the updated intel-microcode .hpkg
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<OscarL>
scantysnax: hi! I guess you might try searching on the old Be (and Haiku) Newsletters? (if what you look for is not covered on BeBook and/or Haiku API docs).
<scantysnax>
OscarL, thanks for those links. i am having problems with sound-specific stuff in GameKit. Already have BDirectWindow going, as well as BWindowScreen for the fullscreen interface.
<OscarL>
other than that... you might try asking on the forum. maybe some "old timer" can give some insight.
<scantysnax>
i suppose.
<scantysnax>
i think i am having buffer-underruns.
<scantysnax>
yeah, i need caz jones
<Begasus[m]>
closing down here
<Begasus[m]>
cu peeps!
<scantysnax>
seeya
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<OscarL>
So... it seems that the intel microcode only gets loaded if it is present on /system/non-packaged/data/intel-ucode
<PulkoMandy>
OscarL: because it's loaded by the bootloader now. The bootloader isn't smart enough to open packages normally
<jmairboeck>
it can load the kernel from a package, how does it do that then?
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<OscarL>
Then maybe our microcode .hpkg should have a post-intall script that extracts files into non-packaged then? (otherwise, there's no indication that intel_microcode/amd_microde packages won't actually be used.
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<nephele>
PulkoMandy: To the functions you complained about me passing only one byte, those only take one byte for their arguments. And WebkitLegacy does this the same. I think this is fine since the second argument is the native keycode?
<nephele>
anyhow, I think it's hard to argue about before we can test it, and i don't even know what webkit wants to even use windows keycodes for
<nephele>
the other patches i adjusted based on your feedback, can send it to you in a bit.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] cfe81d33f1d6 - View: use `ServerLink::AttachShape`
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<nephele>
Darn... keep getting a kdl when unpluigging my thumb drive now
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<AlienSoldier>
something broke yt-dlp: 'finddir B_USER_CONFIG_DIRECTORY' failed. and WARNING: You have requested merging of multiple formats but ffmpeg is not installed. The formats won't be merged
<x512[m]>
AlienSoldier: You need to install cmd:ffmpeg .
<AlienSoldier>
x512[m] then a receip is broken because it worked before. In what package is this?
<augiedoggie>
probably caused by ticket #19195
<nephele>
AlienSoldier: do you have ffmpeg installed? what does "command -v ffmpeg" return?
<AlienSoldier>
yes it is installed
<AlienSoldier>
it say "/bin/ffmpeg"
<AlienSoldier>
Seem it might indeed be #19195, it say it is fixed in 271, i just need to wait for this to be available,