<Sark>
Wow. I really, really, REALLY broke something. I don't even remember what I clicked on, but I managed to get Web to crash so badly that I can't even launch it at all. I have even tried uninstalling, deleting the cache directory, everything relating to "epiphany" in the config directory, and reinstalling... Crashes immediately.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I'll probably be spending Christmas updating my BeShare to IRC bridge to use R1B4, which also means updating my custom scriptable Vision IRC client fork with a newer version.
<Sark>
OK, that got it back, replaced the entire home directory with an empty one. Some settings file somewhere got corrupted maybe? Dunno, seems to be working.
<B2IA>
(Sark) This is a test.
<B2IA>
(Sark) Ah hah! Neat :)
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<Androo>
I get a nice KDL when trying to run beta4 in VirtualBox, seemingly related to "AT Keyboard 1 watcher". Anyone seen this?
<waddlesplash>
there is a ticket about this somewhere, yes
<Androo>
Ah, seems if I give VirtualBox more than one core, this crash goes away. Ticket #17852. Performance seems severely degraded since last time I tried Haiku+VBox. <goes to install this natively>
<waddlesplash>
vbox really isn't great on many levels, it's kind of a pain to debug when things go sideways in ways they don't elsewhere
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<waddlesplash>
qemu-kvm and vmware are much better
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Huhh, what? Keyboard not working in VirtualBox - I'll bump into that for sure. Though if I use VNC to remotely type, that could work. And Haiku performance is known to be typically slower if you have more than one core in VirtualBox.
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<Sark>
Slower on more than one core? How does that happen?
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<waddlesplash>
Sark: because inter-cpu interrupts are VERY slow on VirtualBox
<waddlesplash>
causes unknown, no other VM has this problem
<OscarL>
Managed to add an option to Pe to start in "Find differences" mode, when invoked like this: "Pe --diff file1 file2"... The code needs some clean up, but I'm really happy. I always wanted that feature, and if it was there somewhere already... I'd missed it entirely :-D
<Begasus>
Nice :)
<OscarL>
Now thinking of adding an option to PonpokoDiff to call Pe that way. But that will be after I get some sleep.
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<Begasus>
gutenprint ready?
<OscarL>
For my part, yes, and korli approved the PR. Not sure how it will affect the Haiku side of things thou
<OscarL>
As if the name of the package changes, I think that Haiku's sources need to be updated to reflect that (otherwise they would not find the package to build the gutenprint printer addon.
<OscarL>
Looking at the second one, seems that if gutenprint gets updated without moding that file... the build will just disable the gutenprint printer addon.
<OscarL>
So... not the end of the world, but.. something we would want to avoid :-D
<Begasus>
I tend to keep away from the major ones if not needed (or ask for reviews)
<OscarL>
Indeed.
<OscarL>
Anyway, time for me to git the bed.... I *think* that after almost 3 years, either covid, or the flu, finally got me. Hopefully is just a summer cold, but... every muscle hurts :-D
<Begasus>
atm going through recipes for the static libraries, those shouldn't be so hard
<Begasus>
k, take a good nap! :)
<OscarL>
Best wishes Begasus! Happy holidays for you, and everyone else here!
<Begasus>
Same to you OscarL all the best!
<OscarL>
Will do, Bye!
<Begasus>
Cu
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<x512[m]>
g-object introspection support was recently added to GTK port.
<Begasus>
x512[m], harfbuzz has no support for it (it was disabled before)
<Begasus>
but since gtk3 got support needed to add the configure option
<nephele>
Happy release :D
<x512[m]>
It can be complicated because harfbuzz is Haiku core dependency.
<Begasus>
right, not going there yet x512[m] :)
<x512[m]>
And glib must not be Haiku core dependency.
<Begasus>
congrats to the core devs!
<Begasus>
I'll leave that up to you core devs :)
<Begasus>
hmm ... looking at the harfbuzz recent changes it could be possible, for gtkspell3
<Begasus>
re-check in a bit
<Begasus>
building guile and fftw atm
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<Begasus>
New binky's :P
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<matt3>
view irc xD
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<n0toose[m]>
is it just me, or is this the same person joining, saying things that are a bit "off", and leaving?
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<n0toose[m]>
don't have much of a problem with it, it seems jolly and a bit irreverent in a positive sense to me :D
<Begasus>
just you n0toose[m] ;)
<n0toose[m]>
really? i remember a person from italy that had the same typing style and everything, but they went under a different nick
<Begasus>
same person
<n0toose[m]>
i have a bunch of questions that are still unanswered, but maybe going after some answers will ruin the magic of it
<Begasus>
ps, was just kidding before :)
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<nephele>
holy! I've never seen vision crash so much :'(
<badkeming[m]>
n0toose: /ignore is your friend.
<n0toose[m]>
yep, got that, was kind of surprised to hear that and then i realized that i can't have been the only person to have read the logs
<Begasus>
no issues here so far nephele
<n0toose[m]>
ermo: I don't have a problem with it, am just curious :D
<nephele>
Begasus: got it very often when using context menu on the new beta4 :)
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<Begasus>
no idea there nephele :)
<Begasus>
I mostly use it to copy/paste over to the other me's :)
<Begasus>
ps, anyone could do a quick test to see if they can start a build with a recipe that is using a "tar.lz" archive?
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<Begasus>
no need for a build, just "hp * -b" should be enough
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<PulkoMandy>
n0toose[m]: yes there is this strange but generally harmless person (in fact I think we have several of those, all in different styles). No one understand them so no one replies, I guess?
<n0toose[m]>
it is just one person, swear to god! PulkoMandy
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, this one is. There are others in different styles :)
<Kai[m]>
Congrats on the new beta, and happy holidays to those who celebrate
<Begasus>
k, seems it needs cmd:lzip to be installed
<Begasus>
flaw in haikuporter?
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<matt3>
mystical visions irc ... xD
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<Begasus>
bbl
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<x512[m]>
Mystical matt3...
<n0toose[m]>
Ka: lovely profile picture lol
<n0toose[m]>
meant Kai
<n0toose[m]>
i typed that quite instinctively and forgot that 99% of the people here don't use matrix, awkward :D
<n0toose[m]>
random question: i have been writing a microkernel in rust using this resource: os.phil-opp.com and have been wondering where does rust begin and end in haiku
<n0toose[m]>
as in, just a userspace application or
<n0toose[m]>
(as far as the potential/the 'what we could possibly do's' are concerned)
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<Kai[m]>
n0toose[m]: Thx :D
<x512[m]>
Rust is not well suited for Haiku because it is incompatible with C++ ABI.
<HaikuUser2>
heyho (from haiku r1b4) :)
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<x512[m]>
It should be possible to make Haiku kernel add-ons with Rust if it can to compile to shared library that not depends on Rust runtime.
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<nielx[m]>
I tried compiling a rust kernel module a while a go, but I got stuck figuring out the intricacies of linker scripts for the kernel
<nielx[m]>
I kept getting errors loading the generated module
<n0toose[m]>
o/ HaikuUser2
<x512[m]>
Linker script should be not needed for Haiku kernel add-on. Just regular shared library.
<x512[m]>
But it can't have any dynamic dependencies except kernel.
<nielx[m]>
Maybe, but there are some funky things going on in how things are laid out in the resulting elf output, which I did not manage to replicate exactly.
<nielx[m]>
Should not be impossible though, just needs someone with more time and motivation :-)
<x512[m]>
Kernel ELF loader have limitation that no more than 2 PT_LOAD segments are supported.
<x512[m]>
It can cause troubles with ld.lld linker with default options.
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<nielx[m]>
I tried replicating the linker flags that Jam adds for kernel modules
<nielx[m]>
I still think that's where something might have gone wrong
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<x512[m]>
nielx: Sample of ELF file is needed.
<nielx[m]>
sorry too long ago, I doubt I still have the notes/files from that attempt. So will need a fresh try anyway :-)
<nielx[m]>
I'm currently working on making a recent Rust build available for Haiku
<B2IA>
(Sark) This isn't strictly an OS problem, but trying to use Haiku for some Python stuff, I get errors trying to install pycryptodome relating to EINVAL being undefined and I don't know if it's just me doing something wrong and missing a prerequisite or something. - https://pastebin.com/f0SXPFLc
<n0toose[m]>
out of curiosity: would replacing jam with clang -- completely hypothetically -- i would not bother -- be completely unacceptable regardless of how well the actual integration
<n0toose[m]>
asking out of curiosity
<x512[m]>
jam and clang are different things. jam is build system cang clang is compiler.
<x512[m]>
alternatives to jam are make, ninja, cmake, meson.
<devyl_>
does fusesmb still work?
<devyl_>
do someone using it?
<n0toose[m]>
sorry, s/clang/cmake/
<x512[m]>
I prefer meson over cmake. It is easier, durable and more readable.
<x512[m]>
I made some experiment with writing Meson build scripts to compile libbe.so.
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<PulkoMandy>
I have nothing against Rust but Haiku as it is now is very tied to C++, and so is most of the devteam. So if you submitted code in Rust, I couldn't review it, I would have no idea if it's good or not. It's better to keep the project a single language, even if it's not the best language
<PulkoMandy>
Especially in the case of Haiku, where one of the selling points is "one team in charge of everything", mixing several languages doesn't seem like a great idea
<PulkoMandy>
As for buildsystem, people keep saying we should us.cmake but no one actually tried. I think our build setup is too complex for cmake to handle, we have 3 different compilers in a single build for example (for tools running on the host system+gcc2+gcc11)
<x512[m]>
I may publish my Meson attempts for Haiku building.
<x512[m]>
It should be possible to use Meson for whole Haiku, but it will need multiple configurations (regular code, kernel code, boot loader code, gcc2 code) and some meta build system to control multiple build configurations.
<B2IA>
(Shaka) Congratulations to All the Dev's and Contributors who helped make R1Beta4 possible!
<PulkoMandy>
Or to word it differently, our buildsystem is hard to understand, not because we use jam, but because we need to do quite complex things there (besides compilers: bits of code in assembler, extended attributes, bios code built in 32bit mode, generating complete filesystem and disk images, …)
<PulkoMandy>
So you can experiment with cmake but I doubt you will manage to make things any simpler
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<x512[m]>
Meson have cross compile definition files support that can be used for kernel code for example.
<x512[m]>
It is also possible to leave Jam for meta build system and use Meson for all C/C++/asm code.
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<PulkoMandy>
Maybe with Meson it's possiblo, I don't have experience with it. Still I don't know if it would make anything simpler
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<x512[m]>
It will make building/linking code much simpler.
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<x512[m]>
But Meson itself can't handle multiple build configurations. So something is needed that will call "meson configure" for regular code, kernel code, boot loader etc..
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<n0toose[m]>
thanks for the additional context ^^
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<nintendo1889>
OscarL: look into Bates exercise for strenghtening the eyes. They do help.
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<waddlesplash>
anyone noticed any that aren't linked from there?
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<Vidrep_64>
Hi waddlesplash
<Vidrep_64>
I just had that app_server crash again. I created a new ticket on trac for it
<waddlesplash>
yep, it's a font bug as I expected
<waddlesplash>
there were just a lot of changes in that area for the new webfont support
<waddlesplash>
unsurprisng that we didn't get it right the first time, it's a tricky spot
<Vidrep_64>
Not sure if it should be a WebPositive ticket or an app_server ticket.
<waddlesplash>
app_server
<waddlesplash>
I just moved it around
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<win8linux[m]>
<waddlesplash> "https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/R1..."; <- Since there's a Hacker News link in that page, then reddit has to be included too:
<win8linux[m]>
<rennj> "what m.reddit.com begat" <- There's also i.reddit.com, which is the older mobile Reddit UI.
<rennj>
yeah i dont browse on phone..
<win8linux[m]>
I like it better than regular Reddit on mobile web.
<rennj>
phone/spy device isnt work much more than phone calls and txt..perhaps the calc app
<rennj>
phone/spy device isnt worth much more than phone calls and txt..perhaps the calc app
<win8linux[m]>
Less annoying by not promoting the mobile app at all and not sluggish.
<Sark>
I very rarely use Reddit on the phone, but even there, I find the old reddit desktop site to work SO much better and be way easier to use.
<Sark>
What is it with the modern trend of wasting as much screen space as possible by making all the text giant with tons of white space?
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<rennj>
the unwashed masses moved on to phones,
<rennj>
program to least common denominator, the phone
<rennj>
and the canvas fingerprinting ...heh what gpu,uuid,phone model, gps location..all that cool shit...
<rennj>
cause javascript just rocks..
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<rennj>
Tor Project reference documentation states, "After plugins and plugin-provided information, we believe that the HTML5 Canvas is the single largest fingerprinting threat browsers face today."
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<rennj>
i guess links/lynx in termux might not be so bad
<Sark>
Well, I understand phones but why make everything giant?!?! It's even worse on phones because they have such small screens.
<Sark>
Stuff needs to be smaller and closer together so you can actually get usable information on the screen.
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<Begasus>
Think I got the best x-mas present ever
<Begasus>
Portret of one of our dogs
<nielx[m]>
pic!
<Begasus>
heading down here now, g'night peeps and have a merry x-mas for those enjoying it
<Begasus>
tomorrow nielx[m]
<Begasus>
cu!
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there!
<andreasdr[m]>
Happy XMAS
<x512[m]>
rennj: Adding Haiku to user agent is very significant fingerprint.
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<nephele>
hi
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi nephele, hi x512
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<nephele>
good day andreasdr[m]
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<andreasdr[m]>
Arrrrr
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<B2IA>
(Shaka_R5) Merry Christmas to All from BeOS R5!
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<st3fan>
I guess I'm out of luck with a GK104 / GeForce GTX 760?
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<st3fan>
Can anyone recommend a cheap video card that would give me 4K at 2.0 HiDPI that works well enough to get going with Haiku?
<st3fan>
I guess I could just hook up a simpler display :)
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<nephele>
I guess any gpu with that resolution would work aslong as it is supported, maybe a couple years old amd gpu?
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<zdykstra>
My rx580 kernel panics haiku, so might have to go back even further
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<nephele>
ticket? :)
* nephele
goes to sleep
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<OscarL>
my GT1030 works just fine, in 1080p, but of course, that's using the VESA driver :-P
<OscarL>
Sark: that compilation errror you were getting in pycryptodome... seems like __STDC_HOSTED__ is not defined (and thus it does'n "include <errno.h>", which includes <Errors.h>, that defines EINVAL).
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<OscarL>
Maybe some issue with the build system for pycryptodome not recognizing Haiku and thinking you're trying to build "freestanding" ?
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<OscarL>
Mmm, seems I'm reading that one wrong. it complains about line 42, but that's also guarded by "#if __STDC_HOSTED__"... so... that's defined then. Why it doesn't pickups the EINVAL definition from <Errors.h>? Weird.
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