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<scantysnax>
is there a way to determine where in PCI space a device is mapped to?
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<OscarL>
mapped as in... where in memory a particular driver mapped it? or the data in the PCI config registers?
<OscarL>
scantysnax: the "Devices" app shows some data, for some devices stuff like "dma_high_address" (depends on the device in question).
<OscarL>
my "poke" replacement can show some data about PCI condig space: https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/OscarL/poke/blob/master/poke.html (search for "PCI Configuration Space I/O")
<OscarL>
("random" lines from Ellenor2000, always misterious :-)
<OscarL>
scantysnax: I haven't really tested poke on 64 bits, or made sure it plays nice with latest changes in /dev/misc/poke driver, but... basic PCI listing stuff should work (I think :-D)
<scantysnax>
okay, i'll look into it tomorrow.
<scantysnax>
not in a coding mood right now
<scantysnax>
thanks.
<OscarL>
np :-)
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<Ellenor2000>
being mysterious is how i work
<OscarL>
:-)
<OscarL>
Alright, stuff like "poke: pci 00 13 00" seems to actually work even on 64 bits. Nice. Too bad command completion seems to be broken :-/
<OscarL>
scantysnax: BTW, /var/log/syslog also contains basically the same info that you can get via my "poke" program, so... you should look at that log first :-)
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<scantysnax>
ok cool, thanks again :^)
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<phschafft>
nephele: status today?
<neoncortex>
hey, just an idea: what if there was something like firejail to isolate a running program? That may allows the system to stay single user, but have some protections.
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<nephele>
not sure what firejail is, but some isolation (or reduced permissions) is definetely something to add. Take a look at openbsd pledge() for example
<nephele>
phschafft: Probably not today
<phschafft>
nephele: ok.
<phschafft>
> Firejail is a SUID sandbox program that reduces the risk of security breaches by restricting the running environment of untrusted applications using Linux namespaces, seccomp-bpf and Linux capabilities.
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<nephele>
I like that gnome-web uses linux namespaces (with bubblewrap) to isolate webkit processes, but without any user involvement. That's the kind of security i mainly want
<nephele>
restricting stuff primarily that is obviously wrong
<phschafft>
what kind of namespaces does it use?
<nephele>
Not sure
<neoncortex>
pledge seems interesting, very cool.
<Habbie>
pledge strikes an amazing balance between security and usability
<phschafft>
does it?
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<Habbie>
well, in my opinion, yes :)
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<neoncortex>
a slly question: how do I do to build a find query that search for a file, named tags, and verify if that file contains a specific string?
<nephele_xmpp>
querries don't check file contents, only attributes
<neoncortex>
oh.
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<HaikuUser2>
helo
<|cos|>
This is an embarrasing question, but since I can't figure it out; What packages are needed for a working C compiler on Haiku?
<|cos|>
I've got, and am able to launch, gcc, clang (13) and clang-18. All three puke on hello.c due to not finding stdio.h
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<jmairboeck>
|cos|: you are probably missing haiku_devel (or haiku_x86_devel on 32 bit x86)
<jmairboeck>
the C standard headers are provided by Haiku itself
<|cos|>
jmairboeck: that was it. thanks!
<|cos|>
Even if searching for the package name verbatim in HaikuDepot, it fails to show up. Is that as expected? (pkgman found it though)
<jmairboeck>
devel packages aren't displayed by default
<nephele_xmpp>
you have disabled devlopment packages above in the menu
<|cos|>
Ah! I really should be staying in the terminal... It never occured to me that there could even be such an option.
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<Begasus[m]>
jmairboeck any comments left for clisp PR? So far looks good to me
<Begasus[m]>
doing a check on 64bit for the full KF6 frameworks update, so can't check there, 32bit went fine
<Begasus[m]>
oh, maybe add a debug package to the list? ;)
<Begasus>
less then 8KiB, maybe shouldn't bother ...
<jmairboeck>
I didn't check it either (still busy with perl recipes for biber ;)
<OscarL>
Mmm, given that Pe doesn't has lisp support, perhaps s/vi/nano/ would have been better? No biggie though.
<OscarL>
on the other hand... might motivate a lisper to contribute a syntax-highlighter to Pe :-D
<jmairboeck>
I was wondering if using lpe would be more correct (depending on what clisp expects)
<OscarL>
that too, yes.
<jmairboeck>
but as I said, I didn't test it
<OscarL>
reminds me that I should see about adding "--diff file1 file2" support to lpe.
<Begasus[m]>
wb OscarL :)
<OscarL>
thanks :-)
<Begasus[m]>
there probably be a follow up on clisp, be sure to comment there OscarL
<OscarL>
Will do.
<Begasus[m]>
ps, there is vi support it seems, even emacs, but didn't see nano in the package referenced
<OscarL>
I would prolly suggest to just include the rest of the modules (as the dependencies are already there, from what I can see).
<OscarL>
just mentioned nano because it seems to have wider syntax support than Pe at least, and I never use vi :-)
<Begasus[m]>
something mentioned in the readme (iirc) that if you link clisp to ~/config/non-packaged/bin/lisp emacs would be happy without changes (as I don't know how to, didn't test that) :)
<Begasus[m]>
don't use vi here also
<Begasus>
OscarL, for the other modules some extra devel packages are needed
<OscarL>
ah, ok.
<jmairboeck>
I mostly use vim in Terminal for my haikuports work ;)
<Monni>
vi/vim is for people who lived in stoneage, when the screens were just 1 line high...
<Monni>
I was born in the era when nano was still called pico...
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<jmairboeck>
Monni: that's ed or ex you are referring to, vi makes use of the full screen :)
* augiedoggie
thinks calling lpe would've been better than Pe in that lisp recipe
<Monni>
jmairboeck: It does, but arrow keys work differently than in modern application...
<jmairboeck>
I mostly use the arrow keys and not hjkl
<jmairboeck>
but I use vim, not the original vi
<jmairboeck>
arrow keys work just fine
<Monni>
When I was little, pico was developed for writing e-mails, thus being default editor for pine (now alpine)
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<Monni>
Back then there was distinction between line editors and full-text editors... vi is closer to line editor than to full-text editor...
<|cos|>
I'm missing the bind(2) manual page. Could it be installed, or should one look for such documentation elsewhere on Haiku?
<OscarL>
I'm slowly working on porting and improving a very simple plain-text editor with CUA-keybindings. Working pretty well so far, but I need to fix some missing escape sequences on Terminal to support CTL+SHIFT+{PgUp,PgDn} to extend selection, and such.
<augiedoggie>
do you have the man_pages_posix package installed?
<OscarL>
(finaly being able to SHIFT+{Home,End} to select feels pretty good :-))
<|cos|>
augiedoggie: I do now, and it seems it gave me some kind of generic manual page rather than a Haiku-specific one. Thanks for getting me that far!
* |cos|
is making an attempt at building GNU screen. I yoloed patched a few lines and got a binary. That one fails with "Invalid argument" when creating the socket.
<Monni>
Having Haiku-specific documentation would require constant maintaining... Some parts change rarely, but some parts almost daily...
<OscarL>
best I've seen (and done) is `sed` being called on man-pages to reflect Haiku specific paths :-)
<|cos|>
Monni: Understood. I wasn't really expecting it to be available, but one needs to start asking.
<Monni>
A lot of long-time developers have never created or edited a man page...
* OscarL
is more of an "info" man :-P
<Monni>
I prefer plain text documentation or html formatted...
<OscarL>
Man... I remember a time when I used to devour documentation. I think I've read most of Delphi's .hlp content (except the win32 reference) back in < 2000 :-)
<OscarL>
Now I barely read my own Readme.txt :-P
<Monni>
I never used Delphi, Only Turbo Pascal ;)
<Monni>
I only need my own notes, when I need to recombine my private key with a new e-mail certificate...
<OscarL>
Running Delphi 1 on a 486 SX with 4 MB of RAM was a good incentive to proof-read the code before calling the compiler.
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* |cos|
gets completely lost in get_stack_interface_module() in src/system/kernel/fs/socket.cpp, if not before...
<|cos|>
Haiku should support unix domain sockets, I suppose? (given that `find / -type s` returns non-empty)
<Monni>
OscarL: In the old days I was still using 386 SX... Basically lowest usable processor... I'm pretty sure my home PC is running something like AMD K6-2...
<OscarL>
my first PC was an AMD 386 SX :-) had to load emu87 to be able to run AutoCAD 10 on the poor thing :-)
<OscarL>
(originally I only had 1 MB of RAM, and no HDD... then got way overpriced 4 MB and a 640 MB HDD in 1996)
<phschafft>
my first one was a 286, with 640KB RAM.
<phschafft>
got one floppy drive. no HDD or fancy stuff.
<OscarL>
a friend of mine was still rocking a 286, and controlling a robotic arm via parallel port. Some people are just that cool :-)
<Monni>
My first one was NEC V20...
<OscarL>
(friend had an 286 in 1996 I mean)
<Monni>
I had a 286 that caught on fire... it was too packed already from the factory...
<OscarL>
yes! managed to some a silly issue that was bugging me with Pe. /me does a little dance.
<OscarL>
s/to some a/to fix a/
<phschafft>
very strange stuff.
<phschafft>
this week I soild someone a laptop.
<phschafft>
he was very positive that I found one for him with both optical drive *AND* a 9-pin serial port. and it was still like 10 years forward compared to his old lenovo.
<OscarL>
(but... mmm but I still need to figure out a follow up issue... sigh)
<OscarL>
phschafft: is that sold, soiled, or both? :-D
<phschafft>
em. sold.
<phschafft>
;)
<OscarL>
proper RS-232 would be sweet to have on a netbook. but given the trend of not even including an ethernet port... usb dongles galore! (yikes)
* OscarL
needs conditional compilation on .r (rez) sources :-(
<phschafft>
I hardly use RS-232 for anything. before I started with brotkasten-1 I think the last time I used a RS-232 was like in the 90s.
<phschafft>
be he uses that to upcycle radios that reached their end of service life
<OscarL>
I was using RS-232 daily till 2014 while doing QA and QA automation for firmware for Point-Of-Sale printers/controllers.
<scantysnax>
my oscilloscope has rs-232, i actually used it to update the firmware to that of a 100MHz model
<scantysnax>
both 50MHz and 100MHz scopes use the same hardware.
<phschafft>
have you messured the hardware can handle the higher range?
<scantysnax>
yes, we used (i was at school workign with a professor) a function generator to look at signals before and after
<phschafft>
many of those devices are selected by the vendor for the different classes. so in many cases you can't just get a free upgrade that way.
<scantysnax>
we had the pictures on a usb drive (scope does usb, as well) which one day seemed to have disappeared.
<phschafft>
however if you actually checked, it's fine. :)
<scantysnax>
yeah, it was a fun hack.
<phschafft>
:)
<scantysnax>
i used to work in the engineering lab at my school, i had a lot of fun messing around during my free time.
<scantysnax>
also got a ton of free parts, mostly resistors.
<phschafft>
when I got my new one (rated 100MHz) I tested it. up to 100MHz it seems to be virtually perfect. up to 200MHz you hardly notice a difference. between 200MHz and 400MHz the signal gets a little bumpy. and 400MHz zu 500MHz is more about signal detection than taking any useful value from the signal.
<scantysnax>
wow, i never used a scope that went so high.
<phschafft>
at 480MHz the frequency meter reported the signal with +/- 5MHz
<scantysnax>
tektronix?
<phschafft>
I mean that is 4.8 times outside it's official range!
<scantysnax>
yeah, that's some good bandwidth.
<phschafft>
OWON SDS1102
<scantysnax>
ah okay.
<scantysnax>
i've heard of them
<phschafft>
was the chepeast one in the 100MHz range at the eletronic disconter.
<scantysnax>
well, if you are a hobbyist, you don't need the most fancy equipment.
<phschafft>
yes. and I mean this one is like 10 time better than the higest end hardware my father has ever seen in his job ;)
<scantysnax>
haha nice.
<phschafft>
recently I have seen someone experiment with a different type of sampling. he home build a scope that managed about 8GHz for 100 $moneyunits.
<scantysnax>
and how much is a moneyunit?
<phschafft>
it has very limited trigger options (inherently), but it could maybe added as a mode to the hacker community style devices.
<phschafft>
over here one money unit is 1 euro. I hear it is different in other places ;)
<scantysnax>
i see.
<scantysnax>
that's pretty cheap.
<phschafft>
I mean if you get a nice case for it and some controllers for a bit more fancy firmware you maybe need double that. but hey, for 8GHz that is like nothing.
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<scantysnax>
indeed.
<phschafft>
and it could likely be combined into eletronically into equidistant baseband sampling one. kind of as an additonal mode.
<|cos|>
Would anyone have any idea on how to find a fixed-width font containing ⤶ (UTF8: e2a4b6) in Haiku?
<|cos|>
The replacement character doesn't look great as the EOL marker in vim...
<scantysnax>
i need a cheap, but good DC Power supply, any suggetions?
<phschafft>
scantysnax: which range?
<scantysnax>
something adjustable... HV preferred (up to 300V or so)
<phschafft>
hm, no. mine is up to 30V, and I have another modular/historical one up to 2kV.
<Skipp_OSX>
I was very young when the family had an 8088 and 286 and only remember not liking them very much because they couldn't play any good games that I wanted to play. Then the family got a 386 dx 25 and a 14.k modem and it was amazing.
<scantysnax>
30V would be okay, actually.
<Skipp_OSX>
Still I played a lot of games on the 286 with CGA graphics: Drakkhen, Buddakan, Chuck Yeager
<scantysnax>
phschafft, any suggestions for up to 30V?
<Skipp_OSX>
I distinctly remember Drakkhen had no VGA version at the time so it was before 1990 or I just didn't know about the VGA version.
<Skipp_OSX>
I only had a CGA card so it barely mattered whether the VGA existed at the time or not
<phschafft>
scantysnax: I have a PeakTech 6226, it does 10A. it outputs a nice DC with no high frequency noise.
<phschafft>
one of my encoders broke. the current limit doesn't work below 100mA.
<phschafft>
it is get-what-you-paid-for.
<phschafft>
it is mainly in operation to run radios on 13.8V, doing that very nicely.
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<scantysnax>
gotcha.
<scantysnax>
thanks.
<scantysnax>
ok they aren't *that* expensive. i need multiple outputs, however.
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<phschafft>
there is a large range of options. also keep in mind that I just tell my personal experiences here. In no way do I recommend any of those devices.
<scantysnax>
understood.
<scantysnax>
too many things to save up for... :-(
<scantysnax>
not really working with large currents right now, so I have a small DC 5V/12V supply that seems like it could do an amp or 2
<phschafft>
I mean my personal lab is also like 10 years of getting parts.
<scantysnax>
yeah, i had a personal space in the basement of our old house, it was great.
<phschafft>
I think that for an 'hobist' I have a good lab. but still it's 10 years of building it.
<scantysnax>
now i'm in an apartment with little extra space.
<phschafft>
hm.
<scantysnax>
yeah, can only have one project on the bench at a time.
<phschafft>
I know that feeling.
<phschafft>
the only good side for me is that my work desk is directly next to it. so I have like the office resources as well.
<phschafft>
e.g. the scope is directly connected to my work PC.
<scantysnax>
ah cool.
<phschafft>
got a little script that basically makes a plot of what is on the screen.
<phschafft>
with gnuplot :)
<scantysnax>
neat
<phschafft>
that is very nice. just hit a button and having saved the raw values + a rendering.
<scantysnax>
yeah, that's convenient
<phschafft>
the only thing is that my new function generator seems to have a broken USB interface. it doesn't react to any commands.
<phschafft>
and the old one (that predates like computers ;) has a broken power supply. :(
<scantysnax>
boo. :-(
<phschafft>
the voltages are all ~5V off. I think some reference died.
<phschafft>
but all parts in there are older then me, so it is hard for my generation to fix it. maybe a older friend of mine could have a look. but I fear that is for another day.
<phschafft>
the old function generator also had a special DC mode, was very nice for testing like LEDs. as it can limit below 100mA ;)
<scantysnax>
nice :)
<phschafft>
it has a 7 segment display with incandescent bulbs!
<scantysnax>
wow, that is old.
<phschafft>
it has an ATX size board just for the logic for that display.
<Anarchos>
helllo
<scantysnax>
does it predate 74 series logic?
<phschafft>
EHLO Anarchos
<Anarchos>
phschafft still no luck with building a x86 haiku on my x64
<Monni>
Tried booting my old PC, but the BIOS battery is too dead... Gotta wait for morning before I can disassemble it and replace... Doesn't remember the boot drive even while running...
<phschafft>
scantysnax: not sure. it has some DIP logic ICs. but most ICs are the round ones in matal cap.
<scantysnax>
ah
<phschafft>
Anarchos: I'm sorry to hear.
<phschafft>
scantysnax: but it also has a lot of them. so whatever chips that are, they must be like simple gates, no complex stuff.
<scantysnax>
would be interesting to look at.
<phschafft>
Monni: one had that were the bios battery shorted the corresponding power rail. so maybe just removing it could fix it.
<Anarchos>
phschafft yes, i can't understand what is missing
<Anarchos>
here is my configure command :
<Anarchos>
../configure --cross-tools-source ../../buildtools --build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 --build-cross-tools x86 --cross-tools-prefix /boot/home/HAIKU/haiku/generated.x86/cross-tools-x86/bin/i586-pc-haiku-
<Monni>
phschafft: I can get it as far as loading SCSI BIOS, but then it just fails...
<phschafft>
sadly I need to leave you now. otherwise no dinner and a very angry flatmate. ;)
<phschafft>
Anarchos: that is always the worst. when you have like no perspective/no idea what to try next.
<phschafft>
scantysnax: maybe one day :)
<|cos|>
It seems running FontBoy was the answer to my question.
<|cos|>
Guess the right question would had been whether the Haiku vim port can have fallback fonts for missing glyphs. It seems it can not, from no mention in docs and no success on reasonable attempts.
<nephele_xmpp>
is it native gui or terminal?
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<|cos|>
gui.
<nephele>
The native haiku gui has font fallbacks build in
<nephele>
so if this uses native apis font fallback should work
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<|cos|>
nephele: thanks. i'm trying to understand the vim haiku gui code, but find it hard to read any code without a language server.
<nephele>
If you want i can take a look. But if it's native haiku code don't expect to see any font fallback in vim, it's all in the application server
<|cos|>
nephele: thanks. it can probably wait to someother week, though. i'm starting to get an headache and blurry eyes.
<nephele>
what is the problem you want to solve anyhow?
<|cos|>
i want to use my .vimrc on haiku, with as much functionaliry as possible. that unicode character is my preferred end-of-line marker.
<nephele>
and it's not present in haikus fonts?
<nephele>
what's the character?
<|cos|>
I found it in a few fonts, but none which I want to use as my primary font. ⤶ (UTF8: e2a4b6)
<|cos|>
Symbola would likely be the best fallback, given that per-glyph fallback is possible.
<nephele>
is that a private use area?
<nephele>
hmm, now those start with f
<nephele>
wondering, since charactermap does not seem to have a block for it. but that may be based on old unicode data
<|cos|>
the e2a4b6 is the utf8 representation, not the unicode char
<|cos|>
*unicode character point
<nephele>
oh... that confused me
<nephele>
What is the char?
<|cos|>
it might perhaps be \u2936, but i'm still hunting for the knowledge
<nephele>
⤶
<nephele>
but the ones right preceding that are available ⤴ and ⤵
<|cos|>
"The Unicode character "⤶", or U+2936, is known as the "Arrow Pointing Downwards Then Curving Leftwards". This character falls under the "Supplemental Arrows-B" block and is classified under the "Symbol, Math" category in the Unicode standard."
<|cos|>
you see why i want it as my end-of-line char...
<nephele>
Yeah, it's not available in any font haiku ships currently
<PulkoMandy>
Is it in one of the noto fonts we don't package yet?
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I don't know. But even then it would not be in the fallback
<PulkoMandy>
Yes
<|cos|>
nephele: It is in Symbola and Unifont.
<nephele>
Do we have any tools ported we can use to manipulate font files with? remove duplicates and make a noto derives haiku-symbols font that doesn't require installing 5 fonts
<PulkoMandy>
There are some other similar symbols in unicode: ↩ ↵ ⏎ maybe we have one of them?
<nephele>
we have two of those in the fallback according to my Vision here
<nephele>
⏎↩
<|cos|>
⏎ is nice! that one might even become my preferred, if it looks nice on other platforms too. thanks!
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<Anarchos>
who can help me to configure a haiku build ?
<nephele>
still stuck on the 32bit build?
<Anarchos>
nephele yes unfortunately
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<PulkoMandy>
Building a 32bit haiku while running a 64bit one? I'm not sure if anyone tried this
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i need it cause the pxe boot works only in 32bits.
<PulkoMandy>
Anarchos: You are trying to build 32bit without gcc2, if it tries touse gcc 5.4
<PulkoMandy>
This will not work for sure, maybe a hybrid build (gcc2+gcc13) can work
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<PulkoMandy>
nephele: The missing character 2936 is in Noto Sans Math, is that not part of the fallback set?
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<Skipp_OSX>
Noto Sans and Noto Sans Thai afaik
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<nephele>
No, it isn't. And like noto emoji also not installed by default
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i tried this one : ./configure --cross-tools-source ../../buildtools --build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 --build-cross-tools x86 --cross-tools-prefix /boot/home/HAIKU/haiku/generated.x86/cross-tools-x86/bin/i586-pc-haiku-
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<PulkoMandy>
Mixing build-cross-tools and cross-tools-prefix? You should not need both
<nephele>
noto math also seems to be unavailable in haikuports
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i have no idea how to do , so i tested things ...
<PulkoMandy>
The instructions here should work, and if they don't, it probably won't help to add other compiler flags
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<PulkoMandy>
So, remove your generated.x86 directory anddo this: mkdir generated.x86; cd generated.x86
<PulkoMandy>
../configure --cross-tools-source ../../buildtools --build-cross-tools x86_gcc2 --build-cross-tools x86
<nephele>
the instructions there don't document anything for 64bit haiku, but yesterday i pointed at the instructions for non-haiku and "working in a clean dir"
<jmairboeck>
I think waddlesplash once mentioned that gcc2 can't be built on 64 bit, so you'd need to build that as 32 bit, which isn't supported on 64 bit Haiku. I once patched that in build/scripts/build_cross_tools, I got a build of gcc2 that could compile something, but I didn't try to run the result, so I'm not sure if it would work.
<jmairboeck>
Anarchos: I think you need to remove the "-m32" flag there, maybe it works then
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i already tried
<nephele>
try jmairboeck's suggestion
<Anarchos>
well i won't mess anymore with non standard builds.... i just found an old laptop running x86_gcc2 !
<nephele>
you can install 32bit haiku on 64bit hardware
<nephele>
just 64bit efi for 32bit haiku doesn't work atm
<nephele>
32bit efi haiku
<nephele>
but i can understand that, someone knowledgeable with the build might take a look and fix that usecase :)
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<Anarchos>
nephele my goal is just to polish a patch for PXE boot 32bits...
<jmairboeck>
If gcc2 really is broken when built as 64 bit, then the only real fix would be to enable -m32 for x86_64 gcc 13, and allow 32 bit userland on 64 bit kernels.
<nephele>
not sure why we need a 32bit userland for a build wanting to produce 32bit executables
<jmairboeck>
so that a 32 bit build of gcc2 can be run on it
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck not sure cross compiling work like that ...
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<jmairboeck>
otherwise you could just build gcc2 but not build Haiku with it then
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<nephele>
PulkoMandy: have you aplied for a fosdem stand?
<PulkoMandy>
Not yet
<PulkoMandy>
You can check with mmu_man, I'm not sure if he did it already
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<nephele>
Don't have his email, but can probably figure it out to ask
<nephele>
just wanted to note that I am probably available
<PulkoMandy>
Good to know, as mmu_man may be helping with the retrocomputing devroom
<PulkoMandy>
Do you need a place to stay? The last few years I was there I rented an airbnb for all of us (mmu_man, oco, and in 2020 also preetpal kaur who participated in outreachy) and we can do a coding sprint if there are enough interested people
<PulkoMandy>
I will be more available next week, at the moment I'm doing a bike trip accross france
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<nephele>
Hmm, the last two times i went i rented a youth hostel in bruegel. Currently that is still available. But i might bring two people who are not involved in haiku too
<nephele>
So if that is fine then a your suggestion would be good for me :)
<PulkoMandy>
if we can find a place with enough beds :)
<nephele>
So I will come in any case, for the two others it is not yet sure. But alternatively I will try to get a room at the hostel again
<nephele>
coding sprint sounds good aswell
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