<AlienSoldier>
accessays those are the same exact thing. Only difference is the cursor position because if i cross eye they cursor seem on a deeper plane being the only different thing it show 3dness.
<accessays>
AlienSoldier: they actually aren't. "Clean up" on the right is 1px lower than on the left
<accessays>
I remade the same element in Chrome (same size, font etc) and checked how it renderes vertically centered text
<accessays>
it was like on the left, i.e. 1px higher than current implementation in Haiku
<AlienSoldier>
he, i guess retina screen was all marketing then, i see not difference at all (i have a 1080 27 inch monitor)
<AlienSoldier>
perhaps when cross eying the brain round them at the same possition, at least my brain do.
<waddlesplash>
accessays: wouldn't have noticed without you mentioning but yeah left does look better.
<accessays>
waddlesplash: difference of 1px :) somehow still noticed it and felt something was off
<accessays>
this doesn't occur with defaults (Noto @ 12pt), only if you change font and/or size
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<pairisto[m]>
Hello I am confused about 2 things, 1. how do I do a pull request to update the code and 2. I tried to do a push request but it ended up becoming a little modified copy of https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/6081 with my code and not its own request so I was wondering how to make it its own push request
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 6e11ad4 - wayland_server: bump version
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<accessays>
so lets say I have an element with bounds where top == bottom, i.e. starts and ends on the same line. this element when rendered will take up 1px in height. but a BRect where top == bottom will report Height() as being 0. BRect.Height() is essentially always off by one
<waddlesplash>
augiedoggie: I likely missed editing a file for x64, whoops
<waddlesplash>
accessays: coordinates are always based on pixel centers not pixel count
<waddlesplash>
somewhere there's a visual explainer for that
<waddlesplash>
x512[m]: dunno, but, it makes sense to me...
<accessays>
waddlesplash: then it makes sense why Height() would return 0. but this is a discrepancy between how much is rendered (1px) and how much is reported in height (0px)
<accessays>
say if I'm rendering elements one after another vertically, and I change y-coord by the elements .Height() to render the next, they would overlap by 1px
<waddlesplash>
yes
<waddlesplash>
so add 1 to height
<waddlesplash>
this is commonly done in many places
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<accessays>
is this a good design? it relies on the programmer to remember the magic +1, and likely introduces lots of off-by-one errors wherever its forgotten
<zdykstra>
(for best results, view screenshot on a 4k+ screen)
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<waddlesplash>
deskbar spacing doesn't look right
<waddlesplash>
I thought I fixed that a few months back...
<zdykstra>
I played with spacing the other day and tightened it up
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<zdykstra>
Both the horizontal and vertical gaps felt big, but that's certainly in the land of personal preference
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<accessays>
waddlesplash: does it make sense to still stick to how BeOS did things? wouldn't it be better to change things wherever they should be changed? (not claiming this is one of such cases)
<waddlesplash>
accessays: it would be a massive incompatible change requiring us to rewrite a large portion of the code and also break all source and binary compatibility.
<waddlesplash>
also, it isn't actually a problem as much as you might expect
<waddlesplash>
and, to be honest, given the API's proclivity for subpixel-precise rendering, makes more sense than top-left coordinates
<waddlesplash>
zdykstra: ah
<accessays>
yeah, there may be good reasons for it being this way, even if it feels weird to me
<accessays>
I guess I'm stuck up on the fact that a lot of rendering seems off
<accessays>
i.e. these small off-by-one (or more) issues in many elements around the OS
<zdykstra>
waddlesplash: that screenshot is stock tracker though, if that wasn't clear
<waddlesplash>
hmm
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<waddlesplash>
accessays: if the problems only happen with non-default fonts/sizes then I'm not surprised
<waddlesplash>
also if you're running at larger-than-usual font sizes the off-by-ones may be missing computations from hidpi logic
<waddlesplash>
I introduced B_USE_BORDER_SPACING for this purpose but haven't actually made use of it around the tree yet
<accessays>
yep, I've mostly been using non-default font&size. some things are off even with defaults (e.g. CalendarView)
<accessays>
are there any APIs for centered rendering or something of the kind?
<accessays>
now it looks like it's done separately in everything, and slightly different as well
<nosycat>
Vision seems to ignore system font settings, and doesn't have any of its own either.
<waddlesplash>
nosycat: that should definitely be fixed
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<waddlesplash>
accessays: yeah, we should likely add some utility functions here, at least as an experiment
<nosycat>
Yeah, on a 4K screen it would be a show-stopper. :D
<waddlesplash>
we already have CenterIn, CenterOnScreen for BWindows
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<waddlesplash>
we should add something for BRects I suppose
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<accessays>
waddlesplash: on that topic, is there some standardisation over how things r rendered wrt border, padding, margin etc?
<waddlesplash>
yes
<waddlesplash>
padding, margin, etc. all comes out of BControlLook::ComputeSpacing()
<waddlesplash>
there's a new enum value to be passed to that function, B_USE_BORDER_SPACING, which is for borders
<waddlesplash>
however, this isn't actually used anywhere yet, I just added it
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<accessays>
thanks, I'll take a look at it
<accessays>
been working on fixing these weird rendering issues, but probably makes more sense to consider rewriting some of them completely
<accessays>
(or rather using the proper APIs rather than everything being done slighly differently)
<waddlesplash>
I've been wondering if we should try introducing a CSS-like metrics system
<waddlesplash>
as in, instead of having to manually write code doing ComputeSpacing() + xyz * abc, etc. you specify something like "border-width: ...rem"
<waddlesplash>
that's probably not a feasible overhaul though
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<accessays>
had same idea while looking at the code
<accessays>
why do you deem it not feasiable?
<Habbie>
what's the purpose of _sources_ in the install image?
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<waddlesplash>
Habbie: source packages for GPL compliance
<Habbie>
right - i'm wondering if those are worth 400MB of installation image space when a notice would legally do (as far as i know)
<waddlesplash>
it doesn't, exactly
<waddlesplash>
the short version is that the GPL says, basically, that you have to provide sources the same way as you provide binaries
<waddlesplash>
so, if we want to sell copies of install media, we need to include the sources
<waddlesplash>
nightly builds don't include the source packages since they're download only
<waddlesplash>
accessays: probably because it'd require some pretty invasive changes. idk, maybe it is doable, but once I realized how much work it'd be, I shelved the idea
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, ah, that's a nuance I didn't think about, selling media
<Habbie>
thanks
<waddlesplash>
np
<accessays>
waddlesplash: things could be slowly migrated one-by-one, it can start off as being primarily for new developments
<accessays>
maybe CSS-like is overkill, but something simple and generic would be nice to not drown in boilerplate
<waddlesplash>
yes
<waddlesplash>
I mean changing internals to accomodate this would be difficult, mostly
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<accessays>
perhaps it could be a compilation step? i.e. CSS-like definitions are converted into C++ code at compile time
<accessays>
more or less
<waddlesplash>
oh, I mean even just having unit computations would require too many changes
<waddlesplash>
anything that sophisticated is a non-starter
<accessays>
since it would mostly be used for static things, like ratios between sizes, with main one being font size or whatever
<accessays>
ah damn
<accessays>
actually, I don't fully get it. say I'm writing an app for Haiku, and I want to have a custom UI element. I could define it's properties with CSS and then use a tool to convert it into some C++ code
<accessays>
part of running `make` or whatever
<accessays>
or do you mean it would be difficult to transition built-in UI elements to such a system?
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<waddlesplash>
I mean that adding the framework to support this, forget transitioning stuff to it, is probably too difficult
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<waddlesplash>
I mean, Qt doesn't even have this. They have a system by which you can apply arbitrary CSS to a control, yeah, but it integrates poorly with all their other drawing methods, and isn't frequently used except when you have a totally custom style applied
<zdykstra>
does Repositories have this visual glitch (lower left) for people on normalres screens? http://0x0.st/HzVF.png
<waddlesplash>
zdykstra: don't think so, looks like a hard-coded size issue
<accessays>
zdykstra: I tried with default fonts and it looks similar. the offset from the left stays, but there's no yellow color
<zdykstra>
trying to figure out what that area is even meant to show/do
<zdykstra>
yellow was just it picking up a tab I had placed there, to highlight the exact un-rendered area
<accessays>
aha
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<accessays>
looks fine at defaults as said, but does glitch out at higher font sizes
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<accessays>
waddlesplash: I'm a bit confused by what the purpose of B_USE_BORDER_SPACING is? the others (DEFAULT, SMALL) make sense I guess, but BORDER I don't get
<accessays>
it's limited to 1.0?
<accessays>
i.e. borders cannot be thicker than 1px?
<waddlesplash>
it must be at least 1, and then after that it's an integer multiple of 1
<Habbie>
haiku 1r/beta4 install image, after highlighting 7 icons, either disables the display or puts me in debugger>. enabling logging to screen (from the boot menu) without paging goes too fast (but i might try making a video). with paging, i cannot continue after the first page.
<accessays>
nvm im blind
<accessays>
max not min
<Habbie>
I'm not familiar with the haiku debugger; can i get the full boot log from it?
<waddlesplash>
Habbie: debugger> is app_server crash, you mean that and not KDL (kernel panic)?
<waddlesplash>
if it's really app_server crash, try "use failsafe video mode"
<Habbie>
it indeed mentions app_server, i have a photo
<Habbie>
ok, that was next-ish on my list, thanks
<accessays>
waddlesplash: is the idea to use BControlLook::ComposeSpacing(B_USE_BORDER_SPACING) to figure out the border thickness for an element?
<Habbie>
"use fail-safe graphics driver"
<accessays>
which then is based on font size & hardcoded sizing metrics
<waddlesplash>
accessays: yes
<waddlesplash>
almost everything uses 1-2px hard coded borders right no
<waddlesplash>
that should be changed to use this instead
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, desktop!
<waddlesplash>
:)
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<Habbie>
anything i can investigate, debug, report about this?
<waddlesplash>
do you have an amd/radeon graphics card
<Habbie>
i do!
<Habbie>
i was waiting for a photo upload that mentions that and a few other things
<waddlesplash>
then this is already a known issue. we should probably disable the radeon_hd driver on more hardware
<bradsco>
Hey all, trying to learn my way back into this realm. Working on building something in a native BeOS R5 environment and I’m looking for original OpenAL sources if they existed from that time. I know Haiku has a build, but I’m trying for period correct. If not, I was thinking the Haiku port of OpenAL-soft would map similarly. Any thoughts?
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<waddlesplash>
yes, the Haiku port should map similarly, unless it uses some new APIs we introduced
<waddlesplash>
however I doubt it does
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<bradsco>
is there a way to pull the source for it from a non-native environment?
<bradsco>
By the way waddlesplash, I’ve been reading the monthly reports for a long time, so thank you for everything you’re doing and taking the time to write it all out
<Habbie>
so, the usb image gave me a desktop, not a "install haiku" / "try haiku" choice, is this normal for this release?
<waddlesplash>
bradsco: source for what? openal-soft?
<waddlesplash>
if we have it in HaikuPorts you can grab it from there
<waddlesplash>
pretty much any source code of interest these days will be in git
<bradsco>
waddlesplash: yes, if I was going to try to build it natively on R5
<waddlesplash>
if you have an ancient BeOS .pkg file containing source code, then yes you need a Haiku or Be install to extract this
<waddlesplash>
well if you set up R5 in a VM with network access it should work out
<waddlesplash>
bradsco: and until last year or so, PulkoMandy wrote most of the reports, but either way, thanks for reading and supporting Haiku! :)
<PulkoMandy>
Habbie: if you already booted it once, yes, it's normal. You get only one chance to run the Installer this way (but then it's available in the Applications menu)
<Habbie>
oh right
<Habbie>
the usb stick is not readonly
<Habbie>
and my previous boots probably flipped that boolean while crashing / failing to display anything
<bradsco>
waddlesplash: You’re welcome of course. Not to toot my own horn, but it goes way back. I got my install for the BeOS OpenGL beta from Jason Sams, so it all means a great deal.
<HaikuUser>
do i need to use a \ in order to break a long line within a B_TRANSLATE?
<waddlesplash>
B_TRANSLATE is just a macro
<waddlesplash>
normal C string rules apply
<Habbie>
PulkoMandy, ah, and that includes the panel that asks for language/keymap (which i rarely need, but still)
<Habbie>
(i'm taking notes to improve the installation guide)
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<PulkoMandy>
If you want to change language and keymap later, you have to use the preference panels which offer some more options
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<Habbie>
pity debian's os-prober does not detect Haiku
<Habbie>
(after initial install, don't know about after EFI setup)
<zdykstra>
refind + efi works like a charm
<Habbie>
yes, after struggling with efi in many ways over the last two months (not involving Haiku), I read Haiku docs this week and they mentioned refind
<Habbie>
so i might try it soon
<Habbie>
aw, grub is unhappy
<zdykstra>
assuming you're on semi-modern hardware, EFI generally "just works"
<Habbie>
this box is 10 years old and definitely has some EFI quirks
<zdykstra>
old UEFI implementations (Dell servers, in particular) are less fun
<Habbie>
but windows and debian generally dualboot fine
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<Habbie>
looks like an efi grub does not like to chainload my not-yet-efi haiku
<Habbie>
(or i have a different problem)
<zdykstra>
I doubt you can go from EFI to non-EFI
<Habbie>
i am indeed wondering if that is possible at all
<Habbie>
they're entirely different execution environments
<zdykstra>
but I avoid GRUB like the plague, so I don't know how it handles things like that these days
<Habbie>
ack - i'd like to get this working and -then- maybe try refind
<Habbie>
about that picture, the feather looks a bit truncated at the bottom, but i see this on all screenshots. is it intentional?
<zdykstra>
seems to be
<zdykstra>
or rather, it must be intentional since it's so obvious to anybody looking at it :P
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<Habbie>
ack :)
<waddlesplash>
Habbie: zdykstra: I don't know about that to be honest, I've never tried to figure out about the leaf placement, it may be wrong for all I know :-p
<waddlesplash>
maybe checking really old screenshots from before it got vectorized may give a clue
<waddlesplash>
zdykstra: and the double-blue icon is VMware integration
<zdykstra>
ahh
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, any idea which release got the vectorisation?
<zdykstra>
I think I'm going to bite off something smaller than trying to fix the status area in the repositories preference panel, heh
<Habbie>
:)
<zdykstra>
the layout library is a bit opaque to me right now
<Habbie>
ack
<waddlesplash>
there was 6 years between a4 and b1, tons changed
<Habbie>
oh wow yes
<Habbie>
i'm just going to ignore the feather for a while :)
<waddlesplash>
zdykstra: status area fix is probably not that much work tbh
<waddlesplash>
StyledEdit and Tracker already got similar fixes to their status areas
<zdykstra>
let me check git history on that then
<zdykstra>
danke
<waddlesplash>
honestly Haiku's layout library is way more intuitive than Qt's
<waddlesplash>
it's missing one or two features I really want, but, otherwise it's just better
<zdykstra>
waddlesplash: should I be opening issues for the little fixes I'm submitting, or are they small enough that they speak for themselves?
<waddlesplash>
I fix little stuff all the time without opening tickets
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<zdykstra>
well yes, but you're not a new contributor - I am :)
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<waddlesplash>
zdykstra: in the olden days we opened new tickets for patches only because we didn't have gerrit
<waddlesplash>
these days we don't bother
<zdykstra>
the one that's driving me the most nuts is opening a mail folder via the deskbar replicant and having to move/resize the window again
<zdykstra>
since it's saved on subsequent openings until Tracker is restarted, I'm hopeful that it's not to hard to track down where the plumbing has gone awry
<bitigchi[m]1>
Since my Gerrit account is not able to log in, is it okay to open a ticket and attach patches there?
<bitigchi[m]1>
I will wait 2-3 days more in any case, hopefully it will be fixed
<zdykstra>
waddlesplash: 100 characters is a hard limit on width, correct?
<waddlesplash>
yes
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<Habbie>
is there an easy way to get a copy of haiku_loader.efi without touching an existing Haiku install?
<Habbie>
secondary question, is the one on the install image the right one?
<zdykstra>
it's part of the release ISO and nightly anyboot images
<Habbie>
that i saw
<Habbie>
but not published directly?
<zdykstra>
as a bare file, I'm not sure
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
but the one on the installer image is the right one?
<zdykstra>
yeah - it's what I've been using for a month or two now
<Habbie>
cool
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<Habbie>
oh wow, when the USB is still inserted, it becomes hd0 in grub :D
<Habbie>
and there is my Haiku desktop :)
<Habbie>
network settings say ssh is on, but port 22 times out, is there a firewall?
<zdykstra>
no
<Habbie>
enabling FTP does open port 21
<zdykstra>
could be related to generating host ssh keys on first boot
<Habbie>
ah
<zdykstra>
try disabling it and re-enabling sshd
<Habbie>
ok
<zdykstra>
I'm just throwing out WAGs though, so don't take me as an authority :)
<Habbie>
WAG?
<Habbie>
ok telnet is broken too :D
<Habbie>
but ftp works!
<zdykstra>
SSH, Telnet and FTP all work here
<Habbie>
good to know
<Habbie>
so it's something minor
<zdykstra>
wonder what's different between our setups
<Habbie>
same - this is a very fresh install,
<Habbie>
just hours old
<zdykstra>
net_server seems to be in charge of launching sshd
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<waddlesplash>
check network preferences
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<Habbie>
good to know, i did indeed spot nothing ssh/ftp related in ps
<waddlesplash>
and then syslog, see about sshd error messages
<Habbie>
ok, first things first, i enabled `fail_safe_video_mode true` in `/boot/home/config/settings/kernel/drivers` and now I don't have to hit space every boot
<Habbie>
OscarL, ugh, i had that page open but stopped reading after setting the password
<Habbie>
how do you folks edit files? browse to them via the disk thing on the desktop? or remember that nano is installed? :)
<zdykstra>
Vim
<Habbie>
ok yes, but that's not in the default install :)
<Habbie>
and 'vi' also did nothing, so i tried a few until i hit 'nano'
<OscarL>
"pkgman install pe" or "pkgman install koder"
<Habbie>
ah, those look neat
<Habbie>
OscarL, turns out that settings thing wasn't it, no clue yet what it -is-, but i'll find out later
<Habbie>
i'm ending my day with a working haiku boot, so that's nice
<Habbie>
.. telnet works now, i don't know what changed that
<Habbie>
it said "Error: Failed to open tty: Operation not allowed" before